Clone troopers vs Stormtroopers

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Total Warrior
So, the most elite army ever created vs the soldiers of the greatest empire ever existed

So assume there 100 clones vs 100 storms
Standard equipment, no vehicles etc

Who would win?

relentless1
storms got killed by ewoks, they pale in comparison to the clones who massacred the Jedi

Zenwolf
You may as well just flip a coin frankly.

TenebrousWay
Even if we dismiss the lousy showings of the stromtroopers, the clones should be, in general, physically and mentally superior and more fit to warfare than the average trooper.

deathslash
Stormtroopers have crappy armor, terrible aim, and sub par tactical ability. Clone troopers are trained from birth in how to fight, how to plan an attack, are a tightly knit army of brothers that always look out for each other, and regularly face an unstopping tide of steel and blasters that usually outnumbers them ten to one.

This is a massive mismatch.

Emperordmb
Clone troopers. All the apologetics for stormies in the world doesn't change the superiority of the clones.

Selenial
I love how genuinely inept everyone on this forum is on anything Star Wars related that isn't to do with force users.

Though I guess a lot of them are inept when it comes to that too mmm

Zenwolf
Originally posted by Selenial
I love how genuinely inept everyone on this forum is on anything Star Wars related that isn't to do with force users.

Though I guess a lot of them are inept when it comes to that too mmm

Hey now..

Emperordmb
Originally posted by Selenial
I love how genuinely inept everyone on this forum is on anything Star Wars related that isn't to do with force users.

Though I guess a lot of them are inept when it comes to that too mmm
Inept?

Zenwolf has provided some pretty solid arguments for stormtroopers being underrated in the past, but as far as I can tell the superiority of clone troopers is established in the lore regardless of whether or not stormtroopers are elite or absolute shit

Zenwolf
Never really saw any huge disparity between them frankly, any advantage is kinda negilable hence why I feel this is more a coin toss.

That and all the variables with it being 100 vs 100

Vorpal Ruin
Aren't a lot of Stormtroopers clone troopers?

darthbane77
Not sure, if Palpatine had thought the Stormtroopers would be significantly less effective than the Clones, I doubt he would have phased them out in the way that he did. He would have continued cloning them, despite the Clone Rebellion on Kamino. So their skill levels should be at least comparable. And given the time span from the Republic's peak in the Clone War, to the Empire's peak in the OT, the technology would have undergone a decent jump. So it's a case of whether or not we think the Clones' superior training (however small or large that gap might be) is enough to beat out the Stormtrooper's tech advantage. Personally, I feel the Imps are only marginally below the Clones in terms of combat skill, and that their tech advantage should be enough to make up the difference. So I'll side with the Stormtroopers for a majority, but I can just as easily see an argument for the Clones.

Emperordmb
Originally posted by darthbane77
Not sure, if Palpatine had thought the Stormtroopers would be significantly less effective than the Clones, I doubt he would have phased them out in the way that he did. He would have continued cloning them, despite the Clone Rebellion on Kamino. So their skill levels should be at least comparable.
Not really tbh, it's not unreasonable to suggest that Palpatine would trade off the efficiency of each individual trooper for a staggeringly greater number of them. A Kaminoan Clone takes ten years to produce and train, whereas a clown grown in a Spaarti cloning cylinder (as many of the stormtroopers were) takes only around a year, and training an enlisted recruit takes only two years.

If the GAR and Imperial Army were at war, the Imperial Army would have a staggering number advantage... however this is specifically 100 on 100, even numbers, whereas Palpatine was not opting for an army of less efficient soldiers that was the same size as the one he had before.

Originally posted by darthbane77
And given the time span from the Republic's peak in the Clone War, to the Empire's peak in the OT, the technology would have undergone a decent jump. So it's a case of whether or not we think the Clones' superior training (however small or large that gap might be) is enough to beat out the Stormtrooper's tech advantage. Personally, I feel the Imps are only marginally below the Clones in terms of combat skill, and that their tech advantage should be enough to make up the difference. So I'll side with the Stormtroopers for a majority, but I can just as easily see an argument for the Clones.
The clone troopers of the GAR were trained from birth to do nothing but be soldiers and grew up with their comrades, whereas imperial storm trooper training for recruits is only two years, and the clones grown in spaarti cylinders were grown to maturity in only a year and only given flash-training... I think the people in this thread are seriously underplaying the difference in the length and quality of the training the clone troopers of the Republic and the Stormtroopers of the Empire underwent... that's not even to mention the considerably greater combat experience your average clone trooper would have in comparison with your average stormtrooper given the clone army was fighting a full-scale war against an army that had them considerably outnumbered whereas the Empire was fighting a war against a Rebel Alliance they significantly outnumbered who usually resorted to guerrilla tactics against the Empire.

