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Which of the pre-Banite sith could beat Vader for a majority in Force, sabers, or all-out?

IMHO

Force: Exar Kun (possible), Vitiate
Sabers: Exar Kun (possible), Tulak Hord (possible)
All-out: Exar Kun (possible), Vitiate

I would put Freedon Nadd among the possible sith stronger than Vader. He was said to be stronger than Ragnos, someone that both Kressh and Sadow respected and feared

Force: Exar Kun, Vitiate, Marka Ragnos, Karness Muur, Freedon Nadd(possible).
Sabers: Exar Kun, Tulak Hord(possible), Ulic Qel-Droma(possible).
All-out: Exar Kun, Vitiate, Marka Ragnos, Karness Muur.

Originally posted by Total Warrior
I would put Freedon Nadd among the possible sith stronger than Vader. He was said to be stronger than Ragnos, someone that both Kressh and Sadow respected and feared
Source?

Anyone who can use lightning

Exar Kun, Marka Ragnos, Naga Sadow, Horak-Mul, Ludo Kressh, my dog, Ajunta Pall, Sorzus Syn, Darth Traya(I still believe she's 2000 years old), Ulic Qel-Droma and JKBart.

Originally posted by AncientPower
Force: Exar Kun, Vitiate, Marka Ragnos, Karness Muur, Freedon Nadd(possible).
Sabers: Exar Kun, Tulak Hord(possible), Ulic Qel-Droma(possible).
All-out: Exar Kun, Vitiate, Marka Ragnos, Karness Muur.


Yerp

Originally posted by Ziggystardust
Anyone who can use lightning No.

Originally posted by AncientPower
Source? Tbh I don't know the source of that statement because I read it for the first time in this forum in a thread a few months ago. Aniway, the line more or less said: " Nadd trained with Ragnos' spirit untill he became strong enough to defeat him, then in the following years he kept practicing in order to become more and more strong"

Aside from Vitiate, and Kun on a good day, none of them. I'm sure they where powerful enough in their own times, but they've got nothing to support them but legends by followers who perceive anything they do as godly, though I'm sure this thread will continue to prove the obvious that KMC cares more about opinions than actual facts.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Aside from Vitiate, and Kun on a good day, none of them. I'm sure they where powerful enough in their own times, but they've got nothing to support them but legends by followers who perceive anything they do as godly, though I'm sure this thread will continue to prove the obvious that KMC cares more about opinions than actual facts.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Aside from Vitiate, and Kun on a good day, none of them. I'm sure they where powerful enough in their own times, but they've got nothing to support them but legends by followers who perceive anything they do as godly, though I'm sure this thread will continue to prove the obvious that KMC cares more about opinions than actual facts.

This tbh. Exar Kun could win and Vitiate probably does, but arguments for other sith tend to be based on vague hype rather than any combo of feats or solid accolades.

I mean, it's not just a matter of exposure - if suit Vader has half of his former potential, that's still potential on the level of Sidious, and so by RotJ he should have far surpassed most of the ancients.

Other than Vitiate, no.

Originally posted by carthage
Other than Vitiate, no.

Sometimes I feel like arguing RotJ Vader > off nexus novel Vitiate depending on starting distance.

Meh, novel Vitiate+ absolutely murderstomps Vader without acknowledging his existence

Like how he killed Scourge with a gesture and easily detected and caught Meetra's saber throw without a nexus?

Both are probably better than Vader tbh.

Yeah, Vader isn't winning against Vit.

Vader couldn't even beat old Ben.

He can lift up big stuff with TK though

Force: Kun, Nihilus, Traya (Giga-drain possibility) Vitiate (if counted), Hord, Muur, Dread Masters, Jadus (possibly), Malgus (possibly), Nadd (possibly).

Also for people who are saying Muur can take him, should that extend to Ajunta Pall as well?

Originally posted by Nephthys
Force: Kun, Nihilus, Traya (Giga-drain possibility) Vitiate (if counted), Hord, Muur, Dread Masters, Jadus (possibly), Malgus (possibly), Nadd (possibly).

Also for people who are saying Muur can take him, should that extend to Ajunta Pall as well?

