Leo vs Darksaint - Amalgam Tier Wars part I

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This will be an amalgam battle. Full integration of powers and memories of each character are in play.

leonidas will represent the combo of triathlon/darkhawk/spiral
darksaint will represent black tarantula/Sebastian shaw/aurora.

The battlefield is a 1000 hole golf course with water, club house, and mountains nearby. We appear randomly on the course, 0.5km apart. There is a 3 post limit following the opening post by each competitor.

prep time rules: each competitor is in an unbreakable/unbreachable warehouse that floats freely in the negative zone. nothing can be brought in and no one can leave the warehouse, but other than that they can do whatever they can in that 10s. the time is equaled among all competitors, with speed being unable to lengthen the subjective time.

Judges: bentley, style, damborg

Leo's opening post:


Post 1

Well. I certainly didn't think I would be celebrating my victory with the OP, but there you go.

Let's address things in reverse order.

As predicted, Leo attempted to use low showings and PIS. As I have shown, he can take the entirety of Gambit's power. Should I play the same game? Need I showcase Gambit's full deck against Gladiator? More recently, he charged himself with so much energy it was akin to getting hit by Thor (and thus, broke out of Box's cell). But this time, he now has BT's HF on top (which is now amped).

Not sure what Leo is on about, though, when he talks about wind resistance etc. Aurora seems to do just fine confused Moreover, what does he think I'm using to move around, puppy power? I'm expending energy as I fly at high speeds, discharging my calming light, etc. To go the overloading route is....strange. After all, even if I did feel like I was being overloaded, unlike Shaw, I could just...blast even more. BT has eye blasts. Aurora has her light show. Any showings of Shaw being overloaded are moot, as I have a pressure release valve. As seen, she can just blast away:

But good to see, though, that he has used Betsy's feats for himself. Next post, I will use Flash and Quicksilver scans for Aurora.

Psylocke, who managed to do what Shadow King, Phoenix Jean Grey and Prof X combined, Emma, Stepford Cuckoos etc were unable to do, and mind rape Fantomex - THAT Psylocke, is now sharing feats with Spiral. Because they both have TP, lol.


At least when I used Northstar, he's in the same ballpark as Aurora. Jeez Louise.

But yeah, keep going with those psi-blasts. Emma couldn't stop Shaw, and that was before he was amped. Aurora laughs at psi blasts:

So yeah, using Psylocke (who has infinitely better feats) against an unamped Shaw who doesn't have a HF, or Aurora on top, is...yeah.

And now, we come to the meat of his post. His strategy.

That was his opening strategy. Eurgh.

He's invisible. OK, no problem. I don't mind, lol - my calming light does not rely on me seeing her.

Here, she does it again, against the Wrecking Crew (just thought I'd throw that in there).

And here she is, doing a massive burst:

And again:

I don't care if I can't see him, lol. Be invisible. But when my light hits him (at the speed of, well, not Mach 4 that's for sure) he's going to be putty in my hands. Let's continue.

He ports away....using his...EXCEPTIONAL speed.


What speed? Oh yeah, a scan of Darkhawk flying at....Mach 4.

Mach. FOUR.


I show a scan of her internally thinking Aurora can easily do Mach 50...Walter Langowski saying she can do near lightspeed - and leo's chuffed that Darkhawk can do Mach 4? Oh my.

IOW, no one can say how or even whether it would work on Aurora, but hey, here's some no-name speedster (lemme guess, judges, you ALL had to click on that wiki link lol) that it totally worked on!

As predicted, some PIS showings. In other news, Deathstroke is Flash-level and Batman is a lightspeeder, lol.

But yeah, he somehow ports away (with his Mach 4 speed lol - in fact, let's be generous and say his 3x argument is somehow valid - so he's now Mach 12 lol) and then...attempts his bestest to sense me.

Whilst I am desperately trying to get him to sense me, lol.

By the by - Triathlon's powers are to be 3x peak human. Not 3x his base, or to amp his strength to be 3x whatever he starts off with, lol. Amalgamating him doesn't mean 3x Darkhawk, or Spiral - just that he stacks the strength/speed/agility of someone who is 3x peak human. As seen in this scan (thanks Leo!):

Lol. Anyway, let's continue.

