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I've been reading on a youtube video thread about how vastly powerful he man's powers are with his sword and battle ax and how vast his strength is as well, seeing a pic of him pushing a moon out of it's orbit and back again with his bare hands, and how he is pretty much as powerful as he needs to be.

So I put him up against basic level Thor with mjolnir of course and all the abilities that it gives him. Fight takes place on eternia. Who wins and why?

He-man wins because he is basically a Superman with magic. What Constantine is to Batman is what He-man is to Superman. Except that He-man is also on par with PC Supes physically. Thor can't win. Not enough firepower to KO.

He-Man fights guys like Beast Man, while Thor fights guys like Hulk ...Just take an average from both their rouges gallery and do the math.

Thor will find a way to get himself ko'd.

Originally posted by CosmicComet
Thor will find a way to get himself ko'd. He may not have to if He Man is all that some say that he is.

thor would win with his hammer, but he-man is powerful. digi does a GREAT job of showcasing him in this BZ. it is a composite version though, using all his best feats across media so not a clear example of what any ONE version could do. instead, it's the best of ALL worlds. still, should give you a pretty good idea of where he is powerwise. low herald is pretty accurate imo.

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/f105/t600780.html

Originally posted by leonidas
thor would win with his hammer, but he-man is powerful. digi does a GREAT job of showcasing him in this BZ. it is a composite version though, using all his best feats across media so not a clear example of what any ONE version could do. instead, it's the best of ALL worlds. still, should give you a pretty good idea of where he is powerwise. low herald is pretty accurate imo.

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/f105/t600780.html Low herald you say?...........not according to this video analysis.

https://youtu.be/kfrOaNxqlpQ

meh, i've seen ALL of those feats. the first superman fight was pre-crisis and not much of anything anyway. the stabbed superman of course wasn't the real superman, so it's a meaningless fight. believe what you'd like of course, but digi knows him really well, and if he is confident low herald is where he should be, then i'm confident as well. from what i've seen, it's pretty accurate though i think a case could be made for lower end mid herald.

Bump.

Lol...that isn't a bump.

A case could be made for mid, yes. However, he lacks mobility, his rogues gallery is pathetic, and he's occasionally had issues with low durability showings relative to his other feats. And the PC Supes fight is a complete non-feat for either one. He-Man has some utter cheese feats to stand alongside any ridiculous PC character. But on the whole, he's where he belongs in the tiers. With a possible few exceptions, The mid tier on this forum would mop the floor with him.

With Mjolnir, Thor wins. Much as I love Adam, it's not really a debate in my mind.

Originally posted by Digi
A case could be made for mid, yes. However, he lacks mobility, his rogues gallery is pathetic, and he's occasionally had issues with low durability showings relative to his other feats. And the PC Supes fight is a complete non-feat for either one. He-Man has some utter cheese feats to stand alongside any ridiculous PC character. But on the whole, he's where he belongs in the tiers. With a possible few exceptions, The mid tier on this forum would mop the floor with him.

With Mjolnir, Thor wins. Much as I love Adam, it's not really a debate in my mind.

How much would you give Thor over H Man? They need to do a complete crossover and put him in DC so that he can fellowship with the JLA and fight some baddies.

Originally posted by carver9
How much would you give Thor over H Man? They need to do a complete crossover and put him in DC so that he can fellowship with the JLA and fight some baddies.

If Thor doesn't fight dumb, 10/10. Even if he does, probably a split. He could KO Adam, but might get stabbed too many times.

People forget that Thor's best feats aren't any less ridiculous. He just has more consistency and appearances to back them up.

Granted, if they fought in a comic, who knows. But based on feats, history, powers, etc., yeah, Thor wins.

He-Man has one thing Thor does not, legit higher end super-speed.

So does Thor. You know, going ftl on multiple occasions. Thor wins and its not close imo. He can do to many things with Mjolnir that neither Supes or Adam can do. Thors rogue gallery destroys Adams. Thor has hurt and beaten to many beings that are way past trans to lose to He-man.

Thor rides away on Battle-cat getting brain from Sheera 6/10

Thor has low meta speed.

Around Spiderman or Wolverine level.

Travelling FTL in the vastness of space is a god damn trope and rarely applicable to reflexes.

Originally posted by CosmicComet
Thor has low meta speed.

