Brexit, should Britain leave the EU?

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It's xyz!
I've always been on the fence, but since the refugee crisis and the fact that we have no say on their laws means we should leave, imo.

Anyone who sacrifices Liberty for security, deserves neither.
- Benjamin Franklin

Time-Immemorial
Yea they should leave, **** globalism.

Bardock42
I think they shouldn't leave for two reasons, one that's not really my problem and one I care about:

1) It will take a significant toll on their economy, losing thousands of dollars per household for years to come.

2) it will weaken the work done towards peace, freedom and unity that the EU has achieved over the last decades (perhaps not significantly, we'll see).

It's xyz!
Originally posted by Bardock42
I think they shouldn't leave for two reasons, one that's not really my problem and one I care about:

1) It will take a significant toll on Germany's economy, losing thousands of Greek debt per household for years to come.

2) it will weaken the work done towards control, beuraucracy and open immigration that the EU has achieved over the last decades (perhaps not significantly, we'll see). FTFY.

Bardock42
I think Germany will be alright by the banking sector that will leave London to be stationed within the EU alone...

It's xyz!
Originally posted by Bardock42
I think Germany will be alright by the banking sector that will leave London to be stationed within the EU alone... Youll only get the shit ones, hence, a toll on your economy.

jaden101
I've still not made up my mind. Not least because voting either way means you're siding with either Boris Johnson or David Cameron. Both of whom have changed their opinion on the issue in the last year. Boris has done it purely as a calculated risk that if the leave side win he will be front runner for Prime minister and Cameron's position is just laughable. He said he'd support leaving if the negotiations for change with the EU didn't win him the right concessions for the UK. He didn't win them and is in favour of remaining in the EU. He's also now saying that leaving the EU would result in war despite being in favour of leaving under certain circumstances and also despite the fact that the risk of the UK leaving the EU and thus the supposed risk of war IS HIS FAULT...because he's the one who called the referendum in the first place.

Anyway. It ties in with Scottish independence as Scotland will likely vote to stay but may be taken out of the EU by the English vote.

It's xyz!
Cameron has ballsed up.

The EU is non negotiable and there is a terrible sense of mass immigration in Britain and Europe. I notice that only youths and immigrants want to remain, the BBC is focusing on those people to interview.

There is a silent majority to leave thanks to Nigel.

But what really makes me want to leave is how undemocratic and backwards ass it is. It is pure Eurocrats. They don't listen to common sense.

This is from 2013. Nigel was right.

http://youtu.be/73eO0_zUMxw

Omega Vision
No.

It's xyz!
Originally posted by Omega Vision
No. do you like the way things are going with the eu?

Stigma
TBH I'm not sure what is the right move for Britain to do, as Brexit is a multi-dimensional issue, but I have a feeling they are going to leave.

Originally posted by It's xyz!
Cameron has ballsed up.

The EU is non negotiable and there is a terrible sense of mass immigration in Britain and Europe. I notice that only youths and immigrants want to remain, the BBC is focusing on those people to interview.

There is a silent majority to leave thanks to Nigel.

But what really makes me want to leave is how undemocratic and backwards ass it is. It is pure Eurocrats. They don't listen to common sense.

This is from 2013. Nigel was right.

http://youtu.be/73eO0_zUMxw
Farage is right on many issues. thumb up

There is a great clip somewhere on youtube of him and prof. Legutko from Poland absolutely destroying Merkel and Hollande in the EU Parliament.

It's xyz!
http://youtu.be/fFV70Xp-Xsg is this what you mean?

He's right about France, he's right about Germany and he's right about the Eu.

Giving them more power will not change them. Doing the same will not change things.

This is our chance to leave. Don't **** it up!

It's xyz!
http://youtu.be/abEa3-rx6MQ

AlmightyKfish
I'm definitely voting to stay. The benefits of the EU really outweigh the problems of it and the fact is, many of the complaints have been massively overstated and hyped up with fearful rhetoric.


Plus you know, leaving the EU and as such the free movement/employment will be far more detrimental to us than any potential fears about immigration. There's some crazy percentage like 25% of all NHS workers are from outside Britain or some such, and putting more potential roadblocks that may end up forcing people to leave the country just doesn't seem like a good plan.

Also, Nigel Farage and his ilk are moronic fear mongers. The man is a joke, who even other members of the Leave campaign don't want to be associated with because of how toxic he is in most peoples eyes.

It's xyz!
Originally posted by AlmightyKfish
I'm definitely voting to stay. The benefits of the EU really outweigh the problems of it and the fact is, many of the complaints have been massively overstated and hyped up with fearful rhetoric.


Plus you know, leaving the EU and as such the free movement/employment will be far more detrimental to us than any potential fears about immigration. There's some crazy percentage like 25% of all NHS workers are from outside Britain or some such, and putting more potential roadblocks that may end up forcing people to leave the country just doesn't seem like a good plan.

Also, Nigel Farage and his ilk are moronic fear mongers. The man is a joke, who even other members of the Leave campaign don't want to be associated with because of how toxic he is in most peoples eyes. What benefits are you talking about? Which complaints?

I think free movement has saturated the job market and we should remove those workers. I spoke to a couple of Romanians after doing a shift a while back, they've been here two years and can only get agency work where speaking English isnt a complete necessity. 25% of nhs workers from outside of Britain is a crazy percentage. It's our NHS ffs. I want them to leave the country because it makes patients uncomfortable, particularly mental health patients.

You just said leaving the Eu will be detrimental to us and you're claiming Nigel as fear mongering? Who are these members you speak of?

jaden101
Originally posted by It's xyz!
25% of nhs workers from outside of Britain is a crazy percentage. It's our NHS ffs. I want them to leave the country because it makes patients uncomfortable, particularly mental health patients.


It'd be much better if they just died because of lack of staff wouldn't it?

Omega Vision
Originally posted by It's xyz!
do you like the way things are going with the eu?
I think it's made Europe stronger as a whole, and the UK will be seeing serious economic decline if they leave.

It's xyz!
I am against people dying.Originally posted by jaden101
It'd be much better if they just died because of lack of staff wouldn't it?