He walks RIGHT into my trap. The instant he gets hit by my calming aura, it's all over for him. I am emitting it as much as I can, shining like a hippy beacon in the sky. If he wants to detect me, go ahead.

So to recap, my OP is valid. I enter the field, supercharged, and fly towards him whilst emitting my calming aura. I have shown that I am capable of massive bursts without being amped, whilst now, I'm supercharged. The beacon would be visible for miles around.

Meanwhile, he's invisible, trying to detect me whilst attempting to port out into the open (I believe he was attempting to port up into the sky? You know, where I am flying, and where there's no cover?)

My calming light hits him, and he loses the will to fight. No psi-bolts, no spells, nothing. Not that they would have worked anyway, even if he did manage to try.

I hit him, then liquefy his organs.


Post Two
As it was written, so it came to be. Hark at Leo trying to confuse and bamboozle everyone - did I not predict it in my OP?

thumb upI agree. PIS does not exist,I was wrong. Remember when I said Shaw took the entirety of Gambit's power? Who else did he do it to? Oh yeah:

But nah. Everytime a character fights, they are giving it their all. Rogue is using her utmost speed when fighting Spiral (didn't Leo use that as proof??), but NOT her utmost strength when facing Shaw. Seems a most strange double-standard.

Read Box's words (I have already posted the scans, so needn't bother). It could be broken - but only if someone on the level of Thor punched Shaw. That's how much energy Shaw would need to break out.

And break out he did.

Moreover, note, judges, that in the ENTIRETY of Leo's posts, OP and otherwise - he neglects to address Black Tarantula, and his HF. Strange, that.

Except...you must have missed the panel where he palmed an Imperius Rex punch. Which was the point of the scan.

Reread that scan. Holocaust, whilst not a planet breaker (and note, judges, I never said he was), is still 'a being of horrific power'. He doesn't have to be a worldbreaker, to still have incredible amounts of power, power which Shaw took.

Oh my. So we are now lowballing, are we? And against Captain America, of all people! There are so, so many things wrong with this argument....Shall we name them all? Cap's plot aura, the fact Gambit wasn't out to kill, wasn't pouring his full deck (so to speak, unlike against Gladiator stick out tongue) into it...the list goes on.

Really, leo, am disappoint.

As for recent portrayals? OK. Never knew we had a time limit on scan validity....Avengers Academy is also recent. And he charged himself up with Thor level power thumb up

It's missing...because it wasn't needed. She gets hurt by psi-blasts? Did you not see the last personality? She LOVES the pain.

Moreover, I have already posted Black Tarantula scans, of him on FIRE, fighting Spiderman casually etc. Being shot is annoying:

Psi-blast? He was shot through the head, lol.

Self-defeating? Leo literally shows her switching between personalities to get around TP attacks (thanks, Leo!) at WILL, and doing so successfully.

And this is without BT or Shaw stacked on top.

Erm...wait. First you say she has multiple personas (one of which, I must remind you, is pacifist) and now you say....she is limited to one, and therefore cannot use her pacifist powers? Wha?

Cool. I'm not trying to blind you. Obviously you still don't grasp my strategy - no doubt the judges will, though.

Cool. It's not TP though lol.

Cool. It's not possession either lol.

Erm...it shows it working? It made him tell the truth, lol.

Lol. Are you doing my work for me? It shows Sasquatch passing out from the strain of having to fight off Headlok's control and Aurora. Not sure why you said it was not working.....confused

So which is it? Doesn't Aurora have multiple personalities (which she can choose from at will, as you have so kindly shown), one of which is a pacifist persona? You're confusing me.

Because....she can't be blinded, possessed or TP'd? Cool, lol, the light is none of those.

Wait, so your OP is now to be invisible, port out of the way (at Mach 4? Lol) high into the sky, finding me (whilst tapping into the datasong), psibolting me, then pretending to be hit and stunned by me, allowing me to get in close, then do your hand dance? Uhuh.