Around Spiderman or Wolverine level.

Travelling FTL in the vastness of space is a god damn trope and rarely applicable to reflexes.

Agreed. Vulcan traveled through space far faster than light and had trouble stopping a bullet.

@Shadowfyre, I agree with most of what you said based on feats and such, but I could see an argument being formed to inquire about exactly how powerful He-Man's rogues were, in comparison to existing canon, albeit from another company. Such as Marvel, and DC?

His canon after all does revolve around him being from an entirely different reality than 616, which by chance includes all of the divergent Earth's that exist in DC canon. Beast Man on Earth may be just as strong as the Juggernaut. He Man has certainly exceeded Cain's top strength feat by miles. He Man was able to push a moon, while it took Cain, years to escape a Citadel approaching the size of Mount Fuji. I think most would agree that He-Man is the stronger of the two. Then again, we could be looking at the same thing and come out with two different views. Just wanted to put that out there.

Thor would have his hands full IMO.

Oh. and before I forget, her name is Tila. I mean He Man's Lois Lane.

Agreed, HM is stronger. It's just one stat, but it's really hard to beat Adam on pure strength. But if we're going to fixate on the moon feat, which is ~30 years old and written by a team of writers that were apparently high all the time, let's compare it to, say, the Midgard Serpent, which is equally shitgoose crazy. It just wasn't animated like a toddler's fever dream, so it doesn't seem outlandish.

Originally posted by Digi
Agreed, HM is stronger. It's just one stat, but it's really hard to beat Adam on pure strength. But if we're going to fixate on the moon feat, which is ~30 years old and written by a team of writers that were apparently high all the time, let's compare it to, say, the Midgard Serpent, which is equally shitgoose crazy. It just wasn't animated like a toddler's fever dream, so it doesn't seem outlandish.

Agreed. but it is still all canon to the character, because nothing was said to have changed the myth surrounding the Eternians. All of the characters are still in a struggle to protect the universe from dangers. Skeletor, Evil Lynne (or however it's spelled. They never as much had to revamp the story. They really just reintroduced them over again.

Strength means a lot in this case, because He-Man would get into combat range with Thor. Thor fights a certain way, and has fought that way since forever. He may win, but he's taking some heat. I could actually see Adam winning TBH.

i just can't really take this feat very seriously i'm afraid:

http://www.therobotsvoice.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/jacob_widgets.jpg

i mean, come on! lol if anything it's more a feat of that little jet thing! and obviously it isn't really all THAT big....

i dunno man, it's just too silly for me to take without a large chunk of salt. he has other huge feats that i place more stalk in than that one. moving a mountain and throwing greyskull are way out there too and for some reason a little easier to digest imo. it is possible he's stronger than thor, but i think strength differences would be minor. thor is just too versatile imo.

@Leo. In more recent Cartoons, He-Man was able to easily lift huge objects as well. His sheer athleticism, and his sword of power would allow for him to create opportunities to close the gap. I can't completely buy the versatility train of thought, because time is always an issue when arguing characters of this speed range. As a character, Thor doesn't automatically whip out his entire light show. It could be because he doesn't think extremely fast on his feet, or the other character is a moving target, or a combination of both. Slower people than He-Man have tagged him. Thor has an enchanted hammer, He-Man has an enchanted sword. I'm not saying that He-Man would win, but I'm saying that he could win.

Originally posted by carver9
Lol...that isn't a bump. It's not a hump either........Lol.

Originally posted by Stoic
I'm not saying that He-Man would win, but I'm saying that he could win.

ah, ok. yeah, i can get behind that. i would disagree with digi when he said thor wins 10/10 as well. i'd say adam could take a couple for sure.

I did say closer to a split if he fights dumb. I understand Adam could get some wins. It's just Thor's fight to lose.

Originally posted by lawest9
It's not a hump either........Lol.

Originally posted by leonidas
i just can't really take this feat very seriously i'm afraid:

http://www.therobotsvoice.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/jacob_widgets.jpg

i mean, come on! lol if anything it's more a feat of that little jet thing! and obviously it isn't really all THAT big....

i dunno man, it's just too silly for me to take without a large chunk of salt. he has other huge feats that i place more stalk in than that one. moving a mountain and throwing greyskull are way out there too and for some reason a little easier to digest imo. it is possible he's stronger than thor, but i think strength differences would be minor. thor is just too versatile imo.