Originally posted by Omega Vision
I think it's made Europe stronger as a whole, and the UK will be seeing serious economic decline if they leave. its made Europe stronger at our expense. We will see economic change, but not necessarily decline.

Canada, Australia, New Zealand and The United States are stronger than most of Europe. We are not cutting ties with European economies, we are cutting ties with beureacratic regulations and will instead negotiate as a foreign economy. This strengthens our position.

It's no surprise that Norway, Switzerland, Monaco, Iceland and Liechtenstein are better off than France, Sweden, Spain, Italy and Ireland.

In fact, most countries decline after joining Europe. This is because Germany sucks up other countries around it and encourages France and Britain to do the same. France complies, Britian says no, mostly.

We cannot allow this anymore.

Omega Vision
Originally posted by It's xyz!
I am against people dying.

its made Europe stronger at our expense. We will see economic change, but not necessarily decline.

Canada, Australia, New Zealand and The United States are stronger than most of Europe. We are not cutting ties with European economies, we are cutting ties with beureacratic regulations and will instead negotiate as a foreign economy. This strengthens our position.

It's no surprise that Norway, Switzerland, Monaco, Iceland and Liechtenstein are better off than France, Sweden, Spain, Italy and Ireland.

In fact, most countries decline after joining Europe. This is because Germany sucks up other countries around it and encourages France and Britain to do the same. France complies, Britian says no, mostly.

We cannot allow this anymore.
The United States is a much larger country than any European country, and Canada's economy benefits from a free-trade agreement with the USA as well as vice versa. Australia is in the middle of a resource boom which may not ultimately be sustainable. Idk anything about New Zealand tbh.

Those countries you mentioned were already richer than the EU countries you list BEFORE those countries joined the EU, so that's not a good comparison.

It's xyz!
Originally posted by Omega Vision
The United States is a much larger country than any European country, and Canada's economy benefits from a free-trade agreement with the USA as well as vice versa. Australia is in the middle of a resource boom which may not ultimately be sustainable. Idk anything about New Zealand tbh.

Those countries you mentioned were already richer than the EU countries you list BEFORE those countries joined the EU, so that's not a good comparison. Usa and Canada are better markets than the euro and we are culturally similar to them over Europe. Australia's boom may be sustainable and New Zealand is doing rather well as far as small countries go. Plenty of resources and economic opportunity.

It is actually. The richer countries did not join the EU. They've been asked and declined. I would consider us a rich country. Not because we are in the EU, but a long history of empire and Anglosphere has made us so. We do not need to send our money to unelected politicians in Brussels who write laws we have to follow. It's not even good business to do so.

Norway, rich, wanted to maintain its rich economic shares for itself and has done so. Sweden, moderately poorer, joined the EU and had to follow EU laws when maintaining its shares and policies. Is culturally weaker and economically weaker. Neither country uses the Euro.

Switzerland, rich, wanted to maintain its rich economic shares for itself and has done so. Italy, moderately poorer, joined the EU and had to follow EU laws when maintaining its shares and policies. Is culturally weaker and economically weaker. Both of these countries use the Euro.

Why do rich countries not join? Why do the countries that do join, decline culturally and/or economically compared to their neighbours?

Is this due to the EU, or is it purely a coincidence?

It's xyz!
If anyone watched question time and this week today, I have this to say.

Paul Mason, Jew, claims b lack Liverpudlians are descended from slave trade.
Promoting white guilt.

No mention of UKIP being racist, just scare mongering people into voting stay to avoid looking racist

Claiming immigrants contribute when really, they don't.

This week shills icke on to make people who vote out look like crazy stupid conspiracy theorists.

"Would you define yourself as a conspiracy theorist?"
TV literally brands him as a conspiracy theoretician before he answers.

Mentions that 911 was known to have happened and orchestrated by world governments to get us into middle eastern wars and that the royal family are descended from a lizard bloodline.

Sadly, did not mention Jews. Icke likes kikes.

That's all folks. Vote leave!

It's xyz!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9UCm6LNj7P0

jaden101
Originally posted by It's xyz!
9UCm6LNj7P0

Not really substance in that to make people decide.

It's xyz!
It was made to trigger a response.

I have done that.

Now watch it 5 more times.

AlmightyKfish
I'll mention this here because it's related and has been in the news recently, but basically no matter what the outcome of this is it's going to be interesting to see what happens to the conservatives after this happens.

I mean you've had Tory MP's recently saying we'll need a new general election even if Cameron succeeds with remain, you've got big divisions within the upper leadership of the party.

I mean at the very least there's going to have to be a fairly significant reshuffle for them to govern effectively, given how split things have become.

It's xyz!
What's going to happen with the conservatives? Boris becomes PM.

The divides are due to the establishment shilling the tories and most people don't want that. Boris will be PM.

The split is good. Boris has work to do, but he WILL unite the toros despite lies from Jews.

AlmightyKfish
Boris is also an establishment Tory though, albeit one who is now catering to alternate viewpoints in his power bid.

The man went from Eton to Oxford to government alongside Cameron, he's about as establishment as they come, but he's trying to create an image that hides that fact.

It's xyz!
I don't think he's hiding anything. I think he's just anti EU, which I agree with.

jaden101
Originally posted by It's xyz!
I don't think he's hiding anything. I think he's just anti EU, which I agree with.

Yet less than a year ago he was in favour of being in a reformed EU.

He's an opportunist. He knows if there's an out vote then Cameron, Osbourne etc will all be forced to resign and he'll be a shoe in for Prime minister. His stance is a means to an end that is all about Boris rather than Britain.

Time-Immemorial
Popped smoke in that other thread I seelaughing out loud

jaden101
Originally posted by Time-Immemorial
Popped smoke in that other thread I seelaughing out loud

What was it you said in the other thread about reporting people for going off topic?

Managing to prove yourself both a hypocrite and the cry-baby that reports people to mods out of butthurt that you denied you were. Hilarious 😂 😂

Time-Immemorial
Popped smoke in the other threadlaughing out loud

Where did I report you?laughing out loud

Proof?

jaden101
Originally posted by Time-Immemorial
Popped smoke in the other threadlaughing out loud

Where did I report you?laughing out loud

Proof?

