Morg(PC) vs Tutinax

Text-only Version: Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.



golem370
Two tough bastards face off.

Philosophía
Bump.

zopzop
Tutinax repeatedly humiliated Thor in a fight. He should beat Morg for the majority.

MrMind
morg with wol can probably do the same but easier

Stoic
Morg

Philosophía
Originally posted by MrMind
morg with wol can probably do the same but easier Yeah, I think this should be split into

a). Morg
b). Morg

leonidas
i'd take tutinax unless morg has the wol.

Bentley
Tutinax brutalizes any herald of Galactus

Stoic
Originally posted by Bentley
Tutinax brutalizes any herald of Galactus

No he doesn't he'd brutalize Kang, but Morg would cut the bacon off of his back. Those fear powers of his wouldn't work on a being touched by Galactus.

Bentley
Originally posted by Stoic
No he doesn't he'd brutalize Kang, but Morg would cut the bacon off of his back. Those fear powers of his wouldn't work on a being touched by Galactus.

Well, if you have proof that his fear powers would fail then you might've a point, they do a big difference in combat.

Morg got killed off by Ravenus and his seekers so I can't say I'm impressed by him awesr

Stoic
You've gotten the Heralds mixed up Bentley, it was the Gabriel Air Walker droid that was pieced by Ravenous. The Herald's of Galactus had their souls altered when Galactus imbued them with the Power Cosmic. Tutinax's powers may have a small effect on Morg if any at all, but make no mistake, Morg wouldn't hesitate in character to go for the kill. That's one difference between him and Thor. Thor attempts to subdue whever possible, while Morg was an Executioner by trade. Both versions should take this handily.

Bentley
Morg did get defeated and caught by Ravenous in Annihilation

The problem I have with the claim that Tutinax's powers wouldn't work is that without proof you're essentially neutering his powerset in Morg's benefit. Should he win vs a random deviant brick? He should. But should he win against Tutinax's full powerset? That's another discussion entirely.

Stoic
Morg? Are you certain? He met his end well before Annihilation began, unless I forgot something? Do you recall that Morg was nullified along with Tyrant? I'm not neutering anything. Morg has protection for things of that type.

Bentley
According to the databooks he got caught alive by the Annihilation Wave:

https://readcomiconline.to/Comic/Annihilation-The-Nova-Corps-Files/Full?id=83445#21


Edit: Do you have any scans of Morg resisting powers of a nature such as Tutinax's?

Stoic
Okay, Morg was nullified in his final battle with Tyrant. Much later Annihilus attempted to strip the Power Cosmic from Morg's corpse but failed. Morg should have never been a part of Annihilation. He was nullified along with Tyrant. What you saw was writers error. Ravenous fought Gabriel the Air Walker droid and defeated it. I don't recall Ravenous ever fighting Morg.

All Herald's of Galactus have their souls altered in order to resist the obstacles that they would encounter to stop them from their hunt for viable planets. This includes things that would hinder them mentally, or emotionally. He does that to them all. Also, it should be noted that Tutinax's emotion manipulation power didn't stop Thor from fighting, it hindered his performance. Thor did not have the protection of Galactus at that time to fend off the emotional assault. When Thor recently became the Cosmic King, Galactus did the same thing to him as he has with all others that were imbued with the Power Cosmic. He did the same to Dazzler, Nova, and to the Surfer as well. There's plenty of evidence to suggest that he'd do the same to Morg.

Bentley
Morg being captured by Ravenous was a speculation on my part since his team was tracking the PC users, but indeed we have only scans confirming he got captured alive

I'm going to have to disagree with the general statement that Heralds get blanket inmunity against Tutinax's ability without scans. I'm pretty sure Norrid was affected by Psycho-Man's abilities that are emotional manipulation

Stoic
Morg was dead, guy. Ravenous never fought Morg. Your entire stance is that he'd be affected by it. When did that translate into a victory for Tutinax? I'll have to go back and review Annihilation. Pretty sure that Ravenous never fought Morg. He fought the Surfer and Gabriel. Ravenous was also beast at that time per portrayal.

Bentley
My stance is that inmunity needs to be proved by scans, so far I'm the only one that has brought an instance of emotional manipulation working or failing (Surfer vs Psycho-man).

Stoic
Psycho Man and Tutinax are two entirely different characters just like the Surfer and Morg have completely different personalities. Is there one instance in all of his appearances that Morg actually feared anything? In his very first appearance when everyone he knew fled in panic of Galactus, Morg refused to run. He did the opposite, he tried to attack Galactus. This is why Galactus saw favor in him. Tutinax's powers may work to a degree, but Morg to my recollection showed that he was more prone to the fight response over the flight response. At least in the vast majority of his appearances.

Like I said, you seem to be hell bent on whether or not his psychological stimulation powers would work against Morg, and they in truth may have some sort of an affect upon him, but they wouldn't have the same effect upon him as they did on Thor.