The 80s finds your lack of faith disturbing.

then the 80s and i are on even ground. lol

🎃🎃🎃🎃😄🎃😄😄🎃😄😄

Why is He man stronger? Thor has moved midgard serpent and world engine and ygfdrasil. He has broken planetoids as a side effect of him hitting gor. His feats are far beyond Adams. Yall are just a buncha Thor haters. Thor wins.

thor haters? lol

-The Midgard Serpent feat is pretty much debunked entirely in my opinion. It's not a straightforward strength feat as normally presented.

It's not like Thor pulled off a planet sized serpent, the serpent was literally no bigger than a tree relative to Thor in the whole scene. What with the serpent being baited with a cow no bigger than its own head...and tied to a tree later. :/

-The World Engine feat is unquantifiable.

-His collateral damage against Gorr was a great feat, but its a power feat for Mjolnir. No way his fists would have done that kind of damage.


If Thor has other feats that's fine. But He-Man pushing a moon at the speed he did is elite.

Originally posted by ShadowFyre
Why is He man stronger? Thor has moved midgard serpent and world engine and ygfdrasil. He has broken planetoids as a side effect of him hitting gor. His feats are far beyond Adams. Yall are just a buncha Thor haters. Thor wins.

It has to do with how Adam's strength works. It's somewhat like Hulk in that it's variable. But instead of being from anger, it's an external source. He draws his power from Castle Greyskull, which is a multiversal nexus and possesses feats both direct and implied that justify that description. He-Man's power that he draws from the Castle scales based upon need.

Is it a plot device? Hell yes. A lazy one, at that. The 80's didn't try too hard. But it was a convenient excuse to have him push a moon one episode, and struggle against Beast Man in the next.

So the feat comparison puts them in the same general area, yes. But the short answer is that HM is always going to be stronger than anyone short of abstract or others employing similar means that threaten the no-limits fallacy (see: Hulk's upper limits, etc.).

Originally posted by leonidas
thor haters? lol

I smiled too. He's like my #1 go-to character in tourneys at that level. I think I've used him in BZs or tourneys at least twice, and maybe three times.

Originally posted by CosmicComet
-The Midgard Serpent feat is pretty much debunked entirely in my opinion. It's not a straightforward strength feat as normally presented.

It's not like Thor pulled off a planet sized serpent, the serpent was literally no bigger than a tree relative to Thor in the whole scene. What with the serpent being baited with a cow no bigger than its own head...and tied to a tree later. :/

-The World Engine feat is unquantifiable.

-His collateral damage against Gorr was a great feat, but its a power feat for Mjolnir. No way his fists would have done that kind of damage.


If Thor has other feats that's fine. But He-Man pushing a moon at the speed he did is elite.
Midgard Serpent feat is still impressive in any way u want to view it.
WE feat though unquantifiable is bananas when you consider the implications.
Obviously Mjolnir contributed to the planets shattering. But consider this. Who is providing that torque?

You are down playing Thor feats, but touting the moon feat though impressive, is so out there itself. I mean come on. Look at leo's scan.

He-Man, wins due to his using less hair care products than the Blonde whore, Thor!

Brooklyn is overrated













And the Nets suck

Originally posted by celeyhyga17
Brooklyn is overrated













And the Nets suck

Why do you choose to die?!!!!

Originally posted by celeyhyga17
Midgard Serpent feat is still impressive in any way u want to view it.

If Spiderman flipped a tree sized snake, I'd be impressed, I guess.




The implications, sure, but its not like he was dragging the 9 worlds.

He was pushing back against machinery.




Too bad Mjolnir is it's own power source and is not just a super durable hammer that's being swung by Thor.

If Thor dropped Mjolnir and just locked his fists together and started throwing Captain Kirk hammerfists at Gorr, the torque would still be there, but would it cause anywhere close to that collateral damage?

Highly unlikely. Seeing as it was supposed to be impressive when Gorr was tossing some small chunks of a moon at them in the same fight. That's a physical feat, and nowhere near as impressive as Mjolnir's collateral damage.

Sorry, but Mjolnir absolute muddies the waters for the feat.



*Screenshot, not scan.

And what about it? What did Leo show or do that was supposed to be negate the feat?