Cry-baby hypocrite is crying. Must be lonely for me again. 😂 😂 😂

Time-Immemorial
Back your claim, where did I report you?

Speaking of the ultimate hypocrite. You obsessed freak.

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/search.php?action=showresults&q=userid%3A58485

jaden101
Originally posted by Time-Immemorial
Back your claim, where did I report you?

Speaking of the ultimate hypocrite. You obsessed freak.

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/search.php?action=showresults&q=userid%3A58485

You're the one that's keeps PMing me. You're the one trying to troll me in this thread. You are exceptionally creepy. Obsessed doesn't even begin to describe it.

Time-Immemorial
Still looking for proof on your claim that I reported you. You Pm'd me as many times. Quit lying.

Your own post history says you are the creepy guy.

95% of your posts are to me. So who is the creepy obsessed dude, you are just pissed that your own history betrays you


http://www.killermovies.com/forums/search.php?action=showresults&q=userid%3A58485

^undeniable

jaden101
Originally posted by Time-Immemorial
Still looking for proof on your claim that I reported you. You Pm'd me as many times. Quit lying.

Your own post history says you are the creepy guy.

95% of your posts are to me. So who is the creepy obsessed dude, you are just pissed that your own history betrays you


http://www.killermovies.com/forums/search.php?action=showresults&q=userid%3A58485

^undeniable

Half a dozen out of that 25 at most. That's 95% is it? No wonder they say Trump supporters are dumb.

You...PM'd....me. Not the other round. Why did you do it? Because you're an obsessed creep.

Why did you threaten to report people? Because it's what you do.

Time-Immemorial
I just counted over 30 times in PM and like 100 times of posting.

Your post history says your wrong, creep.

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/search.php?action=showresults&q=userid%3A58485

AlmightyKfish
Urgh no offense guys but can we not turn this thread into the clusterf**k that is all the other threads right now?

Not to backseat mod or anything but it's just a bit of a pain if we actually wanted to discuss stuff about this.


As for Boris, yeah, it pretty much reeks of opportunism. The fact he's flipped from one of Cameron's closest who agreed with him on a lot (including the EU) really just seems to confirm this is all a bit for leadership.

Which is pretty risky for him, as if we vote to Remain I imagine he's going to be pushed into a fairly minor position (I think I read somewhere an inside source had said maybe Transport Minister) for someone as notable as he is in the Conservatives.

Time-Immemorial
Jaden is just butthurt cause his post history betrays his narrative.

jaden101
Originally posted by Time-Immemorial
I just counted over 30 times in PM and like 100 times of posting.

Your post history says your wrong, creep.

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/search.php?action=showresults&q=userid%3A58485

You....PM'd....me

Why? Because you're an obsessed creep. So much so that here you are derailing a thread despite threatening to report people for doing the same and even despite derailing your own thread about Edward Snowden into yet another obsessed rant about Hillary Clinton within 2 posts.


laughing laughing laughing

Time-Immemorial
Still waiting on that proof I reported you, keep running from your claim.

Your post history says otherwise you overgrown man child.

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/...=userid%3A58485

I said no such thing in the snowden thread.

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/f11/t627211.html

jaden101
Your second post has nothing to do with the topic and betrays your bizarre infatuation with Hillary Clinton. Well done on managing to derail your own thread in record time.

Time-Immemorial
Making a comparison is not derailing my own thread, come back when you actually have something to say that makes sense.

Adam_PoE
Originally posted by jaden101
You....PM'd....me

Why? Because you're an obsessed creep. So much so that here you are derailing a thread despite threatening to report people for doing the same and even despite derailing your own thread about Edward Snowden into yet another obsessed rant about Hillary Clinton within 2 posts.


laughing laughing laughing

I had not posted in two weeks, and he private messaged me six times over five days to demand that I stop posting in the forum, citing an agreement he manufactured whole cloth in his mind that I would stop posting because . . . Hillary Clinton.

I did not respond, because I was collecting evidence. I forwarded his unsolicited private messages to moderators, allowing him enough rope with which to hang himself. He is one step away from being banned.

Time-Immemorial
You broke our agreement. We agree whoever was wrong about Hilary would leave the forum, you were wrong, so leave.

Collect this evidence.

http://www.politico.com/story/2016/06/hillary-clinton-emails-223762

It's xyz!
I don't care if he wants to be PM. I care that we won't get a reformed EU with unelected buerocrat jews running the ****er letting rapists inside. I care about that. Boris is on my side and I don't care if you think that's racist, it really isn't. Originally posted by jaden101
Yet less than a year ago he was in favour of being in a reformed EU.

He's an opportunist. He knows if there's an out vote then Cameron, Osbourne etc will all be forced to resign and he'll be a shoe in for Prime minister. His stance is a means to an end that is all about Boris rather than Britain.

It's xyz!
Were you wrong about Hilary? Did you leave if you said you were? Originally posted by Adam_PoE
I had not posted in two weeks, and he private messaged me six times over five days to demand that I stop posting in the forum, citing an agreement he manufactured whole cloth in his mind that I would stop posting because . . . Hillary Clinton.

I did not respond, because I was collecting evidence. I forwarded his unsolicited private messages to moderators, allowing him enough rope with which to hang himself. He is one step away from being banned.

Time-Immemorial
He said Hilary broke no laws and never did anything wrong with the emails. So I guess he has been spending the past weeks gathering "evidence on the internet" to prove the State Department is wrong nowlaughing out loud

It's xyz!
I don't know, we have to wait til she's in jail I guess. I still like Hilary.

Surtur
Originally posted by It's xyz!
I don't know, we have to wait til she's in jail I guess. I still like Hilary.

What do you like about her?

It's xyz!
She convinced Bill to run as president, stood up for healthcare (which I somewhat agree with) and worked so hard in the system against corps that I believe she is the best at dealing with them in relation to tax breaks. Now I don't necessarily agree with sending money to poor people, but Hilary just sounds very practical and centrist as far as democrats go. She's very similar to Bill in her campaign and she's more practical than Obama. She's just a mild improvement with nothing extreme. Definitely no sanders. Originally posted by Surtur
What do you like about her?

