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If Neo is a program, or half program, half human, what type fo program would he be? And how would that help the humans on the outside? Cause if he was half robot, he would have to have some type of power, like the sentinels?

Also, if Neo is a program, that would also make Smith in Bane's body a program. What would be his function and what would powers would he inherit in the mortal body? Or is it just that his brain possesses the body without the same powers as when he is in the matrix?
Doesn't it rack your brain

So is Neo a program or human?

I think neo is a "control" within the matrix. He is the end of the cycle. His body in the real world could be just a body "grown" for that program. What I'm trying to say is: the human mind is developed partly by genetics, i.e. who you are, how you act etc. The machines seem to be growing bodies in fields without parents and therefore without a genetic heritage. Therefore Neo could quite possibly be a program that was implanted in a human host at birth. It is quite an interesting idea. or am I just talking rubbish?

NO that is a good idea, I think it could possible be that, how would the oracle and architect know that he is the one, they would have to search through all of those fields. He could be a program put into the body for the soul purpose of being the one. interesting thought. But what if he isn't a program, is that possible?

What is your defintion of making a choice?

So it is only possible that Neo is not a program if he can have no choice and not base everything on algorithms? Meaning he is not governed by some higher power or law?

I disagree only by the fact that there is a difference. The oracle talked about how a machine or program is governed by laws and rules, free will only comes into play when they willingly disobey or obey. Humans for example have that choice to willingly obey and disobey.

I would have to agree with you there. Then what is Neo's predetermined programming?

I called the Oracle to ask, but I got her machine.

hehehe

Wouldn't that be nice to have her around.

It would be sweet.

... Then again, so would being able to dodge bullets (or make orgasm-cake).

I wouldn't mind having that receipe myself.

Assuming that there is no randomness in the world (including any external reality we do not know of, or the reality we experience), then it would seem everything is determined, which seems to be how Serpent sees the world. My apologizes if I misinterpreted your view *nods*

Still, there might be possible to create a complex system that no-one can predict the outcome of. The resources needed to predict the outcome can only be achieved by creating a duplicate, or even more complex system, than the original complex system - and if the new system can operate faster than the old one, and indeed predict the outcome before the original, they should use that improved system instead of the original system (because it is more efficient.)

In the end, the creator would not have full control of the outcome at the time the system is launched (time as measured in the "creator's" world.)

Neo could be such a complex system (or program.)

The only way to control him, would be to create several other (totally separated) simulations and let other (slightly modified) Neos operate under similar, or slightly different circumstances... Until you get the wanted results (whatever they might be.)

From the creator's point of view, these simulations could be run in several different computers simultaneously... or, if computer resources are scarce, they use the same computer over and over again... and change the conditions of the simulations a bit each time.

What this boils down to, I guess, is making several time-lines possible (but in a simulated world) EVEN if the simulated world is deterministic.

The time-lines are sought in a deterministic fashion though... Those making the decisions (or the computers) would still be determined by the world THEY live in.

However, that is not very relevant to the plot of a movie. At some point, the creator(s) have a goal with the simulations, and they strive for it. I think this motivaton is what matters most (it's not particularly interesting that this goal was put in their mind by some deterministic series of events - that's just some premises we have to accept as a background story to the movie.). The line should be drawn somewhere.

(The whole argument assumes that determinism is truly global.)

]

But serpent, as u said, that the one who controls created the rules. But that is in a world bound by rules. If for instance that world was know to be re-formable (lost for a better word) then the rules do not apply to those within. As Morpheus said "Some rules can be bent...others can be broken"

just testing this thing sorry

But the question about the rules being broken, is there a higher law which ensures that a person can not leave a certain limit. For example, We live on an island inside of a fence. I break through the fence, thereby allowing myself access to the rest of the island, but I cannot leave the island?

btw -- obeying the rules on one level may appear as "breaking the rules" on another. Assuming you are occupying one level and manifesting on another.

I've got a question for you all? The architect while talking to Neo said that if Neo didn't diseminate his code in the source, it would destroy the matrix. What is so important about Neo putting his code into the source?

Has anyone noticed that in the teaser trailer for matrix 2 and 3, a voice says 'you are ready to die for this man?' and trinity replies'youd better bel;ieve it'. does this not suggest to you that neo could possibly get captured in revolutions. i don't recall hearing this line in reloaded. let me hear your thoughts!

to serpant: i am surprised by two things; 1. there is another out there who delves further and further into the realms of thought and mind. 2. u r very literate, and the funny thing being...i can understand u! but seriously, u have definately put things into perspective. i was still thinking at the 'inside the fence' level and could not comprehend the existence of still further levels of "control". it is very interesting to hear others p.o.v. as it helps in each of our own understanding. although what u have said has brought a question to mind: through all those levels, surely there must be a top level, or a supreme plane of control, to which the one who controls THAT, controls all. so my question is this - if there are these levels, how many are there AND who is the master control? is it God? creator and watcher...?

This is again being dragged into an area in whuich the thrad does not belong. I will remind again all posters that taking these issues into higher philisophical areas is something that belongs in its OWN thread, now provided.

"oh how the mighty have fallen" i think ushgarak is right, unfortunately. but the path has been strayed from. to serpant, i enjoy thes philosophical discussions, and i would like to understand what a Solipsism is, so if u want we can do 1 of 2 things; create another thread (and u can inform me through this one) or we can continue this through email. but apart from that, i think neo is not a program as such. rather that he is a command inside the matrix that has the ability to do whatever he wants.

(You can discuss what the Matrix has to say about Solipsism and so forth in the new philisophical area you may note at the top of the main Matrix area)