The art is bad, but we see He-Man push two of Eternia's moons back in place in that episode, and they are both more than large enough to significantly affect the tides of the whole planet.

We also see the moons behind the planet from a low-space/upper atmosphere view near the end of the episode and, well, they are moon sized as would be expected.

20:26.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2mjbXAc5wEo

He-Man pushed two moon sized moons at high-hypersonic to low relativistic speeds. It didn't take him a lot of effort either.

by the power of gray skull
*lightning and thunderstorm outta nowhere *
I
HAVE
THE
PAAAWAAAAAARRRRRRR

Originally posted by CosmicComet
If Spiderman flipped a tree sized snake, I'd be impressed, I guess.

The implications, sure, but its not like he was dragging the 9 worlds.

He was pushing back against machinery.

Then ure throwing out the fact that the Midgard Serpent itself is an extremely powerful creature. Plus we have to consider all that planetary disturbance the Serpent was causing. It wasn't as simple as flipping a tree sized snake.

He pushed against the "will" of Yggdrasil. It's a cosmological centerpiece that governs their pantheon for crying out loud.

Pushing back against machinery? Lol.

Originally posted by CosmicComet

Too bad Mjolnir is it's own power source and is not just a super durable hammer that's being swung by Thor.

If Thor dropped Mjolnir and just locked his fists together and started throwing Captain Kirk hammerfists at Gorr, the torque would still be there, but would it cause anywhere close to that collateral damage?

Highly unlikely. Seeing as it was supposed to be impressive when Gorr was tossing some small chunks of a moon at them in the same fight. That's a physical feat, and nowhere near as impressive as Mjolnir's collateral damage.

Sorry, but Mjolnir absolute muddies the waters for the feat.
Let me put it this way. Since you seem to "know" so much about Mjolnir's power output, how much of Thor's strength contributed to those planets shattering?
Keep in mind all the other instances where Thor had hammered him in other parts of the god butcher saga. You don't see planets shattering. Hmmm...? Maybe because what's dynamic is Thor's own strength and how much power he was providing with every swing? Maybe??? Makes sense right?

Let's take it a step further. Thor doubled his strength when he smashed Exitar's armor and caused planetwide shockwaves. Hmm...? What was dynamic there? His strength maybe??? Hint... Belt of Strength.

So unless u think Mjolnir was massively amped during godbomb, the logical conclusion would be the amount of power/strength Thor provides when he attacks.

He provides what is needed for the hammer to achieve.
http://imgur.com/FVrqJgY

Originally posted by CosmicComet

*Screenshot, not scan.

And what about it? What did Leo show or do that was supposed to be negate the feat?

The art is bad, but we see He-Man push two of Eternia's moons back in place in that episode, and they are both more than large enough to significantly affect the tides of the whole planet.

We also see the moons behind the planet from a low-space/upper atmosphere view near the end of the episode and, well, they are moon sized as would be expected.

20:26.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2mjbXAc5wEo

He-Man pushed two moon sized moons at high-hypersonic to low relativistic speeds. It didn't take him a lot of effort either.
I actually accept that feat no matter how silly it looks.

@ dynamic strength.

hysterical @ using bios.

Haha, not even being able to use smilies?

Phail.

Im sorry. But am I reading the same shit as the rest of you? Yall are using He-man riding a jet and pushing what looks to be a small asteroid and seriously claiming its a better feat than what Thor has? The jet was doing the pushing so please tell me your talking about some other moon pushing feat because I cant take you seriously if this is it. How is Mjolnir aiding Thor when Mjolnir holds the power of Thor but that stupid jet isnt helping he man? Worst argument I have ever heard on here.

Originally posted by lawest9
Low herald you say?...........not according to this video analysis.

https://youtu.be/kfrOaNxqlpQ

Low heralds don't casually move a moon.

Originally posted by Digi
A case could be made for mid, yes. However, he lacks mobility, his rogues gallery is pathetic, and he's occasionally had issues with low durability showings relative to his other feats. And the PC Supes fight is a complete non-feat for either one. He-Man has some utter cheese feats to stand alongside any ridiculous PC character. But on the whole, he's where he belongs in the tiers. With a possible few exceptions, The mid tier on this forum would mop the floor with him.

