Darth Maul vs Darth Malgus

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Rebel95
So it seems the popular opinion is that Maul would win a sabers only fight *see my other thread*, but who would win an all out fight between these two?

*http://www.killermovies.com/forums/f86/t646615.html

Azronger
Maul, decisively

godemperortrump
Hmm.

Rebel95
Originally posted by Azronger
Maul, decisively
How so?

Kurk
Malgus appears to have a better incorporation of the force within combat scenarios whereas Maul refrains from doing so.

Azronger
Originally posted by Rebel95
How so?

ILS has made a very solid case here (it's originally Arcann vs Maul but shifts into Malgus vs Maul):

https://comicvine.gamespot.com/forums/battles-7/arcann-vs-darth-maul-1759741/?page=2

ILS
Originally posted by Kurk
Malgus appears to have a better incorporation of the force within combat scenarios whereas Maul refrains from doing so. Not really, Maul uses it just as much as Malgus. He casually choked out Obi-Wan Kenobi and incapacitated him, a feat I haven't seen Malgus match in magnitude, for the record.

Kurk
Originally posted by ILS
Not really, Maul uses it just as much as Malgus. He casually choked out Obi-Wan Kenobi and incapacitated him, a feat I haven't seen Malgus match in magnitude, for the record. I meant to say within combat sequences. Maul typically avoids landing force pushes in mid-combat.

ILS
Originally posted by Kurk
I meant to say within combat sequences. Maul typically avoids landing force pushes in mid-combat. Based on what? I can think of plenty of times he's done so, legends or canon. Is there any proof, any quote, saying he "avoids" using TK?

Rockydonovang
Assuming SOD Maul.

Maul's is portrayed as more powerful than TCW Kenobi who less than a year post AOTC could simultaneously deadlift and cloak freighters and who 5 years post TPM could do the heavy lifting pulling an airship across the sky.

And that's not even considering growth during season 6 and then SOD.

I doubt Malgus is powerful enough to dismiss Maul with telekenesis and Maul's durability should negate whatever damage Malgus manages to do with pushes or the like.

That leaves us with a duel where Maul's status as a tier 8, one of thebest swords men in history, and his feats which include handling one of the best duelists in history and one of the best jedi of the era simultaneously while pre-prime all mark Maul as the more impressive combatant.

S_W_LeGenD
Originally posted by Rockydonovang
Maul's is portrayed as more powerful than TCW Kenobi who less than a year post AOTC could simultaneously deadlift and cloak freighters and who 5 years post TPM could do the heavy lifting pulling an airship across the sky.
You need to provide evidence of these showings. And what was the mass of these freighters?

Originally posted by Rockydonovang
I doubt Malgus is powerful enough to dismiss Maul with telekenesis
FYI:

Malgus bounced up from the somersault and loosed a telekinetic blast that lifted Aryn from her feet and blew her across the hangar.

Taken from Star Wars: The Old Republic: Deceived

- Aryn Leener who sent much of a Tram crashing into her enemies like missiles. Do you understand what a Tram is?

Here is an example:

rE3MMHsGuzA

And this is a single car.

Now visualize 6 cars like that.

More importantly, Darth Malgus continued to grow in power since.

Originally posted by Rockydonovang
and Maul's durability should negate whatever damage Malgus manages to do with pushes or the like.
Not a convincing argument.

Originally posted by Rockydonovang
That leaves us with a duel where Maul's status as a tier 8, one of thebest swords men in history, and his feats which include handling one of the best duelists in history and one of the best jedi of the era simultaneously while pre-prime all mark Maul as the more impressive combatant.
So?

Darth Malgus could be a TIER 9 swordsman. He overwhelmed an extraordinarily skilled Jedi battlemaster centuries before his prime. Even Palpatine regarded him as a warrior without equal.

Azronger
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Darth Malgus could be a TIER 9 swordsman. He killed an immensely skilled Jedi battlemaster centuries before his prime. Palpatine regarded him as a warrior without equal.

He never said that. He did say though that Darths Maul and Vader are the most skilled Sith duelists ever, explicitly contradicting Malgus' accolade (which, btw, doesn't exist).

Rockydonovang
So Malgus in on par with Anoon Bondara?

Impressive thumb up

S_W_LeGenD
Originally posted by Azronger
He never said that. He did say though that Darths Maul and Vader are the most skilled Sith duelists ever, explicitly contradicting Malgus' accolade (which, btw, doesn't exist).
It depends when Palpatine learned about Darth Malgus.

And;

Malgus submitted utterly to the dark side, and doing so made him an exemplary warrior. His battlefield feats have never been duplicated.

Taken from Book of Sith: Secrets from the Dark Side

S_W_LeGenD
Originally posted by Rockydonovang
So Malgus in on par with Anoon Bondara?

Impressive thumb up
Darth Malgus defeated a stronger opponent centuries before his prime.

