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So Jake Tapper asks Senator Sanders about the overwhelming costs associated with single-payer health care in California and Vermont, Sanders instead of addressing that instead to deflect. He said, "A single -payer health care system, in my view, and according to studies that I have seen, would save the average family significant sums of money."

No citation needed. What studies? I dunno. But again he points to Canada despite the Canadian Supreme Court ruled that prohibiting private medical insurance in face of long wait times violated the "Quebec Center of Human Rights and Freedoms" while also avoiding the bureaucratic nightmare that is consuming the health care and ignoring the scarcity that has led to rationing and substantial wait times. It also doesn't matter that according to Don Drummond, "an economist appointed by Ontario's Liberal government to help fix it finances, Canada's largest province is projected to see healthcare costs soar to the point where they will consume 80% of the entire provincial budget by 2030, up from 46% in 2010" or that according to the Fraser Institute, in 2015, "the average Canadian family contribute $11,735 in taxes for public health insurance."

And of course, Bernie went full leftist (never go full leftist) when he blames the fact that single-payer is unachievable because of opposition from the insurance companies, drug companies, and Wall Street.

But again this is Bernie Sanders who told small business owners that they deserve to go out of business and dodges all valid criticism and complaints and brushes them off with "The devil is in the details." Okay, what are those details then Bern?

Bernie is a delusional nutjob who was the absolute worse possible choice we could have had as president. Hillary is corrupt. You can handle corrupt. Trump is incompetent with no real view on government. You can handle that. Bernie is a hardened ideolog who would just have us end up like Venezuela. And yes, Bernie Sanders praised Venezuela as a model for ending income inequality when he said, "These days, the American dream is more apt to be realized in South America, in places such as Ecuador, Venezuela and Argentina, where incomes are actually more equal today than they are in the land of Horatio Alger."

But what did you expect from someone who praised breadlines and food rationing? Or who praised Fidel Castro in 1985...oh well, obviously he must have changed his mind with that praised...except he hasn't. When asked if he regretted that praise, Sanders just avoided the question and even said, "Cuba they have made some good advances in healthcare, they are sending doctors all over the world."

Yes, Cuba has amazing healthcare. Well except for the fact that Cuba doesn't even have aspirin or the ability to write a prescription for antibiotics because there were none.:

" survey carried out in pharmacies late last year by the local magazine Bohemia failed to find 211 of the medicines included on the official list of products produced to attend to the health of this Caribbean island nation's population of 11 million... 'They say scarcity of medicine is no longer such a serious problem, but I've been trying for days to buy aspirin in this pharmacy, and they always tell me there isn't any,' complained Mara Dolores Pea, a 60-year-old pensioner, outside her neighborhood pharmacy." Source

And the Chicago Tribute reported in 2005 that physicians are sacrificing quality for which just leads to patients being mistreated (Gary Marx, "Chavez Seeing to Cuba's Revival," Chicago Tribune, November 27, 2005, p. 3.).

I could go on all day about this lunatic nutjob Bernie Sanders.

Oh jeez, US healthcare is some of the expensive and ineffective in the world. They spend far less govt. expenditure in countries with single payer systems, including Canada. Comrade Bernie is what your country needs.

I always enjoy seeing Trumpers go loony over Sanders (aka Uncle Bernie) with their knee-jerking alarmist and utterly based on emtions "he would destroy the country and then the world!" rants and diatribes. Like totally get a grip and compose yourself, be a man. Jeez.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Oh jeez, US healthcare is some of the expensive and ineffective in the world. They spend far less govt. expenditure in countries with single payer systems, including Canada. Comrade Bernie is what your country needs.

USA is #1 in medical research, cancer care and survival rate, and cures.

And nothing says great healthcare like Canadians coming to the USA for health care.

America is #1, if you can afford it. :/

The problem with increasing minimum wages is it encourages automation and robotics. Seattle is learning that higher minimum wage that isn't paced with inflation has a negative effect.

A company there increased it to $15-20 dollars. Guess what, they had to fire people and cut hours.

Minimum wage is still out paced by inflation, but to the detriment of the workers.