With Mjolnir, Thor wins. Much as I love Adam, it's not really a debate in my mind.

Golden armor He-Man from the end of the recent comic series could probably take Thor, considering how powerful Skeletor was (Even stronger then Orko, I'd wager, and he possessed DC Earth.)

@AdamPoE - it would be interesting, and he might actually be worthy. But Thor can summon it to himself at any time. It's a slight hindrance, not a game-changer for He-Man.

I didn't watch the Superman v. He-Man Youtube analysis, but if they think it's a fight, they're just not taking all of Kal's powers into account. For a ridiculously simple one, Adam could play defense for a while but has little-to-no legit answer for a battle fought at range against someone in his tier. Superman could heat vision from space until he won. They don't fight like that in comics of course, but these are battle forums.

I also continually find the moon thing hilarious. We discount feats that are less than a decade old because they aren't fresh. But one cheese feat from the 80's and nobody can let it go, despite an entire canon of feats and showings that puts him squarely in low herald. Again, intelligently fought, 90% of mid herald wipes the floor with He-Man. The only reason this particular thread is a fight is because Thor often fights like a dumb brawler, which is the only way he potentially loses bc that's Adam's wheelhouse.

Originally posted by cdtm
Golden armor He-Man from the end of the recent comic series could probably take Thor, considering how powerful Skeletor was (Even stronger then Orko, I'd wager, and he possessed DC Earth.)

Potentially. But that's also cherry picking versions to build a case. If we gave Thor some of the cosmic goodies he's had through the years (Belt of Strength, etc.) he'd win too.

Originally posted by Digi
@AdamPoE - it would be interesting, and he might actually be worthy. But Thor can summon it to himself at any time. It's a slight hindrance, not a game-changer for He-Man.

I didn't watch the Superman v. He-Man Youtube analysis, but if they think it's a fight, they're just not taking all of Kal's powers into account. For a ridiculously simple one, Adam could play defense for a while but has little-to-no legit answer for a battle fought at range against someone in his tier. Superman could heat vision from space until he won. They don't fight like that in comics of course, but these are battle forums.

I also continually find the moon thing hilarious. We discount feats that are less than a decade old because they aren't fresh. But one cheese feat from the 80's and nobody can let it go, despite an entire canon of feats and showings that puts him squarely in low herald. Again, intelligently fought, 90% of mid herald wipes the floor with He-Man. The only reason this particular thread is a fight is because Thor often fights like a dumb brawler, which is the only way he potentially loses bc that's Adam's wheelhouse.



Potentially. But that's also cherry picking versions to build a case. If we gave Thor some of the cosmic goodies he's had through the years (Belt of Strength, etc.) he'd win too.

I'm... not so sure.

Skeletor was arguably Skyfather level at that point. Even Lord Thor isn't a gimmie, given he was never quite in Odin's league..

Originally posted by cdtm
I'm... not so sure.

Skeletor was arguably Skyfather level at that point. Even Lord Thor isn't a gimmie, given he was never quite in Odin's league..

I'll happily concede, as that isn't really OP's fight. Classic Thor absorbed and redirected attacks from Gungnir, though, for example. And he always did better against Thanos than pretty much any herald. I'm also a particular fan of his fight with Mercy which, from beginning to end, I think might be his best showing ever, and was against a legitimate abstract-level being. Collectively, no, he's not Odin's equal, but he's punched outside his weight class on more than one occasion. Cherry-picking has to go both ways if we assume the best of combatants.

this is ridiculous, why is anyone still debating? Thor hits harder, is more durable, is just as fast in combat, has FAR more raw power, has a bunch of hax if we go by his classic version, has travel speed enough to blitz he-man across the universe if he wants ect.

and seriously, the lame argument of "X could be worthy and take his hammer" is idiotic. people have been trying for 70 + years in marvel and only a select few have ever managed it. also thor has all his weather abilities even without mjolnir!

@Adam - KMC isn't letting me quote your post. So...

First off, lol @ us debating this. Usually we're the ones backing Adam together. He's outmatched here, though. Anyway:

Mjolnir can teleport into Thor's hand as well. It's not always a flight thing. And regardless of method, I think He-Man trying to wield Mjolnir while it's actively trying to get back to Thor would be more a hindrance than a help. Obviously if he's dual-wielding without trouble, Thor's boned. He still has powers, but he'd be in trouble. But we're talking about a hypothetical at that point, and not a likely one imo.

