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Everyone in their prime (legends). The ultimate battle between the dark side and the light, who wins?

Too close to call imho.

Nah, if this is Valkorion, then Yoda is kinda the weak link here imo.

And Luke the strong link.

You have him above both Sidious and Valkorion? Even if he is, I don't see how his superiority is anything greater than a slight margin given the hype and planet killer feats these guys have. Yoda on the other hand would most likely fail to do great against either of the Emperors in a force fight.

Non jobbing Luke has a more than slight superiority over Sidious and Valkorion, being honest. Luke is equal or superior to them in every area that they can actually be compared, (raw power, TK, illusions, speed, physicality, etc). I mean, this dude pinned Caedus to a chair without effort, stonewalled UnuThul's telekinesis, defeated DE Sidious in a duel long before his prime, and has probably the most ridiculous learning curve in the mythos.

That said, yeah Yoda wouldn't be stalemating them in a force fight by any means. Hence why I said I'm uncertain.

Originally posted by Sinious
Nah, if this is Valkorion, then Yoda is kinda the weak link here imo.

Prime Yoda tho

Luke at the peak of his power is above either. I could see him carrying.

Luke solos. uhuh

Luke beats Sidious and prime! Yoda beats Vitiate (who is =/= Valkorion lol).

Vitiate and Valkorion are the same person, and there's nothing to suggest he grew in power from SWTOR to KotFE. He's been Valkorion for hundreds of years prior to the game's start.

He explicitly forsakes the name Vitiate lol, it's like trying to use Vader feats for an Anakin thread.

Valkorion is "Vitiate" after his absorbs the energies of Ziost, so he's probably more powerful.

In either case, I would speculate that prime! Yoda could have defeated Sidious, so he can definitely beat Vitiate.

Team 2

Valkorion is the MVP here because of his ability to manifest as a disembodied being after loosing a physical vessel and still be able to affect the external environment in profound ways.

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Non jobbing Luke has a more than slight superiority over Sidious and Valkorion, being honest. Luke is equal or superior to them in every area that they can actually be compared, (raw power, TK, illusions, speed, physicality, etc).
Based on?

Luke Skywalker have nothing on Valkorion's Ziost based showings.

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
I mean, this dude pinned Caedus to a chair without effort,
So?

Darth Caedus doesn't have showings even on par with Darth Vader.

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
stonewalled UnuThul's telekinesis,
What are UnuThul's feats in general?

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
defeated DE Sidious in a duel long before his prime, and has probably the most ridiculous learning curve in the mythos.
More like out-dueled him. Palpatine's advantage was in the domain of Force powers that he didn't put to good use against Luke Skywalker for some reason.

Even Exar Kun was capable of defeating DE/Early NJO Luke Skywalker.

Was gonna ask about UnuThul myself, and not sure if Caedus was trying to resist Luke's TK with the force. IIRC, he was trying really hard to avoid pissing off Luke.

Caedus mused that he couldn't break free if he tried to.

Originally posted by The Ellimist
He explicitly forsakes the name Vitiate lol, it's like trying to use Vader feats for an Anakin thread.

Valkorion is "Vitiate" after his absorbs the energies of Ziost, so he's probably more powerful.

In either case, I would speculate that prime! Yoda could have defeated Sidious, so he can definitely beat Vitiate.

Vitiate was Valkorion while he was still using the former name. He didn't just become Valkorion or anything. I don't think we've ever seen him as just Vitiate.

And Vitiate did that to Ziost to recover his depleted energy.

ABC logic lololol.

^ ok, thanks for admitting that Ziost didn't make Vitiate any stromger, and that KotfE Valkorion (because we were talking about that one, duh) is still bound by the Sidious ceiling.

Originally posted by The Ellimist
^ ok, thanks for admitting that Ziost didn't make Vitiate any stromger, and that KotfE Valkorion (because we were talking about that one, duh) is still bound by the Sidious ceiling.
Valkorion > Palpatine by virtue of feats and capabilities.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Valkorion > Palpatine by virtue of feats and capabilities. Rivi-Anu (random CW padawan) > every Jedi during the CW barring capital ship benchlifting feat?

That's what your logic is doing for you right now.