AlmightyKfish
Guys seriously.

This is kinda an interesting topic (at least for us who live here) so can we not go into this same forum personal attacks that will get this closed, or at least which have made every other thread completely pointless and unusable.

All this stuff about Hilary etc can go somewhere else.

It's xyz!
Sure.

It's xyz!
There is an eerie silence on the news. I think more and more people are wanting out. Merkel is trying to convince us to stay and Cameron seemed very weak on Tuesday.

http://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/675902/eu-referendum-brexit-bookies-slash-odds-brexit-leave-vote-bets

It was 5/1 when I checked and then pic related happen. FFS.

It's xyz!
http://boards.4chan.org/pol/thread/75905665/section-7-penal-sanctions-a-the-following-acts

It's xyz!

Stigma
A new argument surfaces in the debate on Brexit:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3625475/Nigel-Farage-says-security-Britain-risk-stay-EU-ISIS-promise-flood-Continent-jihadists.html

Nigel Farage says British women will be at risk of mass sex attacks by gangs of migrants if we vote to stay in the EU

He said people have seen that Mr Cameron has not followed through with his pledge to reduce migration and cut a new deal for the UK EU membership.

Mr Farage said: 'He is 'Dishonest Dave'. The honesty and straightforwardness of the Prime Minister are now being questioned.'

He added: 'David Cameron has basically said things to get votes. He won office in 2010 and 2015 by telling the British public things that he knew not to be true.'

The comments come as Farage warned Britain's national security was at risk if the UK remained in the EU because 'ISIS promise to flood the Continent with jihadists'.

He suggested that open borders have led to migration that has been 'bad for social cohesion' as he stated his case for Brexit at a rally in Bristol on Saturday.

SquallX
Originally posted by Stigma
A new argument surfaces in the debate on Brexit:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3625475/Nigel-Farage-says-security-Britain-risk-stay-EU-ISIS-promise-flood-Continent-jihadists.html

Nigel Farage says British women will be at risk of mass sex attacks by gangs of migrants if we vote to stay in the EU

He said people have seen that Mr Cameron has not followed through with his pledge to reduce migration and cut a new deal for the UK EU membership.

Mr Farage said: 'He is 'Dishonest Dave'. The honesty and straightforwardness of the Prime Minister are now being questioned.'

He added: 'David Cameron has basically said things to get votes. He won office in 2010 and 2015 by telling the British public things that he knew not to be true.'

The comments come as Farage warned Britain's national security was at risk if the UK remained in the EU because 'ISIS promise to flood the Continent with jihadists'.

He suggested that open borders have led to migration that has been 'bad for social cohesion' as he stated his case for Brexit at a rally in Bristol on Saturday.

He's not wrong that's for sure.

AlmightyKfish
I'm pretty certain he is wrong, at least imo.

Also kinda funny he talks about bad social cohesion here in Bristol, a notably diverse and fairly accepting city.

That being said, he's right about Cameron lying about things during his campaigning. It's pretty hilarious looking at some of the promises made by the Conservatives before the elections, and how they literally did the opposite once they were in power. Stuff like promising not to cut NHS spending, cutting the child tax credits etc.

It's xyz!
He is absolutely. He said mass immigration from the middle east war zone will put women at risk for rape. It happened in Germany and Sweden is usually very open about the islamaphobia against rape allegations, but very quiet for the actual rape cases they report.

I think people dont understand until they actually are out in public during the day and the night.

I don't see rape, but I do see suspicious behaviour.

I hear people talking in foreign languages (eastern europe and middle east) and theyre either talking about drugs or women.

The difference being, they can play the race card.

If we stay in the EU, there will be more non-British in Britain who will follow on actions and the entire media and school systems will make it out that its racist to call out suspicious behaviour, and that we should be welcoming more asylum seekers over, regardless of their background.

The job market is also saturated to ****.

AlmightyKfish
It's pretty presumptuous to assume people speaking in other languages are speaking about drugs or women.

They're far more likely to be talking about football. Or work. Or going to the pub . Or any number of things.

jaden101
Originally posted by AlmightyKfish
It's pretty presumptuous to assume people speaking in other languages are speaking about drugs or women.

They're far more likely to be talking about football. Or work. Or going to the pub . Or any number of things.

ALLAAAHHHUUU AAAACCCKKKBAAAAARRRR!!!!!

Stigma
Some pro-brexit arguments:

watch?v=rNJ05NfM-4Y

cdtm
I like how the argument of law enforcement working together to combat terrorists, rapists, murders keeps coming up.

Sure, lets put politics ahead of justice. You left the EU, no collaberation on cstching that terrorist for you.

Time-Immemorial
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2016/06/07/why-brexit-make-germany-big-loser/85180498/

Germany will be a big loser in this.

It's xyz!
Originally posted by AlmightyKfish
It's pretty presumptuous to assume people speaking in other languages are speaking about drugs or women.

They're far more likely to be talking about football. Or work. Or going to the pub . Or any number of things. It's not presumptuous. The words cocaine are muttered every so often. Some will talk in foreign languages staring at white women. It happens.

It's not like white people don't do this, but god damn it, this is England. Speak English.

It's xyz!
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-36504890

This is good news.

Digi
My exposure to this story is mostly filtered through my job, which is with a finance company. Apparently there's a lot more unrest in economists throughout the world at the possibility of a Brexit. Most see staying with the EU as the better long-term solution. Janet Yellen even cited a possible Brexit as one of the reasons the FED hasn't raised interest rates any higher so far this year. At the very least, Brexit would come with a TON of short-term market volatility. If anyone has any experience in ForEx trading, next Thursday is the time.

Time-Immemorial
So happy to hear this, Fck the EU and the globalist agenda.

Stigma
Some informative video on the issue:

The ITV #Brexit "Debate"- David Cameron & Nigel Farage on the EU Referendum

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=baCwRZ7Fbvc

EDIT: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=baCwRZ7Fbvc

walshy
Today's the day

Stigma
Originally posted by walshy
Today's the day
Indeed!