Wait wait a minute here.

Your OP CLEARLY stated that I was going to overload myself. Your subsequent post, which I have now debunked at length, attempted to reinforce this.

NOW you're saying I will drain myself?

What is it to be? I have too much energy, or too little energy? Do I overload myself, or do I drain myself? Argument unclear.

Ah, the 1000 ton pencil argument.

Here's Superman lifting a pencil.

Here's Superman lifting 1000 tons.

Can he lift a 1000 ton pencil? Do you have scans? If no, he cannot do it! WIN!

Next. Despite me saying it over two posts, you REALLY don't grasp my tactics, lol. Once more, with feeling:

Oh yeah, the time limit of valid scans again. Here are scans of Spiral from the 80s, 70s, but noooo Leo wants yesterday's issue of Alpha Flight for Aurora. Again. I am amped here. Aurora at base can go near lightspeed. My character has Shaw's amping abilities.

Erm. No. No speeding away. I am liquefying your organs.

Yes. By specifically being unable to do so by mindbolts. She had to go and cast illusions - which is specifically NOT the attack you tried in your OP. You tried a psibolt, lol.

The security measures were on influencing minds. What were the barriers preventing them from doing again?

Oh yeah, that's right. READING Shaw's mind. Completely different. Try harderthumb up

So - like Emma specifically failed to do? And Psylocke? Who mindraped CASSIE NOVA? Fantomex? Yeah, ok, somehow Spiral can replicate that.

Remember, judges, this was Leo's OP:

Damn.That looks awesome.Remember when Leo laughed at my scans, saying how old they were, then touted how awesome his were?Remember how he said he had a forcefield?

That awesome scan is from Avengers Arena #3. March 2013. Here's the full sequence:


Just in case he argues no FF:

Oh wait, we're changing again? Psibolt or illusions? Thanks for acknowledging that a far superior telepath (Emma) was unable to psibolt him, though.

Lol. You don't pick and choose which peak human you're 3x of. Why not say you're 3xBatman?

First, I was going to overload myself. Then, I was going to drain myself. First, he was going to psi-bolt me. Then, he was going to dance an illusion.

He doesn't even know what my strat is (despite two posts). I'm not dancing away. His defense is nonexistent. He's trying to have 3xSpiral, whilst equating Psylocke to Spiral. Asking for specifics, when he himself gives none. Shows Aurora enjoying pain - whilst laughing that she can't. Posts old scans - then asks for recent ones, whilst ignoring recent scans.

Leo is now floundering all over the place,less of a hypnotic dance, more like an epileptic octopus.


pretty mediocre debating so far, expected better. go on tho

Post 3
So. Final post.

With this post, judges, I will summarise what my OP was, and some glaring mistakes in Leo's post.

It has not changed. I spend 10 seconds preptime amping myself. Shaw has shown that ALL of his base stats increase when he amps himself. Strength, speed, durability, endurance.

Remember, he is at base a normal human (with a b!tchin' dress sense). Like you, like me. No other abilities.

I start, at base, with Aurora's speed and light abilities. With BT's strength, speed, and HF. All combat skills. AT BASE.

I really cannot stress this enough. AT BASE, WITHOUT amping, I can do whatever my three characters can do when unamped.

Furthermore, it is not the same BZ that Philo and Celey had. NO CIS. This isn't Aurora's mind in charge, or Shaw's. I was wracking my brain wondering why Leo kept bringing them up, when I realised he has fundamentally misunderstood the BZ.

Why does he keep insisting that Aurora's 'fragile mind', or 'pacifist mind' is in play? I'm not choosing her mind, with BT's body or Shaw's powers. It's a Super Skrull-esque, completely NEW character who happens to have all of their powers and memories.

So, to summarise so far: At base,without amping, I can emit bursts of light and fly at extremely high speeds. Shaw's abilities uses energy he absorbs, to amp his natural abilities. Previously, this just means the same abilities a normal guy has. Except now I am amping a Super-Skrull who ALREADY has speed, strength, energy blasts, eyebeams, the durability to breathe and fly at high speeds and a kickass HF, amongst others.

