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In order to defeat the Immortal Emperor, Revan decides to pull off a Nathema ritual of the same potency, which he somehow manages to do.

Who wins?

Revan might actually have a shot at winning this, though I'm not too sure about who definitely wins.

Valkorion was a greater prodigy than Revan.

Maybe, but he clearly peaked earlier. Otherwise he couldn't have possibly done so poorly against Revan in the novel.

Originally posted by darthbane77
Revan might actually have a shot at winning this, though I'm not too sure about who definitely wins.

Revan manages to absorb 97% of his lightning.

In other words he gets stomped.

WRONG

99.7-99.8%

Damn, people even hating on the math that proves Revan was even with Vitiate in the novel.

You're not even with someone if they leave you helpless on the floor, lol.

Yes, continue to totally ignore the circumstances surrounding the fight; as everybody else does with that fight.

It's clear as day that Revan is not meant to be an equal with Vitiate, lal.

(Besides the text making clear they are pretty much equal)

(Besides the text making clear they are pretty much as far apart as two combatants can possibly be)

Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova
(Besides the text making clear they are pretty much as far apart as two combatants can possibly be) Originally posted by Deronn_solo
It's clear as day that Revan is not meant to be an equal with Vitiate, lal. lol

I can't really grasp how members think they can throw away a feat under the basis they don't like it or think it's not what the author meant to convey.

It happened. It's canon. Like, I can't stress that enough.

Ant. Despite Galen doing the exact same thing in regards to Sidious I don't make claims like Galen >= Sidious. I suggest that somebody could take that position based on the evidence not contradicting it but I in no way endorse someone actually doing so. Like, you not only seem to be doing so on another forum but you yourself are adopting the position as well.

There's an unprecedented difference between Revan/Vitiate and Galen/Sidious.

One is a direct clash of absolute power. The other is an elongated struggle of increasing power where Palpatine is getting a hard on.

One is a single blast from Vitiate who had a few seconds to gather enough power to instantly overwhelm Revan with the latter being unable to do anything to defend himself. The other was Sidious trying to utterly annihilate a threat to his plans ( Kota ) with lightning and Galen stepping in and reducing the lightning to levels that caused him pain which he was able to do for an extended period after he had already expended massive amounts of energy reserves fighting through Imperial forces and defeating Vader.

This isn't even taking account the difference in power between Sidious nearly 2 decades after RotS having absorbed the life force of billions for that span of time in comparison to Vitiate.

You're right in that there's an unprecedented difference at least.

What version of the fight are you referring to for Marek/Sidious?

Hard to make a rebuttal when there are three completely different versions.

That being said, since the game is the primary source, we should take that as reference.

In which, Marek is handling lightning weak enough to be tanked by Kota. It's not comparable with Vitiate's.

And for the novel, which is on equal grounds with the comic, Marek doesn't even use the Force against the lightning.

So under the basis 2 out of 3 sources say no, in which 1 is the primary, no.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
What version of the fight are you referring to for Marek/Sidious?

Hard to make a rebuttal when there are three completely different versions.

Novel always comes first in my mind. Though the comic and game honestly portray the same thing.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
That being said, since the game is the primary source, we should take that as reference.

In which, Marek is handling lightning weak enough to be tanked by Kota. It's not comparable with Vitiate's.

And for the novel, which is on equal grounds with the comic, Marek doesn't even use the Force against the lightning.

So under the basis 2 out of 3 sources say no, in which 1 is the primary, no.

I take the novel above all else given the game is contradicted by multiple versions of itself. Regardless of which version you take though they all portray the same events.

That speaks to Kota's abilities by the end of TFU friend. Please don't fall into the same trap as Ziggy and judge a characters capabilities off of your preconceived notions of what they are capable of.

Yes he does, otherwise he would have been ashed as we've seen Sidious's lightning do to other sentient beings in the past before he grew substantially in power.

Given what you're saying here is a blatantly false misinterpretation I'm inclined to say "No." As well. Unlike you though I'm not blatantly denying reality to suit my agenda and conform to my bias.

Originally posted by darthbane77
Yes, continue to totally ignore the circumstances surrounding the fight; as everybody else does with that fight.

Show me how the neutralization of the circumstances would've made them equal.

No, because the text states specifically that his body is taking the full brunt of Palpatine's power, not his Force shield or whatever you're suggesting.

Holy shit...

Are you actually suggesting Galen tanked Palpatine's lightning without shielding himself with the Force in some way?

You're retarded.

"taking the full brunt of the Sith lightning into his own body. The pain was incredible, searing every nerve back to its individual cells, skewering each of them on white-hot needles."

I'm not "suggesting" it. I'm stating it, lmfao.

You're an idiot. Just because the novel doesn't state something outright doesn't mean you can't use common f*cking sense to understand what happened. Both the novel and games show Galen using the Force to weaken or block Sidious's lightning in some way and since a human being tanking lightning capable of incinerating being is impossible it's pretty obvious he's shielding himself in some way.