Heat vision? When was this? In the recent crossover, I thought that in their fight Superman wasn't actually Superman.

And He-Man has plenty of showings, especially since we put on our suspension-of-disbelief goggles and routinely include He-Man's feats from multiple companies and mediums, as if they're the same thing. I stand by my point: for some reason we have a weird double standard with He-Man when it comes to feats, and a single, incredibly old feat that barely makes sense is given WAY more importance than we'd give to literally any Marvel or DC character. Imagine if Thor had switched companies three times and we were talking about a feat from the 80's that he performed in a made for TV movie. I get that that's a little bit of a strawman, but it's meant to illustrate the point. We're like 6 degrees removed from 80's He-Man, and that's still the biggest thing we talk about. I do it too, so I'm not saying it's wrong. There's just a double standard not to cherry-pick Thor's best 1-2 feats from any era and hold them up as the Thor showing up to this fight.

Originally posted by Digi
@Adam - KMC isn't letting me quote your post. So...

First off, lol @ us debating this. Usually we're the ones backing Adam together. He's outmatched here, though. Anyway:

Mjolnir can teleport into Thor's hand as well. It's not always a flight thing. And regardless of method, I think He-Man trying to wield Mjolnir while it's actively trying to get back to Thor would be more a hindrance than a help. Obviously if he's dual-wielding without trouble, Thor's boned. He still has powers, but he'd be in trouble. But we're talking about a hypothetical at that point, and not a likely one imo.

Heat vision? When was this? In the recent crossover, I thought that in their fight Superman wasn't actually Superman.

And He-Man has plenty of showings, especially since we put on our suspension-of-disbelief goggles and routinely include He-Man's feats from multiple companies and mediums, as if they're the same thing. I stand by my point: for some reason we have a weird double standard with He-Man when it comes to feats, and a single, incredibly old feat that barely makes sense is given WAY more importance than we'd give to literally any Marvel or DC character. Imagine if Thor had switched companies three times and we were talking about a feat from the 80's that he performed in a made for TV movie. I get that that's a little bit of a strawman, but it's meant to illustrate the point. We're like 6 degrees removed from 80's He-Man, and that's still the biggest thing we talk about. I do it too, so I'm not saying it's wrong. There's just a double standard not to cherry-pick Thor's best 1-2 feats from any era and hold them up as the Thor showing up to this fight.

Superman wasn't Superman. He was a construct created by Orko.

However, it should be noted Orko never intended for Superman to die. There's no way he could have known Adam would skewer him, he only wanted an inside man he could control. Meaning, he'd want to make as realistic a version of the character as possible.

And Orko certainly had the mojo to do it. He was INSANELY powerful at the time. Possibly close to Skeletor's levels when he absorbed the Castle.. (Orko's power source basically granted wish's..)

Originally posted by cdtm
Superman wasn't Superman. He was a construct created by Orko.

However, it should be noted Orko never intended for Superman to die. There's no way he could have known Adam would skewer him, he only wanted an inside man he could control. Meaning, he'd want to make as realistic a version of the character as possible.

And Orko certainly had the mojo to do it. He was INSANELY powerful at the time. Possibly close to Skeletor's levels when he absorbed the Castle.. (Orko's power source basically granted wish's..)

It is important to note that the Superman that He-Man fought was not a magical construct, but a clone created by magical means.

Orko controlled him the same way he controlled the other JLA members. The only difference is the clone was not burdened with Superman's moral reservations.

So who wins between the skyfather/high cosmic versions of the characters?

Essentially Rune King Thor and Golden Battlearmor He-Man.

Originally posted by cdtm
Superman wasn't Superman. He was a construct created by Orko.

However, it should be noted Orko never intended for Superman to die. There's no way he could have known Adam would skewer him, he only wanted an inside man he could control. Meaning, he'd want to make as realistic a version of the character as possible.

And Orko certainly had the mojo to do it. He was INSANELY powerful at the time. Possibly close to Skeletor's levels when he absorbed the Castle.. (Orko's power source basically granted wish's..)

Originally posted by Adam_PoE
It is important to note that the Superman that He-Man fought was not a magical construct, but a clone created by magical means.

