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You do know that Gotham solos JL like a piece of cake.
He will just be strong as it is needed to defeat Luthor and THE END.
Gotham is too much OP like Superman Prime.

Mazahs stomps.

Originally posted by Galan007
Mazahs stomps.
How ?

a.) I believe he starts at a higher level.
b.) He can simply absorb Gotham's power. His absorption capabilities are quite unbounded.

Originally posted by Galan007
a.) I believe he starts at a higher level.
b.) He can simply absorb Gotham's power. His absorption capabilities are quite unbounded.
Gotham can be as powerful as is needed to finish an opponent , no matter 'what' his opponents are. He literally one shotted JL. It was like a spite.

It's hard to be more powerful than your opponent... When you've been drained of said power.

Originally posted by Galan007
It's hard to be more powerful than your opponent... When you've been drained of said power.
Don't you think he will just KO him before he even tries to suck power ?

Not imo.

Mazahs was strong enough to one-shot Ultraman(who was still able to stalemate Black Adam moments prior), and could pulverize Nth Metal with a single strike. He also possessed the abilities of E3 Flash, Deathstorm, Bizarro, etc. etc.

And as we learned in JL: his ability to absorb additional power was seemingly unbounded. Powerful as he is, I don't really see how Gotham stands a chance here. Excluding the esoteric abilities at his disposal, Mazahs is at LEAST strong/fast enough to match Gotham long enough to absorb his power, me thinks. /shrug

Sigh.. when you drop a title and actual interesting stuff seems to star happen.

Originally posted by Galan007
Not imo.

Mazahs was strong enough to one-shot Ultraman(who was still able to stalemate Black Adam moments prior), and could pulverize Nth Metal with a single strike. He also possessed the abilities of E3 Flash, Deathstorm, Bizarro, etc. etc.

And as we learned in JL: his ability to absorb additional power was seemingly unbounded. Powerful as he is, I don't really see how Gotham stands a chance here. Excluding the esoteric abilities at his disposal, Mazahs is at LEAST strong/fast enough to match Gotham long enough to absorb his power, me thinks. /shrug

He absorbs by killing doesn't he.? So he'd have to kill Gotham in order to get his powers.

Originally posted by EcstaticGrace
He absorbs by killing doesn't he.? So he'd have to kill Gotham in order to get his powers. Nope.

Luthor's child, who was specifically stated to possess the exact same power of absorption as Luthor himself, was able to literally pull the power out of living beings as well. We saw this when he stole the God-powers back from the heroes, just by the word "MAZAHS!" being uttered.

Originally posted by Galan007
Nope.

Luthor's child, who was specifically stated to possess the exact same power of absorption as Luthor himself, was able to literally pull the power out of living beings as well. We saw this when he stole the God-powers back from the heroes, just by the word "MAZAHS!" being uttered.
Don't recall that scans?

Originally posted by EcstaticGrace
Don't recall that scans? http://i.imgur.com/SLuVPvC.jpg

noooo, in forever evil , Luthor didn't steal powers just by standing and saying MAZAHS. He grabbed them first and then killed them sucking the power. The fight is with Alexander Luthor, so still GOtham wins by knocking him out.

He killed them in the process because he wanted to kill them. And with all the powers he's absorbed, I don't see Gotham knocking him out as he's got powers stacked on powers. Like Firestorm, Bizarro, Mazahs(Shazam), etc... It should put him at a level beyond Gotham's ability to put down.

First off, it was never stated that Luthor *needed* to kill characters to absorb their powers. Yes, he killed those he drained, but I've always attributed that to him being a sadistic SOB. /shrug

Secondly, the child was explicitly stated to possess LUTHOR'S power of absorption:
http://i.imgur.com/zfmGk2q.jpg
"Like his father before him, he is able to absorb ALL energy."

That said, I see no reason why his child's abilities wouldn't be applicable to Luthor himself..? The only difference between them is that the baby needed an outside source to activate his absorption power(ergo "MAZAHS!", because it obviously could not speak or act for itself.

The absorption was done through Grail who was the mastermind of all AM-DS war. It doesn't give any support that Luthor can suck it just cuz he wanna. Even if he can suppose, Gotham will lower down his power levels to absorb and when Luthor will attack him, he will just raise it to 100x and SPLAT ! Gotham defeated Justice League as easy as pie. The stacked powers in Mazahs doesn't matter.
Gotham wins. Flawless victory.

Lol what? Nobody so far can stop the drain in any way. And Luthor takes all your powers. So Gotham gets drained plain and simple.

Also Luthor has literally tons of powers that Gotham has no answer to. Like transmutation. Or fire breath on Bizarro's level, etc...