And if you argue Yoda/Windu etc > her via accolades, despite inferior feats, then the same has to apply for Sidious being > Valkorion. (though I'm sure someone else can argue for Sidious having better feats regardless).

Yeah, and Sidious overpowering Yoda's Absorption is better than any of Valkorion's Lightning feats as well. Yoda >>> Arcann, Marr, etc. Now add on decades of power growth. In his prime, Sidious > Valkorion, by both feats and accolades.

Lol, Sidious's lightning can light up planetary surfaces; his storms can literally rip them off. Lmao @ Valkorion being anything to Wankatine.

Originally posted by ILS
Rivi-Anu (random CW padawan) > every Jedi during the CW barring capital ship benchlifting feat?
Bench-lifting? She slowed down the descend of the Starship for a period of time (which wasn't much) before getting overwhelmed.

You talk about bench-lifting? Darth Nihilus actually lifted Ravager from Malachor V and prevented its disintegration in space.

Try something better.

Originally posted by ILS
That's what your logic is doing for you right now.

And if you argue Yoda/Windu etc > her via accolades, despite inferior feats, then the same has to apply for Sidious being > Valkorion.


My logic is sound.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Bench-lifting? She slowed down the descend of the Starship for a period of time (which wasn't much) before getting overwhelmed.

Try something better.

You talk about bench-lifting? Darth Nihilus actually lifted Ravager from Malachor V and then kept it safe from disintegration afterwards.It's better than anything Yoda has done with TK, in terms of pure individual feats. So according to you she's better than Yoda, right?

And Vitiate has done something better than Nihilus' TK feat? Let's see it.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
My logic is sound. AYYY LMAO

Originally posted by The Ellimist
Lol, Sidious's lightning can light up planetary surfaces
Provide evidence.

Originally posted by The Ellimist
his storms can literally rip them off.
Provide evidence.

Originally posted by The Ellimist
Lmao @ Valkorion being anything to Wankatine.
Valkorion >

Originally posted by ILS
It's better than anything Yoda has done with TK, in terms of pure individual feats. So according to you she's better than Yoda, right?
Yoda's supremacy is holistic, not necessarily in the domain of Telekinesis. Yoda is relatively much more learned in the ways of the Force.

Yoda was able to lift 5 Muntuur stones (after he crossed 700 years in age). Jedi Master Fae Coven managed to lift 6 but in meditative state. Jedi Master Ferleen Snee is rumored to have lifted all of them. Therefore, it is not necessary for Yoda to be unparalleled in the domain of Telekinesis to be more powerful then them.

The term 'more powerful' doesn't just implies that you can lift more. It has a much deeper meaning.

Originally posted by ILS
And Vitiate has done something better than Nihilus' TK feat? Let's see it.
Vitiate's inferior (i.e. Darth Jadus) was also able to affect a Harrower-class starship. I believe that Vitiate could replicate it.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Yoda's supremacy is holistic, not necessarily in the domain of Telekinesis.





Legend, this is what we call a double standard.

^^^

Recheck my response.

Still a double standard. You're willing to accept that Vitiate > Jadus and Nihilus in TK because he's canonically more powerful than them, yet you're not willing to accept Yoda > Rivi-Anu and others in TK despite him also being canonically more powerful than them.

By the way, Jadus' feat pales in comparison to Nihilus' (which was highly circumstantial). Your examples aren't valid.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Yoda's supremacy is holistic, not necessarily in the domain of Telekinesis. Yoda is relatively much more learned in the ways of the Force.

Vitiate's inferior (i.e. Darth Jadus) was also able to affect a Harrower-class starship. I believe that Vitiate could replicate it. Do you understand how this could create an issue with your argument?

Yoda isn't necessarily better than random CW padawan with TK, via feats.

Vitiate is necessarily better than Jadus in all areas, via accolades, despite inferior TK showings.

Surely you apply the same standard to both? Either Jadus > Vitiate in TK, via feats (and the same with Yoda and Rivi), or Jadus/Rivi are inferior to Vitiate/Yoda because of accolades.

You're tripping yourself up all over the place just to avoid the simple fact that Sidious > Valkoriate via accolades.


I'm thinking Occam's Razor is more viable than random CW padawan being better than Yoda in one area (and it's a very basic area) of the Force, cus feats.