Fed Min wage is currently at $7.25, it was $3.35 back in 1987. Pretty sure things cost considerably more now than 30 years ago and making an extra $156.00 a week probably not cutting it in today's economy.

Now I'm not saying raising it to $20.00 is the fix, but it's a starvation and debt wage as is.

Originally posted by ESB -1138
USA is #1 in medical research, cancer care and survival rate, and cures.

And nothing says great healthcare like Canadians coming to the USA for health care. Right, right, nothing quite says great healthcare like being ranked the worst in the developed world for the 5th time running.

Nothing quite says great healthcare like having an average life expectancy notably lower than that of 23 other countries with socialised medicine. Or having the highest child mortality besides, or a maternal mortality that is increasing. American healthcare is just great.

FYI: The US cancer survival stats are widely attributed to America's proclivity to over-diagnosis and over-treatment i.e. cancer being treated when treatment isn't needed, or detected ahead of time. This is flawed data, and does not prove that America's post-diagnosis care is #1. Instead mortality rates provide little to right home about, they are average at best.

The fact that America is leading in medical research is great, but hardly surprising considering the countries size and resources, and meaningless if that theory isn't being put into effective practice. But hey ho wadda you know? Trump plans to cut global medical research by 2.2 billion dollars. Yay.

Originally posted by Robtard
I always enjoy seeing Trumpers go loony over Sanders (aka Uncle Bernie) with their knee-jerking alarmist and utterly based on emtions "he would destroy the country and then the world!" rants and diatribes. Like totally get a grip and compose yourself, be a man. Jeez.

Bwahahahaha! Did you seriously just type this? I legit laughed out loud.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Right, right, nothing quite says great healthcare like being ranked the worst in the developed world for the 5th time running.

Nothing quite says great healthcare like having an average life expectancy notably lower than that of 23 other countries with socialised medicine. Or having the highest child mortality besides, or a maternal mortality that is increasing. American healthcare is just great.

FYI: The US cancer survival stats are widely attributed to America's proclivity to over-diagnosis and over-treatment i.e. cancer being treated when treatment isn't needed, or detected ahead of time. This is flawed data, and does not prove that America's post-diagnosis care is #1. Instead mortality rates provide little to right home about, they are average at best.

The fact that America is leading in medical research is great, but hardly surprising considering the countries size and resources, and meaningless if that theory isn't being put into effective practice. But hey ho wadda you know? Trump plans to cut global medical research by 2.2 billion dollars. Yay.

Yeah because we are supposed to believe that the Groups?People doing these RANKIINGS aren't Biased in any way or anything.....NO Not a Chance of that!

http://i.imgur.com/xpGLn4Y.jpg

Originally posted by Surtur
Bwahahahaha! Did you seriously just type this? I legit laughed out loud.

#triggered

Originally posted by Robtard
#triggered

Yeah but it is your natural state robbie.

Originally posted by Flyattractor
Yeah because we are supposed to believe that the Groups?People doing these RANKIINGS aren't Biased in any way or anything.....NO Not a Chance of that! FaKE nEwS!!!11

Originally posted by Robtard
#triggered

If finding your behavior comical equates to being triggered then by your own admission I have triggered you many times.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
FaKE nEwS!!!11

I do find that funny how Beni can say that the U.S has Sub Standard Healthcare right after how his country handled the Charlie Gard Affair.

But then hey....Late Term Abortion...am I right?

hurr durr, not another moron peddling that shit.

Ohhhh... Stooping to name calling already. Sign that You don't have a valid point to raise. But then You support Child Murder so....yeah.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
hurr durr, not another moron peddling that shit.

Morons do fall for shit filled nonsense, it's like they're drawn to it by some primal instinct.

Originally posted by Robtard
Morons do fall for shit filled nonsense, it's like they're drawn to it by some primal instinct.

Yes. You are like that.

Isn't finding cancer ahead of time a good thing? lol

Originally posted by Robtard
Morons do fall for shit filled nonsense, it's like they're drawn to it by some primal instinct.

Great irony overload here.

Originally posted by Surtur
Great irony overload here.

Originally posted by Robtard
#triggered

Originally posted by Robtard


You and your pals have done the irony overload thing too, so if that is being triggered okie dokie.