Originally posted by bobbybatman
The absorption was done through Grail who was the mastermind of all AM-DS war. It doesn't give any support that Luthor can suck it just cuz he wanna. Even if he can suppose, Gotham will lower down his power levels to absorb and when Luthor will attack him, he will just raise it to 100x and SPLAT ! Gotham defeated Justice League as easy as pie. The stacked powers in Mazahs doesn't matter.
Gotham wins. Flawless victory. It was also done through Superwoman. Like Grail, all she had to do is point the baby toward the target, shout "MAZAHS!", and *poof* the character(s) were entirely drained (see the previous scans I posted.)

I see absolutely NO reason to assume that Gotham could resist the drain at all. Again: Luthor's ability to absorb energy is nigh-unbounded. If it could be used to absorb the power of the New Gods, it can definitely be used to absorb the power of Gotham. Additionally, we know Gotham's ability to become more powerful than most opponents is certainly a power Luthor would want -- ergo draining is something he'd do right out of the gate.

Mazahs shouldn't have a problem here..


after all we haven't seen enough of what Gotham can do

The draining power matters ? The scan that you showed is Grail doing it after she killed Lois. For god's sake, she turned baby into darkseid and was using him in her powers. Its not all directly inherited from father. Grail also used Trevor, so.
It is said Gotham can be strong as it is needed to defeat an opponent no matter what he is. Lets take it step by step.
Superman : Infinite power, lost.
Wonder Woman : Magic+Almost Superman, lost.
Flash : Superspeed, lost.
Two GLs , Aquaman, Cyborg : lost.
and he did at the same time.
His superpower is the ability to get at that level needed to defeat the opponents. It doesn't matter if opponent can drain or mirror . Its simple victory, one way.
Alexander Luthor can't beat Doomsday or Darkseid cuz their powers are abstract. Not all powers can be drained. You can't drain Antimonitor, Spectre and the likes of Swamp Thing. Its like saying Rogue will defeat Anti-Monitor and all she needed is a touch lol.

Originally posted by Galan007
It was also done through Superwoman. Like Grail, all she had to do is point the baby toward the target, shout "MAZAHS!", and *poof* the character(s) were entirely drained (see the previous scans I posted.)

I see absolutely NO reason to assume that Gotham could resist the drain at all. Again: Luthor's ability to absorb energy is nigh-unbounded. If it could be used to absorb the power of the New Gods, it can definitely be used to absorb the power of Gotham. Additionally, we know Gotham's ability to become more powerful than most opponents is certainly a power Luthor would want -- ergo draining is something he'd do right out of the gate. So, he absorbed Anti-Monitor in the finale ? And we are talking Luthor here right. If you are directly relating baby to Luthor I mean in powers, then CSA should have said that the ultimate secret of revenge for the annihilation is Luthor himself and not the baby ?

http://i.imgur.com/SLuVPvCh.jpg


^ That is Superwoman, not Grail. #DontchaHateFacts


Anywho, Luthor's power explicitly enabled him to absorb ALL energy. So unless you think Gotham contains no energy(lol), then he'd get drained just like the God-heroes did.

Originally posted by bobbybatman
So, he absorbed Anti-Monitor in the finale ? And we are talking Luthor here right. If you are directly relating baby to Luthor I mean in powers, then CSA should have said that the ultimate secret of revenge for the annihilation is Luthor himself and not the baby ? The child wasn't born when AM was doing his thing, lol. Had AM been around, there is no question that the baby could have absorbed his power.

Luthor was dead. Ergo the child(who possessed his power) WAS the 'secret of revenge'.

I know who is who. But I think it was the power of that baby only, draining of 'Gods' I mean. If Luthor can drain God power, then he could have saved his earth 2 , no ? Or he was held captive by dumb Ultraman ! Anti-monitor destroyed earth2 right .

Originally posted by bobbybatman
I know who is who. But I think it was the power of that baby only, draining of 'Gods' I mean. If Luthor can drain God power, then he could have saved his earth 2 , no ? Or he was held captive by dumb Ultraman ! Anti-monitor destroyed earth2 right . I can only assume Luthor was being held captive at that point, as Superwoman certainly implied that there was no reason to run with Luthor's power at their disposal. And based on the baby's feats, AM's power(inc. the ALE) would have been easily absorbed.

As as the scan explicitly states: his power is not limited to absorbing God-power... But rather, "ALL energy".

And that future rod was the weapon to end him. Interesting.
They killed Gotham already, still his sister has the same powers . Lets see what can she do. But I will say : STALEMATE.

^ The super-lightning rod + explicit weakness-exploitation by mainstream Lex(which Gotham obviously cannot duplicate), is what beat Mazahs. Please don't ignore the facts.

Tbh, the only way this can be viewed as a stalemate is if you entirely ignore Luthor's powerset.

Originally posted by Galan007
^ The super-lightning rod + explicit weakness-exploitation by mainstream Lex(which Gotham obviously cannot duplicate), is what beat Mazahs. Please don't ignore the facts.

