Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.

Who wins?

Frank. Thor is definitely tougher and stronger. But Frank is a f*cking honey badger. He doesn't care. He'll ignore the pain, tough it out, and get in some surprising hits. But mainly, he'll probably fight dirty to win, going for breaks, gouging his eyes, etc...

In a ring or octagon, I'd say Thor wins though not easily. Bigger, stronger, seems more skilled, way more experienced. But in the streets in a fight to the death... Frank is just so darn feral and scrappy that he might end up winning.

Frank kicks his ass

Depowered Thor gets his as kicked by Frank

I actually made this same thread way back, but that was just after DD s2. Opinions were divided then.

I will say the same that I said then. Their physical abilities are close enough that I think Frank wins via sheer grit and determination. The guy gets beaten to a pulp, breaks bones, gets shot, gets hit with pieces of exploding shrapnel, and more, but he just keeps on trucking.

He'd do stuff Thor's not expecting in a fight. Kick his kneecap out. Bite him. Elbow him in the nose. He's a very dirty fighter.

Not commenting on who would win as I'm not completely up to date on the Punisher, just pointing out that the Punisher is not the only one that can take pain and keep on trucking. Unless of course you think Thor's godhood protected him from the pain of things like being impaled and having his eye gouged out.

Originally posted by Silent Master
Not commenting on who would win as I'm not completely up to date on the Punisher, just pointing out that the Punisher is not the only one that can take pain and keep on trucking. Unless of course you think Thor's godhood protected him from the pain of things like being impaled and having his eye gouged out.

It certainly helps you tank damage when you're as tough as Thor is. His godhood protected him from massive impact forces like Hulk smacking him around and falling from thousands of feet and the Sokovia explosion.

But in a human body, his ability to fight through pain doesn't really matter. If Frank shatters his kneecap or breaks his arm, he can deal with the pain, but he can't use that limb anymore.

Again I wasn't commenting on who would or their ability to withstand damage. I was merely comparing their ability to fight through pain.

Well, I mean in regards to Punisher, in his own show, at one point, he rocks up to a fight with broken bones, a punctured lung etc., gets shot in the leg upon arrival, just wraps it up, and still performs better than most fully fit and healthy people would.

Seriously, the only human I have seen in the MCU with a more impressive pain threshold is Stick (though Daredevil deserves an honourable mention). That guy literally lopped his own hand off and carried on like nothing.

Originally posted by KingD19
It certainly helps you tank damage when you're as tough as Thor is. His godhood protected him from massive impact forces like Hulk smacking him around and falling from thousands of feet and the Sokovia explosion.

But in a human body, his ability to fight through pain doesn't really matter. If Frank shatters his kneecap or breaks his arm, he can deal with the pain, but he can't use that limb anymore.

To be fair, Thor is used to fighting beings that are as strong or stronger than him, and as durable if not more durable than him. So the pain that he feels and tanks would be no less than the pain Frank can dish out when Thor is made human.

For that matter, Thor's fighting skill and speed displayed when he's fighting at full power shouldn't be discounted just because he's made human, because his skill and speed shouldn't be much affected by removing his powers as long as he's fighting someone of similar physicality.

What I mean to say is, I don't think Frank can easily block laser fire with a hammer.

Originally posted by FrothByte
What I mean to say is, I don't think Frank can easily block laser fire with a hammer.

I doubt Frank can easily catch arrows without looking either, or flip over pointblank automatic fire, but that didn't stop him from competing with Daredevil. Granted, based on Matt's feats (and some behind the scenes interviews I saw recently, that confirmed Matt does indeed get a power creep during the second half of S2, in order to fight the Hand) Matt > Frank by the end of it.

Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
I doubt Frank can easily catch arrows without looking either, or flip over pointblank automatic fire, but that didn't stop him from competing with Daredevil. Granted, based on Matt's feats (and some behind the scenes interviews I saw recently, that confirmed Matt does indeed get a power creep during the second half of S2, in order to fight the Hand) Matt > Frank by the end of it.

I rewatched Punisher's first fight with Daredevil, and I came to the conclusion that he did well in that fight because he was stronger and tougher than DD. DD hit him multiple times with his baton and Punisher was still standing. Frank hit DD once with the baton and DD went down. DD landed a lot more hits but Frank seemed to hit harder, plus everytime they got into a grapple or hold Frank powered through Daredevil.

Unfortunately, I don't think that tactic will work against Thor. Thor is bigger, heavier and seems to hit harder than Punisher. I doubt that Frank can overpower, outfight or out-hit Thor.

His biggest chance is to outlast Thor by using his insane damage soak... or simply just get crazier. That will net him the win.

As to DD winning handily against Frank by the end of S2, I chuck that as Matt just being the more skilled fighter. In their first fight Frank's toughness and strength put Matt offbalance, but by their 2nd fight Matt already knows what to look out for and is able to adjust his fighting style to Frank... and that's usually a quality that skilled/smart fighters have, the ability to adjust their technique to beat an opponent.

Originally posted by FrothByte
I rewatched Punisher's first fight with Daredevil, and I came to the conclusion that he did well in that fight because he was stronger and tougher than DD. DD hit him multiple times with his baton and Punisher was still standing. Frank hit DD once with the baton and DD went down. DD landed a lot more hits but Frank seemed to hit harder, plus everytime they got into a grapple or hold Frank powered through Daredevil.