S_W_LeGenD
I skimmed through this thread: https://comicvine.gamespot.com/forums/battles-7/arcann-vs-darth-maul-1759741/?page=4

Noticed plenty of erroneous assumptions on the part of members who are defending Darth Maul in that contest. One of them doesn't even know what an in-universe source constitutes for a work of fiction. roll eyes (sarcastic)

Zenwolf
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
His battlefield feats have never been duplicated.

Taken from Book of Sith: Secrets from the Dark Side

Which are...what exactly? This is kinda vague as hell.

Azronger
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
It depends when Palpatine learned about Darth Malgus.

And;

Malgus submitted utterly to the dark side, and doing so made him an exemplary warrior. His battlefield feats have never been duplicated.

Taken from Book of Sith: Secrets from the Dark Side

He complied the Book of the Sith around 19BBY, the same year he said this to Vader: "Your skills are unmatched by any Sith before you. Now, Lord Vader, go and bring peace to the Empire."

Still waiting on that accolade saying Malgus is a warrior without equal though.

S_W_LeGenD
Originally posted by Azronger
He complied the Book of the Sith around 19BBY, the same year he said this to Vader: "Your skills are unmatched by any Sith before you. Now, Lord Vader, go and bring peace to the Empire."

Still waiting on that accolade saying Malgus is a warrior without equal though.
Palpatine might have said that to encourage Darth Vader.

Posted it already.

If Darth Malgus is an exemplary warrior and his battlefield feats have never been duplicated, he is a warrior without equal.

S_W_LeGenD
Originally posted by Zenwolf
Which are...what exactly? This is kinda vague as hell.
To name a few:

1. Killing a powerful Jedi Master centuries before his prime
2. Enduring the events of Hope and proceeding to kill 2 Jedi in another fight just a while later (one of them powerful enough to collapse a building)
3. Destroying a fleet of Republic starfighters with just a scream
4. Raiding and destroying Republic strongholds singlehandedly
5. Slaughtering scores of Jedi inside the Jedi Temple

Palpatine might be aware of undocumented events as well. He learned Force Maelstrom power from Darth Malgus's stuff.

Rockydonovang
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
To name a few:

1. Killing fodder
2. Killing more fodder
3. Destroying a fleet of Republic starfighters with just a scream
4. Killing fodder again
5. Killing lots of fodder


Wanna post no.3?

S_W_LeGenD
^^^

Ridiculous response.

1. Kao Cen Darach is fodder?

2. A Jedi Master who is strong enough to collapse a building is fodder? This is Darth Vader TIER showing. Never-mind the injuries of Darth Malgus prior to this confrontation.

3. Here:

The strength of my scream buckled the bridge's transparisteel viewport and left the crew's ears bleeding. More gratifyingly, my rage overloaded the fuel slugs of an incoming wave of Aureks. The bright bursts of their deaths raised a smile.

Taken from Book of Sith: Secrets from the Dark Side

4. Do you understand the concept of a Republic stronghold?

5. You need to assess this fight holistically. Cutting a swath through scores of Jedi and Troopers inside the Jedi Temple (a setting tremendously strong in the Light Side) is by no means an easy task.

ChocolateMuesli
Originally posted by Rockydonovang
Wanna post no.3?
Don't worry, Legend forgot to mention that Malgus' scream overloaded the jets' motors (or something similar) which caused them to explode. He didn't actually destroy whole starfighters with his scream.

Nvm he posted it.

Rockydonovang
Originally posted by ChocolateMuesli
Don't worry, Legend forgot to mention that Malgus' scream overloaded the jets' motors (or something similar) which caused them to explode. He didn't actually destroy whole starfighters with his scream.

Nvm he posted it.
Thanks for the clarification.

So Legend, you want to make a case for Malgus that doesn't revolve around fodder?

I can tell you right now there are better ways to argue for Malgus here.

Rebel95
I'm still undecided on who would win between these two, but here's something: As of Return, so even before his prime, Malgus was "the most dangerous embodiment of the dark side" that Satele Shan had ever experienced

Rockydonovang
Originally posted by Rebel95
Here's something: As of Return, so even before his prime, Malgus was "the most dangerous embodiment of the dark side" that Satele Shan had ever experienced
And who has Satele experienced prior to Malgus that makes this worth noting?

Rebel95
I don't know, I just thought it was worth sharing

Rockydonovang
Originally posted by Rebel95
I don't know, I just thought it was worth sharing
Aight, fair enough

XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Pretty sure Satele had experienced Baras, kek.

Rebel95
Actually upon reading up on some of Malgus' feats, Maul really doesn't compare. Here's just a couple:

-Force choking a jedi to death before defeating Ven Zallow
-Killing two padawans and a jedi knight with a single blast of force lighting.

Both these feats are before his prime and meanwhile Maul constantly struggles against Jedi all the time.

