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Recently I've considered raising the stature of Dooku relative to the ancient sith, and also relative to Vader for that matter. I used to have the likes of Naga Sadow on par with Dooku; now I think Tyranus is more on the level of Ragnos, as a Force user. mmm

Maybe I'm thinking, as Force wielders:

TPM Sidious (pre-Plagueis death) ~ Valkorion
Darth Caedus ~ novel Vitiate
RotJ Vader >= Exar Kun
Dooku ~ Ragnos > Darth Revan*
Maul ~ Naga Sadow < Freedon Nadd < Tulak Hord ~ Darth Revan
Obi Wan ~ Ludo Kreesh

And as duelists:

Dooku ~ RotJ Vader ~ Exar Kun
Obi Wan ~ Tulak Hord
Ventress ~ Marka Ragnos <= Darth Revan
And then down from there.

* I'd say Revan surpasses Dooku by KotOR, and is around Vader's ballpark by SoR.

Maybe that works?

What methodology should we use anyway? I scale from Sidious/Vitiate, and from some feat benchmarks and general accolades.

One of the worst rankings I have seen in a long time.

I'm surprised you could read it properly, tbh.

Imho, Muur, Pall, Ragnos and Nadd are between Tyranus and Vader, in the force.

There's also the question of pre-Nathema Vitiate; he's suggested to be a rival of Nadd, but not on the level of Ragnos.

Originally posted by The Ellimist
There's also the question of pre-Nathema Vitiate; he's suggested to be a rival of Nadd, but not on the level of Ragnos.
Interesting. I have Nadd~Ragnos, tbh.

Since when was pre-Nathema Vitiate compared to Freedon Nadd? Nadd wasn't born until well after the Nathema ritual.

Derp, I mean Naga Sadow, who's weaker than Nadd.

I'd say pre-Nathema Vitiate could fall in-between Maul and Dooku.

Sadow wasn't compared to pre-Nathema Vitiate, was he?

Didn't Vitiate say something of that sort? Perhaps I'm remembering wrong.

In either case, I think it's implied that he wasn't as powerful as Ragnos.

My opinion atm

Novel-Vitate
Vader~Kun
Nadd >/~ Ragnos
Pall
Muur~Hord
Tyranus~Dreypa~Sadow >/~ Pre-Nathema Vitate
Darth Revan
Maul
Kressh

Originally posted by Ursumeles
My opinion atm

Novel-Vitate
Vader~Kun
Nadd >/~ Ragnos
Pall
Muur~Hord
Tyranus~Dreypa~Sadow >/~ Pre-Nathema Vitate
Darth Revan
Maul
Kressh

As Force users, I'm assuming?

Originally posted by The Ellimist
Didn't Vitiate say something of that sort? Perhaps I'm remembering wrong.

In either case, I think it's implied that he wasn't as powerful as Ragnos.

Since when has Vitiate ever spoken about the Ancient Sith directly?

Although he might in the upcoming expansion, where his father apparently returns as a Ghost to assist in killing Vitiate permanently.

Originally posted by The Ellimist
As Force users, I'm assuming?
Yes.

Originally posted by The Ellimist
Didn't Vitiate say something of that sort? Perhaps I'm remembering wrong.

In either case, I think it's implied that he wasn't as powerful as Ragnos.
Right.

The child who will come to be known as the Sith Emperor is born. Black-eyed, heartless, and supremely strong in the dark side of the Force, the boy seizes control of his homeworld by the age of 13 and earns the title Lord Vitiate. He amasses an army of Sith followers and turns his back on Imperial politics to hone his skills in the dark side.

From Star Wars: The Old Republic: Encyclopedia

That is era of Marka Ragnos.

Thanaton was supremely powerful during the era of Nox and Vitiate

I mean, it's also the TOR Encyclopedia, which dishes out those "supremely powerful" accolades like candy during Halloween.

Originally posted by SunRazer
Although he might in the upcoming expansion, where his father apparently returns as a Ghost to assist in killing Vitiate permanently.
What?

How can they kill him permanently?