Remember, Shaw, a normal human male (Class...0.2?), with normal human abilities, can absorb enough energy to amp himself to take on Rogue, Holocaust, Gambit, Namor, and give himself enough energy to replicate being hit by Thor.

With my base abilities all amped, I start the match by flying towards him. Yes, he is invisible, and I may be flying away from him (I did assume I was at least facing him), but my opening offensive tactic does not care for this.

It is an omnidirectional light beacon. Imagine a room, suddenly illuminated by a lamp in the middle (remember, I am in the sky). Does being invisible....mean you can't see the light? Remember, judges, his opening strategy was to actively try and FIND me. Recall, also, that his opening strategy was to fly up into the air, depriving him of any cover.

He says I need to stop and focus. Really? Where in ANY of his scans does it say that? Furthermore, remember, this is unamped Aurora. If a normal man can be amped to replicate Thor's punches (on average, of course - let's not go crazy and assume I can suddenly take on Glory, lol), well...imagine how my bursts of light suddenly appear.

A little segue - he keeps asking for scans of how my telepathic resistance goes up. Remember how I said Shaw was a normal human? You think a normal human can throw off Emma Frost's psibolts when she's actively trying to stop him, AND when she knows him well? I showed how she mindwhammied Mr Sinister, just because she knew Scott. Well, she's known Shaw for a hell of a lot longer than Scott, lol.

I showed that she can emit huge bursts of light (unamped). I showed that she can emit calming light (unamped). To emit huge bursts of calming light, and to ask for precisely the exact scan, is EXACTLY like arguing that Thor cannot lift a 1000ton pencil. I can go the same route. Show me Spiral reacting to a speedster of Aurora (UNAMPED)'s calibre. Super Sabre? A no-name d-lister? He can run on water, apparently.


That link, answers that to run on water, a normal human needs to run at 80km/hr. That's like....50mph. It's hardly an impressive achievement. Of course, I'm not saying Super Sabre isn't fast - but to tout
running on water as some kind of wowzah feat isn't exactly the best way to do it.

Then, I said he would drop his defences (as shown with Aurora and others) and will then lend speed, liquefying his internal organs. As shown, it went through adamantium skin.

He touts his forcefields. Yet, despite going into combat mode (and him using the EXACT same scans I did, to attempt to show how uber it was and how uber the FF was), he still got the gem ripped out of him in two or three panels. He didn't have the FF up? That's a sh!tty combat mode, lol, if it has no shields. He argues this was from a technopath - so does he have proof that it was hacked? Isn't he connected to the datasong, a constant flow of info from the universe? Doesn't Darkhawk have brute speed? Yet, a no-name d-lister (to use his words) simply just ripped it out of him. TOMBSTONE ripped it out of him. This FF isn't exactly that impressive - note that there have been almost no scans showcasing them. LOL at using a scan to highlight his combat mode....then arguing said combat mode has no shields.

He attempts to use Psylocke as a guide to how his attacks would work. Talks about his mental fortitude. Two things: one, the light isn't a mental attack, and two, her foes mean nothing. Apparently, Psylocke is a Spiral foe.

The Top is a Flash foe. Toyman is a Superman foe. And? Emma Frost is a Shaw foe, lol.

He misleads you with the Piledriver scan too - she only used it in the third to last panel, and then Piledriver was down (LET ME TRY SOME CALMING LIGHT):

The Human Torch scan? He didn't break free. Leo is misrepresenting it again. Johnny felt so good, he tried to 'share the warmth' (see the 2nd panel):

He was in full hippy mode there. Sharing, not fighting. And even then, Aurora just went full lightburst mode (which strengthens my argument). And you can see HT falling back down to Earth.