Rebel95
Originally posted by Rebel95
Actually upon reading up on some of Malgus' feats, Maul really doesn't compare. Here's just a couple:

-Force choking a jedi to death before defeating Ven Zallow
-Killing two padawans and a jedi knight with a single blast of force lighting.

Both these feats are before his prime and meanwhile Maul constantly struggles against Jedi all the time.
Those aren't even some of his best feats but they show how he has no trouble killing Jedi whereas Maul, like I said, struggles with Jedi all the time.

Rockydonovang
Originally posted by Rebel95
Actually upon reading up on some of Malgus' feats, Maul really doesn't compare. Here's just a couple:

-Force choking a jedi to death before defeating Ven Zallow
-Killing two padawans and a jedi knight with a single blast of force lighting.

Both these feats are before his prime and meanwhile Maul constantly struggles against Jedi all the time.
The problem here is the jedi Maul struggled with(Kenobi) is vastly more impressive than either of the dudes you mentioned.

Quality over quantity bro.

Rockydonovang
Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Pretty sure Satele had experienced Baras, kek.
And what has Baras done as of when Satele faced him that marks him as notable compared to Maul?

Ursumeles
Originally posted by Rebel95


-Force choking a jedi to death before defeating Ven Zallow
-Killing two padawans and a jedi knight with a single blast of force lighting.

Both these feats are before his prime and meanwhile Maul constantly struggles against Jedi all the time. Retarded logic.
The Jedi Maul faced are >>> these featless idiots.

Rebel95
Originally posted by Ursumeles
Retarded logic.
The Jedi Maul faced are >>> these featless idiots.
Thanks man.
According to Rocky, rebels is Maul's prime yet he got humiliated by Kanan. Or do you believe Kanan is superior to Ven Zallow?

Azronger
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Palpatine might have said that to encourage Darth Vader.

Posted it already.

If Darth Malgus is an exemplary warrior and his battlefield feats have never been duplicated, he is a warrior without equal.

Having unduplicated battlefield feats doesn't mean you are a warrior without equal. It means you have unduplicated battlefield feats.

Azronger
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
A Jedi Master who is strong enough to collapse a building is fodder? This is Darth Vader TIER showing. Never-mind the injuries of Darth Malgus prior to this confrontation.

Just how ignorant are you of the movie era?

https://i.stack.imgur.com/Q3sNu.jpg

^ And that guy was fodder to Vader

Rockydonovang
Originally posted by Rebel95
Thanks man.
According to Rocky, rebels is Maul's prime yet he got humiliated by Kanan. Or do you believe Kanan is superior to Ven Zallow?
roll eyes (sarcastic)
Reverse scaling isn't a thing.

Rebel95
That doesn't answer my question

Rockydonovang
Originally posted by Azronger
Having unduplicated battlefield feats doesn't mean you are a warrior without equal. It means you have unduplicated battlefield feats.
huh Who would have known?

Rockydonovang
Originally posted by Rebel95
That doesn't answer my question
If Kanan was legitimately superior to Maul, then yes, he would roflstomp Zallow.

lazybones
Originally posted by Azronger
Maul, decisively
Probably, yeah.

Originally posted by Rebel95
Actually upon reading up on some of Malgus' feats, Maul really doesn't compare. Here's just a couple:

-Force choking a jedi to death before defeating Ven Zallow
-Killing two padawans and a jedi knight with a single blast of force lighting.

Both these feats are before his prime and meanwhile Maul constantly struggles against Jedi all the time.
Originally posted by Rockydonovang
The problem here is the jedi Maul struggled with(Kenobi) is astronomically more impressive than either of the worthless fodder pondscum you mentioned, to the point where it is insulting for Kenobi to be even mentioned in the same thread as them.
Fixed. wink


thumb up , though.

Originally posted by Rebel95
Thanks man.
According to Rocky, rebels is Maul's prime yet he got humiliated by Kanan. Or do you believe Kanan is superior to Ven Zallow? Taking one of the lowest possible showings you can find for Maul and contrasting it with one of the highest showings of Malgus.

That sounds totally fair, yeah.

Rockydonovang
Your use of the term "pondscum" commands mad respect.

lazybones
Originally posted by Rockydonovang
Your use of the term "pondscum" deserves mad respect. um, ty i guess.

it's a label worthy of those vastly sub-Kenobi fodder smile .

