Darth Sidious vs Cassandra Nova

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"Id"
Darth Sidious EU

VS

Cassandra Nova

Go!

"Id"
Some feel he is more than a match for her here
http://www.narutoforums.com/threads/casandra-nova-vs-darth-sidious.1074635/#post-55694742

What are your thoughts?

krisblaze
Sidious doesn't have the tp feats.

There's no way around that.

Galan007
Yeah, Palpatine's mind gets turned to Jello nigh-instantly. srsly

XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Yeah, Sidious best TP feats include casually mindraping the some 20 billion population of Byss, mindwiping millions/billions of people to hide a star destroyer on Coruscant, mindraping Vader, and twisting DE Luke so thoroughly to the dark side that the latter forgot his own name. So gauge him off those, I guess. thumb up

Surtur
Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Yeah, Sidious best TP feats include casually mindraping the some 20 billion population of Byss, mindwiping millions/billions of people to hide a star destroyer on Coruscant, mindraping Vader, and twisting DE Luke so thoroughly to the dark side that the latter forgot his own name. So gauge him off those, I guess. thumb up

If he's got enough telepathic power to mindwipe 20 billion people at once then he should win.

Galan007
Byss was a dark side nexus... It amped the power of dark side users on the planet tremendously. Without such a nexus point empowering him, Palpatine is nowhere near that level.

Cassandra stomps. Telepathically brutalizing an amped Xavier speaks for itself...

XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
The 2nd is confirmed to have occurred in the New Essential Chronology.

XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Originally posted by Galan007
Byss was a dark side nexus... It amped the power of dark side users on the planet tremendously. Without such a nexus point empowering him, Palpatine is nowhere near that level.

Ehh? You may be overrating the value of a nexus here, one IIRC fashioned by none other by The Emperor himself. Heck, Palpatine's been stated on more than one occasion as being the embodiment of the dark side and a force nexus. His death above Endor actually left a force nexus.

And Palpatine's inferior, Emperor Vitiate, while a weakened spirit was able to mindrape the populace of Ziost, a population including civilians and force users alike. So I wouldn't say such a feat is outside of Sheev's capacity, tbh.

There's also long Pre-Prime Palpatine and Plagueis shifting the balance of the force towards the dark side via sheer willpower, (though this involved intense meditation over the course of a few months, this is a universal cosmic power we're talking about, here).

Surtur
So the Emperor created the nexus, but did the nexus amp him? If so this is an important detail.

Remember Xavier can collect the thoughts of an entire planet to use as a psychic attack. Nova is at least on his level.

Galan007
I'm overrating, eh?

Okay then... Name a TP feat he preformed without a nexus-amp that is anywhere near that level.

Originally posted by Surtur
So the Emperor created the nexus, but did the nexus amp him? If so this is an important detail. Dark side nexus points amp dark side users.

XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
I mean, he wasn't even on the planet. This was a process he carried on for roughly two decades, slowly siphoning the energies of the entire population to fuel his immortality. The nexus more likely than not did help, but their telepathic subjugation is still credited to, "The Emperor's Dark Side Influence."

XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Originally posted by Galan007
I'm overrating, eh?

Okay then... Name a TP feat he preformed without a nexus-amp that is anywhere near that level.

Mindwiping millions on Coruscant to hide a Super Star Destroyer? Force imbalancement pre-prime with Plagueis?

Surtur
Mind wiping millions is cool, but I feel like it was the Byss "20 billion people mentally effected" that put him on the level of Nova. So without that..

Galan007
Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Mindwiping millions on Coruscant to hide a Super Star Destroyer? Force imbalancement pre-prime with Plagueis? 1.) Mind-phucking millionS of people is several orders of magnitude INFERIOR to mind-phucking billionS of people. In no way/shape/form are these feats even remotely comparable in terms of scale.

2.) Had lots of prep. Was a shared feat with Plagueis. Took a LONG time. Wouldn't help him at all against Cassandra.


You're digging.

XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
I mean, there's also his Battle Meditation fueling the entire imperial fleet, though it's not mindrape. And his vast inferior (Vitiate) also mindraping a planet's populace.

Galan007
K.

Cassandra stomps.

h1a8
How fast can she fully take over someone's mind that has strong tp?
Because Pal can crush her whole body into a bloody pulp instantly.

In other words, say Cassandra outclass Pal in tp by a decent margin. But Pal is strong enough to resist (or fight) the tp long enough to crush her into a bloody pulp. Mindraping millions of people all at once should buy Pal at least a second.

psycho gundam
laughing out loud

"Id"
Originally posted by h1a8


In other words, say Cassandra outclass Pal in tp by a decent margin. But Pal is strong enough to resist (or fight) the tp long enough to crush her into a bloody pulp. Mindraping millions of people all at once should buy Pal at least a second.
Cassandra has tk, shields, and psi armor doe.