Please don't be stupid Ant.

No, the novel makes clear Marek isn't using the Force - hence the direct quote. The point is Palpatine isn't using his lightning to full power, hence why he isn't incinerating Marek. You're assuming too much.

The novel states that Sidious is desperate. Why would he not be using his full power if he's desperate? Why would he have held back against Kota when he interfered with his plans? Why would the other sources show Galen blocking or weakening Sidious's attack if Galen's simply tanking it? Why are you so dumb?

Palpatine was probably desperate because Marek was grabbing onto him, meaning if Palpatine were to ramp up the lightning, he (i.e. Palpatine) would also be ****ed. Thus why Palpatine just rode the power and got a hard one on from it. Palpatine was never actually threatened by Marek, just his own power.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Palpatine was probably desperate because Marek was grabbing onto him, meaning if he were to ramp up the lightning, he would also be ****ed. Thus why Palpatine just rode the power and got a hard one on from it. He was never threatened by Marek - just his own power.

Why would he have allowed Marek to walk forward against his lightning and grab onto him in the first place then?

Also please don't ignore my other questions simply because you don't have an answer.

"Why would he have held back against Kota when he interfered with his plans? Why would the other sources show Galen blocking or weakening Sidious's attack if Galen's simply tanking it? Why are you so dumb?"

Lmfao, we have Palpatine sending a wave of Force lightning into Kota's back, meaning again there was no barrier, and yet Kota wasn't incinerated. This is probably because Palpatine wouldn't instantly kill someone like Kota, he would torture him first (refer to Palpatine's torture of the Death Star designer). It's no surprise then that when Marek steps between the lightning, he's likewise not incinerated. Note that Palpatine probably never expected Marek to move in front of the lightning, hence why Marek could make a messily step forward. It would be foolish to try to ramp out the lightning from 0 to a 100 when Marek is only a foot away from him anyway, by the way.

We know he had back against Kota since Kota wasn't incinerated (noting that Kota didn't use a barrier either. The text states it hit his back and that he was completely caught off-guard). And note all three sources have numerous differences on numerous fronts. This being one of them isn't a surprise. However, your questions aren't relevant, since the text states it hit Marek's body, not his barrier or power.

I'm savoring the lascivious pain in this thread

Oh shit, is Galen getting nerfed? Niiiiice.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Lmfao, we have Palpatine sending a wave of Force lightning into Kota's back, meaning again there was no barrier, and yet Kota wasn't incinerated. This is probably because Palpatine wouldn't instantly kill someone like Kota, he would torture him first (refer to Palpatine's torture of the Death Star designer). It's no surprise then that when Marek steps between the lightning, he's likewise not incinerated. Note that Palpatine probably never expected Marek to move in front of the lightning, hence why Marek could make a messily step forward. It would be foolish to try to ramp out the lightning from 0 to a 100 when Marek is only a foot away from him anyway, by the way.

We know he had back against Kota since Kota wasn't incinerated (noting that Kota didn't use a barrier either. The text states it hit his back and that he was completely caught off-guard). And note all three sources have numerous differences on numerous fronts. This being one of them isn't a surprise. However, your questions aren't relevant, since the text states it hit Marek's body, not his barrier or power.

Lol, so Palpatine can't amp his lightning in close quarters? Isn't that exactly what he did against Yoda? And he tanked Galen's suicide blast - why wouldn't he be able to tank lightning close quarters? Starkiller did that against Vader at the beginning of TFU II, Dooku did it against Anakin in TCW, I see no precedence for this weird obfuscating.

As for taking it into his body, yeah, he's absorbing it. That doesn't preclude using the Force to aid him; at this point you're playing silly semantics games. But I'm sure you already knew that.

You do recognize the difference between Marek/Palpatine and most other lightning stunts? Marek was literally holding onto Palpatine, meaning that the lightning was hurting Palpatine as much as it was Marek. Ramping up the lightning to ashing levels would have likewise left Palpatine ashed. You can't initiate a Force barrier after the power already began.

Palpatine tanked the suicide blast because Marek dropped his defenses (i.e. his grip on Palpatine). Thus, when Marek unleashed his power outward, Palpatine could form a Force barrier to defend himself.

I'll respond tomorrow.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
I'll rape tomorrow.
Dew it

https://i.imgflip.com/1csp29.gif

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Lmfao, we have Palpatine sending a wave of Force lightning into Kota's back, meaning again there was no barrier, and yet Kota wasn't incinerated. This is probably because Palpatine wouldn't instantly kill someone like Kota, he would torture him first (refer to Palpatine's torture of the Death Star designer). It's no surprise then that when Marek steps between the lightning, he's likewise not incinerated. Note that Palpatine probably never expected Marek to move in front of the lightning, hence why Marek could make a messily step forward. It would be foolish to try to ramp out the lightning from 0 to a 100 when Marek is only a foot away from him anyway, by the way.