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
What?

How can they kill him permanently?

You know Vitiate has to die sometime, right?

And since he's all about rituals, it seems like the protagonist, Arcann, Dramath, and a bunch of the others band up to use a ritual to eliminate him. Or at least attempt to. I don't remember.

Originally posted by SunRazer
You know Vitiate has to die sometime, right?


LMFAO.

Originally posted by SunRazer
Thanaton was supremely powerful during the era of Nox and Vitiate

I mean, it's also the TOR Encyclopedia, which dishes out those "supremely powerful" accolades like candy during Halloween.
I take that as an editing error.

With several authors contributing to the same book, you are likely to run into mistakes like that.

So you don't take the Thanaton quote anymore?

I mean, it'd make sense to claim that it was hyperbole, not that it was an editing error so that you can take this one literally, lmfao

Originally posted by SunRazer
You know Vitiate has to die sometime, right?

And since he's all about rituals, it seems like the protagonist, Arcann, Dramath, and a bunch of the others band up to use a ritual to eliminate him. Or at least attempt to. I don't remember.
A powerful ritual would be a decent method to dismiss him, or send him back to the void.

It is obvious that he cannot be conventionally challenged.

Originally posted by SunRazer
So you don't take the Thanaton quote anymore?

I mean, it'd make sense to claim that it was hyperbole, not that it was an editing error so that you can take this one literally, lmfao
I read it as "one of the most powerful in galactic history."

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
I read it as "one of the most powerful in galactic history."

Plo Koon has that. Doesn't matter.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
I take that as an editing error.


Lol.

So do you think Vitiate is literally invincible? Or if you acknowledge that it's just hyperbole, what good does it do to your point?

It's funny because you try so earnestly to dismiss Stover's novel as being filled with hyperbolic content, but then take "supremely powerful" as a serious accolade.

Dooku's the axis of the universe.

GGWP TOR, not even you can contend with Stover's hyperbole

Originally posted by The Ellimist
Lol.

So do you think Vitiate is literally invincible? Or if you acknowledge that it's just hyperbole, what good does it do to your point?

It's funny because you try so earnestly to dismiss Stover's novel as being filled with hyperbolic content, but then take "supremely powerful" as a serious accolade.
Vitiate is an immortal being so conventional methods are not going to stop him.

A powerful ritual is a decent method to dismiss him though.

Vitiate is (objectively) supremely powerful, in TOR universe.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Vitiate is an immortal being so conventional methods are not going to stop him.

A powerful ritual is a decent method to dismiss him though.

Vitiate was objectively supremely powerful.

No he isn't, or he would've just destroyed the Republic by blinking.

But if your definition of "supreme" is just "more powerful than anyone else around", then sure, barring entities, Vitiate was supreme in his time. That hardly means he's better than people in the modern era.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
One of the worst rankings I have seen in a long time.

Yeah, some of these rankings are pretty shit, lmao.

I use the new Bane statement that states he surpassed all Sith before him and then scale how hes the weakest of the RO2. But Palpatines apprentices are hard to rank since they would not share that power scaling. 19 bby Vader for example is weaker than Muur but if he benefited from RO2 scaling he would have dismissed him.

I'm Not sure for Force, this looks OK

Originally posted by The Merchant
I use the new Bane statement that states he surpassed all Sith before him and then scale how hes the weakest of the RO2. But Palpatines apprentices are hard to rank since they would not share that power scaling. 19 bby Vader for example is weaker than Muur but if he benefited from RO2 scaling he would have dismissed him.

I don't think Vader can realistically be weaker than Bane, not when his potential rivals Sidious's (.i.e. "cut in half" from double), and he's already near the age of Bane's prime.

Originally posted by The Merchant
I use the new Bane statement that states he surpassed all Sith before him and then scale how hes the weakest of the RO2. But Palpatines apprentices are hard to rank since they would not share that power scaling. 19 bby Vader for example is weaker than Muur but if he benefited from RO2 scaling he would have dismissed him.

That new Bane statement is Canon; it doesn't apply to Legends.