I've still not made up my mind. Not least because voting either way means you're siding with either Boris Johnson or David Cameron. Both of whom have changed their opinion on the issue in the last year. Boris has done it purely as a calculated risk that if the leave side win he will be front runner for Prime minister and Cameron's position is just laughable. He said he'd support leaving if the negotiations for change with the EU didn't win him the right concessions for the UK. He didn't win them and is in favour of remaining in the EU. He's also now saying that leaving the EU would result in war despite being in favour of leaving under certain circumstances and also despite the fact that the risk of the UK leaving the EU and thus the supposed risk of war IS HIS FAULT...because he's the one who called the referendum in the first place.
Anyway. It ties in with Scottish independence as Scotland will likely vote to stay but may be taken out of the EU by the English vote.
The EU is non negotiable and there is a terrible sense of mass immigration in Britain and Europe. I notice that only youths and immigrants want to remain, the BBC is focusing on those people to interview.
There is a silent majority to leave thanks to Nigel.
But what really makes me want to leave is how undemocratic and backwards ass it is. It is pure Eurocrats. They don't listen to common sense.
TBH I'm not sure what is the right move for Britain to do, as Brexit is a multi-dimensional issue, but I have a feeling they are going to leave.
Farage is right on many issues.
There is a great clip somewhere on youtube of him and prof. Legutko from Poland absolutely destroying Merkel and Hollande in the EU Parliament.
__________________ "I judged the Poles by their enemies. And I found it was an almost unfailing truth that their enemies were the enemies of magnanimity and manhood. If a man loved slavery, if he loved usury, if he loved terrorism and all the trampled mire of materialistic politics, I have always found that he added to these affections the passion of a hatred of Poland. She could be judged in the light of that hatred; and the judgment has proved to be right."
--- G.K. Chesterton
Last edited by Stigma on May 19th, 2016 at 08:54 AM
I'm definitely voting to stay. The benefits of the EU really outweigh the problems of it and the fact is, many of the complaints have been massively overstated and hyped up with fearful rhetoric.
Plus you know, leaving the EU and as such the free movement/employment will be far more detrimental to us than any potential fears about immigration. There's some crazy percentage like 25% of all NHS workers are from outside Britain or some such, and putting more potential roadblocks that may end up forcing people to leave the country just doesn't seem like a good plan.
Also, Nigel Farage and his ilk are moronic fear mongers. The man is a joke, who even other members of the Leave campaign don't want to be associated with because of how toxic he is in most peoples eyes.
What benefits are you talking about? Which complaints?
I think free movement has saturated the job market and we should remove those workers. I spoke to a couple of Romanians after doing a shift a while back, they've been here two years and can only get agency work where speaking English isnt a complete necessity. 25% of nhs workers from outside of Britain is a crazy percentage. It's our NHS ffs. I want them to leave the country because it makes patients uncomfortable, particularly mental health patients.
You just said leaving the Eu will be detrimental to us and you're claiming Nigel as fear mongering? Who are these members you speak of?
its made Europe stronger at our expense. We will see economic change, but not necessarily decline.
Canada, Australia, New Zealand and The United States are stronger than most of Europe. We are not cutting ties with European economies, we are cutting ties with beureacratic regulations and will instead negotiate as a foreign economy. This strengthens our position.
It's no surprise that Norway, Switzerland, Monaco, Iceland and Liechtenstein are better off than France, Sweden, Spain, Italy and Ireland.
In fact, most countries decline after joining Europe. This is because Germany sucks up other countries around it and encourages France and Britain to do the same. France complies, Britian says no, mostly.
The United States is a much larger country than any European country, and Canada's economy benefits from a free-trade agreement with the USA as well as vice versa. Australia is in the middle of a resource boom which may not ultimately be sustainable. Idk anything about New Zealand tbh.
Those countries you mentioned were already richer than the EU countries you list BEFORE those countries joined the EU, so that's not a good comparison.
“Where the longleaf pines are whispering
to him who loved them so.
Where the faint murmurs now dwindling
echo o’er tide and shore."
-A Grave Epitaph in Santa Rosa County, Florida; I wish I could remember the man's name.
Usa and Canada are better markets than the euro and we are culturally similar to them over Europe. Australia's boom may be sustainable and New Zealand is doing rather well as far as small countries go. Plenty of resources and economic opportunity.
It is actually. The richer countries did not join the EU. They've been asked and declined. I would consider us a rich country. Not because we are in the EU, but a long history of empire and Anglosphere has made us so. We do not need to send our money to unelected politicians in Brussels who write laws we have to follow. It's not even good business to do so.
Norway, rich, wanted to maintain its rich economic shares for itself and has done so. Sweden, moderately poorer, joined the EU and had to follow EU laws when maintaining its shares and policies. Is culturally weaker and economically weaker. Neither country uses the Euro.
Switzerland, rich, wanted to maintain its rich economic shares for itself and has done so. Italy, moderately poorer, joined the EU and had to follow EU laws when maintaining its shares and policies. Is culturally weaker and economically weaker. Both of these countries use the Euro.
Why do rich countries not join? Why do the countries that do join, decline culturally and/or economically compared to their neighbours?
Is this due to the EU, or is it purely a coincidence?