We know he had back against Kota since Kota wasn't incinerated (noting that Kota didn't use a barrier either. The text states it hit his back and that he was completely caught off-guard). And note all three sources have numerous differences on numerous fronts. This being one of them isn't a surprise. However, your questions aren't relevant, since the text states it hit Marek's body, not his barrier or power.

His back?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HblR0sMoh3s, 16:04.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-Ig_yON-ufNk/VIxBA-CzkzI/AAAAAAAGcKE/dIPPD1Ch4_A/s1600/p1_117%2Bcopy.jpg

"The apprentice noted, as though viewing the world in slow motion, the Jedi Master telekinetically snatching the Emperor's lightsaber from his waist and, with a surety belying his physical blindness, using it to cut down the Imperial Guards watching the prisoners. Lunging forward, he struck next at the Emperor, who stood, apparently unarmed, with one hand still reaching out for the apprentice.

But the Emperor was never unarmed. Raising his other hand, he blasted Kota with lightning before the blow came close to falling. Sith energy crackled between them and the Jedi Master fell back, caught in the Emperor's deadly grip."

I'm sorry but, which version are you referring to here? Because, as far as I'm aware. Neither the game, the novel or the comic depict events as you're suggesting.

He's going to do this to someone who is intent on ruining his plans of turning Galen to the Darkside and making him his new apprentice when Galen is standing nearby?

First off, Galen was more then a foot away. If you look at the distance pictured in both the comic and game he's at least several meters away. Secondly, he didn't have any trouble ramping up his lightning enough to overwhelm Yoda despite them literally being on opposing sides of a senate pod. So I don't see why he'd have any trouble here against someone you believe to be far weaker and far easier to overwhelm.

You're wrong Ant. I just posted the scene in question and nowhere does it say Sidious hit him in his back. I also provided the other versions which corroborate it just for shits and giggles. Enjoy. And simply because the text doesn't note something doesn't mean that it didn't occur. I already explained this above. This leaves us with two possibilities. That Sidious would not opt to simply end Kota then and there with a concentrated blast of force lightning and remove him as a threat to his plans but rather torture him in front of Galen. Or that Kota managed to shield himself for a brief period from the full power of Sidious's lightning. I find the latter scenario more likely. Again, simply because some of Sidious's energy got through or Galen didn't fully diminish the power of the lightning ( similar to Revan with Vitiate ) doesn't mean he wasn't blocking it. The only way your stance makes any sense is if you adopt the position that Sidious wasn't attempting to kill Kota and then let Galen walk up to him and grab his shoulders which makes absolutely no sense.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Oh shit, is Galen getting nerfed? Niiiiice.

Nah, Ant's just feeling frisky but he's being put back in his place.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
You do recognize the difference between Marek/Palpatine and most other lightning stunts? Marek was literally holding onto Palpatine, meaning that the lightning was hurting Palpatine as much as it was Marek. Ramping up the lightning to ashing levels would have likewise left Palpatine ashed. You can't initiate a Force barrier after the power already began.

Palpatine tanked the suicide blast because Marek dropped his defenses (i.e. his grip on Palpatine). Thus, when Marek unleashed his power outward, Palpatine could form a Force barrier to defend himself.

He's referring to your answer to my question of why he simply didn't amp his lightning while Galen was walking towards him to which you responded

"Note that Palpatine probably never expected Marek to move in front of the lightning, hence why Marek could make a messily step forward. It would be foolish to try to ramp out the lightning from 0 to a 100 when Marek is only a foot away from him anyway, by the way."

Unless this was in response to something else and you just failed to respond to that question. If that's the case I'd ask that you quit ignoring certain section of my argument you are unable to answer.

Originally posted by Emperordmb
https://i.imgflip.com/1csp29.gif

Ngl that got a chuckle out of me. :P

Theres an edit button.....

Ye.

Originally posted by SunRazer
Show me how the neutralization of the circumstances would've made them equal. Very well, I will do so.
1: The DS Nexus on Dromun Kaas was amping Vitiate, and considering how steeped in the Dark Side Dromund Kaas is, it's safe to the amp was considerable. So, Vitiate would have been amped by this nexus while Revan (who was of light side alignment at the time) would have been weakened. (Don't even say a anything about his dark side powers would have been amped too, he used the dark side once in the fight; so that is not even remotely a good point.)

2: Revan had just been drugged and tortured for 3 years straight by Scourge. While the drugs were likely not a factor (Revan probably purged them from his system) the torture and other physical problems (he likely suffered from a t least minor malnutrition and atrophy from a lack of being able to do anything.) So Revan was not at all in peak physical shape when he fought Vitiate either.