This.

Freshest, your advice is nice and all but it only applies when someone's particular bias is in play.

Vader did look awful against old Ben.

Originally posted by The Ellimist
Like how he killed Scourge with a gesture and easily detected and caught Meetra's saber throw without a nexus?
Do you understand the meaning of circumstances?

The novel makes it explicitly clear that Vitiate would have smoked them even with Revan in the picture in an actual fight. Lord Scourge experienced a very strong vision of this confrontation while he slept in the cave and the outcome was not pretty for him and his allies in it. Earlier, Lord Scourge felt confident that Revan could handle Vitiate after watching him destroying Darth Nyriss with barely an effort. However, his visions began to confuse him and he eventually balked.

You underestimate (novel) Vitiate way too much. He would utterly humiliate Darth Vader and more.

I have a lot of respect for Neph tbh, but Traya being on his list makes me want to drive a spike through my head.

Originally posted by The Ellimist
Like how he killed Scourge with a gesture and easily detected and caught Meetra's saber throw without a nexus?

You mean like how Sidious mind****ed Leia when she tried to judo throw him, or how he blew Vaders arms off, or levitated out of the shaft or killed Han Solo with a thought?

Originally posted by Emperordmb
I have a lot of respect for Neph tbh, but Traya being on his list makes me want to drive a spike through my head.

Giga-drain.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Aside from Vitiate, and Kun on a good day, none of them. I'm sure they where powerful enough in their own times, but they've got nothing to support them but legends by followers who perceive anything they do as godly, though I'm sure this thread will continue to prove the obvious that KMC cares more about opinions than actual facts.

👍👍👍👍

In other words, FEATS FEATS FEATS... BUT RUMORS WILL DO JUST FINE WHEN I NEED THEM TO

Don't we have a pretty direct comparison between Vader and Muur tho?

Not to my knowledge? I do recall Vader musing that joining Muur would just potentially be trading one Master for another.

But that's also Vader weeks after ROTS.

What made Vader say this? Did he just sense Muur's power or something?

Originally posted by MS Warehouse
This.

Freshest, your advice is nice and all but it only applies when someone's particular bias is in play.
You are, without a doubt, the fourth most biased person on this forum.

Murr > sidious confirmed.

Originally posted by Petrus
What made Vader say this? Did he just sense Muur's power or something?

It's in the comic where he finds Celeste Morne.

Edit: wrong thread

That wasn't peak Vader.

^^^

That wasn't peak Karness Muur either.

Based on what exactly?

Still, if we are to take Vader's interpretation of Muur's power as valid, that would mean he's at least > RotS Vader.

Vitiate is clearly above Vader. So is Revan, if we're counting him.

Kun and Ragnos should be around Vader's level.

Hord, Nadd, Sadow, Pall, and Muur should be slightly below.

Originally posted by Petrus
Still, if we are to take Vader's interpretation of Muur's power as valid, that would mean he's at least > RotS Vader.
No it doesn't. It's post RotS Vader. They aren't the same thing.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
No it doesn't. It's post RotS Vader. They aren't the same thing.

You're right. It means post-RotS Vader < Karness Muur.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
You are, without a doubt, the fourth most biased person on this forum.

Oh well since you said it it must be true. Then again, I wouldn't know who the 3 others ahead of me are

Karness Murr would be weaker than his physical self yes.

The difference is likely greater than Vader's improvements - which as I recall, were mainly lightsaber revisions.

Muur's spirt helping Morne was more than enough to overcome Krayt. Safe to say he's superior to Vader.

Originally posted by Petrus
You're right. It means post-RotS Vader < Karness Muur.

Seeing as how Skywalker is Vader for longer than he's Anakin, this tells us pretty much nothing about how Murr stacks against RotJ Vader.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Based on what exactly?
Karness Muur should be strongest in his original body. He deemed Celeste Morne as an inferior vessel.

Originally posted by The Ellimist
Seeing as how Skywalker is Vader for longer than he's Anakin, this tells us pretty much nothing about how Murr stacks against RotJ Vader.