Originally posted by socool8520
Isn't finding cancer ahead of time a good thing? lol

Not for the pharmaceutical companies that make billions treating cancer patients.

Originally posted by Surtur
You and your pals have done the irony overload thing too, so if that is being triggered okie dokie.

Originally posted by Robtard
#triggered

If you say it enough times it might actually come true.

Originally posted by Robtard
#triggered

I think I would like to know ahead of time regardless if I have to pay for treatment. lol

Originally posted by socool8520
Isn't finding cancer ahead of time a good thing? lol The mortality rate is little different (in fact in some cases it appears to be worse) than countries that aren't so excessive in their diagnosis. So objectively speaking no, it appears to be a waste of money.

Not that that's the point, the point is survival rates don't accurately reflect the quality of the treatment.

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/oct/3/editorial-the-statistics-of-life/

Taking the IMR numbers at face value may be misleading.

https://mises.org/library/who%E2%80%99s-bias-against-free-market-healthcare

https://www.commentarymagazine.com/articles/the-worst-study-ever/

If this is true, I'm not sure how much merit their study has.

Originally posted by socool8520
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/oct/3/editorial-the-statistics-of-life/

Taking the IMR numbers at face value may be misleading."Maybe" being the key word here. It appears to offer little more than speculation.
The study I cited was from the Commonwealth Fund, which ranked based on quality of care, access, equity, and health:

http://www.commonwealthfund.org/~/media/images/publications/fund-report/2014/june/davis_mirror_2014_es1_for_web.jpg

They do consistently poorly in most categories.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
"Maybe" being the key word here. It appears to offer little more than speculation.
The study I cited was from the Commonwealth Fund, which ranked based on quality of care, access, equity, and health:

http://www.commonwealthfund.org/~/media/images/publications/fund-report/2014/june/davis_mirror_2014_es1_for_web.jpg

They do consistently poorly in most categories.

It did cite that some races have higher instances of SIDS, and the US is one of, if not the most diverse countries in the world so it could reasonably skew numbers. Also, what the US classifies as a life is different from other countries which also affects numbers. It also showed a graph that the WHO used to show life expectancy was also skewed. They did not factor out deaths related to fatal accidents and the like. The US is far from perfect when it comes to healthcare, but it does look like the report was biased towards universal healthcare systems. Just my take though.

Yes, and the article I posted explained that things like quality of care were highly subjective. Admittedly, things like equity and will not be looked upon favorably because if you can't pay, you won't get the best healthcare.

Originally posted by socool8520
It did cite that some races have higher instances of SIDS, and the US is one of, if not the most diverse countries in the world so it could reasonably skew numbers. Also, what the US classifies as a life is different from other countries which also affects numbers. It also showed a graph that the WHO used to show life expectancy was also skewed. They did not factor out deaths related to fatal accidents and the like. The US is far from perfect when it comes to healthcare, but it does look like the report was biased towards universal healthcare systems. Just my take though.

Yes, and the article I posted explained that things like quality of care were highly subjective. Admittedly, things like equity and will not be looked upon favorably because if you can't pay, you won't get the best healthcare. The timeliness of care is confusing to me since the link I provided showed much longer wait times in other countries for surgeries than the US.

I live in a country with socialized medicine and it's not great. It's really not great at all.

^ Where do you live?

Originally posted by socool8520
^ Where do you live? Lithuania.

Is their healthcare that bad?

Originally posted by socool8520
Is their healthcare that bad?
Depends on your definition of 'bad', but it certainly leaves a lot to be desired, especially for a country that's part of the EU. The healthcare quality outside of the largest 3 cities is a sad joke and even there it's mostly mediocre.

I thought that was what socialist healthcare was supposed to fix.

Originally posted by socool8520
I thought that was what socialist healthcare was supposed to fix. Socialism is often the cause of the ills it attempts to fix. And when it's not, it doesn't necessarily make things any better.

or maybe your country is just laem.

Originally posted by ArtificialGlory
Socialism is often the cause of the ills it attempts to fix. And when it's not, it doesn't necessarily make things any better.

You mean socialism didn't help your country? You guys just must be socialism'ing all wrong. If you were doing it the right way your country would be a utopia like all the other utopian socialist societies we have witnessed throughout history.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Right, right, nothing quite says great healthcare like being ranked the worst in the developed world for the 5th time running.