Ursumeles
Originally posted by Rebel95
Thanks man.
According to Rocky, rebels is Maul's prime yet he got humiliated by Kanan. Or do you believe Kanan is superior to Ven Zallow? wtf
I think you're not understanding what I'm saying. And idc what rocky thinks.
I never said Kanan > Ven, but that choking a random Jedi isn't better than Maul's feats; and that "maul struggles witt jedi!!!'" doesn't makes him worse than

Rebel95
Originally posted by Ursumeles
wtf
I think you're not understanding what I'm saying. And idc what rocky thinks.
I never said Kanan > Ven, but that choking a random Jedi isn't better than Maul's feats; and that "maul struggles witt jedi!!!'" doesn't makes him worse than
No I understand what you're saying and you bring up a good point, but still Maul has never shown that kind of force superiority against any of his opponents like Malgus has

Rebel95
Originally posted by Rockydonovang
If Kanan was legitimately superior to Maul, then yes, he would roflstomp Zallow.
But the fact that Maul let a less skilled opponent do that to him doesn't bode well for him against an opponent like Malgus...

Rockydonovang
Originally posted by Rebel95 ]No I understand what you're saying and you bring up a good point, but still Maul has never shown that kind of force superiority against any of his opponents like Malgus has
He doesn't need to, because

S_W_LeGenD

S_W_LeGenD
Originally posted by Azronger
Having unduplicated battlefield feats doesn't mean you are a warrior without equal. It means you have unduplicated battlefield feats.
Subjective.

Originally posted by Azronger
Just how ignorant are you of the movie era?

https://i.stack.imgur.com/Q3sNu.jpg

^ And that guy was fodder to Vader
Really? Galen Marek did not brought it down on his own; that starship was about to crash on the surface but Galen Marek altered its trajectory.

And Galen Marek defeated Darth Vader in single combat. He also coped with Palpatine's Force lightning until he decided to save his allies from certain death. Did you read the novel?

Conversely, Hero of Tython defeated Lord Fulminiss in single combat - the guy who was famous for devastating an entire city with his powers and other deeds. And there wasn't any guarantee that Hero of Tython could tackle Darth Malgus on his own, still.

Azronger
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Subjective.


Really? Galen Marek did not brought it down on his own; that starship was about to crash on the surface but Galen Marek altered its trajectory.

And Galen Marek defeated Darth Vader in single combat. He also coped with Palpatine's Force lightning until he decided to save his allies from certain death. Did you read the novel?

Conversely, Hero of Tython defeated Lord Fulminiss in single combat - the guy who was famous for devastating an entire city with his powers and other deeds. And there wasn't any guarantee that Hero of Tython could tackle Darth Malgus on his own, still.

I know it was already falling, but do you know how much energy it would be required to even alter it's trajectory like that? Millions of times more than it would take to collapse a ****ing building. Galen also literally wrenched it down at the very end.

I wasn't referring to TFU I, but TFU II, where Vader is literally toying with and is able to dominate Galen's clone who is even more powerful than the original. This was before Vader grew immensely in power.

Placing Vader at building level is uttely dishonest and would require insane levels of lowballing. The fact that you have a random Jedi scrub from the TOR era on his tier is very telling.

Fulminiss disintegrating a city is pure legend. It's never confirmed if it actually happened. Why are you taking that as legit but writing off Galen's feat on the basis off "he didn't actually bring it down" when no one claimed he did, but it still being an absolutely monsterous feat, and the pretending Vader is building-level?

Darth Thor
Originally posted by Rebel95
Those aren't even some of his best feats but they show how he has no trouble killing Jedi whereas Maul, like I said, struggles with Jedi all the time.


The Inquisitors were all prior Jedi.

Also in the opening of "Revival" you see Maul and Opress killing Jedi pretty easily.

Ursumeles
^ And he was stomping Aayla.
Though it seems like Rebel was reffering to the Force.

Darth Thor
^ In that case I still don't remember where Maul struggled to Tk a Jedi.

And he choked 7th Sister pretty easily.

godemperortrump
Still undecided. Maul takes sabers but not sure how big Malgus' force edge is...

ILS
Given Obi-Wan Kenobi's numerous impressive Force feats, and given that Maul casually incapacitated him with a Force choke, why are so many of you so readily handing Malgus the Force edge? I've seen people citing Kao Cen Darach, unnamed fodder Jedi and fuel-cells being destroyed as reasons for why Malgus is more powerful than Maul, which displays a clear lack of knowledge or analysis of Maul's own feats, which are plentiful. I have to say, while Malgus is impressive, many of his feats are woeful compared to Maul's, so I've never understood why it's so commonly accepted, blindly so, that Malgus is more powerful, other than just assuming that the people suggesting as much are stupid.

Could someone who isn't stupid explain why they support Malgus? I'm only asking for one person.

cs_zoltan
Malgus was in TOR, that automatically makes him more powerful than anyone who he's in one thread with. That's how it works.

ILS
That seems like the extent of the logic given, yes.

Rebel95
Originally posted by ILS
which displays a clear lack of knowledge or analysis of Maul's own feats, which are plentiful. I have to say, while Malgus is impressive, many of his feats are woeful compared to Maul's
What are Maul's best feats? The best ones I can think of off the top of my head are killing Qui Gon, briefly holding his own against Sidious, and killing the seventh sister. Any others?