Originally posted by SunRazer
Still a double standard. You're willing to accept that Vitiate > Jadus and Nihilus in TK because he's canonically more powerful than them, yet you're not willing to accept Yoda > Rivi-Anu and others in TK despite him also being canonically more powerful than them.
Even if give your argument the benefit of doubt, Yoda matches Starkiller at best in this regard.

You avoided addressing the Muntuur stones part though. So you are not a fair judge either.

Originally posted by SunRazer
By the way, Jadus' feat pales in comparison to Nihilus' (which was highly circumstantial). Your examples aren't valid.
Darth Jadus's showings are not circumstantial.

Google the weight of these muntuur stones Legend.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Even if give your argument the benefit of doubt, Yoda matches Starkiller at best in this regard.

What?



I was only pointing out your double standard. And Ferleen Snee's seven-stone lifting feat is an unverified legend. Yoda's pretty much stated to have been able to lift more than five before 700, which means he at least matched Fae Coven's six at some point.



Nihilus' are.

Originally posted by ILS
Do you understand how this could create an issue with your argument?

Yoda isn't necessarily better than random CW padawan with TK, via feats.
Rivi-Anu is not a random by virtue of feats and having a name.

We cannot assume that every padawan was her equal in raw power.

Originally posted by ILS
Surely you apply the same standard to both? Either Jadus > Vitiate in TK, via feats (and the same with Yoda and Rivi), or Jadus/Rivi are inferior to Vitiate/Yoda because of accolades.
Let's give Yoda the benefit of doubt here! He is still not passing Starkiller.

Originally posted by ILS
You're tripping yourself up all over the place just to avoid the simple fact that Sidious > Valkoriate via accolades.


No, this superiority have never been reaffirmed in the latest sources. Moreover, Palpatine's wanking is largely in-universe in nature.

Originally posted by SunRazer
What?
Indeed

Originally posted by SunRazer
I was only pointing out your double standard. And Ferleen Snee's seven-stone lifting feat is an unverified legend. Yoda's pretty much stated to have been able to lift more than five before 700, which means he at least matched Fae Coven's six at some point.
Yoda said that he could lift 5 (after) crossing 700 years of age. Whether he could lift more at some point is left to our imagination. But assuming that Yoda surpassed all Jedi in strength at 900 years mark, this could be considered.

Originally posted by SunRazer
Nihilus' are.
Based on?

Team 1.

Originally posted by The Ellimist
Google the weight of these muntuur stones Legend.

They each weigh 5 metric tons, according to TCE

Even if you go as far as powerscaling Vitiate > Jadus, Yoda tk'd two separatist landing barrages into each other and those things are massive.

Originally posted by The Ellimist
He explicitly forsakes the name Vitiate lol, it's like trying to use Vader feats for an Anakin thread.

No it really isn't. Changing your name isn't comparable to being cut into four pieces, lit on fire, and turned into a cyborg. Either way, he became Valkorion centuries ago, and the only people that call him Vitiate are the Republic and the Empire. He never once calls himself that.

Also wrong. He was weakened and needed to consume Ziost to "revitalize" himself. Nothing suggests he became more powerful.

Except RotS Sidious doesn't exactly "definitely beat" Vitiate himself, so that logic kind of falls through.

Well the Emperor is more powerful than Vitiate ca. ROTS. I guess if one could make the argument that Vitiate is the more skilled or competent combatant...?

Eh? Valkorion explicitly states that Ziost transformed him...

No, he said they "opened his eyes to the truth." It's the same metaphorical bullshit KotFE is full of. uhuh

It says he "moved beyond death's reach", it says that he no longer needs hands, voices etc. this all being the result of simply absorbing power. How is there not a correlation here.

Because he says, word for word: "They died opening my eyes to the truth: I am beyond death."

He does not say he moved beyond death. That he already was, not that he ever needed hands and the like before being the immortal god of Zakuul. KotFE doesn't, and never has, made sense.

Originally posted by AncientPower
Even if you go as far as powerscaling Vitiate > Jadus, Yoda tk'd two separatist landing barrages into each other and those things are massive.
They are C-9979 Transport ships.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
Well the Emperor is more powerful than Vitiate ca. ROTS. I guess if one could make the argument that Vitiate is the more skilled or competent combatant...?
No, he isn't.