Yeah, but that doesn't mean much in regards to my comments unless you think post-RotS Vader = RotJ Vader.

I said, if Vader's estimates on Muur's power are to be taken seriously, then Karness Muur > Post-RotS Vader .

Originally posted by Nephthys
Force: Kun, Nihilus, Traya (Giga-drain possibility) Vitiate (if counted), Hord, Muur, Dread Masters, Jadus (possibly), Malgus (possibly), Nadd (possibly).

Pure cancer.

DC, are you going to respond to me on CV?

Originally posted by MS Warehouse
Oh well since you said it it must be true. Then again, I wouldn't know who the 3 others ahead of me are
1. LeGend(duh)
2. Neph
3. Tempest

Though I originally had you as the seventh most biased. Fourth place is a tough position to keep, but I give credit where credit is due.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Karness Muur should be strongest in his original body. He deemed Celeste Morne as an inferior vessel.
Yeah, that doesn't make any sense whatsoever. Palpatine's clone bodies are inferior vessels. Therefore he's weaker in DE than he is in TPM.

I think Ant should be credited as more biased than me and Temp considering the hysterics he's gone into when someone questions Revan and the amount of effort he puts into championing him. Dude did literally go from my no1 fan to loathing me just because I said Zannah > Revan.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Yeah, that doesn't make any sense whatsoever. Palpatine's clone bodies are inferior vessels. Therefore he's weaker in DE than he is in TPM.

This would mean Ragnos-possessed Tavion = Ragnos himself... mmm

Yeah, if those situations were even remotely comparable. Ragnos was way more dead than Muur was.
Originally posted by Nephthys
I think Ant should be credited as more biased than me and Temp considering the hysterics he's gone into when someone questions Revan and the amount of effort he puts into championing him. Dude did literally go from my no1 fan to loathing me just because I said Zannah > Revan.
True enough, but Ant's bias is spread throughout more era instead of concentrating into one or two characters. He's basically the One Sith to you or Temp's Rule of Two.

Temp is smart though, which sort of makes it less palpable.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Tempest

lol

Originally posted by Nephthys
I think Ant should be credited as more biased than me and Temp considering the hysterics he's gone into when someone questions Revan and the amount of effort he puts into championing him. Dude did literally go from my no1 fan to loathing me just because I said Zannah > Revan.
http://cdn-img.health.com/sites/default/files/styles/main/public/to-much-salt-400x400.jpg

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
http://cdn-img.health.com/sites/default/files/styles/main/public/to-much-salt-400x400.jpg

Yes, you got very salty. It was kind of uncomfortable to watch tbh.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Yeah, if those situations were even remotely comparable. Ragnos was way more dead than Muur was.


Is 'way more dead' a thing now?

Neph, I won't deny that I get incredibly salty over things, but you were way more salty than me over that as it progressed.

Bringing it up isn't helping your case.

That's not to mention it was a while ago, and I've grown into a god. You've more or less stayed the same.

Yes get mad my child, your anger pleases me and now I'm going to fap to it while listening to Sheev's cackles in the background.

Originally posted by Emperordmb
Yes get mad my child, your anger pleases me and now I'm going to fap to it while listening to Sheev's cackles in the background.

^ This guy 👍

Originally posted by The_Tempest
lol
You're hella biased. The fact that you are secure in your position, or supported, doesn't make you less biased. Gideon would have known that. Gideon thinks Kas'im can take on Sidious and win.
Originally posted by Petrus
Is 'way more dead' a thing now?
It's always been a thing.

Any respect I had for DMB spam_laser

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
It's always been a thing.

In all seriousness though, how are those situations not comparable?

any respect i had for KMC spam_laser

So the list seems to be:

Vitiate
Exar Kun

And that's about it.

Nyriss spanks him.

Originally posted by Petrus
In all seriousness though, how are those situations not comparable?
Because Murr was alive in his talisman and Ragnos needed energy from all over the galaxy just to posses Tavion? They aren't comparable at all. Like in any way.

Originally posted by Ziggystardust
Any respect I had for DMB spam_laser
In case you couldn't tell I was mocking/imitating Temp's past behavior, not agreeing with him or sincerely meaning what I was saying lol

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Because Murr was alive in his talisman and Ragnos needed energy from all over the galaxy just to posses Tavion? They aren't comparable at all. Like in any way.