DarkSaint85
Darth Sidious crushes her.

Then Cassie mind swaps with him, and he dies.

Galan007
http://i.imgur.com/Xnc7Egf.gif

h1a8
Originally posted by "Id"
Cassandra has tk, shields, and psi armor doe. Shields and armor don't protect against bring crushed. Pals can crush someone inside a shield or inside armor. He has crushed ships and wrecked entire fleets. His force ability trumps her tk.

"Id"
Originally posted by h1a8
Shields and armor don't protect against bring crushed. Pals can crush someone inside a shield or inside armor. He has crushed ships and wrecked entire fleets. His force ability trumps her tk.

Cassandra has TK doe

krisblaze
Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Yeah, Sidious best TP feats include casually mindraping the some 20 billion population of Byss, mindwiping millions/billions of people to hide a star destroyer on Coruscant, mindraping Vader, and twisting DE Luke so thoroughly to the dark side that the latter forgot his own name. So gauge him off those, I guess. thumb up
Sure with plot devices anything goes, but I believe that is more tied to the force than simply Sidious' own powers.

Marvel telepaths have few planetary-scale feats because Magneto made longrange telepathy impossible, that's why Cerebra is so important.

Cassandra Nova has the greatest magnitude of telepathy we've seen, being capable of 10x Xavier and getting through shi'ar mental shields.

h1a8
Originally posted by "Id"
Cassandra has TK doe

You must didn't read my post. My last sentence was literally,"His force ability trumps her tk."

DarkSaint85
Does Sidious have defences against mindswapping?

h1a8
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Does Sidious have defences against mindswapping? We don't know. But he can crush her before she even achieves it.

StiltmanFTW
Originally posted by Galan007
Cassandra stomps. Telepathically brutalizing an amped Xavier speaks for itself...

By "amped" you mean when he was using Cerebra?

Galan007
...Which amped his psychic powers. Yes.

"Id"
Originally posted by h1a8
You must didn't read my post. My last sentence was literally,"His force ability trumps her tk."

But Cassandra Nova tanked Jean Psionic attack, when Jean was the acting as the Host Phoenix Force doe.

What have you done for me lately h1a8?

DarkSaint85
Originally posted by h1a8
We don't know. But he can crush her before she even achieves it.

Why do you say this?

She exists as psionic energy. And can do so without a physical body.

StiltmanFTW
Originally posted by Galan007
...Which amped his psychic powers. Yes.

It did. Was superior to Cerebro, in fact.

h1a8
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Why do you say this?

She exists as psionic energy. And can do so without a physical body. once her physical body is destroyed then she loses. Otherwise, we can use a no limits fallacy and say that she can't be defeated by anyone. Also Pal can bfr people through both time and space with the force.

Galan007
Palpatine has time-dumped someone before? That's new to me.

Scans?

psycho gundam
Originally posted by h1a8
once her physical body is destroyed then she loses. Otherwise, we can use a no limits fallacy and say that she can't be defeated by anyone. Also Pal can bfr people through both time and space with the force. laughing out loud

h1a8
Originally posted by Galan007
Palpatine has time-dumped someone before? That's new to me.

Scans?
Actually I'm reaching a little bit. So I retract the statement.
Sith lords using an artifact called the darkstaff created forcestorms to send beings into the future (and across space). A thousand years later Pal learned how to create force storms by his own power. He never used it to send people in time but rather to send people through space (to another part of the galaxy).

Forcestorms are created by wormholes. Theoretically, someone can be sent through time using a wormhole.
So Pal time dumping is not an option here.

DarkSaint85
Originally posted by h1a8
once her physical body is destroyed then she loses. Otherwise, we can use a no limits fallacy and say that she can't be defeated by anyone. Also Pal can bfr people through both time and space with the force.

Erm, no. Where does it say destroying the physical body = loss?

Utrigita
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Does Sidious have defences against mindswapping?

In Legends Sidious did a considerable amount of mindswapping, both on others and himself. So while I don't think he is immune, he is at least familiar enough with the concept to swap himself back.

h1a8
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Erm, no. Where does it say destroying the physical body = loss? Then no one can lose. Think about it?

DarkSaint85
Originally posted by h1a8
Then no one can lose. Think about it?

Unless Sidious can stop her from affecting him, or attack her whilst she's energy.

