Kenshiro vs Hit

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cdtm
Who wins?

The Merchant
Master Roshi in the 21st budokai was already a Moon buster with his full power KHH. Even if you want to argue only his Moon buster matters and in everything else he's weak Demon King Piccolo most definitely surpasses Kenshiro since nothing not even Roshis FP KHH could have done anything to a restored youth Demon King Piccolo and he had to resort to using the Mafuba a sealing tech to try and beat him. DKP is overkill against Kenshiro, Hit is like putting STTGL vs. an ant with Hit6 being STTGL in that comparison.

cdtm
But Kenshiro has Muso Tensei.

If you feel speed is an issue, he can start in that state.

The Merchant
All Musou Tensei is make a bunch of full body after images to confuse the opponent. Kaioh to defeat MT basically did a minor spacial distortion tech and he responded with "I found you!" when he saw all the after images being all wonky and managed to hit the real Kenshiro. An AOE attack should take care of him.

cdtm
Actually, it makes them intangible (In addition to tapping the skills of the dead).

Kenshiro and Roah passed right through each other in their fight.

The demon distortion was before Kenshiro perfected his skills via all the past Fist's..

The Merchant
It doesn't make them intangible. I've read the series and Raoh vs. Kenshiro made it appear for them to be intangible but Vs. Kaioh that's obviously not the case. It's shown MT was merely an after image tech of sorts. All Kaiohs space distortion did was make Kenshiro lose his balance and his ki could not be concentrated allowing Kaioh to determine his true location.

Kenshiro absorbed the knowledge of Hokuto Sokei allowing him to complete Hokuto shinken and giving him access to better tech to counter Ryuuken. MT and his other tech was already perfected, that's even the reason why Kenshiro beat Raoh. His MT was of true sadness while Raoh didn't fully go through with killing Yuria. Nothing Sokei showed can allow him to beat Demon King Piccolo however.

I did forget him being able to use the full martial arts of his past rivals but there's nothing that he can really use vs. Hit. Hit is immeasurablly MFTL levels of speed, time stop, and can destroy multiple universes with his power.

atv2
As much I am a DBZ fan, it got slow with the Super Series. Matches that Goku and gang should have won they end up losing. Now I'd give my props to Kenshiro, isn't a dull moment when he hits someone, when he hits sometime it gets me on the edge of my seat, wondering if who's going to explode. With the way things were going with DBS, I wouldn't care if Kenshiro used his Hokuto Shinken on Hit and made him explode 5 times over and the Ki he had left over could make everyone else around him feel the force and wake up DBS out of their sleep.

cdtm
Like you said, Kaioh's distortion made him lose his focus, which could be argued to "break" the technique.

But unless there's some other proof I'm missing, someone could as easily argue Logia use after image trickery, instead of being truely intangible.

The Merchant
I don't know anything about OP so I can't comment on how Logias and MT are similar. But in the Kaioh fight nothing about MT makes it seem like Kenshiro was intangible. Kenshiro IIRC says something about hiding his presence in "nothingness" then Kaioh responds by saying he'll destroy it. He uses Anryu Tenhaa which distorts the space surrounding Kenshiro making him lose his balance and his focus on his ki. When there were still multiple afterimages of Kenshiro Kaioh responds by saying "You're there!" then hitting the "real" Kenshiro when the after images were still around. Afterwards we never saw Musou Tensei or even mentioned again, rather Kenshiro found a new way to counter Anryu Tenha by making himself spin around until he found a footing in Anryu Tenha to make him regain his balance and afterwards he absorbs Hokuto Sokei which completes his Hokuto Shinken arts and gives him the ability to grow stronger as the fight progresses. I'll admit he does pull some intangibility esque karate chop against Kaioh but it's not Musou Tensei. It's some Hokuto Sokei move. Whether he could do that with his full body or not isn't capable of being proven.

KingD19
Logia aren't even a good example, as they aren't intangible. They simply become their element. So Aokiji(Ice) for example isn't intangible, he just shatters when you hit him because he's ice and immediately puts himself back together.

XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Hit can't destroy multiple universes at once with his power. erm

KingD19
Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Hit can't destroy multiple universes at once with his power. erm

Molecule Man doesn't have anything to do with this.

XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Yes he does smile

cdtm
http://i29.tinypic.com/2z9mn46.jpg

http://i25.tinypic.com/29p8dw1.jpg

Ken phases his hand right through Kaioh's guard, disrupting his hands. Not sure how anyone could argue this is anything but phase shifting/intangibility.




http://i25.tinypic.com/29fw7yg.jpg

http://i31.tinypic.com/288bocy.jpg

Ken's fist passes through Roah's body, and ends up damaged. Roah and Ken end up back to back, which you'd expect from phasing past one another (If Roah was using speed to blitz Ken, his positioning makes no sense.)

KingD19
None of this should matter. Hit can still jump through time, so even if their speed is equalized, he'd be able to hit him several times at a level high enough to seriously injure SSJB level fighters.

cdtm
Hit would pass through Kenshiro, just like Ken passed through Roah.

Also in the scans is proof Muso Tensei disrupts whatever it passes through, so Hit's more likely to hurt himself passing into Ken.

KingD19
Ken attacked Roah in real time though. Hit will be attacking Ken in the timeframe within a second, which is an area where his body can't react at all if Vegeta can't. He should still take the hit. And hahahaha at that technique actually hurting a guy on Hit's level. That's like thinking the Wolf Fang Fist would bother Goku.

Yamcha
Okay just here to state the Wolf Fang Fist is actually super cool okay >_>.