I thought Murr was dead and was a spirit like Ragnos, tbh. Fair enough.

Originally posted by Emperordmb
In case you couldn't tell I was mocking/imitating Temp's past behavior, not agreeing with him or sincerely meaning what I was saying lol

That you at last dare to mock me is good. You've been so ruthlessly insulted and disrespected for so long by so many that it's long past time you stand up for yourself. The banter can be fun.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
You're hella biased. The fact that you are secure in your position, or supported, doesn't make you less biased. Gideon would have known that. Gideon thinks Kas'im can take on Sidious and win.


Nonsense. Nonsense, I tell you.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
DC, are you going to respond to me on CV?
Yeah, in about an hour or two. I got some stuffs I must attend to atm.

All I know is Vader is pathetic and overrated.

The list is definitely longer than vitiate and kun

Originally posted by The_Tempest
Nonsense. Nonsense, I tell you.
Originally posted by Gideon

The Ancient Sith's mystique does make them appealing. To me, that's their purpose. They are the original Dark Lords, the guys who developed most of the dark side techniques. I understand that. I get that, in terms of numbers, this was the Sith at their finest.

Kun, Vitiate and Karness Muur for sure. After that it gets a little dicey.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice


You blaspheme the departed Gideon. Disgraceful.

Originally posted by Gideon
I'm not going to argue the parameters of a Force contest between Mace Windu and Exar Kun, as Windu was able to, when immersed in the dark depths of Vaapad, to fend off against a storm of Force lightning wielded by "the greatest master of evil ever to use Sith power" (confirmed in the Complete Visual Dictionary). However, I will also say that, like Sidious, Exar seems to outmatch Mace in the Force and that Sidious's lightning was repulsed only when Mace was immersed in Vaapad -- which according to the novelization, takes a bit of time. Should Kun pull off an amulet blast or whatnot before such an event, I could see him defeating Mace with the Force.

How precisely does one quantify a "master of evil?"

Originally posted by FreshestSlice


Stahhhp. Such cruelty. Such malcontent. What did Gideon ever do to warrant such vitriol?

This Gideon seems made up tbh.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
Stahhhp. Such cruelty. Such malcontent. What did Gideon ever do to warrant such vitriol?
He called me underwear. uhuh

Originally posted by The_Tempest
Stahhhp. Such cruelty. Such malcontent. What did Gideon ever do to warrant such vitriol?

What did Jesus?

Originally posted by Total Warrior
I would put Freedon Nadd among the possible sith stronger than Vader. He was said to be stronger than Ragnos, someone that both Kressh and Sadow respected and feared No he wasn't.

Source???

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Aside from Vitiate, and Kun on a good day, none of them. I'm sure they where powerful enough in their own times, but they've got nothing to support them but legends by followers who perceive anything they do as godly, though I'm sure this thread will continue to prove the obvious that KMC cares more about opinions than actual facts. Again with your bs.

Claims are valid sources of information sometimes.

Sometimes the claims that are made can put the person that the claims are made about above the person with a ton of feats.

Claims are only valid if Freshest agrees with them. If he doesn't, you're on his list. Watch out.

Originally posted by Jmanghan
Again with your bs.

Claims are valid sources of information sometimes.

Sometimes the claims that are made can put the person that the claims are made about above the person with a ton of feats.
Claims don't defeat actual showings, especially not ones as impressive as Vader's. Randoms in TOR can blow up cities, if claims are treated as fact. But they aren't, so no one gives a shit. Go in the corner, cry about it, and get over it.

https://sensuousamberville.files.wordpress.com/2012/07/hmmm.jpg

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Claims don't defeat actual showings, especially not ones as impressive as Vader's. Randoms in TOR can blow up cities, if claims are treated as fact. But they aren't, so no one gives a shit. Go in the corner, cry about it, and get over it.

When they claim stuff that has ACTUALLY happened, as opposed to saying "well, this person CAN do this".

When whats usually said is "Well, the ancients HAVE done this".