If there were vehicles and artillery involved, I could see your point about the differences in technology, however this fight is 100 vs 100 standard equipment no vehicles, and as far as their armor goes, stormtrooper armor is more of a tradeoff than an advancement over clone trooper armor, with clone trooper armor being able to withstand more direct damage but stormtrooper armor being better suited for the environment (in fact I'd go so far as to say Clone troopers have the advantage here, since unless this fight takes place in some seriously hazardous terrain, being able to withstand damage is far more important than coping with environmental hazards), and as far as I can tell their standard armaments are quite similar though the stormtrooper's E-11 seems a bit more advanced than the clone trooper's DC-15S.

All in all, the technology difference wouldn't be all that prevalent in this fight given there are no vehicles and artillery or special units and that these soldiers are equipped with standard weaponry, of which the armor is a tradeoff and the stormtroopers' blasters are superior, however either way generally if you shoot someone they stay down, so I'd say the underplayed difference in training here is more than enough to outweigh the storm troopers having better blasters.

deathslash
Originally posted by darthbane77
Not sure, if Palpatine had thought the Stormtroopers would be significantly less effective than the Clones, I doubt he would have phased them out in the way that he did. He would have continued cloning them, despite the Clone Rebellion on Kamino. So their skill levels should be at least comparable. And given the time span from the Republic's peak in the Clone War, to the Empire's peak in the OT, the technology would have undergone a decent jump. So it's a case of whether or not we think the Clones' superior training (however small or large that gap might be) is enough to beat out the Stormtrooper's tech advantage. Personally, I feel the Imps are only marginally below the Clones in terms of combat skill, and that their tech advantage should be enough to make up the difference. So I'll side with the Stormtroopers for a majority, but I can just as easily see an argument for the Clones. Do stormtroopers have anything on clones technology? I know that their armor is undeniably garbage and the vast majority of them couldn't hit the broad side of a barn, so how is this going in favor of the stormtroopers?

darthbane77
I was actually not aware of a lot of that. Interesting. Then again, my area of expertise is definitely not the Clone War/Empire eras. I'll have to look into it some more.

Zenwolf
Originally posted by Zenwolf
Never really saw any huge disparity between them frankly, any advantage is kinda negilable hence why I feel this is more a coin toss.

That and all the variables with it being 100 vs 100

Emperordmb
a lifetime of training vs 2 years of training and clones grown in a year seems like a disparity.

Zenwolf
Originally posted by Emperordmb
a lifetime of training vs 2 years of training and clones grown in a year seems like a disparity.

There's only so much training before it becomes redundant, a lifetime is not needed. It's not like the clones weren't still getting killed no matter how much training they had.

deathslash
Originally posted by Zenwolf
There's only so much training before it becomes redundant, a lifetime is not needed. It's not like the clones weren't still getting killed no matter how much training they had. that was usually because they were out numbered 10-1. Just look at the feats of random clones for instance: Hevy soloed a few squads worth of droids before achieving his primary mission of blowing up the base that he was in (this happened after he downed a few commando droids btw), the clones on umbara took out a legitimate Jedi Master in the form of General Krell, Cut (a clone that wanted nothing to do with the war) soloed multiple commando droids on his own. All that without even bringing up the clone commandos.

DarthAnt66
Clones, no question.

Selenial
Originally posted by Emperordmb
Inept?

Zenwolf has provided some pretty solid arguments for stormtroopers being underrated in the past, but as far as I can tell the superiority of clone troopers is established in the lore regardless of whether or not stormtroopers are elite or absolute shit

Not everything is aimed at you honey, though...Originally posted by Emperordmb
however this is specifically 100 on 100, even numbers, whereas Palpatine was not opting for an army of less efficient soldiers that was the same size as the one he had before.

Source?



This seems like an entirely baseless and conjecture based argument however, you have zero factual evidence backing this up. Besides, as Wolf has said, after a certain amount of time training becomes routine not necessarily rapid advancement. The vast majority of the Clone's training regiment would also be fitness training, which doesn't require formal training, only the fittest and best soldiers were even accepted into the Stromtrooper academies.

You also don't seem to understand, or seem to take into account, the phenomenally different training regimens the Clones and Stormtroopers were subjected to. Believe it or not, time is not the be all end all of development, pushing yourself beyond your perceived limits is often far more advancing than pushing yourself close to your limits on a daily basis. To that end, Stormtroopers were trained under barbaric circumstances, on high gravity planets such as Carida that subjected their muscles to agonising weight until they adapted. Stormtroopers were killed left right and center during training, not stunned using dummy blaster rifles. The fact of the matter is Stormtroopers were expected to excel far beyond the capabilities of a Clone in their training stages or die, two years was enough to force that level of growth. This is idea is perhaps best manifested in the fact that B3 Ultra Battle Droids - considered a challenge for Windu and Tiin together - were training foes on Carida, these droids were designed to tear through Clones like knives through butter, and would never have been standard training targets during the Galactic Republic.