ILS
Originally posted by Rebel95
What are Maul's best feats? The best ones I can think of off the top of my head are killing Qui Gon, briefly holding his own against Sidious, and killing the seventh sister. Any others? Do you want to know about dueling, Force power?

Zenwolf
Originally posted by Rebel95
What are Maul's best feats? The best ones I can think of off the top of my head are killing Qui Gon, briefly holding his own against Sidious, and killing the seventh sister. Any others?

Killing the 7th Sis is one of his best feats?....

For the record I'm assuming we're using Legends here, so bringing up Rebels a Canon source is rather moot(it's rather moot to bring up really for anything unless it's strictly Canon chars) given Legends Maul has a lot more to draw from and is more fleshed out.

In this regard, I'd say Maul can take this with his repertoire of stats and abilities.

Rebel95
Yeah, telekinetically dominating and killing her was one of his best feats in my opinion. But fair enough

Darth Thor
Choking out Kenobi in Sith Hunters was Way more impressive in terms of TK feats.

Also Stomping Opress is one of his best feats given how much it puts him ahead of that level, and through power scaling everyone Opress has beaten. Also who was that martial artist Jedi again that Maul beat in Sith Hunters.

cs_zoltan
Originally posted by Darth Thor
Also who was that martial artist Jedi again that Maul beat in Sith Hunters.

How is that impressive? He was owning Maul in hand to hand until Maul oneshotted him with his chicken legs, something he doesn't have anymore.

Darth Thor
Originally posted by cs_zoltan
How is that impressive? He was owning Maul in hand to hand until Maul oneshotted him with his chicken legs, something he doesn't have anymore.


Great logic thumb up

cs_zoltan
Originally posted by Darth Thor
Great logic thumb up

Even better argument thumb up

UCanShootMyNova
My ass itches. thumb up

Kurk
Originally posted by ILS
Based on what? I can think of plenty of times he's done so, legends or canon. Is there any proof, any quote, saying he "avoids" using TK? I can't think of anything saying the he refrained from using it as a fully-trained sith per se, but we can infer this due to his training under Sidious where a huge emphasis on physical prowess was taught over dependency on the force in-combat.

For example, Maul was forced by Sidious to not utilize his force abilities during his entire time at the academy or Orsis (4-8 years). It was during this period when Maul acquired a good portion of the combat skills that he would continue to incorporate for the rest of his life. So if he was trained to specialize in physical combat over force-attacks of course he's going to rely on the former more as it's what he's best at. Malgus didn't train under anything close to this system. He's an outright brawler who uses everything and anything available to him in a fight. Specialization vs being well-rounded.

Also, when has Maul ever incorporated a force-move-set into his lightsaber sequences? I can't find anything in TCW or TPM.

carthage
Maul loses to Kenobi in three moves, loses to TPM Obi Wan, gets taken out by Ahsoka, struggles with dogs, loses to Kanan, can't beat TCW Kenobi with Savages help, but yeah his t3h skills are impressive lmao

Malgus stomps

Darth Thor

Darth Thor

Rebel95
up

Deronn_solo
Malgus is the better Force user - Maul is the superior duelist; honestly, I see the former's advantage is more profound than the latter, so I'll slide my vote to Malgus.

AncientPower
Apprentice Malgus being more powerful than Great War era Baras, who is on par with his sister Darth Ekkage as of the time, Ekkage who is among the greatest Sith Assassins ever and was more powerful than Master Wyellett, probably doesn't bode well for Maul.

Rebel95
Originally posted by Deronn_solo
Malgus is the better Force user - Maul is the superior duelist; honestly, I see the former's advantage is more profound than the latter, so I'll slide my vote to Malgus.
thumb up

AncientPower
Apparently FE Malgus fought all 8 protagonists, as the Encyclopedia states he fought both Republic and Imperial strike teams.

In that case, he creams Maul.

DarthAnt66
Can you quote me?

AncientPower
Sorry, I don't know why I thought Encyclopedia.

YousufKhan1212
Maul wins. He'd dismantle Malgus fairly decisively in a swordfight, and I'd give him the Force edge too, although I've not decided to what degree. A Force only battle would be interesting because Malgus seems to have a more violent use of TK than Maul.

Rebel95
Originally posted by YousufKhan1212
Maul wins. He'd dismantle Malgus fairly decisively in a swordfight, and I'd give him the Force edge too, although I've not decided to what degree.
Based on what?

DarthAnt66
Originally posted by AncientPower
Sorry, I don't know why I thought Encyclopedia.
Ah, yeah, I remember that. I saw it proposed, though, that while both parties did assault the Fortress, only one strike team actually followed the path presented in the False Emperor flashpoint, therefore meaning only four protagonists actually fought Malgus. The other group was perhaps involved in a related but different mission either on or around the Fortress (isn't there even a battle of Ilum space battle from Galactic Starfighter?). In that respect, consistency with the flashpoint missions is maintained. Obviously, otherwise, we're dealing with an operation, which just isn't the case here. This also operates under our mutual assumption that it is the protagonists actually completing these flashpoints and operations, also.