Tbh, the only way this can be viewed as a stalemate is if you entirely ignore Luthor's powerset.
Ignoring the facts ? No. I go by logic.
He fought JL first time and defeated them. Unaware of them and ways to beat them . He went straight beating them one after the other. Thing is : he is a complete package , not magical or physical but he will just 'have' what is needed to defeat opponents. In that way, I said stalemate.
He will just get the rod and end him , simple. The rod would be somewhere where he will travel or just summon it in his hands . The minimum power needed to finish off an opponent , no matter who . Lets just wait and see in Batman #6. Ok, now Gotham wins considering the facts about both. I am gonna reply after next issue. Please read my ^ comment carefully btw

Originally posted by Galan007
http://i.imgur.com/SLuVPvCh.jpg


^ That is Superwoman, not Grail. #DontchaHateFacts


Anywho, Luthor's power explicitly enabled him to absorb ALL energy. So unless you think Gotham contains no energy(lol), then he'd get drained just like the God-heroes did.

I don't remember Alexander taking powers away like that is the problem sure we see the Baby do it but just cause their both power absorbers doesn't mean they do it in the exact same way.

Even given the Baby is a Hybrid and on top of that apparently Darkseid.

Weird, I thought it said explicitly that Mazahs had to kill his opponent to get their power. Whatever, if he can just absorb it mentally he wins.

Originally posted by Khazra Reborn
Weird, I thought it said explicitly that Mazahs had to kill his opponent to get their power. Whatever, if he can just absorb it mentally he wins.

That's my same thought process. All the scan provided suggest is that the Baby and Mazahs are both absorbers it doesn't state that they do it exactly the same way though.

It's more questionable given Alexander never used his powers in that way and given he knew who Deathstorm was but didn't get his powers until he killed him makes it more questionable.

Originally posted by EcstaticGrace
I don't remember Alexander taking powers away like that is the problem sure we see the Baby do it but just cause their both power absorbers doesn't mean they do it in the exact same way. It was stated that the child inherited the ability to absorb ALL energy from his father. IOW, the baby's ability to drain energy in that manner came from Luthor -- thus it is something that should obviously be within his powerset, imo.

Originally posted by EcstaticGrace
and on top of that apparently Darkseid. The baby was only transformed into Darkseid by Grail, after she used him to absorb most of the New God power(including that of the ALE and Omega Effect.) That has absolutely nothing with its ability to absorb energy -- Superwoman TOLD US where that ability came from.

Originally posted by EcstaticGrace
It's more questionable given Alexander never used his powers in that way and given he knew who Deathstorm was but didn't get his powers until he killed him makes it more questionable. Yes, Alex killed everyone he absorbed. However, it was never explicitly stated that he *needed* to kill to absorb. Again, he was a sadistic SOB -- that's why I presume he killed the people he drained. /shrug

Tbh, I think Johns used the baby as a segway to flesh-out Alex's abilities. That's why so much emphasis was placed on the baby inheriting its father's abilities and whatnot.




But again: when we consider the power(s) at his disposal, I still believe Alex is just more powerful than Gotham overall... Even if we remove his absorption ability from the equation.

The baby was a hybrid, Superwoman is not just some normal woman. She is on Wonder Woman's level. You can't just compare the baby here. This is father vs Gotham , not baby vs Gotham. This is ridiculous. Its okay , he inherited but from both , not just his father. Sucking mentally is NOT in his powerset. If it would be, mazahs would have become the Ultimate God of his own Universe by sucking all the energy sitting in toilet. Please.

I would agree with your 'hybrid' theory, had Superwoman not explicitly stated that the baby inherited its absorption power directly from Alex... Hell, the same word(ie. "Mazahs!" was even used to activate both their powers, ffs. If that doesn't make it clear their abilities were intended to be identical, I don't know what will. srsly

So what you mean is Superwoman genes cannot be inherited by her own child ? And that she 'declaring' that he inherited those powers from his father concludes that Luthor can manually sucks 'all energy'. Children naturally inherits their parents' characteristics . And here you are generating father's characteristics from child. You can't apply reverse engineering here.

I don't see any thing to discuss anymore.

What she stated in scan is an obvious thing . Baby IS a hybrid. Superwoman is not a test tube to carry a baby. Powersets are clearly different of father and son. And about the word 'mazahs', obviously it would be the same. Its straightforward, scans and statements are not even needed to prove this.

It clearly refered to the baby having the SAME powers as his father. Could the baby have other powers inherited from him mother? Sure. But they specifically were talking about what he inherited from his father and directly compared the two having the same power. She didn't care what the baby inherited from her, no one did. They cared what he gained from his father which is far more powerful then what he would have gained from superwoman

Forever evil and darkseid war was written by the same author and showed his intent for luthors powers. It's clear what the intent was, but you don't seem to like it

Glad to see common sense + basic reading comprehension aren't lost on everyone.