Very interesting. It might be the game changer for the EU.

AlmightyKfish
Just got back from voting, now the day long wait to find out what will actually happen.

Apparently this already seems to have a really high voter turnout compared to other referendums and such.

Surtur
Originally posted by Stigma
A new argument surfaces in the debate on Brexit:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3625475/Nigel-Farage-says-security-Britain-risk-stay-EU-ISIS-promise-flood-Continent-jihadists.html

Nigel Farage says British women will be at risk of mass sex attacks by gangs of migrants if we vote to stay in the EU

He said people have seen that Mr Cameron has not followed through with his pledge to reduce migration and cut a new deal for the UK EU membership.

Mr Farage said: 'He is 'Dishonest Dave'. The honesty and straightforwardness of the Prime Minister are now being questioned.'

He added: 'David Cameron has basically said things to get votes. He won office in 2010 and 2015 by telling the British public things that he knew not to be true.'

The comments come as Farage warned Britain's national security was at risk if the UK remained in the EU because 'ISIS promise to flood the Continent with jihadists'.

He suggested that open borders have led to migration that has been 'bad for social cohesion' as he stated his case for Brexit at a rally in Bristol on Saturday.

Why not just make it so the borders are no longer open for the time being?

AlmightyKfish
The borders here aren't open, even EU citizens need valid EU passports etc unlike the Schengen area on the mainland.

There's just a shorter queue for EU passports at arrivals.

Surtur
But then why is he talking about open borders?

jaden101
Odds have been slashed to 1/12 for remain and increased to 9/1 for brexit. Bookies are rarely wrong

AlmightyKfish
Originally posted by Surtur
But then why is he talking about open borders?

Because the entire debate about immigration has been framed terribly for years.

They say things like 'our borders are just open' as it implies anyone can just walk in and gets the knee jerk reactions people like Farage want.

Surtur
Originally posted by AlmightyKfish
Because the entire debate about immigration has been framed terribly for years.

They say things like 'our borders are just open' as it implies anyone can just walk in and gets the knee jerk reactions people like Farage want.

Hmm, you could be correct..but I do have to say I actually didn't think he was trying to say your borders were literally open as if anyone could just easily cross over without being stopped at all. That would be insane for any country anywhere to do.

carthage
So what's the expected vote?

krisblaze
Britain doesn't have the stones to get out.

They'll vote remain.

walshy
Polls are showing that it's likely that Britain will leave Europe and there's riots breaking out in London mainly comprised of various migrants

Nephthys
First I've heard of that. Pretty sure no-one knows whats happening right now.

Surtur
Originally posted by walshy
Polls are showing that it's likely that Britain will leave Europe and there's riots breaking out in London mainly comprised of various migrants

Lol migrants rioting? I'm shocked!!

Lord Lucien
Did you vote, Neph?

BlackJackal
Originally posted by krisblaze
Britain doesn't have the stones to get out.

They'll vote remain.

Care to explain why they are leaving then?

ArtificialGlory
Looks like it's going to be Leave. What interesting times we live in.

BlackJackal
It's been called, they are leaving. God exists, I can't say anything had made me more happy about this in a long time. Praise be to all the people who have had enough and had the stones to vote up.

Brexit 2016, something to remember for all time.

jaden101
Currently 52% leave and 48% remain with only 43 of over 300 council areas left to declare.

Pound has dropped in value to lowest level since 1985.

AlmightyKfish
Yup.

Personally this really frustrates/angers me, but you know, gotta just move forward from here.

The finance markets were super interesting tonight too, the first few remain results kept the Sterling pretty steady, then the big Sunderland leave result dropped it hugely, and now it's down to 1.35 or so against the USD for the first time since 1985 or something.

I mean it's dropped by like 8% in the space of a few hours, which for a steady currency for a G8 nation is absolutely insane, as a 1% drop is generally considered big.

And yeah I've stayed up all night watching how things have been going.

BlackJackal
Originally posted by AlmightyKfish
Yup.

Personally this really frustrates/angers me, but you know, gotta just move forward from here.

The finance markets were super interesting tonight too, the first few remain results kept the Sterling pretty steady, then the big Sunderland leave result dropped it hugely, and now it's down to 1.35 or so against the USD for the first time since 1985 or something.

I mean it's dropped by like 8% in the space of a few hours, which for a steady currency for a G8 nation is absolutely insane, as a 1% drop is generally considered big.

And yeah I've stayed up all night watching how things have been going.

Interesting to see one more interested in a fiat currency which is always in flux then a sovereign nation and a nation of sovereign laws not subject to the whims of the radical leftist agenda such a Germany who spearheads the EU now. Secondly I highly doubt this currency exchange effects you that much in your personal finances. If it did, maybe you lost some, maybe you didn't. Either way, you have a free country now. Don't spoil it by fretting over a fiat currency.

BlackJackal
Cameron lost, Great news actually.

Summarizing: "he gambled and lost, he asked for people to put their trust in him, they didn't. "

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/06/24/david-cameron-is-finished-his-failure-over-europe-will-define-hi/

carthage
What other countries in the EU have upcoming referendums on whether to rescind their membership?

AlmightyKfish
Originally posted by BlackJackal
Interesting to see one more interested in a fiat currency which is always in flux then a sovereign nation and a nation of sovereign laws not subject to the whims of the radical leftist agenda such a Germany who spearheads the EU now. Secondly I highly doubt this currency exchange effects you that much in your personal finances. If it did, maybe you lost some, maybe you didn't. Either way, you have a free country now. Don't spoil it by fretting over a fiat currency.

Yeah our country has been free and still is.

We've been involved in like 95% of the positive votes in the EU and have only lost out in the other 5 or so. The vast majority of issues here are not caused by the EU, but rather austerity led policies from a right wing government that will now only get more right wing after this. The whole 'the EU is oppressing you and ruining your life' stance is a fallacy that's been perpetuated by politically motivated media, that in and of itself is owned by billionaires with no agenda to help the country and its people.

And I mean yeah it probably doesn't affect my personal finances too much as I'm just graduating from uni with barely any money, but that doesn't mean it's worth talking about as London is the the finance capitol of the entire planet.