S_W_LeGenD
Originally posted by Azronger
I know it was already falling, but do you know how much energy it would be required to even alter it's trajectory like that? Millions of times more than it would take to collapse a ****ing building. Galen also literally wrenched it down at the very end.
This is a wild speculation on your part and I disagree with it. First, this was an event of extreme focus:

With his legs braced firmly in the trash, he reached as deep as he had ever reached into the Force, and then went farther still, feeling as though a mighty chasm had opened up under him and his mind and will plunged down into it. The chasm filled. His mind opened. The physical existence of the Star Destroyer slid painlessly inside.

Taken from Star Wars: The Force Unleashed

I see an element of oneness in this showing:

There is no wherever, he told himself. There is only where I tell it to.

Focus.

The tip of his right index finger and the Star Destroyer became as one in his mind. Every nut and bolt and plate and wire of the massive machine was contained within that tiny space. It wasn't hard to move an arm, a finger, a single human cell. He could direct one barely without thinking, so why not the other, too? Instinct was clearer on that point than the workings of his mind. Ignoring perspective, the two were about the same size in his field of vision.

Taken from Star Wars: The Force Unleashed

It was like as if Marek had become one with the Star Destroyer, forging a powerful bond with the object in order to influence its course.

And when the deed ended, it left Marek completely drained:

Abandoning his control over the ship, knowing there was nothing now that he could do to alter its course, the apprentice staggered backward, dazed. The Force fled from him, leaving him wrung out and drained. With a sound like the world ending, the Star Destroyer completed its first and final journey. It hit the cannon, exactly as it was supposed to, and the sky turned white. The ground buckled beneath the apprentice's feet. He pinwheeled, unable to find his balance, as a tsunami of junk and waste rose up ahead of him and blotted out the sun.

Taken from Star Wars: The Force Unleashed

- not a combat-applicable showing in the slightest. You cannot expect Marek to bring that much power into bear in a fight because he wouldn't have time for it and would be exposing himself to assault .

Second, Marek's objective was to alter the trajectory of the falling Star Destroyer. Not once, he had to lift millions of tons of mass. Even if we assume that this deed was more tedious than that of collapsing two buildings whose debris entrapped Darth Malgus, it cannot be millions of times more tedious because in both instances did the heavy-lifting. In-fact, buildings in Star Wars significantly vary in size and durability and many literally dwarf that Star Destroyer in size. It is unwise to issue a blanket statement that Marek's showing is millions of times more tedious than collapsing a building; seriously do not.

Originally posted by Azronger
I wasn't referring to TFU I, but TFU II, where Vader is literally toying with and is able to dominate Galen's clone who is even more powerful than the original. This was before Vader grew immensely in power.
I would like to see evidence of these claims.

Even if Darth Vader was becoming stronger over time, Marek's showing should not be used to scale him or assess his day-to-day abilities. Marek's showing is a one-off kind of thing; not something that he could replicate on a daily basis in any situation.

Originally posted by Azronger
Placing Vader at building level is uttely dishonest and would require insane levels of lowballing. The fact that you have a random Jedi scrub from the TOR era on his tier is very telling.
Really now?

When Darth Vader collapsed a building (i.e. Cathedral), he had to exert quiet a bit and lived to tell the tale due to the will of the Force.

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11111/111118734/3256948-8953222315-21391.jpg

Collapsing a building is a high-end showing even for the likes of Darth Vader. In-fact, some buildings are too large to collapse in one go.

A random Jedi scrub? Just because that Jedi Master is lacking in backstory, doesn't implies that he was a scrub. You do not see a random Jedi scrub putting up a fight against Darth Malgus or collapsing buildings in a fight. That Jedi Master was clearly a force to be reckoned with. The fact that Darth Malgus tackled such a foe in spite of being mortally wounded , should tell you something about his power on the other hand.

When has Darth Maul collapsed a (proper) building in a fight or otherwise? Not once even in his prime. The best we have seen from him is pulling a Shuttle from the edge of a cliff which is slightly better than the showing of Savage Opress. To Darth Malgus, a Force-user of this much strength is a minor issue.

Originally posted by Azronger
Fulminiss disintegrating a city is pure legend. It's never confirmed if it actually happened. Why are you taking that as legit but writing off Galen's feat on the basis off "he didn't actually bring it down" when no one claimed he did, but it still being an absolutely monsterous feat, and the pretending Vader is building-level?
FYI:

A legend is a very old and popular story that may be true. (Collins English Dictionary)

It is a piece of information that establish the power of Lord Fulminiss. This guy is openly credited for his expertise in the arts of 'mass extermination' and acknowledged as one of the most powerful Sith Sorcerers (ever). Even if his legend is half-true, it still suggests a showing that is massively ahead of anything we have seen from Darth Vader (destruction-wise). Nonetheless, Lord Fulminiss pulled it off in a fit of rage.