3:Now, to the fight itself. Revan knocks Vitiate on his ass twice, once with his "Force in Balance" attack and the other by deflecting lightning back at Vitiate. So, Vitiate gets angry and does his hiss, releasing a full powered blast of lightning at Revan. Revan absorbs the large majority of it, causing the lightning to go from "infinitely more powerful" than lightning capable of incinerating people, to being capable of giving Revan 2nd degree burns. That requires A LOT of power, and the math provided by Ant shows just how much of that lightning was absorbed. The fact that Revan did this while on a dark side nexus is astounding, suggesting just how powerful Revan is even off a nexus. Powerful enough that he was able to negate most of it and take the rest of it without dying.

So, it stands to reason that off a nexus Revan would have been able to defeat Vitiate in this fight. And based on all the factors arrayed against Revan, it's easy to see that Revan and Vitiate were pretty closely matched.

DD, why the hell are you merging different versions? The novel states, "sending another wave of Sith lightning into Kota's back."

So yeah, fix your post to one continuity, and then I'll get back to you. I won't shift through the BS otherwise.

Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova
Novel always comes first in my mind.
And yet you don't use the novel when you don't like it, like with the back instance.

Anyway, I recommend making your post with the video-game, since that's the primary source.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
DD, why the hell are you merging different versions? The novel states, "sending another wave of Sith lightning into Kota's back."

So yeah, fix your post to one continuity, and then I'll get back to you. I won't shift through the BS otherwise.

I'm simply showing you the different versions which support my point. The text I provided was the first time Sidious electrocuted Rahm in which he was trying to kill him but Galen stops him by throwing a hail of debris at him. The one you're mentioning is after Rahm has been electrocuted. Regardless, none of that that would prevent him from shielding himself from Sidious's second attack.

I don't care what you do. Respond to it or don't. Just know that when you make claims that are blatantly false I'll be there to address them and put you back in your place.

But you said earlier you take the novel as the main version. Which version do you want to debate? You can't pick the best versions of each.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
And yet you don't use the novel when you don't like it, like with the back instance.

Anyway, I recommend making your post with the video-game, since that's the primary source.

I always take into account the novel. I take into account the other sources as well though when the issues are unclear and where they don't contradict the events that occur in the novel.

The video game is the first source that is contradicted by multiple other game versions.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
But you said earlier you take the novel as the main version. Which version do you want to debate? You can't pick the best versions of each.

The novel comes before all else. The game and comic are supplementary material where they do not contradict the novel.

Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova
The novel comes before all else. The game and comic are supplementary material where they do not contradict the novel.
Well, ignoring the fact that's not true, why cite the game and comic then?

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
So yeah, fix your post to one continuity, and then I'll get back to you. I won't shift through the BS otherwise.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Well, ignoring the fact that's not true, why cite the game and comic then?

With the comic and novel you're correct as it's more a matter of which you favor personally. I just take the novel then because it's a descriptive source that leaves less room for incorrect interpretations. For the games that's the stance you have to take given the many contradictions within its different versions.

Because they're supplementary material where they don't contradict as I explained above. The comic is actually probably equal material where it contradicts and is up to which version you favor more which is why I always give Wolf the option to pick the comic or novel version where he debates Shaak Ti with me.

Except the novel states Kota got hit in the back, but then you cited the comic and the game to prove he didn't. And then you state the comic and the game can only be used when they don't contradict the novel. Lmfao.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66


I've already explained it. If you don't understand it that's your problem.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Except the novel states Kota got hit in the back, but then you cited the comic and the game to prove he didn't. And then you state the comic and the game can only be used when they don't contradict the novel. Lmfao.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Except the novel states Kota got hit in the back, but then you cited the comic and the game to prove he didn't. And then you state the comic and the game can only be used when they don't contradict the novel. Lmfao.

He didn't get hit in the back in the first instance. Sidious attempted to kill Rahm with lightning twice in the novel and I thought you were referring to the first instance.

"No!" Kota's voice came as though from a great distance. The apprentice noted, as though viewing the world in slow motion, the Jedi Master telekinetically snatching the Emperor's lightsaber from his waist and, with a surety belying his physical blindness, using it to cut down the Imperial Guards watching the prisoners. Lunging forward, he struck next at the Emperor, who stood, apparently unarmed, with one hand still reaching out for the apprentice.

But the Emperor was never unarmed. Raising his other hand, he blasted Kota with lightning before the blow came close to falling. Sith energy crackled between them and the Jedi Master fell back, caught in the Emperor's deadly grip.

"Help him!"

Bail Organa's voice snapped the apprentice out of his trance. He shook his head, feeling the Emperor's influence sliding off him like oil. What had he been thinking? He didn't want to return to the dark side after everything he had been through. He had seen what it did, in Maris Brood, on Felucia, and in the eyes of Darth Vader. He didn't even want to kill his Master, now that he saw him humbled and at his mercy. That was where it had all started, he now realized. When Darth Vader had killed Galen's father and Galen had snatched the lightsaber from his hand, his intention had been solely to avenge his father's death. That had been what Vader had seen in him all those years ago, not just that he was strong with the Force-and that was why Galen had blotted out the person he had once been. He had taken that first step down the path of the dark side all on his own, before he had been subjected to Vader's cruel tutelage. He had to retract it now or submit to the dark side forever.