ArtificialGlory
Originally posted by carthage
What other countries in the EU have upcoming referendums on whether to rescind their membership?
None so far, I think.

Tzeentch
Originally posted by krisblaze
Britain doesn't have the stones to get out.

They'll vote remain. lol


- - - -

Anyway, don't worry Britain. After your currency finishes free-falling into oblivion, we'll gladly accept you guys as a protectorate- not a state though... more like a... "colony", I suppose. Some entity that's under our umbrella but doesn't have any representation in our governance.

Tzeentch
Originally posted by BlackJackal
Interesting to see one more interested in a fiat currency which is always in flux then a sovereign nation and a nation of sovereign laws not subject to the whims of the radical leftist agenda such a Germany who spearheads the EU now. Secondly I highly doubt this currency exchange effects you that much in your personal finances. If it did, maybe you lost some, maybe you didn't. Either way, you have a free country now. Don't spoil it by fretting over a fiat currency. Ironic that you say that as an American, as conceptually the EU is Europe's answer to the United States. Britain leaving the EU is equivalent to a US state seceding, with the exception that there are rules in the EU that make it legal to leave.

Utrigita
Originally posted by Tzeentch
Anyway, don't worry Britain. After your currency finishes free-falling into oblivion, we'll gladly accept you guys as a protectorate- not a state though... more like a... "colony", I suppose. Some entity that's under our umbrella but doesn't have any representation in our governance.

thumb up

krisblaze
Congratulations Britain!
Originally posted by krisblaze
Britain doesn't have the stones to get out.

They'll vote remain.

lmao I stand corrected.

Tzeentch
tbf I don't think anyone predicted that they'd actually leave, not even those who voted for it.

Stigma
Originally posted by BlackJackal
It's been called, they are leaving. God exists, I can't say anything had made me more happy about this in a long time. Praise be to all the people who have had enough and had the stones to vote up.

Brexit 2016, something to remember for all time. thumb up

Indeed. Congratulations to Britain! A truly historic event.

I hope this will be the first step into the full dismemberment (pun intended) of the EU.

walshy
David Cameron is resigning

krisblaze
Originally posted by Stigma
thumb up

Indeed. Congratulations to Britain! A truly historic event.

I hope this will be the first step into the full dismemberment (pun intended) of the EU.
Yeah, so maybe you polish ***** can stay in your own country for once lmao

It's xyz!
We're going to be a stronger country like we was before the EU. We've actually ****ing done it.

Bardock, your country is going to shit, not ours!

krisblaze
How's the pound doing? big grin

It's xyz!
Irrelevant.

We're going to boom.

It's xyz!
https://www.funnyjunk.com/God+save+our+gracious+meme+2/funny-pictures/5867449/41

AlmightyKfish
Originally posted by It's xyz!
We're going to be a stronger country like we was before the EU. We've actually ****ing done it.

Bardock, your country is going to shit, not ours!

That's such a ludicrous false equivalence it's unbelievable.

We boomed because of an immoral empire that should never have of existed. We no longer own states around the world.

It's very much gonna be unknown territory at this point.

And yeah, the pound is doing absolutely terrible. the worst it's been in 30 years.

Stigma
Originally posted by krisblaze
Yeah, so maybe you polish ***** can stay in your own country for once lmao
Sweeping generalizations and unwarranted foul language are the forte of morons.

Going by the charitable interpretation of your post as not a form of baiting, I take that you are a part of that group. Mommy would be proud. thumb up

Originally posted by walshy
David Cameron is resigning
thumb up

One_Angry_Scot
Originally posted by AlmightyKfish
That's such a ludicrous false equivalence it's unbelievable.

We boomed because of an immoral empire that should never have of existed. We no longer own states around the world.

It's very much gonna be unknown territory at this point.

And yeah, the pound is doing absolutely terrible. the worst it's been in 30 years.

Mainly because big companies are shit scared and moving their money. Kind of shows exactly what they thought of this result.

Shows where their allegiances are placed.

Scribble

It's xyz!
Originally posted by AlmightyKfish
That's such a ludicrous false equivalence it's unbelievable.

We boomed because of an immoral empire that should never have of existed. We no longer own states around the world.

It's very much gonna be unknown territory at this point.

And yeah, the pound is doing absolutely terrible. the worst it's been in 30 years. I'm sorry, I haven't actually seen the pound do bad outside of propoganda news shite. The pound is how valuable we make it, just because the EU is sour with us doesn't mean it's going to stay that way.

And the British Empire was not immoral. We colonised the ****ing world and produced the very things you hold dear. Globalisation started WITH the British Empire.

Stigma
This is a very interesting point.

However, do you think it's possible that Brexit will also spur changes in the government, as a result of the social invigoration it seems to be signaling.

It's xyz!
Scribble thinks Johnson would be a worse PM.

Stigma
I see.

One_Angry_Scot
@Scribble (since it won't let me quote you).

So I hope you aren't implying that the Remain campaign was completely pure and devoid of any incorrect facts?

And what's the problem with hard Nationalism?

And also implying that somehow voting Leave (and generalising the Working Class at the same time), leaves us at the mercy of the government. The whole government is in disarray at the moment. Nobody can say either way what the result will be yet. I really disagree with the way you use the working class to bolster your point. Every class was "bolstered" to vote this time because it's so important it breached any class divide. It was the people that decided. Not any particular class.

One_Angry_Scot
Originally posted by It's xyz!
Scribble thinks Johnson would be a worse PM.

Johnson would be funny, he goes to the G8 and Rugby tackles Hollande because he disagrees with his policies like he did at Soccer Aid.

You can't argue against that type of brutality.

It's xyz!
Originally posted by One_Angry_Scot
Johnson would be funny, he goes to the G8 and Rugby tackles Hollande because he disagrees with his policies like he did at Soccer Aid.

You can't argue against that type of brutality. He would negotiate with the Chinese over a game of wiff waff.

One_Angry_Scot
Originally posted by It's xyz!
He would negotiate with the Chinese over a game of wiff waff.

http://i.imgur.com/Bcpy9sB.gif

Scribble

krisblaze
Originally posted by Stigma
Sweeping generalizations and unwarranted foul language are the forte of morons.