Which means they directly saw it happen.

By your logic, every single claim in the SW EU is not valid.

Spirit Muur was said to be stronger than Vector Vader by the Narrator. I would say Prime Muur>Prime Vader because of that since both at their weakest Muur>Vader.

Originally posted by MS Warehouse
Claims are only valid if Freshest agrees with them. If he doesn't, you're on his list. Watch out. I do hope this escalates.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Aside from Vitiate, and Kun on a good day, none of them. I'm sure they where powerful enough in their own times, but they've got nothing to support them but legends by followers who perceive anything they do as godly, though I'm sure this thread will continue to prove the obvious that KMC cares more about opinions than actual facts.

Originally posted by quanchi112
I do hope this escalates.

Knowing Freshest, it probably won't. Sad indeed.

Anyways, Hord, Ragnos, Kun, Vitiate, Muur, Nadd, and Sadow are either up to par or above, imo.

If this forum intends on surviving there needs to be angst and contempt for one another.

My latest sigs need to inspire more hatred.

People around here don't really care enough about wars vs trek.

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
People around here don't really care enough about wars vs trek. I may need to jump boards. Any suggestions where to strike the Wars fans ?

I would already ban 2 people if I could.

SD.net is prolly the best option.

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
SD.net is prolly the best option. Registration isn't open and they ban the pro Trek debaters.

Ah.

Well I can't think of any other boards that'd really care about wars vs trek. You'll have better luck with Khan.

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Ah.

Well I can't think of any other boards that'd really care about wars vs trek. You'll have better luck with Khan. Too bad that Wong poster wouldn't ever leave his forum.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Too bad that Wong poster wouldn't ever leave his forum.

Don't take this the wrong way but if you think you could put up a showing or measure up to Mike Wong in any capacity as a debater, or in any other intellectual endeavor for that matter, you're absolutely f*cking insane.

Originally posted by The Ellimist
Don't take this the wrong way but if you think you could put up a showing or measure up to Mike Wong in any capacity as a debater, or in any other intellectual endeavor for that matter, you're absolutely f*cking insane. He's a fanatic and I wish you'd see the error of your ways. Admission is the first step.

Originally posted by quanchi112
He's a fanatic and I wish you'd see the error of your ways. Admission is the first step.

He may be a "fanatic", but he's absolutely your superior as a debater, so you wouldn't really convince many people of Trek's superiority by attempting to argue with him.

Originally posted by The Ellimist
He may be a "fanatic", but he's absolutely your superior as a debater, so you wouldn't really convince many people of Trek's superiority by attempting to argue with him. Iyo but you have a bias for Star Wars so it isn't surprising.

Does Wong even debate anymore?

Originally posted by The Merchant
Does Wong even debate anymore? I bet his passion ran dry. Despicable. Quitter.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Iyo but you have a bias for Star Wars so it isn't surprising.

...wait, are you actually so delusional that you think you're as intelligent, articulate, well read or well reasoned as Wong? Have you tried reading your own sh*t, and then reading his, and concluding that you present more profound and robust opinions?

You honestly look exactly like those horrible auditioners on American Idol that everyone makes fun of.

Wong is one of the best Star Wars debaters of all time, kek.

Silver > Wong

only Kun with his amulets and Vitiate would have a solid majority over Vader.

Ragnos, Nadd, and possibly an incanation of Revan

Has Wong ever gotten into debates regarding the power of Jedi/Sith in the EU? I know he has calcs for Movie only feats like Qui Gon and Obi-wans speed feat actually being Supersonic+

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Silver > Wong

Nah. Granted, they tend to debate different things:

Originally posted by The Merchant
Has Wong ever gotten into debates regarding the power of Jedi/Sith in the EU? I know he has calcs for Movie only feats like Qui Gon and Obi-wans speed feat actually being Supersonic+

Not really. He's done crossover debates that have pitted Jedi/Sith vs. other fictional characters, but he never really got into the Star Wars "versus" community.

Originally posted by The Ellimist
...wait, are you actually so delusional that you think you're as intelligent, articulate, well read or well reasoned as Wong? Have you tried reading your own sh*t, and then reading his, and concluding that you present more profound and robust opinions?