Murdering Darth Vader would accomplish nothing. Saving his friends might change the course of history.

Seen in that light, the decision was surprisingly easy.

A hail of shattered transparisteel and debris drove the Emperor back from Kota, breaking his concentration and freeing the Jedi Master from the fatal web of energy. Smoking and weak, Kota fell away and was caught by Garm Bel Iblis. The apprentice tossed them the comlink and advanced on Palpatine." - The Force Unleashed.


Skip.

Kota limped up behind him and put a hand on his shoulder. "That's it, boy," he said with rough pride. "He's beaten. Let it go." - The Force Unleashed.

Skip

"You fool!" snarled the Emperor, sending another wave of Sith lightning into Kota's back. "He will never be yours."

Kota fell with his arms upraised, and the apprentice knew that it wasn't over yet. The moment of truth had arrived." - The Force Unleashed.

I was referring to the second.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
I was referring to the second.

I'm aware of that now.

You can ignore the part that addresses that subject on the last page and respond to the rest. Or don't. Like I said, it's up to you.

I would like you to respond to the last post on the last page ( page 3 ) however. I highlighted the relevant text. Galen is standing in front of Sidious contemplating whether or not to execute him when Rahm comes up behind him and puts his hand on his shoulder.

The cut between the scene is this.

"The sound of engines from above distracted them both. They looked up to see the Rogue Shadow descending over the shattered dome, lights flashing on and off to attract their attention. Its repulsors dispelled the last of the smoke and sent the apprentice's tattered cape whipping around his legs.

Juno, he thought. At last, everything is going to be all right.

And then it refers to Sidious sending lightning into his back.

Note it would have been impossible for Sidious to have electrocuted Rahm from behind unless he'd arced his lightning or the lightning itself was sent hurtling at his entire body both of which are attacks Rahm would see coming and be able to raise defenses against.

The only argument you could make to say he wasn't defending against it would be that Sidious's lightning was simply to fast for Rahm to react to it.

But then we're back to the illogic of Sidious not outright killing him for some reason despite the text noting that's what his intent was.

I'll be off for the rest of the day. Going to be shopping for a riddler costume.

Or he turned around, lol.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Oh shit, is Galen getting nerfed? Niiiiice.

No, he isn't. He's always been shit.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Or he turned around, lol.

Given both the game and comic have him faced towards Palpatine and the novel makes no note of him turning around found this doubtful. The game does however show Rahm's body being fully engulfed in lightning which would adequately explain the wording of the text.

No, it doesn't.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0_9scDAKjXk&index=20&list=PLtfXEcg8SXCzBUbivyUYlf1r3ifD9aTrW, 9:36

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
(Besides the text making clear they are pretty much equal)

Besides the statements from the narrator and Revan himself that he knew he couldn't go toe to toe with The Emperor for long, along with all the other wank Vitiate gets in the Novel? You can't say the text makes it clear as day that they're equal when we have shit like that in conjunction with, as Nova pointed out, Revan ultimately being the one on the ground. Even with the circumstances, it's like...

Yoda vs Sidious is much more clear indication of a relatively equal tutaminis-Lightning battle.

You really need a supremely biased reading to think that Revan was on par with Vitiate in that fight.

I mean, even everything leading up to the fight, including Revan's own assessment indicates the Emperor's superiority.

Ye.

Well, to be fair, Vitiate performed pretty damn terribly in that fight. Revan did pretty damn good for himself, if you consider the power discrepancy. The fact of the matter is, though, that there's a power discrepancy. Which is why Revan lost.

Originally posted by darthbane77
Very well, I will do so.
1: The DS Nexus on Dromun Kaas was amping Vitiate, and considering how steeped in the Dark Side Dromund Kaas is, it's safe to the amp was considerable. So, Vitiate would have been amped by this nexus while Revan (who was of light side alignment at the time) would have been weakened. (Don't even say a anything about his dark side powers would have been amped too, he used the dark side once in the fight; so that is not even remotely a good point.)

Yes, I'm aware of that.



Sorry, but in just a couple of seconds, Revan Healed himself from his burns that he had suffered from Vitiate's Lightning and was able to stand again. Given that Revan couldn't even stand from being hurt by Vitiate's Lightning, it was obviously far more debilitating than the torture he endured in the prison. And if he could largely heal himself from that in mere seconds, I'm thinking that over the course of a day, he can heal himself from whatever torture he suffered in the cells.



Once through the mechanics of a lightsaber rather than through Force power, and once whilst Vitiate's powers were completely diverted.



