Exar Kun(AncientPower) vs. Darth Vader(Samappo)

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AncientPower
Rules:
- All-out.
- Neutral ground.
- No amplifications.
- Standard gear.

AncientPower
I'll do the opener, if you like?

Not_a_sock
AncientPower has dedicated himself solely to Kun apologetics.

I hope you know some stuff about Vader Samappo...

samappo
Originally posted by AncientPower
I'll do the opener, if you like?

You may.

AncientPower
Alright, give me 24 hours.

S_W_LeGenDofPT
What is this? Darth Vader have official promotion as invincible. Have a look:

Clad in flowing black robes, protective armor, and a grotesque, combined breath mask and helmet, the imposing figure of Darth Vader was feared throughout the Empire. Utterly ruthless, his Sith powers made him virtually invincible.

From (The Official Star Wars Fact File: #3)

How can Exar Kun defeat invincible fighter? He can't. Member AncientPower have lost his/her/its mind.

AncientPower
Simply put, I don't believe there's much room for any retaliation by Vader in a Force contest. Let's take a look at Exar Kun's most impressive Force feats:

On Yavin IV, Exar Kun lifts the Corsair out of the depths of the Temple of Fire without leaving permanent damage to the building:



This is an immense feat of telekinesis so early on in his career. Accompanied by a telepathic feat of his undertaken shortly after:



The population of Cinnagar, the planet in question, is 310,000,000,000 according to Force and Destiny: Nexus of Power and is one of the busiest thoroughfares in all the galaxy. Feel free to make your own estimate.

Both of these feats are prior to massive growths in power for Kun:



Just for emphasis:


Exar Kun attained the Dark Holocron, making him even more powerful:



A feat that takes place far further along in his career, is actually him tanking an attack with his lesser Force barrier when taken off-guard:

https://i.imgur.com/60o6BBS.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/uLa597L.webp

So Odan-Urr channels the power of Ossus into an attack on Exar Kun. With this same power source, he shields himself from ten supernova waves and survives:

https://i.imgur.com/zofrYgN.webp

This is stated to be more devastating than anything the galaxy has ever seen:

https://i.imgur.com/rwwWUYD.webp

Yet Exar Kun. . . is barely damaged.

https://i.imgur.com/eeloFOb.jpg

By the time he's in his prime before the entire Jedi order attacked Yavin IV, he's confirmed to be 'far more powerful' than any one other Jedi of his time:



This therefore includes the legendary Master Thon, who was powerful enough to cleanse the most powerful concentration of dark side energy ever attempted:

https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11115/111155790/4700003-5697017890-tEJc7.png

This would include more dark side energy than was used by Naga Sadow and his Sith Meditation Sphere to cause a supernova and also arguably the Nathema Ritual conducted by Vitiate and his 8,000 Sith Lords.

I thought I'd bring out the bigger feats first and ignore scaling, that makes for a better debate and not a war of interpretation.

Your turn. thumb up

Not_a_sock
No point responding Appo since Vader's best feat is getting force pushed by Kanan and Ezra.

samappo
Is this Legends and Canon?

AncientPower
I'd prefer Legends only, because honestly the two Vader incarnations conflict pretty damn hard; especially 19BBY to ANH. But if you insist, I'll give you that.

samappo
That's fine, I shall go legends.

samappo
Does that mean I can't include the movies/novels?

AncientPower
Novels of movies are fine.

samappo
Okay, give me time to reply.

The Ellimist
samappo, remember:

- scaling from The Force Unleashed feats
- Vader doesn't reach his suited prime until RotJ
- don't take ambiguious Exar Kun feats for granted

Azronger
Also you can scale Vader beyond Knightfall Anakin, RotS Sidious and Yoda for the lulz, and then watch in amusement as AP makes a mockery of him/her/itself trying to argue Kun could beat any of those guys.

AncientPower
1.Stop interrupting our debate, I have no interest in Samappo regurgitating your arguments.