You honestly look exactly like those horrible auditioners on American Idol that everyone makes fun of.

Wong is one of the best Star Wars debaters of all time, kek. He is a biased fanboy. I am not saying he isn't intelligent I'm saying his conclusions are biased.

And you're that sensitive guy who came back to complain because some mean old posters used to treat you poorly years ago.

Iyo but you're biased so I can see why you'd feel this way.

How are the things he's saying for the SW side bias? He quantifies the scenes that's all.

Originally posted by quanchi112
He is a biased fanboy. I am not saying he isn't intelligent I'm saying his conclusions are biased.


Nice ad hominem fallacy. Too bad you aren't capable of actually refuting any of his analysis, eh?



And you're the rather unintelligent guy who everyone makes fun of because you think repeating "common sense" and "nerd math" makes you sound smart, and that your bluff of not understanding the calculations you're mocking is totally being bought by everyone.

Originally posted by The Merchant
How are the things he's saying for the SW side bias? He quantifies the scenes that's all. Based off what official numbers ?

If we go by official sources extremely large turbolasers can crack the core of a planet. Downscale from that and even Light turbolasers can destroy countries tbh.

Originally posted by The Ellimist
Nice ad hominem fallacy. Too bad you aren't capable of actually refuting any of his analysis, eh?



And you're the rather unintelligent guy who everyone makes fun of because you think repeating "common sense" and "nerd math" makes you sound smart, and that your bluff of not understanding the calculations you're mocking is totally being bought by everyone. The onus is on him to prove it not me to disprove it. Debating 101.

Oh you're getting emotionally charged up. Wasn't going for that but that's your bias tugging at your heart strings. The calculations aren't proven. Tell me this do you believe the star destroyer can blow a planet away due to its raw power ?

Originally posted by The Merchant
If we go by official sources extremely large turbolasers can crack the core of a planet. Downscale from that and even Light turbolasers can destroy countries tbh. Can. Key word. How many shots.

Following without a doubt:

- Sith Emperor
- Darth Nihilus
- Exar Kun

Additional candidates (debatable category):

- Darth Malgus
- Darth Thanaton
- Darth Nox (with Force ghosts)
- Marka Ragnos
- The Emperor's Wrath II
- Karness Muur
- Darth Revan
- Naga Sadow
- Darth Jadus
- Darth Marr
- Tulak Hord
- Ajunta Pall

Possibly even more.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Additional candidates (debatable category):

- Darth Malgus
- Darth Thanaton
- The Emperor's Wrath II
- Darth Jadus
- Darth Marr


Possibly even more.

LOLOLOLOLOLOL

I love the way you kids verbally fellate other people. It's adorable.

I love the way those other people make up some of the most ridiculous arguments and opinions. It's like watching a kid calling gravity, magic.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Can. Key word. How many shots.

Given the size of the meteors they're capable of vaporizing one would assume a single shot would do massive damage to any settlements inhabiting said planet that was fired upon. Considering that these are the small turbo lasers that are capable of this feat..

Originally posted by Chosen_Sith
Given the size of the meteors they're capable of vaporizing one would assume a single shot would do massive damage to any settlements inhabiting said planet that was fired upon. Considering that these are the small turbo lasers that are capable of this feat.. Massive damage yes but the asteroids aren't near the size of earth. The asteroids also vaporize each other because it looks cool not because some nerd was cramming numbers and calcing the feats out in the editing room.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Massive damage yes but the asteroids aren't near the size of earth. The asteroids also vaporize each other because it looks cool not because some nerd was cramming numbers and calcing the feats out in the editing room.

An asteroid doesn't need to be earth sized to do enough damage to leave massive devastation. It doesn't matter if they did it to "look cool" the fact of the matter is that is the ships capable firepower with the small turbo lasers. It has enough firepower to vaporize large ship sized asteroids. It's only logical to assume the small turbo lasers have more power than large asteroids. This means, logically speaking, a barrage from the small turbo lasers would be like beating a planet with an asteroid field.