Orko controlled him the same way he controlled the other JLA members. The only difference is the clone was not burdened with Superman's moral reservations.

You guys seem set on a favorable interpretation of the fight for He-Man, so I won't say much else to try to persuade you. This sort of apologist logic rarely holds much traction, though. If every time something that was almost Superman - or really, almost anyone in comics - counted as a knock against the real deal, it would be open season for BS. As DC has hammered home incredibly explicitly in comics, the character of Superman is something of a conceptual heroic fact in the universe, one that defies attempts to mimic or clone him, regardless of the means.

It's the same reason I don't count anything against the DC characters from the Wildstorm crossover. Hell, those were created by an equally batsh*t reality-altering villain, and intended to be just like the real thing. But they weren't real.

Anyway, lobotomy from space ftw against Superman. And a closer fight against Thor bc Thor rarely fights smart, but still has a huge edge overall if he utilizes anything other than his brawling.

Originally posted by Stoic
@Shadowfyre, I agree with most of what you said based on feats and such, but I could see an argument being formed to inquire about exactly how powerful He-Man's rogues were, in comparison to existing canon, albeit from another company. Such as Marvel, and DC?

His canon after all does revolve around him being from an entirely different reality than 616, which by chance includes all of the divergent Earth's that exist in DC canon. Beast Man on Earth may be just as strong as the Juggernaut. He Man has certainly exceeded Cain's top strength feat by miles. He Man was able to push a moon, while it took Cain, years to escape a Citadel approaching the size of Mount Fuji. I think most would agree that He-Man is the stronger of the two. Then again, we could be looking at the same thing and come out with two different views. Just wanted to put that out there.


So far I've only read 80's stuff(the original mini comics, DC's 80's run, some of the Star/Marvel run), but thought I'd chime in.

I get what you mean, but I don't see the argument working under the circumstances. As has been pointed out, He-Man has variable strength, depending on how much energy is being channeled into him via Castle Greyskull.

I've seen enough to think pretty much all the heroes and villains have at least a degree of superhuman strength. He-Man once had a tug of war with all the heroes, and was casually stalemating them while they struggled. I've yet to see He-Man have that big an advantage over one of the villains, usually fighting them decently to clearly evenly. But none of the villains have shown a similar strength advantage when they face heroes other than He-Man.

If He-Man didn't have variable strength, or we had a clear base/average level for him that was relatively close to his higher feats, or at least characters in the MOTU universe had non combat feats competitive with He-Man other than Skeletor(the only two I can think of actually requires quite possibly hyperbolic lip service), then I would agree on your argument.

Originally posted by Digi
You guys seem set on a favorable interpretation of the fight for He-Man, so I won't say much else to try to persuade you. This sort of apologist logic rarely holds much traction, though. If every time something that was almost Superman - or really, almost anyone in comics - counted as a knock against the real deal, it would be open season for BS. As DC has hammered home incredibly explicitly in comics, the character of Superman is something of a conceptual heroic fact in the universe, one that defies attempts to mimic or clone him, regardless of the means.

It's the same reason I don't count anything against the DC characters from the Wildstorm crossover. Hell, those were created by an equally batsh*t reality-altering villain, and intended to be just like the real thing. But they weren't real.

Anyway, lobotomy from space ftw against Superman. And a closer fight against Thor bc Thor rarely fights smart, but still has a huge edge overall if he utilizes anything other than his brawling.
As your co creator of the respect thread, I wouldn't say he has a HUGE edge in versatility. He def has the edge, but The Power Sword's shown it's got quite a few options beyond cutting too.

As for this fight, I see it depending on how the fight's approached by each. Thor def wins the ranged game or if both are holding back, but if they end up bloodlusted in melee I see He Man as having a literal edge for the simple reason that the Sword is a cutting weapon. So I see Thor eventually succumbing to bloodloss even if He-Man can't score something like a decapitation or dismemberment. Being a cutting weapon is basically the only reason the Executioner's Ax is considered more dangerous than the hammer after all.

Thor stomps

Originally posted by darthgoober
As your co creator of the respect thread, I wouldn't say he has a HUGE edge in versatility. He def has the edge, but The Power Sword's shown it's got quite a few options beyond cutting too.