2.Vader can't be scaled from them at all.

samappo

samappo

AncientPower
Oh I didn't even notice that you'd replied. Sorry about that.

FIFAPL4YER
''AncientPower'' getting shit on as usual lol.

AncientPower
Anybody who spells 'player' with a number loses their right to an opinion. Go fvck your sock, cvnt.

FIFAPL4YER
Originally posted by AncientPower
Anybody who spells 'player' with a number loses their right to an opinion. Go fvck your sock, cvnt.
You're literally a 30+ year old scapegoat best known for faking quotes on internet boards about your favorite 1990's comic character to make him look better than he really is. No one here takes you seriously or care about you, so I'm honestly wondering why you're even doing this ''debate''?

AncientPower
1.3 year old insult that has long since dessicated? Check.
2.Appeal to ageism? Check.
3.Attempting to mock classic Star Wars? Check.
4.Poor grammar? Check.

Oh dear.

P.S. Cares*

Now go back to spending your foodstamp on FIFA coins, instead of getting a real job.

Pessimystic
^ Syndicate sock is a Syndicate sock

AncientPower
You assume he's relevant enough to warrant remembrance. Not that it's Syn.

Ursumeles
Originally posted by Pessimystic
^ Syndicate sock is a Syndicate sock What? FIFA isn't Syn lol

samappo
I'm actually quite worried that my response is pretty inadequate.

FIFAPL4YER
Originally posted by AncientPower
1.3 year old insult that has long since dessicated? Check.
2.Appeal to ageism? Check.
3.Attempting to mock classic Star Wars? Check.
4.Poor grammar? Check.

Oh dear.

P.S. Cares*

Now go back to spending your foodstamp on FIFA coins, instead of getting a real job.
Damn right I'm appealing to age. Your prevalence and behavior here is made much worse by your age because you would be expected to be much smarter than you actually are lol. Just like how I would be more concerned about a 40 year old not washing his own clothes than I would about a 16 year old not washing his own clothes. Similarly your fake-quote thing will never be forgotten as it's a part of your shitty personality lol. Let's not forget the gender fiasco either, mr. apache attack helicopter.

And I wasn't really mocking ''classic Star Wars''. I was mocking you for caring so much about other people's opinions on him that you forged quotes to make him look good lmao. And my grammar is top class bro, except the care/cares mistake I made which was due to mobile lmao. My spelling is literally better than most americans here. Nice try tho.

samappo
I'm 19.

FIFAPL4YER
Originally posted by samappo
I'm 19.
what lol

samappo
You don't believe me?

TenebrousWay
I'm yet to see a debate thread not getting derailed by bickering lmao

Geistalt
Except he didn't achieve Oneness until he confronted Darth Sidious.

AncientPower
I've been pre-occupied by the Sheev brigade but I'll get my reply out ASAP.

samappo
Originally posted by Geistalt
Except he didn't achieve Oneness until he confronted Darth Sidious.

Yeah, Vader was watching, and he survived the ensuing blast that killed Galen. The emperor and Vader were able to walk around casually afterwards.

samappo
Originally posted by AncientPower
I've been pre-occupied by the Sheev brigade but I'll get my reply out ASAP.

All good, take your time. I'm quite busy debating on another forum anyway.

Pessimystic
Maybe because Galen just isn't powerful...

quanchi112
Originally posted by samappo
All good, take your time. I'm quite busy debating on another forum anyway. Which forum ?

samappo
Historum - Ancient History.

Mostly engaged in debates involving ancient warfare, if you must know.

AncientPower
First of all, whilst that list is pretty impressive, it can't be used to measure their power. For example, Darth Bane is nowhere near as powerful as Darth Sidious is. It's merely stating that some of the most powerful Sith are human. Though if we do wish to look at accolades that pertain to the Sith Lords, these are fairly favorable to Exar Kun:



This would seem to indicate that out of all things strong with the dark side, Exar Kun and the Emperor were two of the strongest. But I wouldn't use this against Vader, simply because it isn't definitive.