Both Thor and the Surfer fear the loss of life. Morg sat there and felt nothing as his entire race was destroyed by Galactus. There was only one encounter that he may have arguably shown fear, and that was when he used the Ultimate Nullifier on Tyrant. At the last moment he attempted to sever himself from total nullification, but was that fear, or an attempt to cheat the UN's process?

Is there one scene that Morg shows fear? I stand by my previous point even if you'd like to feign ignorance. Those touched by Galactus have resistance to psychological assaults. You stating that you were the only one presenting evidence is actually a lie. Don't attempt to insult my intelligence Bentley. We both know that there are citings.

Bentley
Originally posted by Stoic
Those touched by Galactus have resistance to psychological assaults.

Except I already provided an instance of the exact same power working on a character powered by Galactus. We have zero reason to assume it constitutes a proper defense at this point. Feel free to cite an instance of actual resistance from Morg

Stoic
Originally posted by Bentley
Except I already provided an instance of the exact same power working on a character powered by Galactus. We have zero reason to assume it constitutes a proper defense at this point. Feel free to cite an instance of actual resistance from Morg

They use different means to manipulate emotions. Not the same guy or the same power. Nice try though. Huh? You don't understand? Thor wasn't in a catatonic state, he was being hindered but still able to fight. Why in the world would Morg even need to fight up close? He simply flexed and blew the planet that he got the WOL from up.

Stoic
Actually, the more that I think about it the more of a mismatch that this becomes. It would take at least 2 to 3 Tutinax level opponents for this to be even given how many Heralds it took to fight him.

Bentley
If you are going to outright deny a character of the use of his abilities when faced with proof I don't think there is any point in arguing further really. Your claim was that the heralds were inmune to emotional manipulation and it was debunked, you then shifted goals claiming they'll be inmune to "any other" emotional manipulation is just intellectually dishonest because it's straight un impossible to prove.

Stoic
Proof? What proof? You're using Psycho Man as an attempt to make an argument for Tutinax. I said that Tutinax's powers in no way stopped Thor from fighting. It didn't place him in a catatonic state where it allowed Tutinax to Tee-Off on Thor unanswered. Thor was still able to fight back. What I am now saying is that yes his powers may work on Morg, but they won't place him into a catatonic state due to the Power Cosmic's mitigating factors. Where does that leave us?

Morg cuts the bacon off his back.

Bentley
Fear would keep Morg from making the smart choices and would certainly make it more difficult to push his versatility advantage as much as he otherwise could. Hesitation is also a terrible thing to do in the middle of a fight and it certainly hindered Thor greatly when he fought Tutinax

It's definitively not clear cut the exact consequences of this power in fight but in my opinion it'd turn a melee combat in favor for Tutinax

Stoic
The smart choices? You mean like swinging his axe? An axe swing capable of cleaving planets in two. Show me where Tutinax's powers stopped Thor from fighting back. You have no point here.

Bentley
Fear leads to hesitation and dulls reflexes which is exactly what happened to Thor when he faced Tutinax. He was literally unable to look straight at Tutinax and the deviant got the better of him despite mjolnir in melee. And when they got their second round with Thor knowing the fate of the universe was at stake... He still fell to Tutinax

Philosophía
Originally posted by Bentley
And when they got their second round with Thor knowing the fate of the universe was at stake... He still fell to Tutinax That was legit hilarious, but typical of Thor.

Stoic

Bentley
I'm trying to make the argument that Tutinax's power will work just like they did agains Thor who was actually resisting.

The problem on asking whether Morg has felt fear or not is that we look at his capacity of overcoming fear as opposite to him being uncaring of consequences. Because in this instance fear will be forced into him and the fact of not giving a phuck might just actually make the fear work all that much better. When Wraith made the Phallanx feel fear for the same time they were entirely unable to overcome it. So there is even a chance Morg becomes more crippled than Thor did.

But ultimately I know we cannot prove whether Morg fought off fear or was just a sociopath about it, so I'm not going to make a clear cut stance on the subject. For me having Tutinax's abilities working as they had in the past seems the more fair outcome based in the evidence presented.

Stoic
You realize that Morg never even has to get within range of Tutinax right? Let's say that since both opponents begin with working knowledge of each other that he decides to spam planet destroying cosmic blasts at him with that axe of his. When does Tutinax have time to do anything. In character Morg is a merciless executioner unlike Thor who typically opts to subdue his opponent over straight out killing them or teleporting them into the nearest black hole. I don't believe that Tutinax actually has the might to defeat Morg head on, but nothing stops Morg from ending this from a distance. You realize that during the last appearances of Morg, that he was actually able to go toe to toe with Thanos? This actually made sense since he was able to route all of those Heralds. That is above Tutinax's weight class.

People used to believe that Ghost Riders Penance Stare would turn Thanos into a wet noodle, but as I argued before it ever happened, he actually enjoyed it. In my opinion, fear of something has to actually exist in that person in order for it to work on them, and Morg appeared to be fearless. As I said, he attempted to attack Galactus a giant before he ever had any powers, despite full knowledge that he could have simply stepped on him. I believe that the fear powers would work albeit that there would be some mitigating factors due to the Power Cosmic, but for the most part, Morg would be nearly immune to it due to his base psychological makeup. As I mentioned in terms of the fight or flight response, Morg lacked the latter. This citing on the character holds a lot of weight that can't be simply waived away.