Going by the charitable interpretation of your post as not a form of baiting, I take that you are a part of that group. Mommy would be proud. thumb up
Nice damage control thumb up

It's not a sweeping generalization to point out that the migration in Poland exploded after Poland's EU accession.

One_Angry_Scot
@Scribble

Fair enough, I disagree that it was primarily built on misinformation completely. I originally thought you was coming from a 100% supporting Remain side.

You don't have to answer it, because I'm very well aware of history.

Your whole point of no ferver in the Remain campaign kind of hints at what I was saying. The Leave campaign was helped by people all feeling passionate and wanting something new.

I'm very proud of my heritage and my roots. I gladly celebrate the fact I'm Scottish and venerate my forebears. Visiting the landmarks of previous civilisations. Being proud of who you you are isn't a sin. Hard nationalism isn't a a venn diagram where National Socialists are the only occupier.

I'd disagree with the Leave voter then in that case too.

AlmightyKfish
Originally posted by It's xyz!
I'm sorry, I haven't actually seen the pound do bad outside of propoganda news shite. The pound is how valuable we make it, just because the EU is sour with us doesn't mean it's going to stay that way.

And the British Empire was not immoral. We colonised the ****ing world and produced the very things you hold dear. Globalisation started WITH the British Empire.

Well okay, the pound is doing badly, everywhere is reporting it but if you don't want to use google then here's a few-

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2016/06/23/markets-live-will-sterling-surge-or-slump-as-the-eu-referendum-c/

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-06-23/pound-tumbles-on-results-from-northeast-england-in-eu-referendum

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-36611512

And yeah, the BE was immoral. We committed a horrendous amount of harm forcing our definition of 'civilisation' upon others who we considered less human than the 'enlightened white European'. Sure things did develop from it, but nothing at all justifiable or worth the horrors done in the name of progress. I mean concentration camps were started by us in the Boer. We killed thousands because they defied us. We fuelled the transatlantic slave trade for generations, let alone other slave trades and indentured work forces the world over.

The Empire was a horrifying situation, at least when considered by our current moral standards. The fact that you say colonising in a positive sense is bad in and of itself.

Stigma
Originally posted by krisblaze
Nice damage control thumb up

It's not a sweeping generalization to point out that the migration in Poland exploded after Poland's EU accession.
It is, given that you did not say that, you said this::

Originally posted by krisblaze
Yeah, so maybe you polish ***** can stay in your own country for once lmao
And this does not qualify what you mean, but makes you look overly agressive.

Not sure what the point of that slur was tbh?

Possibly you should make more modest and more accurate claims like "a sizeable part of Polish population of young people emigrated since Poland joint the EU 12 years ago" etc. With which I'd have no quarell.thumb up


However, if this is cleared up we can move on to the Brexit issue, which I feel will be the main news for days, if not weeks, to come.

Scribble

One_Angry_Scot
@Scribble

I can only disagree, but neither of us will change eachother's opinions here. So I'll agree to disagree.

A partly like UKIP isn't racist. The problem is when you have a load of old fogeys (and adults), who are annoyed at the establishment and are also thick as a short plank are given a platform to talk.

Anybody who believes different to the establishment (whether they are idiots or not) is brushed aside. So it doesn't surprise me that Roger Helmer etc end up in UKIP. And it's quite amusing because the media doesn't cover (at least generally) when a Lib/Lab/Con MP says something racist or gets convicted for something sick. Doesn't give them as much ammo as if a UKIP (who are anti establishment and seen as the enemy) member does something criminal. It doesn't prove they are anything in my opinion.

I don't see the problem with someone being a Nationalist. I guess it depends on what you consider one.

Scribble

Stigma
After Brexit, What Would Be The Campaign Names Of Other Countries If they Left All Sorts Of Unions?

http://img-9gag-fun.9cache.com/photo/aop0nbX_700b_v1.jpg


stick out tongue

One_Angry_Scot
@Scribble

I would argue the difference is that while Corbyn has anti establishment tendencies. He has now absorbed himself into the Westminster Government. He's also a leader of the opposition (still a part of a main Government party) so he will be the butt of many jokes for Tory papers and such.

Whereas Farage and UKIP are like the antithesis to both. They are the opposition to everyone. So they can all bounce off of him.

And again with Ken Livingstone. He's again part of a establishment and a former Mayor with friends in helpful places. Even though he said nothing anti semitic (which the media said he did) it very soon gets swept under the brush. In short they get the criticism but then it disappears within a matter of days.

There is silly people on both sides. And mainly it is idiots arguing with idiots. For example when people say they don't want any more Muslim immigrants in the country, and not meant as harshly as that (however they phrase it). And somehow that's racist even though Islam isn't a race. It is a very big quagmire.

I could tend to agree more with the anger a Brexit supporter might express when they say traitor to a Remain voter. And it is only because of this, a lot of Remain voters seemed unaware that our sovereignty slowly erodes over time. And to see our country slowly ruined and then to see someone encourage people to vote for something that continues allowing it to happen. Although I wont say that Brexit voters are innocent. As I have seen racist remarks from them too. But I do see the point of the Brexit voters more in this case.

It certainly will be interesting in the next few months. Should be fun.

One_Angry_Scot
And now a motion of no confidence has been put against Corbyn.

BlackJackal
Originally posted by krisblaze
Nice damage control thumb up

It's not a sweeping generalization to point out that the migration in Poland exploded after Poland's EU accession.

Originally posted by krisblaze
Britain doesn't have the stones to get out.

They'll vote remain.

Appears you in damage control as you were the one saying they were not going to leave. When you ended up being wrong, you started attacking others.

BlackJackal
Originally posted by AlmightyKfish
Yeah our country has been free and still is.

We've been involved in like 95% of the positive votes in the EU and have only lost out in the other 5 or so. The vast majority of issues here are not caused by the EU, but rather austerity led policies from a right wing government that will now only get more right wing after this. The whole 'the EU is oppressing you and ruining your life' stance is a fallacy that's been perpetuated by politically motivated media, that in and of itself is owned by billionaires with no agenda to help the country and its people.