If he cannot defend/attack her, but she can still attack/defend against him, then he cannot win, I agree.

But she can.

Galan007
Originally posted by h1a8
Actually I'm reaching a little bit. So I retract the statement.
Sith lords using an artifact called the darkstaff created forcestorms to send beings into the future (and across space). A thousand years later Pal learned how to create force storms by his own power. He never used it to send people in time but rather to send people through space (to another part of the galaxy).

Forcestorms are created by wormholes. Theoretically, someone can be sent through time using a wormhole.
So Pal time dumping is not an option here. Rhetorical question. I am very familiar with Palpatine and force storms. That's why I knew he had never time-dumped anyone. wink

Anyway, force storms were also very difficult for Palpatine to control, and required ALL of his power/concentration to be effective. We saw what happened when his power/concentration were momentarily severed after conjuring a force storm at the end of the story--his own attack destroyed him. In a nutshell, Palpatine cannot really multitask at all with a force storm in play. It would be an idiotic ability for him to try and use against someone like Cassandra, as it leaves him wide open to attack--especially given that they are on the same battlefield here.

Originally posted by Utrigita
In Legends Sidious did a considerable amount of mindswapping, both on others and himself. So while I don't think he is immune, he is at least familiar enough with the concept to swap himself back. He only used essence transfer when his physical bodies were destroyed. He never just body-hopped for the lulz.

And even then he could only transfer into hollow clones of himself OR beings whose minds were corrupted/broken. Cassandra is obviously neither, so it's not like Palpatine could forcefully overtake her if she destroyed his body or w/e... And if she mind-phucked him, essence transfer goes out the window entirely.

Aside from that, Palpatine cannot do anything at all(from an offensive POV) in his energy form. If he is rendered to that state, Cassandra wins by default.

___________________________________


Anywho, Cassandra still stomps. The Palpatine wank + total disregard for Cassandra's plethora of various psi feats is baffling.

Surtur
Originally posted by h1a8
once her physical body is destroyed then she loses. Otherwise, we can use a no limits fallacy and say that she can't be defeated by anyone. Also Pal can bfr people through both time and space with the force.

I would agree with you...if Nova was utterly helpless without a physical body.

But as she is not helpless without that then well..yeah, Sidious is in way over his head.

I think he'll be torn apart, psychically speaking of course.

h1a8
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Unless Sidious can stop her from affecting him, or attack her whilst she's energy.

If he cannot defend/attack her, but she can still attack/defend against him, then he cannot win, I agree.

But she can.

tbh, I don't think Cass was all that impressive. I mean what has she really done that's impressive? Swap minds with Charles? I'm thinking it is because they SHARE the same physic frequency as to why she said she could take him over so easily.

I also find it very hard to believe a telepath can willy nilly take over a being who has tped millions of people all at once. DS mind is very strong. Cass had trouble with Pryde (swapping minds). It would be very hard for her to do if not impossible.

Her other powers wasn't really that impressive. There were several evidences of her being able to lose by simply killing her body. After getting her neck snapped she didn't do much of anything right after but swap minds with Charles (because they share the same physic frequency). She's far weaker, if not, inactive without a body.

DS has options. He has superspeed and can blitz her in an instant.
He can crush her body, lightsaber her to pieces, or electrocute her.
This is all before she can even create a psi armor body.

You say she can attack him without a body? How and in what way? Any scans of her attacking without a body?

h1a8
Originally posted by Surtur
I would agree with you...if Nova was utterly helpless without a physical body.

But as she is not helpless without that then well..yeah, Sidious is in way over his head.

I think he'll be torn apart, psychically speaking of course.

What has Cass done without a body? Scans? Because everything she did she was in some body doing it. If she didn't share the same physic frequency as Charles then she would have been inactive for a long while. She transferred unto Charles right before her body was killed. So she had (and needs) a body for her powers to work.

h1a8
Originally posted by Galan007
Rhetorical question. I am very familiar with Palpatine and force storms. That's why I knew he had never time-dumped anyone. wink

Anyway, force storms were also very difficult for Palpatine to control, and required ALL of his power/concentration to be effective. We saw what happened when his power/concentration were momentarily severed after conjuring a force storm at the end of the story--his own attack destroyed him. In a nutshell, Palpatine cannot really multitask at all with a force storm in play. It would be an idiotic ability for him to try and use against someone like Cassandra, as it leaves him wide open to attack--especially given that they are on the same battlefield here.

He only used essence transfer when his physical bodies were destroyed. He never just body-hopped for the lulz.