By all means, come at me with actual proof that one training regime is better than another, but the notion that the Clones had better training because it was longer is absolutely farcical.

Beniboybling
Stormies squish.

Zenwolf
Originally posted by deathslash
that was usually because they were out numbered 10-1. Just look at the feats of random clones for instance: Hevy soloed a few squads worth of droids before achieving his primary mission of blowing up the base that he was in (this happened after he downed a few commando droids btw), the clones on umbara took out a legitimate Jedi Master in the form of General Krell, Cut (a clone that wanted nothing to do with the war) soloed multiple commando droids on his own. All that without even bringing up the clone commandos.

1. This would be impressive if not for the little facts that battle droids are pretty dumb and their accuracy is based on a basic algorithm which gives them terrible accuracy I mean Hevy was literally just side stepping at one point, the opposition here aren't droids. Comparison to opponents, the Rebels were far better than battle droids.

2. Yeah, cause the 501st an elite legion of Clones are representation of your average Clone Trooper.

3. Damaged Commando Droids, it's not as impressive really. I mean the droids were easily taken out by a partial destroyed table and a chair.

deathslash
Originally posted by Zenwolf
1. This would be impressive if not for the little facts that battle droids are pretty dumb and their accuracy is based on a basic algorithm which gives them terrible accuracy I mean Hevy was literally just side stepping at one point, the opposition here aren't droids. Comparison to opponents, the Rebels were far better than battle droids.

2. Yeah, cause the 501st an elite legion of Clones are representation of your average Clone Trooper.

3. Damaged Commando Droids, it's not as impressive really. I mean the droids were easily taken out by a partial destroyed table and a chair. 1. You're going to have to show me some stormtroopers that actually had good aim in order to put them above battle droids.

2. It's a good thing that Fives and Echo were considered to be among the worst of the clones (at one point, it was being considered whether or not to get rid of them) and we all know what they accomplished. You want me to bring up Cody, or Wolfe, or Gregor, or Ponds? Hell, a geriatric Rex is still a match for stormtroopers.

3. One man vs about eight partially damaged commando droids isn't impressive. no expression How about you show me any normal stormtrooper that has a similar accolade.

While I'm at it, show me how stormtroopers win with their subpar tactics, non impressive weapons, and godawful aim.

Hell, even their armor is garbage in comparison to the clones.

cs_zoltan
Sel debating something that's not politics. What year is this?

Zenwolf
Actually hold up, Total, what versions are we using here?

Total Warrior
Originally posted by Zenwolf
Actually hold up, Total, what versions are we using here? average clone trooper (so no 501st legion or something) vs average stormy (so no 501, or inferno squad) if that's what u meant

Zenwolf
Originally posted by Total Warrior
average clone trooper (so no 501st legion or something) vs average stormy (so no 501, or inferno squad) if that's what u meant

I mean what canon.

Total Warrior
Ah, Disney canon

Zenwolf
Originally posted by Total Warrior
Ah, Disney canon

Ew.


Ok then I retract literally everything I just said, Clones stomp this.

deathslash
Originally posted by Zenwolf
Ew.


Ok then I retract literally everything I just said, Clones stomp this. thumb up glad we can come to an understanding.

Selenial
Originally posted by Zenwolf
Ew.


Ok then I retract literally everything I just said, Clones stomp this.

Still debatable, we have a biased view because we see the good clones and the shit Stormtroopers (IE backwater planet soldiers or navy guards).

Don't forget TCW is the show that shows standard clones running out of cover to fight B-1 battle droids in a ****ing melee fight, and getting massacred etc.

Selenial
Originally posted by cs_zoltan
Sel debating something that's not politics. What year is this?

I get nostalgic.

Zenwolf
Originally posted by Selenial
Still debatable, we have a biased view because we see the good clones and the shit Stormtroopers (IE backwater planet soldiers or navy guards).

Don't forget TCW is the show that shows standard clones running out of cover to fight B-1 battle droids in a ****ing melee fight, and getting massacred etc.

I mean....I guess, but I just know that thanks to Rebels, Stormtroopers aren't going to be anywhere near their Legends incarnations. You know that with those showings, writers might go off of what was shown in Rebels and it's just....ew.

I mean what the hell kind of training was that in that one Rebels episode? That was deplorable. The commander did say

"In a few short weeks, you will leave as soldiers. Ready to serve your Emperor!"

Unless they have other training...that's what Disney has now and frankly with the way they treat the GE in other aspects...not expecting much. I have a hard time giving Canon the benefit of the doubt when it comes to the Empire.

Legends Storms would piss themselves laughing at such training. Imperial Army Troopers would piss themselves laughing too.

Clones had shown much better training qualities in Canon and just better overall frankly.

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