As for this fight, I see it depending on how the fight's approached by each. Thor def wins the ranged game or if both are holding back, but if they end up bloodlusted in melee I see He Man as having a literal edge for the simple reason that the Sword is a cutting weapon. So I see Thor eventually succumbing to bloodloss even if He-Man can't score something like a decapitation or dismemberment. Being a cutting weapon is basically the only reason the Executioner's Ax is considered more dangerous than the hammer after all.

It's not the best matchup for Thor, I agree. I think there's a clear disparity in overall power - in Thor's favor - but that because of how they both normally fight, that's why Adam would have a chance. He-Man doesn't really absorb energy on the level that Thor can bring without end, so if we assume optimal power use, there's literally no answer for repeated lightning attacks from range. But yes, Thor could lose if he just stays in melee and brawls. But I also don't think that's assured because of how many times He-Man has also been KOd. So, like, combine those two together and I'm happy giving Adam maybe 2/10.

Originally posted by Digi
It's not the best matchup for Thor, I agree. I think there's a clear disparity in overall power - in Thor's favor - but that because of how they both normally fight, that's why Adam would have a chance. He-Man doesn't really absorb energy on the level that Thor can bring without end, so if we assume optimal power use, there's literally no answer for repeated lightning attacks from range. But yes, Thor could lose if he just stays in melee and brawls. But I also don't think that's assured because of how many times He-Man has also been KOd. So, like, combine those two together and I'm happy giving Adam maybe 2/10.
Oh I totally agree that Thor would win the ranged game and even has a good chance of winning if they just throw punches because he DOES have better durability showings, I was talking strictly about Adam going for the kill with the sword because he's got the better speed/agility feats and his weapon has a lethal edge. Plus he's got a "body shield" from the power vest to reduce damage from Thor's hammer.

Originally posted by darthgoober
he's got the better speed/agility feats and his weapon has a lethal edge.
If he has it's probably negligible... Plus Thor is a sponge when it comes to cutting damage.

Originally posted by celeyhyga17
If he has it's probably negligible... Plus Thor is a sponge when it comes to cutting damage.
Oh I'm in no way saying that he has a huge edge in speed agility, just that one exists. He's done things like run on sand so fast that it turned into glass and either create or unmake(can't remember which) tornadoes through sheer speed and such lol. That's not to say that Thor doesn't have impressive speed feats too because I know he does, I just give the edge to He-Man.

And I know he can take a whole truckload of cutting damage before succumbing to bloodloss, but a severed head is a severed head lol. Again, I was only giving He-Man the win in one very specific type of matchup.

Originally posted by darthgoober
Oh I'm in no way saying that he has a huge edge in speed agility, just that one exists. He's done things like run on sand so fast that it turned into glass and either create or unmake(can't remember which) tornadoes through sheer speed and such lol. That's not to say that Thor doesn't have impressive speed feats too because I know he does, I just give the edge to He-Man.

And I know he can take a whole truckload of cutting damage before succumbing to bloodloss, but a severed head is a severed head lol. Again, I was only giving He-Man the win in one very specific type of matchup.
Wow.. That I didn't know. Sand to glass from running? Wtf?!
I may have to concede that point.

Originally posted by celeyhyga17
Wow.. That I didn't know. Sand to glass from running? Wtf?!
I may have to concede that point.

Actually IIRC he was rubbing the sand(not running) to do it. And there was another instance where, well I didn't see the full episode, and didn't have audio for the clip, so I'm honestly not positive what happened, but it SEEMED like He-Man ran around to send a city to another dimension. Unfortunately the clip Digi posted is gone, so I can't give it(when I was able to hear audio again, I tried to get the clip but it'd been removed from YouTube). Maybe Digi can get it again.

^
Just watched the sand thing. He rubbed sand fast enough to turn it to glass.

Come to think of it, I believe Thor does have hand movement feats that can hold up to that.

Originally posted by celeyhyga17
I believe Thor does have hand movement feats that can hold up to that.

No, just you, celey

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
No, just you, celey
I believe...

U cheeky git.

People often forget that the Power of Grayskull grants He-Man new abilities, armor, and weapons to outmatch his adversaries.

For example, when He-Man faced the Snakemen, he was granted snake busting armor that could do all this:

ep5oh_6D4yY

With this in mind, surely the Power of Grayskull would give He-Man the tools necessary to match Thor.