Marek's showing is a one-off and Darth Vader is building-level. I stick by my position.

Ursumeles
Malgus is great because he beat a Jedi that put up a fight against him?

YousufKhan1212
The **** is LeGenD on about that mong.

Zenwolf
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD



Really now?

When Darth Vader collapsed a building (i.e. Cathedral), he had to exert quiet a bit and lived to tell the tale due to the will of the Force.

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11111/111118734/3256948-8953222315-21391.jpg

Collapsing a building is a high-end showing even for the likes of Darth Vader. In-fact, some buildings are too large to collapse in one go.



Eh, Vader wasn't really in peak condition there. Plus given he's underneath the Cathedral in a labyrinth type of place, which suggest the building is pretty huge, so bringing it down is pretty great.

Then again building level is pretty vague, seeing as they all range from various sizes.

S_W_LeGenD
Originally posted by Ursumeles
Malgus is great because he beat a Jedi that put up a fight against him?
You have completely missed my point.

The Jedi Master in question cannot be hand-waved as a 'random Jedi scrub' because his feats and performance against Darth Malgus imply otherwise. Darth Malgus casually dismissed majority of the Jedi he came across. Only Satele Shan, Ven Zallow and Aryn Leener managed to put up a fight. In-fact, only Aryn Leener managed to put up a good fight. The rest fell short in-spite of their abilities.

Both Satele Shan and Aryn Leener demonstrated vastly superior abilities in the Force than Darth Maul by the way. The Jedi Master in question as well.

Ursumeles
You completely missed my point lol. That the Master was able to hold his own against Malgus is a good feat for him, not for Malgus.

NewGuy01
laughing out loud

Zenwolf
Tbh after reading about that feat from that one nameless Jedi Master and then digging through in research for other feats, organizations and the like, making general RTs on em. My stance on The Force has radically changed overall. Probably the only one who views as such.

MythLord
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Both Satele Shan and Aryn Leener demonstrated vastly superior abilities in the Force than Darth Maul by the way. The Jedi Master in question as well.

My arse. Maul as a teenager was gonna collapse barracks capable of housing hundreds of beings; that's infinitely a better feat than collapsing two buildings that were already unstable from bombardment.

S_W_LeGenD

TheNuisanceBird
Assuming this is SOD Maul;



Physicality:

Strength: Maul should be able to match Malgus' strength blade to blade. Even if Malgus is stronger, it's not by much. I don't see physical strength being the main factor of deciding the fight. If Maul can stand up to Grievous, he can stand up to Malgus. Where Zallow's punch dislodged a tooth, Maul would be capable of much worse.

Speed: Maul easily. If Zallow can press forward and break Malgus' momentum, so too should SOD Maul who Sidious couldn't immediately speed blitz from what I remember.

Maul's speed is a pretty big factor here.

Durability: Malgus although the only way Maul's going down is if you pierce him through the heart or remove his head so not much of an issue.

Overall: Maul. He can match Malgus' strength, surpasses his speed, and has the durability to stay in the fight with Malgus.



Force:

Maul can cope with Malgus' telekinesis and vice versa. Maul's telekinesis may be a little stronger due to his feats in SOD although Malgus has Force lightning on his side. Maul may get a telekinetic grip on Malgus though.

I don't see the lightning being the winning card but it can break Maul's momentum and has a chance to frack with his cybernetic legs should Maul lose his grip on the Dark Saber, in which case he'd be dino charging at Malgus.

Overall: I'd say equal due to their showings. Maul may have better telekinesis with Malgus having Force lightning.


Sabers:

As previously mentioned, Maul can meet Malgus' strength with his own and utilize his speed advantage which would prevent Malgus' formula from being fully effective.

It'd take awhile, but I see Maul being able to eventually break through Malgus' defenses in sabers only.

Overall: Maul. He has the skill to contend with Malgus and has his physicality boosting his formula.



Verdict:


I feel like Maul would take an early advantage through his speed and his equal if not greater strength would be able to deal with any Djem So counter offensives that Malgus dishes out. While I would favor Maul as the better duelist, I feel they'd both start using their Force abilities where Maul would be able to deal with what ever Malgus decides to pick up and throw at him using the Force and eventually break through his defenses either by landing hits with the Dark Saber or getting a telekinetic grip on Malgus.

AncientPower
Apparently Maul's reacting faster than a Jedi with perceptions that could literally witness the hyperspace jump of a ship so that it appeared to stretch infinitely in the space of a nano second. A Jedi who got far more powerful than that in the same novel before Oneness!Malgus stomped her contemptuously in the ending.