And even then he could only transfer into hollow clones of himself OR beings whose minds were corrupted/broken. Cassandra is obviously neither, so it's not like Palpatine could forcefully overtake her if she destroyed his body or w/e... And if she mind-phucked him, essence transfer goes out the window entirely.

Aside from that, Palpatine cannot do anything at all(from an offensive POV) in his energy form. If he is rendered to that state, Cassandra wins by default.

___________________________________


Anywho, Cassandra still stomps. The Palpatine wank + total disregard for Cassandra's plethora of various psi feats is baffling.

I agree with you on everything here excepts Cass stomps. Her feats doesn't prove it to me. Her feats were either context based or not very impressive IMO (when it comes to a character like Pal). There is absolutely no feats that support her being able to take over Pals mind (a being powerful enough to mindrape millions of beings at the same time) BEFORE he destroys her body. He has superspeed and reflexes and from my knowledge, she doesn't start the battle with shields up (although that won't help her).

StiltmanFTW
Originally posted by h1a8
Her feats doesn't prove it to me.

That's because you have never read an X-Men comic in your entire life, h1.

psycho gundam
Originally posted by h1a8
tbh, I don't think Cass was all that impressive. I mean what has she really done that's impressive? Pretty much everything, even her existence was a feat of sorts

h1a8
Originally posted by psycho gundam
Pretty much everything, even her existence was a feat of sorts I read through most of her stuff (new x-men and astonishing) and she didn't see impressive on the level of high herald or better. I would rank her about low to mid herald at best. She still can be koed if you attack fast enough. And if you have a little tp resistance then that can buy you time.
IMO Dr. Xavier has more impressive tp feats (like making all the avengers sleep on command).

psycho gundam
What you can't see is that he has nothing that will touch of effect her and the inverse isn't true.

h1a8
Originally posted by psycho gundam
What you can't see is that he has nothing that will touch of effect her and the inverse isn't true.
lol, no one showed scans of her being able to attack WITHOUT a body.
In the stories she always had a body in which to operate her powers from. She was easily put down with a neck snap. She had trouble controlling several characters (they were able to put up a fight or not be affected). But while in Charles body she seemed more powerful.
At best, she was able to exist in her created psi gel-like body once Xavier forced her out. But there was no evidence of how long she can sustain that way and no evidence that she has tp attacking powers in that state.

DarkSaint85
She has possessive powers in that state.

Utrigita
Originally posted by Galan007
He only used essence transfer when his physical bodies were destroyed. He never just body-hopped for the lulz.

And even then he could only transfer into hollow clones of himself OR beings whose minds were corrupted/broken. Cassandra is obviously neither, so it's not like Palpatine could forcefully overtake her if she destroyed his body or w/e... And if she mind-phucked him, essence transfer goes out the window entirely.

Aside from that, Palpatine cannot do anything at all(from an offensive POV) in his energy form. If he is rendered to that state, Cassandra wins by default.

___________________________________


Anywho, Cassandra still stomps. The Palpatine wank + total disregard for Cassandra's plethora of various psi feats is baffling.

I disagree, his use of body swapping in Dark Saber on Bevel Lemelisk, not just once but numerous times, seemed to me like it was done primarily for the lolz. My post also wasn't meant to highlight mindswapping, essence swapping or whatever as a valid tactic for Palpatine to utilize and win, but to question that Cassandra Nova would be capable of just walking right in with her essence, given that Palpatine has experience against this, from using it on himself and others.

With that said, I completely agree that Cassandra Nova stomps, that has never been in question. I just think Cassandra will win by turning Palpatines mind into mush. That seems to me as being her favorite way of attacking anyways.

StiltmanFTW
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
She has possessive powers in that state.

He can prove with math that she doesn't!

2 + 2 - 3 : 3 x 5 + 10 = she doesn't

Oh and √4 + 12 : 4 x ∞ - √−1 = Sidious pwns






See, DS? H1math has raped you again.

Surtur
Originally posted by h1a8
lol, no one showed scans of her being able to attack WITHOUT a body.
In the stories she always had a body in which to operate her powers from. She was easily put down with a neck snap. She had trouble controlling several characters (they were able to put up a fight or not be affected). But while in Charles body she seemed more powerful.
At best, she was able to exist in her created psi gel-like body once Xavier forced her out. But there was no evidence of how long she can sustain that way and no evidence that she has tp attacking powers in that state.

If her neck is snapped she'll just try to then take over Palpatines mind and body. How do you think he would fare in a mental battle against her? It won't end well.

StiltmanFTW
You can't argue against h1math, it's infallible.

XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Honestly, there's only like 3-4 Star Wars characters that can actually hold a candle towards/defeat these levels of power, and Palpatine isn't it.