Morg is his physical superior. Morg is more powerful. Morg lacks fear of death, or the loss of his life or that of others. Morg was able to fight pretty evenly with Thanos.

In my opinion, he would absolutely destroy Tutinax.

Bentley
I did bring an example of entities without fear that become useless after feeling fear, so how would that go is not clear cut. It doesn't necessarily mean it'll be worse nor that they'll fare better, we just don't know, but for the thread's purpose I think it shouldn't be the defining factor.

As I mentioned earlier fear can lead to making bad decisions so Morg who should by all means keep his distance might not do so, also due to his personality he might've the inclination to duke it out and that's where I believe Tutinax has an edge. He's at least as strong as Thor weilding his hammer with full motivation so whether that outclasses Morg or not might come to perceptions of the two characters.

If you think Morg trounces Thor casually in a physical contest then I get how you'd see Morg having a clear physical edge, in which case you're free to have that opinion I don't have particular objection to that at this point in time.

Stoic
The problem with your example is that you attempted to omit a relevant character with an irrelevant one. Psycho Man can not be used as any sort of evidence for Tutinax. The difference between them isn't a guesstimate, it's right on panel. We are no longer on the if it would work on Morg portion of the arguement, we are well past that. Let's move on and away from Psycho Man.

What we are arguing is how effective his fear emotion manipulative powers would work on a proven to be fearless character ready in an instant to jump to his death. The deepest embedded emotion known to humans is the urge to evade ones imminent death to the degree that it at times looks heroic. Well yeah, Morg lacked that response. Psychologically speaking, there was no fear response in the form of flight present within Morg. None. Can you draw water from a place that is absolutely devoid of moisture? Of course not.

So now that we've used on panel citations to emphasise the differences between Morg, and the very relevant Thor encounter with Tutinax, we should be able to move away from Tutinax's powers having any effect on Morg, because as I said, Morg to my recollection hasn't even one showing to draw upon the conclusion that his brain was capable of processing the fear response that a normal brain would. A Psychologist would immediately believe that he had a damaged brain. In his case it would be the amygdala portion.

Since we are no longer at that stage in this discussion, we should be exploring how the physically Low to Mid Herald level character known as Tutinax would do against the High Herald to Mid Trans character known as Morg. Let's face it, if Tutinax wasn't actively hindering Thor, he would've gotten his ass kicked in.

Wait do I have grounds to call Morg a Mid Trans level character? Absolutely, because we are using base Power Cosmic Morg, and the amplified Morg with the Power Cosmic and Water's of Life. In my opinion, Tutinax wouldn't even defeat the base version, so there's no need to delve into deeper water, by wondering how well he'd do against the amplified version of Morg.

Bentley
Originally posted by Stoic
Let's face it, if Tutinax wasn't actively hindering Thor, he would've gotten his ass kicked in.

That's why we spend time mainly talking about this ability working because it clearly helps him climb tiers.


Originally posted by Stoic
Wait do I have grounds to call Morg a Mid Trans level character? Absolutely, because we are using base Power Cosmic Morg, and the amplified Morg with the Power Cosmic and Water's of Life. In my opinion, Tutinax wouldn't even defeat the base version, so there's no need to delve into deeper water, by wondering how well he'd do against the amplified version of Morg.

I do not thnk Tutinax beats amped Morg, he'd need to have a massive glass jaw for that to happen and as far as I recall from that arc nothing suggest he has it.

As far as Morg being absolutely unable to experience fear I would need concrete proof of this claim as we already know being a herald of Galactus doesn't provide night inability to feel. Him not shown any fear in his showing is not quite enough because absence of proof is not proof of absence, and iit sounds like just an opinion in the best of cases.

I'd like to hear the impressions on other posters on whether Morg should be affected by Tutinax's abilities or not.

Stoic
Would you like me to PM you a site that you could go to to find out? Like I stated, there is no example in his appearance to show that he feared anything. I gave you examples. I'll PM you the site, it may have the older Silver Surfer issues of Morg's first apperances through to his death. I know that his first apperance was before the Herald Ordeal arc, which was Silver Surfer #75 of vol. 2 I believe? Anyway let me PM you the site so that you can see what I mean about Morgs psychological profile. He was absolutely fearless. That was the difference between Morg and Norrin. Norrin could be baited with his past love for Zenn-La and Shalla Bal, Morg on the other hand loved executing anything that breathed.

Philosophía
Originally posted by Bentley
I do not thnk Tutinax beats amped Morg, he'd need to have a massive glass jaw for that to happen and as far as I recall from that arc nothing suggest he has it. Coward.

Stoic
No he isn't he simply needs time to review why my opinion of Morg is so high concerning emotional manipulation. There is cleary something wrong, or abnormal about Morg's psychological makeup. There has to be when he plunges headlong into a battle with a being billions of times more powerful than him without hesitating.

Text-only Version: Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.