Also if this is a battle to see who's more skilled shouldn't speed/strength/durability be equal? So it comes down to their skills alone? Just my two cents.

Also again...the Wolf Fang Fist is awesome okay, it involves Wolves, and Fists, together...just had to clear the air on that one in case anyone was confused.

KingD19
Okay first off guy, I never said the WFF wasn't awesome. I just said it wouldn't bother Goku...from like, Saiyan Saga onward. Let's be honest with ourselves.

And if it's skills alone, then you have to clarify between martial arts ability, or skills as in techniques. Because that phase technique or whatever is as much a power as Hit's Time-Step. And any other of the nerve techniques.

RealityWarper
Kenshiro can copy and counter Hit's abilities.

The Muso Tensei completely makes this match unfair as Kenshiro can ignore every of Hit's attemps at attacking him.

carver9
Originally posted by KingD19
Okay first off guy, I never said the WFF wasn't awesome. I just said it wouldn't bother Goku...from like, Saiyan Saga onward. Let's be honest with ourselves.

And if it's skills alone, then you have to clarify between martial arts ability, or skills as in techniques. Because that phase technique or whatever is as much a power as Hit's Time-Step. And any other of the nerve techniques.

He was just playing. He's known as the person who back up Yamcha, even against Beerus.

Yamcha
Originally posted by KingD19
Okay first off guy, I never said the WFF wasn't awesome. I just said it wouldn't bother Goku...from like, Saiyan Saga onward. Let's be honest with ourselves. http://i65.tinypic.com/25k4tqf.jpg

KingD19
Fine, it wouldn't bother GOku if performed by Yamcha.

The Merchant
Kenshiro vs. Kaioh that weird karate chop wasn't Muso Tensei, that was a Hokuto Sokei move. Don't recall it's name.

The Merchant
Also Hit can destroy multiple Universes. Hit>SSJBlue Vegeta>SSjGod Goku and SSJGod Goku in his fight with Beerus nullified the third shockwave that was said to be capable of destroying all of Universe 7 with a punch.

SSJGGogeta
Hit one-shots everyone in the entire FOTNS series, and everyone(cdtm) that says otherwise is on crack.

I'm not even going to take the time to argue this, but if you think that Kenshiro could beat someone with universe+ level striking power, massively MFTL speed, and one-shot killing techniques that could threaten gods of destruction, then you're a complete and utter moron.

RealityWarper
Hit has nothing to counter the Muso Tensei.

Kenshiro can master all of Hit's techniques just by fighting him.

Hit isn't MFTL in combat... You can't translate a combat speed in terms of travel speed as that makes literally no sense.

Kenshiro's pressure-point techniques are far superior to Hit's and completely ignore his target's durability.

In short:

Kenshiro can copy every single of Hit's techniques and use them.
Hit has nothing to counter Kenshiro's Muso Tensei.
Kenshiro wins.

SSJGGogeta
Originally posted by RealityWarper
Hit has nothing to counter the Muso Tensei.

Kenshiro can master all of Hit's techniques just by fighting him.

Hit isn't MFTL in combat... You can't translate a combat speed in terms of travel speed as that makes literally no sense.

Kenshiro's pressure-point techniques are far superior to Hit's and completely ignore his target's durability.

In short:

Kenshiro can copy every single of Hit's techniques and use them.
Hit has nothing to counter Kenshiro's Muso Tensei.
Kenshiro wins.

Hit would kill Kenshiro with one attack before Kenshiro registered that the fight had begun. Hit can literally stop time, and even without that, fight on par with beings that casually fight and move at MFTL speeds.

"Combat =/= Travel Speed" doesn't equate to, "Combat speed < Travel Speed". In fact, no one even started making that argument until Beerus flew across hundreds of galaxies in seconds. Regardless, Beerus can move trillions of times FTL, and so can Goku. The fact of the matter is that they fight while flying at these speeds, and even greater. And Hit was able to blitz Goku. Someone like Kenshiro would literally be dead before the receptors in his brain fired off, in an attempt to make him launch an attack.

Kenshiro has never fought someone with multi-galaxy level durability. Show me one instance of him hurting someone as durable as Hit. Or even as durable as Krillin, for that matter.

In short:

You're an idiot; Hit >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> FOTNS

RealityWarper
Originally posted by SSJGGogeta
Hit would kill Kenshiro with one attack before Kenshiro registered that the fight had begun.


Based on ?



Which is a technique that was countered by a power-up making Goku faster.

Which is a technique that will be countered by Muso Tensei then copied and used by Kenshiro.





They fight at FTL speeds based on ?





There is no correlation between both and using both at the same time AKA running or flying while fighting doesn't makes faster when it comes to deal with a flurry of punches.





Travel speed.
Irrelevant.





Travel speed.
Irrelevant.

This thread begins to look like a Superman's thread with someone trying to use the travel speed as an argument for the combat speed despite there is no link between both.





Nice for him.





Based on ?

The Muso Tensei will prevent any attempts at harming Kenshiro.






Rofl.
I really those terms of "X level" because they aren't used by the writers.

Hit has no counters to Kenshiro's pressure-point techniques.

So far, Hit only showed a very mundane use of the pressure-points in combat which doesn't make him better than a Black Belt in Karate.

Kenshiro just need to touch Hit's pressure-points once and he is gone, which will happen very easily as Hit has no answer to the Muso Tensei.





Pointless.

The durability doesn't matter at all.

Kenshiro doesn't need to damage his opponent to destroy him from the insides.

One light touch and Hit's head explodes.





You failed to form a proper argument and relied on fan-made speculation.

Calling me an idiot will not make your argument better.

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