Except it is even more than that. When an asteroid enters a planet's atmosphere it begins burning up. Therefore, it loses a lot of it's mass, and power. In this case a turbo laser wouldn't. A barrage of small turbo laser fire would annihilate a country with capable ease. If not even more than a country. The large turbo lasers? We can only speculate the damage they'd do but by simple scale it would be apocalyptic at the very least.

Originally posted by Chosen_Sith
An asteroid doesn't need to be earth sized to do enough damage to leave massive devastation. It doesn't matter if they did it to "look cool" the fact of the matter is that is the ships capable firepower with the small turbo lasers. It has enough firepower to vaporize large ship sized asteroids. It's only logical to assume the small turbo lasers have more power than large asteroids. This means, logically speaking, a barrage from the small turbo lasers would be like beating a planet with an asteroid field.

Except it is even more than that. When an asteroid enters a planet's atmosphere it begins burning up. Therefore, it loses a lot of it's mass, and power. In this case a turbo laser wouldn't. A barrage of small turbo laser fire would annihilate a country with capable ease. If not even more than a country. The large turbo lasers? We can only speculate the damage they'd do but by simple scale it would be apocalyptic at the very least. Nothing the size of the destroyer. We see much smaller asteroid also destroy much smaller asteroids in the same manner as the lasers. How is it more logical when smaller asteroids crashing into each other have the same result as the lasers. That's the point. We don't know how many shots what kinds of devastation. I am sure those lasers would rip diaries apart but we don't know to what extent. An asteroid also obliterates structures located on the destroyer so it's the same kind of fictional obliteration. We as fans try to make sense of something the filmmakers just made to look cool with the special effects available at the time.

Point is this is entire speculatory which is what I tend to try to avoid basing claims off of.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Vitiate is clearly above Vader. So is Revan, if we're counting him.

Kun and Ragnos should be around Vader's level.

Hord, Nadd, Sadow, Pall, and Muur should be slightly below.

Originally posted by MS Warehouse
I love the way you kids verbally fellate other people. It's adorable.

Sick and disgusting.

Originally posted by Time-Immemorial
Sick and disgusting.

Originally posted by AncientPower


BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Originally posted by chingchangwalla
BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA ??

He laughed. Problem?

I figure Vader has several peers amongst the ancient DLOTS'. At the very least, such is implied by the council on Korriban reserving a seat for him in Dark Empire. From what we've seen of Karness Muur, Naga Sadow, Freedon Nadd, Exar Kun, and Darth Revan, it's not outside the realms of possibility that the likes of Marka Ragnos or Tulak Hord could have been Vader's betters.

Still, bar Vitiate, there shouldn't have been any Sith in the Old Republic era whose powers surpassed Vader's by any sizable amount.

@NewGuy01 - Of all the Ancient Sith, who do you have above Vader?

Originally posted by NewGuy01
I figure Vader has several peers amongst the ancient DLOTS'. At the very least, such is implied by the council on Korriban reserving a seat for him in Dark Empire. From what we've seen of Karness Muur, Naga Sadow, Freedon Nadd, Exar Kun, and Darth Revan, it's not outside the realms of possibility that the likes of Marka Ragnos or Tulak Hord could have been Vader's betters.

Still, bar Vitiate, there shouldn't have been any Sith in the Old Republic era whose powers surpassed Vader's by any sizable amount.

Is my answer. Because of how vague and unknown these characters are, it's impossible to say for sure if they're stronger or weaker than him, but I think that there are several that could be considered his peers. Karness Muur and Exar Kun are the most measurable examples.

Vitiate is the only one who is definitely above him.

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
He laughed. Problem? I want to fight him irl.

He'd beat your old obese ass

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
He'd beat your old obese ass I will cheat.

I imagine you've told yourself that many times in regards to your love life

People need to chill

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
I imagine you've told yourself that many times in regards to your love life A Quan's gotta do what a Quan's gotta do.

Originally posted by chingchangwalla
People need to chill Debating is war. You must choose!!

Choose Snoke.

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Choose Snoke. Snoke is better than Palpatine. I know the Palaptine enthusiasts are up at night sweating each and every night before episode 8.