Unfortunately, I don't think that tactic will work against Thor. Thor is bigger, heavier and seems to hit harder than Punisher. I doubt that Frank can overpower, outfight or out-hit Thor.

His biggest chance is to outlast Thor by using his insane damage soak... or simply just get crazier. That will net him the win.

As to DD winning handily against Frank by the end of S2, I chuck that as Matt just being the more skilled fighter. In their first fight Frank's toughness and strength put Matt offbalance, but by their 2nd fight Matt already knows what to look out for and is able to adjust his fighting style to Frank... and that's usually a quality that skilled/smart fighters have, the ability to adjust their technique to beat an opponent.

I don't know about depowered Thor hitting harder. As you yourself mentioned, Frank was able to floor Daredevil with just a few hits. Even Fisk had trouble doing that. Frank hits like a truck, especially for a man his size (not that he is a small guy).

And in terms of feats putting Matt over Frank, I was more referring to Daredevil's notable improvement against the Hand etc. During his first encounters with them, he had a serious amount of trouble. By the end of the season, he was one- and two-shotting a lot of them. In comparison, Elektra's performances against them, for example, remained fairly consistent. Which fits with what was said in that clip I mentioned, where they said something along the lines of that Matt had to become stronger, better and faster than he had ever been before to fight them.

The problem is depowered Thor doesn't really have many feats, all we know is he mowed down multiple Shield agents fairly quickly and had a little bit of trouble with the last guy. Who was probably meant to the elite agent level.

Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
I don't know about depowered Thor hitting harder. As you yourself mentioned, Frank was able to floor Daredevil with just a few hits. Even Fisk had trouble doing that. Frank hits like a truck, especially for a man his size (not that he is a small guy).

And in terms of feats putting Matt over Frank, I was more referring to Daredevil's notable improvement against the Hand etc. During his first encounters with them, he had a serious amount of trouble. By the end of the season, he was one- and two-shotting a lot of them. In comparison, Elektra's performances against them, for example, remained fairly consistent. Which fits with what was said in that clip I mentioned, where they said something along the lines of that Matt had to become stronger, better and faster than he had ever been before to fight them.

I'm basing Thor's hard-hitting on how he pretty much floored every SHIELD agent he fought with a single hit, most of them knocked out cold, except for the last agent. Plus those are trained SHIELD agents with body armor, as compared to the usual criminal fodder that Frank takes out.

When Frank fights he uses a lot more brutal hits like knee kicks and neck snaps and the like, but he does usually need more than just one hit to take an opponent out. Just watch his prison fight scene and his fight against the construction crew.

Like I said, Frank uses more debilitating and brutal strikes, but Thor does seem to need fewer strikes to take out opponents. This is true either while he was in human form or when he was powered fighting equally superhuman fodder. Plus Thor is bigger, which means he can put more weight into his hits.

Punisher was destroyed before he got in a room with Fisk, and he still had fight enough in him to actually hurt Wilson, who has more feats than human Thor. And is straight up stronger than human Thor. He also tanked the beating Fisk gave him with no real problems. Thor's gonna need more than he's got to put Frank down.

Originally posted by KingD19
Punisher was destroyed before he got in a room with Fisk, and he still had fight enough in him to actually hurt Wilson, who has more feats than human Thor. And is straight up stronger than human Thor. He also tanked the beating Fisk gave him with no real problems. Thor's gonna need more than he's got to put Frank down.

I never questioned Frank's durability or damage soak. Just pointing out that Thor seems to hit harder whereas Frank hits more brutally.

Yeah, and I'm saying Frank has already dealt with a guy who hits harder than Thor, while being beaten, bloody, and broken. I don't think Thor would be able to just beat him down, which is how he fights. While Frank while literally break Thor's body, joints, etc...

Originally posted by FrothByte
I'm basing Thor's hard-hitting on how he pretty much floored every SHIELD agent he fought with a single hit, most of them knocked out cold, except for the last agent. Plus those are trained SHIELD agents with body armor, as compared to the usual criminal fodder that Frank takes out.

When Frank fights he uses a lot more brutal hits like knee kicks and neck snaps and the like, but he does usually need more than just one hit to take an opponent out. Just watch his prison fight scene and his fight against the construction crew.

Like I said, Frank uses more debilitating and brutal strikes, but Thor does seem to need fewer strikes to take out opponents. This is true either while he was in human form or when he was powered fighting equally superhuman fodder. Plus Thor is bigger, which means he can put more weight into his hits.

As I have mentioned before, Netflix fodder, by feats, are just tougher than most other MCU fodder. Take the construction crew fight you bring up. Those guys took way more sledgehammer hits than any RL humans would be able to and still be functional (IIRC, one guy took a shot right to the jaw and still attempted to run off). And we know Frank knows how to swing that hammer, as we spend a chunk of the first episode watching him smash down concrete walls. We see this phenomenon on the other Netflix shows as well.

Also, Frank might have fought criminal fodder, but he's also gone up against other soldiers, CIA Spec Ops guys, Jigsaw and his crew, Daredevil, and Kingpin. And a lot of it he did while battered and suffering from injuries.