That's because you choose to view it that way. An alternative way of looking at it is that most characters don't inflict such a level of damage on others with Lightning (Dooku with AotC Anakin, etc), even when we know that there's a huge disparity between them in terms of Force power, meaning that the degree of damage inflicted by Vitiate's Lightning constitutes quite a considerable disparity indeed.



The maths provided are pretty baseless and rely on a number of unproven assumptions. The only thing the maths show is that there are a number of desperate Revan fanboys who are willing to resort to anything to elevate their god and savior.



I don't deny that Revan compares, but I'm not convinced that putting him as an equal because he was left for dead on a nexus is justifiable.



Nowhere is it remotely implied that Revan is equal to Vitiate, as you said earlier. Likewise, the deduction that Revan would be able to beat Vitiate off-nexus is entirely conjectural on your part.

There's no reason to even debate Nova on this topic given he must have changed his stance on this four times in the past two months.

I still put Revan on the level immediately below novel Vitiate, lol.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
You do recognize the difference between Marek/Palpatine and most other lightning stunts? Marek was literally holding onto Palpatine,

...what? He clearly wasn't; he was catching it with tutanimus and advancing towards him. If he held onto Palpatine, it was at the very end.



All of these rules are a product of your imagination. There's no reason to think that Palpatine can't throw up a barrier once he's initiated lightning; by that logic, Vader should've just snapped his neck with a thought in RotJ (or TFU for that matter).



How do you explain his lightning duel with Yoda in RotS?

Originally posted by The Ellimist
...what? He clearly wasn't; he was catching it with tutanimus and advancing towards him. If he held onto Palpatine, it was at the very end.
What?

"With shaking fingers, he took the old man's bony shoulders in his hands and gripped them tight. The Sith lightning spread to engulf the two of them, fueled by both their desperations. The Emperor tipped back his head and howled in lascivious pain. Darkness threatened to envelop the apprentice's mind, but he clutched to consciousness with feverish will. He had to see this through. He had to."

Lmfao.



Lmfao. No.

The rule is that you can't use a defensive Force attack against the offensive Force attack if it is already being applied to you.

And that's not a rule I made up. Refer to the sourcebooks and the ROTSJN.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
What?

"With shaking fingers, he took the old man's bony shoulders in his hands and gripped them tight. The Sith lightning spread to engulf the two of them, fueled by both their desperations. The Emperor tipped back his head and howled in lascivious pain. Darkness threatened to envelop the apprentice's mind, but he clutched to consciousness with feverish will. He had to see this through. He had to."

Lmfao.


Yeah; as I said, he had to advance against Palpatine's lightning to have grabbed him that way.



So if you catch someone off guard with telekinesis, you could proceed to keep them pinned in place in perpetuity, or to snap their necks with a gesture?

Citation needed ofc

He only took two steps, so he was blatantly extremely close.


https://i97.servimg.com/u/f97/17/73/92/12/rip110.png
-- Roleplaying Game, Second Edition

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https://i97.servimg.com/u/f97/17/73/92/12/rip10.png
-- Tales of the Jedi Sourcebook

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"A rush of dark power lifted Obi-Wan off his feet and choked the air from his lungs. He reached for the Force to counter Dooku, but the attack had been too sudden."
-- Revenge of the Sith: Junior Novelization


If a Force-user ever catches you off-guard with telekinesis, you would have to overpower the grip with an offensive outburst of Force energy, which can be done nigh-instantly.

Refer to the Darth Bane novels and the Shadow of Revan final fight for that.

But you couldn't use a Force barrier to defend yourself after the attack already happened, yeah.

Now note that such an outburst of Force energy wouldn't work on a power like Force lightning. I don't see any possible direct defense for it once the power already began.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
I can't really grasp how members think they can throw away a feat under the basis they don't like it or think it's not what the author meant to convey.

It happened. It's canon. Like, I can't stress that enough. Your cancer-tier calculations are not canon lol, they are based on flawed understanding of how Force lightning works. Which is why your conclusions make no sense.

Lmfao, no. Get your LGBT, ISIS-supporting filth out of my thread. Disgusting.

Oh dry those tears, it's not my problem no one agrees with your retarded nonsense.

Palpatine can use Force barrier while he uses lightning, lol. He did so in his fight against Yoda.

Originally posted by Azronger
Palpatine can use Force barrier while he uses lightning, lol. He did so in his fight against Yoda.
https://imgflip.com/s/meme/Computer-Guy-Facepalm.jpg

Read what I argue before you post.

He can't use a Force barrier to resist lightning that is already hitting him.

I never said he can't use a Force barrier and lightning simultaneously.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
He only took two steps, so he was blatantly extremely close.

Um, what?

It the game version it takes Galen 25 seconds to grab Sidious.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HblR0sMoh3s, 21:30

In the novel Galen has an exchange with Rahm before he grabs onto Sidious and Galen is still able to move forward in the interval.