StiltmanFTW
Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
3-4

You just provided the numbers h1a8math needs to save the day!

3 - 4 = √∞ : 0 x 12 + 1 x 2 = Sidious wins

XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Agreed. Sidious probably uses h1a8math to summon The Ones, and they shitstomp Cassandra.

/thread

Galan007
Originally posted by Utrigita
With that said, I completely agree that Cassandra Nova stomps, that has never been in question. I just think Cassandra will win by turning Palpatines mind into mush. That seems to me as being her favorite way of attacking anyways. thumb up

StiltmanFTW
h1math will consume you too, Galan707007.

XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
What did you do to his name you son of a *****

StiltmanFTW
He's had it coming for a looong time.

Everyone is equal in the eyes of the Math Gods.

http://www.media1.hw-static.com/media/2016/06/jonathan-pryce-game-of-thrones-hbo-060216.jpg

Galan007
Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
What did you do to his name you son of a ***** He h1'd me. sad

h1a8
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
She has possessive powers in that state. She only been without a body once in comics. And she didn't possess anyone in that state. All she did was transfer her conscious into her rigged body. But that was with permission. Meaning, she couldn't transfer from a distance but had to touch the body.

So.
1. Transferring herself into a consciousless body doesn't mean she could possess someone with both a conscious and tp ability.

2. The body had to be given to her and she had to touch it.

3. She only was shown to swap minds with Xavier due to a shared psychic frequency. Who else did she swap minds (bodies) with?

XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Originally posted by Galan007
He h1'd me. sad

So he raped you, killed you, then committed necrophilia?

"Id"
Originally posted by h1a8
She only been without a body once in comics. And she didn't possess anyone in that state. All she did was transfer her conscious into her rigged body. But that was with permission. Meaning, she couldn't transfer from a distance but had to touch the body.

So.
1. Transferring herself into a consciousless body doesn't mean she could possess someone with both a conscious and tp ability.

2. The body had to be given to her and she had to touch it.

3. She only was shown to swap minds with Xavier due to a shared psychic frequency. Who else did she swap minds (bodies) with?
1) She has. She took over Betsy, who is also an Omega Telepath.

2) She overtook it with frighting ease.

3) in the car of Betsy she also showed the ability to manipulate Soul, and build a body from search instantly.

You can Hate me NOW!

h1a8
Originally posted by "Id"
1) She has. She took over Betsy, who is also an Omega Telepath.

2) She overtook it with frighting ease.

3) in the car of Betsy she also showed the ability to manipulate Soul, and build a body from search instantly.

You can Hate me NOW!

1. So you saying she swap minds with Psylocke or she merely mind controlled her? Although it was only stated in an interview that she is omega level. She never showed it.


2. Who is Soul? And build a body from what?


Basically you saying she swaps minds with someone other than Charles?
Or she merely controlled someone else?

Also without a body (especially Charles DNA body) has she swap minds, or even was able to use tp on someone?

krisblaze
Psylocke was listed as one of the top 5 telepaths in marvel or something, so it doesn't matter if she's omega or not.

"Id"
I dont know about an interview. But in the comics I can confirm at least once, that she is an Omega Level Telepath.

StiltmanFTW
Link, kris?

It was a pretty detailed interview with Remender himself, so it should count. Only obscure interviews are being ignored here, forum rules.

StiltmanFTW
Interview:

http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page=article&id=35905

"Id"

NewGuy01
Lol @ Skillz trying to cover Palpatine's ass here. He can't contend.

XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Honestly, there's only like 3-4 Star Wars characters that can actually hold a candle towards/defeat these levels of power, and Palpatine isn't it.

The **** did I do?

And BADA, I'm sorry, please show mercy on my weak soul. sad

StiltmanFTW
Better to die at Bada's hands than h1's, believe me.

Most of us won't be so lucky, I can already feel his math virus causing my internal organs to detoriarate rapidly.

XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
H1's virus has spread to me to such an extent that Bada is even deleting my non rule-breaking threads. sad

StiltmanFTW
Don't blame yourself, not your fault Mr Master and Abhimonster chose your thread to have some wild sex in.

XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=405188&pagenumber=2620#post15788863

I have failed you all.

krisblaze
Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Link, kris?

It was a pretty detailed interview with Remender himself, so it should count. Only obscure interviews are being ignored here, forum rules.

I'm thinking of the uncanny x-force comics.

StiltmanFTW
Originally posted by krisblaze
I'm thinking of the uncanny x-force comics.

Ah. You remember the story arc it was stated in?

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