Nothing quite says great healthcare like having an average life expectancy notably lower than that of 23 other countries with socialised medicine. Or having the highest child mortality besides, or a maternal mortality that is increasing. American healthcare is just great.

FYI: The US cancer survival stats are widely attributed to America's proclivity to over-diagnosis and over-treatment i.e. cancer being treated when treatment isn't needed, or detected ahead of time. This is flawed data, and does not prove that America's post-diagnosis care is #1. Instead mortality rates provide little to right home about, they are average at best.

The fact that America is leading in medical research is great, but hardly surprising considering the countries size and resources, and meaningless if that theory isn't being put into effective practice. But hey ho wadda you know? Trump plans to cut global medical research by 2.2 billion dollars. Yay.

A few things of note. Obviously, I can't go through every country listed, but I do encourage others to do so. What I can say without any shadow of a doubt, is that these countries nowhere near as good as the USA.

Firstly, the infant morality rate is a long debunked myth. The USA ranks high on the infant morality list largely because we actually measure neonatal deaths, notably in premature infant fatalities, unlike other countries.

I'll admit that one thing you brought us is right: we don't have a great life expectancy. But that comes because as a consequence of freedom. Nobody will argue that personal responsibility and free choice is without negative ramifications for individuals who seek to abuse it.

As for quality care...well...I'm not sure what quality care means since that's a vague term that doesn't really mean anything until you define the term. Does Charlie Gard count as quality care?? Or how about the fact that the UK has banned obese people and smokers from getting routine surgeries?? Does that now count as quality care??

Originally posted by Beniboybling
or maybe your country is just laem.
That's true. At least we have some fairly decent private clinic options.

Originally posted by Surtur
You mean socialism didn't help your country? You guys just must be socialism'ing all wrong. If you were doing it the right way your country would be a utopia like all the other utopian socialist societies we have witnessed throughout history. surt gets it.

Originally posted by ESB -1138
A few things of note. Obviously, I can't go through every country listed, but I do encourage others to do so. What I can say without any shadow of a doubt, is that these countries nowhere near as good as the USA.I'm convinced.

Someone else posted an article that claimed something similar, but it was packaged as speculation not facts, so I'd appreciate evidence.

Please expand, which people are choosing to die early? And can you explain why maternal mortality is on the up? Seems deeply troubling.

From the report:

High-quality care is defined in the Fund's National Scorecard as care that is effective, safe, coordinated, and patient-centered.

It goes into detail on page 13 onwards - http://www.commonwealthfund.org/~/media/files/publications/fund-report/2014/jun/1755_davis_mirror_mirror_2014.pdf

Irrelevant.

That doesn't fall under quality of care at all, as they aren't getting any.

Hmmmm.....UK healthcare not looking so good in this article.

http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/health-and-families/health-news/nhs-uk-now-has-one-of-the-worst-healthcare-systems-in-the-developed-world-according-to-oecd-report-a6721401.html

Unfortunately, that's what 7 years of austerity does to your public services.

Originally posted by ArtificialGlory
Socialism is often the cause of the ills it attempts to fix. And when it's not, it doesn't necessarily make things any better.



BTW

-XgdtHewGR0

http://thepeoplescube.com/images/Marx_Sanders_2016.jpg

Originally posted by Stigma
http://thepeoplescube.com/images/Marx_Sanders_2016.jpg




Without socialism 10...nay 11...11 times as many people that died on 9/11 might die from...things!

BUT IT'S DIFFERENT THAN SOCIALISM....IT'S DEMOCRATIC SOCIALISM; SURELY PUTTING AN APPEASING ADJECTIVE BEFORE IT HELPS!!!

Originally posted by Stigma
http://thepeoplescube.com/images/Marx_Sanders_2016.jpg






"Its failed everywhere else, but it will work here."

Originally posted by Surtur
http://i.imgur.com/xpGLn4Y.jpg

I forgot to post the followup to this lol:

http://i.imgur.com/EvZnDzG.jpg

https://www.louderwithcrowder.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/BernieSandersSocialist.jpg