Now it has been claimed by others that the feat in question, that of the Corsair, is a feat that is ambiguous in its nature. Abel G. Pena and Tom Veitch however, seem to disagree:



Even if you take prep or a nexus into context, Exar Kun grew vastly more powerful after said feat. Thus such a boon would be irrelevant with this incarnation.

In terms of the Starkiller feat, the issue here is that there is a clear difference in the mind of Starkiller himself. Thus I'm not at all convinced he'd bring such potency to his fight with Vader, nor that he can really summon strength such as this consistently in the fight:



Now the problem with your 80% of Sidious quote, is that in reality, he not only says his powers are curbed now, meaning growth would be negligible, and given the source, that'd be binding Word of God Lucas Canon. In that, it'd contradict everything that claims growth in your following quotes. But more importantly, we have no idea what that means into relation to other characters. For example, does that make Yoda 90%? It's not really usable, in all fairness.

As far as knowledge of the Force goes, Vader really can't stack up to the most powerful Sith holocron ever:





Which Kun canonically got more powerful because of:







That's besides the Great Library on Ossus; which gets ruined by supernovae immediately afterwards, where he raids the Chamber of Antiquities; the most precious artifacts in the entire Order at the time:



Exar Kun didn't tank supernova blasts. But he did tank an attack from Ood Bnar, who survived being on the surface of Ossus as it was bombarded and devastated by ten successive supernova waves. Yet despite using his full power, he couldn't injure Exar Kun.

As for Vader's durability feats, they are quite impressive. But it's honestly not really beyond the norm of Kun's; Nadd unleashed 'cataclysmic' energy and collapsed boulders on-top of Kun:

https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11111/111114474/4249225-broken+bones.png

https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11111/111114474/4249226-broken+bones2.png

Kun survives being broken in a hundred places and remains entirely capable of maintaining his mental faculties and speaking. Not beyond Vader's durability but it's a strong indication of what even Jedi Exar Kun is capable of surviving. Beyond that, we have seen the likes of Darth Traya, the Exile and her party recover from the most greivous wounds. Including even self-impalement upon a lightsaber. Yet they're effectively fodder in a contest with a great Dark Lord such as Exar Kun.

Now, I won't go into depth about Force lightning, because I'd prefer to stick to Kun's living feats. I will however say that suited Darth Vader has never been close to Darth Sidious, let alone surpassing his ROTS incarnation. Let's take George Lucas into account:



So no, Vader after Mustafar was never his Master's equal. He's arguably approaching Plagueis, but Sidious is an entirely higher league.

As for returning from death, one of Exar Kun's cronies became the master of such a constant state of willing himself back to life and living as a corpse through sheer rage. He went by the name of the Lord of pain and wasn't really very powerful at all given his peers.

Exar Kun on Yavin IV was already a great power, enough to replace Freedon Nadd's spirit. Yet Nadd had managed to empower Ommin to the point of causing mass rage in a city, maintaining dominance on Arca Jeth. Nadd was also responsible for corrupting Onderon to an unnaturally strong dark side nexus. One-shotting Vodo across the galaxy and more. Kun's power grows immediately after this, and then unlocks more power as he masters Alchemy, becoming an 'extremely powerful figure'. This is prior to leaving for Cinnagar, where he stalemates Ulic and then spends several years gaining 'tremendous' dark side power and obtaining the aforementioned Dark Holocron which only increased the rate by which he grew in power. Until he became far more powerful than any other Jedi; even Ulic, who had once been his match.

This scales him massively above his Jedi self, where he has the augmented feats of causing intense lightsaber clashes; which could be heard from kilometers away, breaking through a multi-feet deep wall of sheer Mandalorian Iron; material even used in some capital ship hulls.

This all neglects to mention his in-combat Sith sorcery techniques; and his Force blasts, to boot.

AncientPower
Samappo?

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