You don't counter the main points but just stick to your opinion. If can't counter properly and out of points, then it would be better to zip your 'not so common' sense + "super comprehensive'' mind instead of personal insults. So much for a debate . Forced sarcasm is

1. It's more questionable given Alexander never used his powers in that way and given he knew who Deathstorm was but didn't get his powers until he killed him makes it more questionable.

2. Sucking mentally is NOT in his powerset. If it would be, mazahs would have become the Ultimate God of his own Universe by sucking all the energy sitting in toilet.

3. He fought JL first time and defeated them. Unaware of them and ways to beat them . He went straight beating them one after the other. Thing is : he is a complete package , not magical or physical but he will just 'have' what is needed to defeat opponents. He will just get the rod and end him , simple. The rod would be somewhere where he will travel or just summon it in his hands . The minimum power needed to finish off an opponent , no matter who .

Gotham wins.

a.) For all we know, Alex never directly interacted with Deathstorm until that one scene in the final issue of FE. You're acting like we have all this backstory on Earth-3 and the CSA -- we don't, lol.

b.) No one said that Alex can sit in some remote location and mentally absorb any hero's power he wants. However, he CAN drain the energy from beings in his vicinity. Simple.

c.) So now Gotham is going to beat Alex by pulling a specialized lightning rod out of his ass and then perfectly mimicking Luthor's voice to call down the lightning of Mazahs? Lol, you're obviously just trolling.


At this point you're just childishly ignoring evidence because you clearly want Gotham to win here. It's cute. Thing is, you're 'points' literally make no sense at all. Take a deep breath and stop throwing a hissy fit.

I would also like to point out this scene:
http://i.imgur.com/nMFTl3Sm.jpg http://i.imgur.com/CvZo8ZLm.jpg

First scan: Alex pummels Bizarro and delivers a fatal blow before leaving.
Second scan: we see that Bizarro is still alive(albeit barely.)

A few pages later Alex uses ice vision and heat breath, so we know he MUST HAVE absorbed Bizarro's powers in the first scan(he *did* say that he wanted Bizarro's powers, after all)... Which means that he DIDN'T kill Bizarro before he drained him... Which means that he DOESN'T have to kill his opponent before absorbing their power.

So again: Alex did not *have* to kill a character to drain their energy. Like we have been saying all along: he killed those he absorbed because he was a sadistic/brutal motherf*cker -- but killing was obviously not a prerequisite for absorbing.

= yet another reason why his child's feats should be perfectly applicable to Alex himself.

Gotham wins.

Legit lol'd.

That dude thinks Gotham is like the Fury or something. Gotham definitely has limits.

Limits are unknown, because we still don't know what Gotham Girl's powers are. We'll know what she's capable of in a few issues.

Well he must have limits to some extent. Isnt he dead?

Originally posted by tkitna
Well he must have limits to some extent. Isnt he dead?

Of course he has limits. But you posted a scan of Gotham Girl defeating Gotham and we don't know the context to that. Supposedly, she has some awesome abilities that will be revealed in the next few issues.

I don't think its a big mystery. He burnt himself out. Hence, having limits.

His threshold is pretty high, seeing as he took out the JLA. Definitely above top tier, IMO. Tom King hinted that it may be more to his defeat, so we'll see in the coming weeks.

Originally posted by bobbybatman
Gotham can be as powerful as is needed to finish an opponent , no matter 'what' his opponents are. He literally one shotted JL. It was like a spite.

I see. So Galactus vs Gotham, what happens?

Originally posted by Surtur
I see. So Galactus vs Gotham, what happens?

Thats what i'm saying too. Are we to believe that Gotham has the 'Minimum' power to take out somebody like the Spectre or the LT for cripes sake because thats what some people seem to be suggesting? Gotham Girl said that they can have the power of a God briefly, but heck Thors a God. The JL feat was neat, but it wasnt all that. I guess we'll have to wait and see what Gotham Girl can do (as the great Gotham is indisposed already). If she starts beating people like Mr. Mxyzptlk then i'll be forced to change my opinion. Until then,,,,meh.

Originally posted by tkitna
Thats what i'm saying too. Are we to believe that Gotham has the 'Minimum' power to take out somebody like the Spectre or the LT for cripes sake because thats what some people seem to be suggesting? Gotham Girl said that they can have the power of a God briefly, but heck Thors a God. The JL feat was neat, but it wasnt all that. I guess we'll have to wait and see what Gotham Girl can do (as the great Gotham is indisposed already). If she starts beating people like Mr. Mxyzptlk then i'll be forced to change my opinion. Until then,,,,meh.

We're not talking about those types of characters.