He's also apparently pulling feats out of his ass that compare to launching a six-car train with a mere gesture whilst running in the opposite direction. Again, before Leneer got much more powerful and still getting stomped by a Malgus who wasn't even remotely bloodlusted.

Not to mention being more powerful than the likes of Marr, who was faster than Darth Lachriss could even perceive with Force augmented vision.

Or being clearly more powerful than Satele Shan, who could blitz through hex droids faster than Eldox Ax could hear, and crush hex droids telekinetically despite the fact they could tank lightsabers.

Malgus is being heavily underrated in your comparison.

TheNuisanceBird
Originally posted by AncientPower
Apparently Maul's reacting faster than a Jedi with perceptions that could literally witness the hyperspace jump of a ship so that it appeared to stretch infinitely in the space of a nano second. A Jedi who got far more powerful than that in the same novel before Oneness!Malgus stomped her contemptuously in the ending.

He's also apparently pulling feats out of his ass that compare to launching a six-car train with a mere gesture whilst running in the opposite direction. Again, before Leneer got much more powerful and still getting stomped by a Malgus who wasn't even remotely bloodlusted.

Not to mention being more powerful than the likes of Marr, who was faster than Darth Lachriss could even perceive with Force augmented vision.

Or being clearly more powerful than Satele Shan, who could blitz through hex droids faster than Eldox Ax could hear, and crush hex droids telekinetically despite the fact they could tank lightsabers.

Malgus is being heavily underrated in your comparison.

Fair enough.

MythLord
Originally posted by TheNuisanceBird
Assuming this is SOD Maul;



Physicality:

Strength: Maul should be able to match Malgus' strength blade to blade. Even if Malgus is stronger, it's not by much. I don't see physical strength being the main factor of deciding the fight. If Maul can stand up to Grievous, he can stand up to Malgus. Where Zallow's punch dislodged a tooth, Maul would be capable of much worse.

Speed: Maul easily. If Zallow can press forward and break Malgus' momentum, so too should SOD Maul who Sidious couldn't immediately speed blitz from what I remember.

Maul's speed is a pretty big factor here.

Durability: Malgus although the only way Maul's going down is if you pierce him through the heart or remove his head so not much of an issue.

Overall: Maul. He can match Malgus' strength, surpasses his speed, and has the durability to stay in the fight with Malgus.



Force:

Maul can cope with Malgus' telekinesis and vice versa. Maul's telekinesis may be a little stronger due to his feats in SOD although Malgus has Force lightning on his side. Maul may get a telekinetic grip on Malgus though.

I don't see the lightning being the winning card but it can break Maul's momentum and has a chance to frack with his cybernetic legs should Maul lose his grip on the Dark Saber, in which case he'd be dino charging at Malgus.

Overall: I'd say equal due to their showings. Maul may have better telekinesis with Malgus having Force lightning.


Sabers:

As previously mentioned, Maul can meet Malgus' strength with his own and utilize his speed advantage which would prevent Malgus' formula from being fully effective.

It'd take awhile, but I see Maul being able to eventually break through Malgus' defenses in sabers only.

Overall: Maul. He has the skill to contend with Malgus and has his physicality boosting his formula.



Verdict:


I feel like Maul would take an early advantage through his speed and his equal if not greater strength would be able to deal with any Djem So counter offensives that Malgus dishes out. While I would favor Maul as the better duelist, I feel they'd both start using their Force abilities where Maul would be able to deal with what ever Malgus decides to pick up and throw at him using the Force and eventually break through his defenses either by landing hits with the Dark Saber or getting a telekinetic grip on Malgus.

Y'know, I came originally from the VS series community myself, but this... muh bro... This is cringey. And it ain't how we debate.

TheNuisanceBird
Originally posted by MythLord
Y'know, I came originally from the VS series community myself, but this... muh bro... This is cringey. And it ain't how we debate.

Breaking things down into categories isn't exclusive to VS on YouTube.

But yeah, I sorta did undervalue Malgus.

MythLord
Originally posted by TheNuisanceBird
Breaking things down into categories isn't exclusive to VS on YouTube.

But yeah, I sorta did undervalue Malgus.

You used the stereotypical VS series format and arguments. And nah, you didn't undervalue Malgus; Maul can beat him. smile

godemperortrump
Sabers possibly goes Maul's way. He loses Force and all-out

TheNuisanceBird
Originally posted by MythLord
You used the stereotypical VS series format and arguments. And nah, you didn't undervalue Malgus; Maul can beat him. smile

True.

Really? Most of the undervaluing was the Force.

Now that I think of it, SOD Maul should be able to replicate Satele's feat with the cliff considering him pulling down a shuttle while injured and his numerous feats in SOD.

I wish we would've gotten to see SOD animated so we could see Maul's fight with Mace and Aayla better.

This would've changed a lot of things.

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