"The pain was incredible, searing every nerve back to its individual cells, skewering each of them on white-hot needles. He had never before felt anything like this. He wanted to recoil from the source, to curl into a ball and let unconsciousness take the pain away, but somehow he stayed standing, seeing the world through a crackling blue light, and even took a step toward the Emperor.

"Go!" he hissed at Kota. "Hurry!"

The general hesitated only for a moment. He, too, had seen a glimpse of the future, the apprentice remembered. He knew that it came down to a simple choice: him and the Rebels or the apprentice and darkness forever. Gathering up the Rebels, Kola ushered them toward the descending ship.

Another staggering, painful step and the Emperor was within the apprentice's reach. With shaking fingers, he took the old man's bony shoulders in his hands and gripped them tight." - The Force Unleashed.

Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova
"The pain was incredible, searing every nerve back to its individual cells, skewering each of them on white-hot needles. He had never before felt anything like this. He wanted to recoil from the source, to curl into a ball and let unconsciousness take the pain away, but somehow he stayed standing, seeing the world through a crackling blue light, and even took a step toward the Emperor.

"Go!" he hissed at Kota. "Hurry!"

The general hesitated only for a moment. He, too, had seen a glimpse of the future, the apprentice remembered. He knew that it came down to a simple choice: him and the Rebels or the apprentice and darkness forever. Gathering up the Rebels, Kola ushered them toward the descending ship.

Another staggering, painful step and the Emperor was within the apprentice's reach. With shaking fingers, he took the old man's bony shoulders in his hands and gripped them tight." - The Force Unleashed.

Two steps.

I'm aware. I'm simply noting that the amount of time it took for Galen to move forward against the lightning is left unspecified.

He moves about as much in the cutscene and it takes around 25 seconds in that iteration. Regardless Sidious is certainly capable or ramping up his lightning in the interim while Galen and Rahm are having their exchange.

Galen did better against Sidious Lightning than Revan against a weaker Vitiate's

Has nothing to do with my point.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Has nothing to do with my point.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
There's an unprecedented difference between Revan/Vitiate and Galen/Sidious.

What was that?

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Has nothing to do with my point.

Those are you own words quoted from the end of the first page. It's the entire point of the conversation dumbass.

No?

Yes.

... what?

I know it can be confusing Ant but I'll try to put this as simple as I'm able.

You stated that there is a vast difference between Galen's performance against Sidious and Revan's performance against Vitiate on the first page of this thread as the post that spawned this discussion.

Skillz points out that Galen does better against Sidious then Revan did against Vitiate.

You say that's not your point when that's the entire point of the conversation.

You then pretend ( I hope ) to be ignorant of this fact and go "Ah duuuuuuuuuuuh." As you act ( again I can only hope you're pretending to be this retarded ) like you don't know what I'm talking about.

I never even responded to Skillz, lmfao. I said the amount of time Marek needed to handle Vitiate isn't my point to you.

Oh, lmfao. I never even saw Skillz posted on this page.

When I said "Has nothing to do with my point," I was referring to:

Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova
I'm aware. I'm simply noting that the amount of time it took for Galen to move forward against the lightning is left unspecified.

Not Skillz's post, which got wedged in there when I wasn't looking.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
I never even responded to Skillz, lmfao. I said the amount of time Marek needed to handle Vitiate isn't my point to you.



That's the entire point. You argument is based on Sidious not having enough time in the interim where Galen grabs him to ramp up his lightning.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Oh, lmfao. I never even saw Skillz posted on this page.

When I said "Has nothing to do with my point," I was referring to:



Not Skillz's post, which got wedged in there when I wasn't looking.

Fair enough.

Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova
That's the entire point. You argument is based on Sidious not having enough time in the interim where Galen grabs him to ramp up his lightning.
No, the point is:

a.) There's no indication Palpatine ramped up his lightning in the interim, whereas the ROTJ and ROTS novels specify when Palpatine does such.

b.) Ramping up the lightning when Marek is only two steps away is practical suicide for Palpatine, even despite the time it ultimately took to reach him.

A. ) The indication is that he doesn't want Galen to ****ing grab him so that his own lightning is coursing into him which would cause him to be in a desperate situation as both the novel and you yourself noted on the last page.

B. ) So dumb.

http://a.dilcdn.com/bl/wp-content/uploads/sites/6/2013/09/gallery44.jpg

a.) Speculation. And no, Palpatine was enjoying it.

b.) Marek wasn't using tutaminis, he was physically taking it, so that's different.