Leo then starts throwing in the kitchen sink - always a sure sign of desperation as he tries to bamboozle you judges with how impressive he can be. Sure, I freely admit - Spiral is indeed more versatile. She can cast illusions, teleport, mind-blast, has precog etc. That doesn't make her better in this match. On average, even with a sneak attack, Puck humiliates her:


She was limited in her powers - but only with regards to teleportation and magic. Precog? Skills? Teleportation? She still had them (you think you can punch me?):

Yet, Leo is turning her into some kind of Midnighter/Spiderman combo. When BT has - without being amped, and with his own base speed - taken on and destroyed Spiderman in h2h.

Northstar has taken on Spiral, and was literally running rings around her. Yes, Aurora is slower than Northstar - when she isn't amped Now, I have taken it, and amped her speed with Shaw's amping ability.

Judges, thank you for taking the time to read through all of this.

When the match starts, Leo is actively looking in my direction with his enhanced senses. I have amped what is normally a pretty good sized lightburst, into a massive...Sunbuster, if you will. A normal man with normal punching abilities can be amped to replicate Thor's punches - imagine a speedster with light bursts and a HF, then AMP that.

We know Leo's amalgam's durability is suspect. Speed is nothing to write home about. Has incredible sensory abilities. And has flown/teleported straight up into the air, without any cover, and is actively looking in my direction. I don't NEED to know where he is, I just need to shine.

He talks about using psibolts, then freely admits that Emma was unable to do the exact same thing he is talking about, despite having prep and prior knowledge.

His opening post said that I would overload myself (no doubt, when planning, he thought that was a surefire way to victory). Then realised, crap, he has this awesome BT, who has healed from a shot to the head, being blown up and set on fire, and has tanked Spidey with full Heart Force's best shots. Has the ability to discharge energy, and 'send' speed into a target. So he then switched, and now, I am apparently going to drain myself.

He talked about using mindbolts, then realised mindbolts are a bad way to go. So switched to illusions (note his 1st post). Then just handwaved all of my post away as 'irrelevant' when I brought up all these contradictions.

I'm not hoping he would see my light. I KNOW he will see my light, because he has enhanced sensory abilities (see his OP). I KNOW he is looking for me (see his OP). He WILL see it, and it will be his downfall, buying me the valuable second or so I need to hit him, and liquefy him internally. The speed lending was always the crux of my argument - I know I mocked him for not understanding my complex offence, but it really is true. The calming light is only to buy me the time to liquefy him - and note, so far, he STILL (despite my insistence on it in my OP) not even addressed it. The light was never my main offense, lol.




Doesn't seem like my vote was needed (Thankfully, less pressure.) but I'll give a little input too:


Okay so, I'm going to have to go with Leonidas, and here's why:

That was some excellent use of Spiral and your overall prep there. An invisible, super fast teleporter who can nuke DS's mind and nullify his powers, it's pretty fool proof. And DS is by no means weak, Shaw provides him with some pretty hax and tanky stats that essentially rocket him out of the tier with his self amping. Overall though, I was more convinced by the sheer lightning quick versatility attacks that Leo will be rocketing out, especially when the magnitude of the psychic attacks sunk in.

There was however a point in the debate that I actually had switched my vote to DS, and it had to do with his calming light. It's hardly impossible for that technique to work, and to be honest had the fight not started with 10 secs of prep which Leo used to get out of the immediate threat, Iprobably would have had to side with DS. It's incredibly hax for this fight. That said, Leo of course did a good job nullifying that hax ability, and pointing out that DS's proposed battle plan simply wasn't as likely as his own.

Good job guys. That was a cool read, thanks for inviting me to judge and congratulations to Leo, that gives you the 3-0.

I will burn you all to the ground.

Good match though! Was tres enjoyable, and good victory leo (beating me basically means you've won the tourney).

laughing out loud

sweet! thanks guys. i really wasn't sure how this would fall out. can't thank you enough for the prompt replies and detailed analysis.

ds, it was a pleasure and know that you died well. thumb up

Originally posted by Damborgson
had the fight not started with 10 secs of prep which Leo used to get out of the immediate threat, Iprobably would have had to side with DS. It's incredibly hax for this fight.
It's neither here nor there, but yeah, I would lean towards DS's strategy in a non prep scenario too. Leo's Inviso-porting is really compelling in this scenario though.

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