And I mean yeah it probably doesn't affect my personal finances too much as I'm just graduating from uni with barely any money, but that doesn't mean it's worth talking about as London is the the finance capitol of the entire planet.

This is factually wrong, while apart of the EU, you were not free.

krisblaze
Originally posted by BlackJackal
Appears you in damage control as you were the one saying they were not going to leave. When you ended up being wrong, you started attacking others.
Damage control?

I owned up to my mistake in the following post.

BlackJackal
Originally posted by krisblaze
Yeah, so maybe you polish ***** can stay in your own country for once lmao

Then went on a racist cursing rant and talking about our fiat currency which means nothing in the light of things. You clearly were looking for an out.

krisblaze
Originally posted by BlackJackal
Then went on a racist cursing rant and talking about our fiat currency which means nothing in the light of things. You clearly were looking for an out.
What is racist about that post?

Did you mean xenophobic?

I wanted to flame the polish guy, nothing racist about that.

BlackJackal
Good call, yes. A xenophobic cursing rant.

krisblaze
Originally posted by BlackJackal
Good call, yes. A xenophobic cursing rant.

I don't think two lines qualify as a rant.

BlackJackal
No need for uncalled cursing and xenophobia of a group of people because you were unhappy with the results.

Stigma
Originally posted by krisblaze

I wanted to flame the polish guy, nothing racist about that. You'd be much wiser to use legitimate tactics in your post, actually.

FYI Isn't flaming against the forum rules? Alongside baiting and general trolling. I am positive it is.

TBH nothing wrong with some trash talk but you just came out of nowhere and suddenly spouted some ethnic slur. SMH.

Just a day ago or so we had an outing of a political troll (Sin). Do not follow in her footsteps. thumb up

AlmightyKfish
Originally posted by BlackJackal
This is factually wrong, while apart of the EU, you were not free.

Idk as someone who factually lives here I'd say we've always been pretty free.

We were basically never stopped doing anything by Brussels, and most EU regulations that were in place are there for a greater good. Plus we actually opted out of big Eu things like the Schengen Area etc, if that were a thing people thought was limiting freedoms or whatnot.

krisblaze
Originally posted by Stigma
You'd be much wiser to use legitimate tactics in your post, actually.

FYI Isn't flaming against the forum rules? Alongside baiting and general trolling. I am positive it is.

TBH nothing wrong with some trash talk but you just came out of nowhere and suddenly spouted some ethnic slur. SMH.

Just a day ago or so we had an outing of a political troll (Sin). Do not follow in her footsteps. thumb up
What was the ethnic slur?

BlackJackal
Originally posted by AlmightyKfish
Idk as someone who factually lives here I'd say we've always been pretty free.

We were basically never stopped doing anything by Brussels, and most EU regulations that were in place are there for a greater good. Plus we actually opted out of big Eu things like the Schengen Area etc, if that were a thing people thought was limiting freedoms or whatnot.

I was born and lived in Manchester for 20 years.

krisblaze
Originally posted by AlmightyKfish
Idk as someone who factually lives here I'd say we've always been pretty free.

We were basically never stopped doing anything by Brussels, and most EU regulations that were in place are there for a greater good. Plus we actually opted out of big Eu things like the Schengen Area etc, if that were a thing people thought was limiting freedoms or whatnot.

How do you feel about land subsidies? And EU funds being used to keep third world countries poor?

AlmightyKfish

FinalAnswer
Originally posted by It's xyz!
And the British Empire was not immoral.

Lmao

Nibedicus
48-52.

That's actually not that big a gap. How different do you guys think it would have been if the EU decided to take a milder, more cautious approach to the refugee/migrant crisis? Which country/governement/politician/etc do you guys think is truly to blame for all this?

I remember reading in huffpost forum about a liberal being for some form of controlled (as opposed to the "take our country, it's yours" crowd) screening for the refugees to avoid letting non-refugee troublemakers in and he literally got crucified in huffpost. His point was that the EU was wasting a lot of political capital on a huge risk and that if they just take more cautious steps and at least show that they did what they could, then they would avoid giving up too much political goodwill in case something bad happens. Do you guys think recent events have proven his point?

Not a European and I only know what the news tells me, but I have found this topic interesting as of late.

Beniboybling
According to a recent poll 75% of 18-24 year olds in the UK voted remain. How ironic.

BlackJackal
That age groups are the ones who have been most recently inducted into the globalist system of pop culture brainwashing, govenment education, media manipulation. Young minds are easily impressionable.

One_Angry_Scot
Originally posted by Nibedicus
48-52.

That's actually not that big a gap. How different do you guys think it would have been if the EU decided to take a milder, more cautious approach to the refugee/migrant crisis? Which country/governement/politician/etc do you guys think is truly to blame for all this?

I remember reading in huffpost forum about a liberal being for some form of controlled (as opposed to the "take our country, it's yours" crowd) screening for the refugees to avoid letting non-refugee troublemakers in and he literally got crucified in huffpost. His point was that the EU was wasting a lot of political capital on a huge risk and that if they just take more cautious steps and at least show that they did what they could, then they would avoid giving up too much political goodwill in case something bad happens. Do you guys think recent events have proven his point?

Not a European and I only know what the news tells me, but I have found this topic interesting as of late.

I don't think it would be any different if the migrant crisis was dealt with differently because the issues have been going on for more than a decade with the EU. I don't think the migrant crisis hugely affected the results to be honest.

I wouldn't bother reading Huffington Post. It seems like a propaganda piece. And they seem to have really crap editors. If you look at the pages when Donald Trump got elected it looks like a child in clip art edited the webpage.

I don't think the UK should be taking in refugees anyway as it is. Our housing system is bad as it is. That doesn't mean they have to be left to be abandoned in the sea. More of the Gulf countries could take in more migrants. Look at Jordan, has taken a giant amount of migrants for it's size and look at how many the richer larger countries have taken in.

I never understand why Scandinavian and European countries get so much flack for not taking as many migrants in as we "should". It's not up to us. There own people should take them under their wing.

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