A. ) It's just plain common sense.

B. ) He was diminishing/shielding himself against it in some way because it's physically impossibly to tank Sidious's lightning without any sort of defense when he wants to kill you. And the point is that Sidious is fully capable of ramping up his lightning when his target is close by.

a.) Which really further stresses my point if you're saying that.

b.) Well for one, Palpatine didn't want Marek dead - he wanted him as a replacement to Vader. And for two, no, because Kota likewise tanked Sidious' lightning without any defense. And three, the text states it hit Marek's body and cells, not his barrier and tutaminis, so wrong there. What a shame.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
a.) Which really further stresses my point if you're saying that.

b.) Well for one, Palpatine didn't want Marek dead - he wanted him as a replacement to Vader. And for two, no, because Kota likewise tanked Sidious' lightning without any defense. And three, the text states it hit Marek's body and cells, not his barrier and tutaminis, so wrong there.

A. ) I really don't know what to say here. Suggesting Sidious seeing a guy slowly moving against his lightning and reaching out for him wouldn't cause him to ramp up his lightning is just plain stupidity.

B. ) There's no evidence that Rahm didn't put up defenses as I already pointed out in my post on the last page and in fact given Sidious was trying to kill him as is noted in the novel it would make it impossible for him not to. You have yet to respond to that post either btw.

I'm off for the rest of the day.

b.) You can't argue a negative.

That's literally the only possibllity given Rahm doesn't have superhuman durability without the Force and the novel already confirmed Sidious had lethal intent against Rahm.

Where does it say that? And Palpatine had lethal intent against Luke, but that doesn't mean he wanted to instantly kill him. He tortured him first.

The text says the lightning itself was lethal.

It's in the post you failed to respond to on page 4.

Where?

Yes. And Sidious has no reason to not kill the one guy who's threatening to ruin his plans of turning Galen to the Darkside. In fact he would want to end Rahm asap so exactly what happened ( Galen snapping out of the trance ) doesn't occur.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Where?
Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova
Yes.

https://sanchezsportsandscripts.files.wordpress.com/2015/07/nick-young-confused-face-300x256.png

You just edited your post.

Then it would say "DarthAnt66 has edited his post at etc. etc."

Huh.

How did you do that?

Edit: Testing.

??

Ah, apparently it doesn't show up after the first edit.

k. good chat

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
??

It doesn't show if you edited or not until after the first edit. Just did so on the last page.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
k. good chat

Well, it was more me finding out that you just lied. So yes, I'd say it was a productive chat.

What are you even talking about dude, lmfao? Like, Christ.

Has it really reached a point where you're trying to argue within the edits (or lack thereof)?

Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova
Well, it was more me finding out that you just lied. So yes, I'd say it was a productive chat.
Time to make another "KMC was right" thread then...

This isn't really apart of the argument. It's the fact that you pretended as if you didn't edit your post to try to make it seem as if I'd made a mistake when I didn't. I don't really understand what you were trying to do there tbh. Discredit me? Make it seem as if I was responding to something else? Seems kind of pointless to me, but then again so do most of the things you do.

Originally posted by Emperordmb
Time to make another "KMC was right" thread then...

I mean. It is kind of a strange thing for him to do. Like, it doesn't really benefit him in any way in regards to the debate other then to sidetrack it.

Where does it say I deleted my edit?

Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova
I mean. It is kind of a strange thing for him to do. Like, it doesn't really benefit him in any way in regards to the debate other then to sidetrack it.
An apparently nonsensical motive for lying didn't stop you from making the last one...

Originally posted by Emperordmb
An apparently nonsensical motive for lying didn't stop you from making the last one...

I mean, I think that one was a misunderstanding or something you just didn't remember because you were high.

I don't think Ant is high right now ( though given what he's been spouting I wouldn't be surprised ) and I know it couldn't have been a misunderstanding since I've just tested the editing mechanic and know what I responded to and Ant still denied it.

So since you misremembered my post, you're accusing me of editing my post? Wtf?

Just let it go, lmfao.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Where does it say I deleted my edit?

It doesn't but I remember the post I saw and I've just shown that the editing mechanic doesn't show it's been edited until after the first edit. And anybody else can test it for themselves if they like.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
So since you misremembered my post, you're accusing me of editing my post? Wtf?

The post happened a few minutes ago. I'm not misremembering anything. I know what you just attempted to do. I just don't really get what the point of it was.

Seems compelling.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Just let it go, lmfao.

I mean, sure if you want. I'm not mad about it. I'm just honestly curious about what you were trying to do there.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
What are you even talking about dude, lmfao? Like, Christ.

Has it really reached a point where you're trying to argue within the edits (or lack thereof)?

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Seems compelling.

Well, it's your word against mine but I don't really care who believes me. It's a non issue regardless. You and I know what occurred and that's all that really matters. I just don't get what the point of that was.

As I said it's a non issue. We don't have to continue with this if you don't want.

Not sure what "this" is, but OK?

It's you trying to pull of a weird trick for some reason and failing. Regardless you asked for the quote indicating the lightning was lethal?

What?

And yeah.

Nothing. As I said we'll put this to the side as it's clear you're not going to admit to anything.

One moment.