Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.

Disclaimer: This only applies to Legends

The "EU is subjective". This is a claim; I constantly hear when discussing star wars. It particularly shows up in regards to Anakin wank. There are two quotes I have seen which supposedly purport this notion.



Leland claims in this quote that the EU serves as a "foggy mirror" of true continuity. I think the question asked was certainly leading, but regardless Chee contradicts his superiors and himself. Sue Rostini, Chee's former boss, has stated,



This certainly does not come across as a foggy mirror of the genuine artifact. But, Rostoni is not alone in her advocacy for the EU's canonicity and validity. Perhaps, the most viable source on this topic is Howard Roffman. Howard Roffman is the creator and approver of the EU. He serves as 2nd in command to Kathlene Kennady and has intimate knowledge of canon and the universe as a whole.





Roffman served as Lucas's right-hand man for over 30 years his knowledge on this subject is undoubtedly reliable. We also have Chee's predecessor Allan Kausch who had advocated for the EU's validity. I mentioned up above that Chee has contradicted himself, and this patently true. Here are multiple quotes by Chee which disavow the notion of parallel universes.



This next quote is the most damning.



Chee has also said there is only one continuity.



But George actually does try to bind himself to the material.



And as previously mentioned Lucas is involved in basically every major decision.









And to quote Lucas,



Lucas was especially active in the early-stages of the EU. Every darkhorse comic being approved personally by him. I hope this clears up some misconceptions.

Wrong forum, good compilation of quotes

I think you're using a somewhat vague definition of "subjective"; the foggy mirrors interpretation is very different from the parallel universe one.

Originally posted by The Ellimist
I think you're using a somewhat vague definition of "subjective"; the foggy mirrors interpretation is very different from the parallel universe one.

Well, the idea of it being a foggy mirror just is not corroborated by the vast majority of quotes. Chee has stated that there is no g-canon rather its all one thing. And Roffman says its completely accurate to Lucas's vision. And Ant has spoken about the subjective stuff.

Originally posted by DarthSkywalker0
Well, the idea of it being a foggy mirror just is not corroborated by the vast majority of quotes. Chee has stated that there is no g-canon rather its all one thing. And Roffman says its completely accurate to Lucas's vision. And Ant has spoken about the subjective stuff.

That doesn't contradict the foggy mirrors idea, which maps onto the real world pretty well; different sources of evidence in real life also have varying levels of accuracy (e.g. DNA testing vs. eyewitness testimony) that each help us paint different approximations of the "truth". Likewise, we know that the foggy mirrors model works to some degree at the very least because sources will literally give different lines of dialogue for the same events and we presumably know that the Star Wars universe doesn't really look like, say, a cartoon or animation.

Welp, due to the fact that most EU-during/post movies follow Lucas' vision is sort of subjectivity. Only TOR is free of Lucas' canon because it doesn't conflict with his characters.

Originally posted by The Ellimist
That doesn't contradict the foggy mirrors idea, which maps onto the real world pretty well; different sources of evidence in real life also have varying levels of accuracy (e.g. DNA testing vs. eyewitness testimony) that each help us paint different approximations of the "truth". Likewise, we know that the foggy mirrors model works to some degree at the very least because sources will literally give different lines of dialogue for the same events and we presumably know that the Star Wars universe doesn't really look like, say, a cartoon or animation.

Chee has said that there is only one continuity. There are no different levels. the G-canon idea is a myth as I will discuss in my next blog. It is meant to be directly accurate and they are constrained by Lucas completely. To quote Howard Roffman,

We wanted to send a clear message to our fans that everything we do is part of that overall saga.” ~Howard Roffman, Executive Vice President, Franchise Management.

Originally posted by DarthSkywalker0
Chee has said that there is only one continuity. There are no different levels. the G-canon idea is a myth as I will discuss in my next blog. It is meant to be directly accurate and they are constrained by Lucas completely. To quote Howard Roffman,

We wanted to send a clear message to our fans that everything we do is part of that overall saga.” ~Howard Roffman, Executive Vice President, Franchise Management.

Sorry but that doesn't address what I was saying at all.

Originally posted by The Ellimist
Sorry but that doesn't address what I was saying at all.

Your statement:



There is no variance in continuity. The only source that is more valid then the rest is the movies. There is just one continuity. The EU is not a foggy mirror of Lucas's true vision. It is a direct representation, as confirmed by Lucas's right-hand man.

Originally posted by DarthSkywalker0
Your statement:



There is no variance in continuity. The only source that is more valid then the rest is the movies. There is just one continuity. The EU is not a foggy mirror of Lucas's true vision. It is a direct representation, as confirmed by Lucas's right-hand man.

That there's one continuity doesn't mean that everything is perfectly accurate for reasons I provided (e.g. how do you deal with conflicting descriptions of equivalent events? Is the Star Wars universe constantly transitioning between cartoon and live action color schemes?)

Besides, if our metric is Lucas's vision (mine isn't, but yours appears to be) I don't think him "approving" a random NJO book put on his desk one morning is the same as him actually directing and meticulously revising one of the movies.

Originally posted by The Ellimist
Sorry but that doesn't address what I was saying at all.

How you mentioned differing dialogue, but that is just an error on the continuity editors, but the sources themselves are all equal in value and are all accurate with the films.

Originally posted by The Ellimist
That there's one continuity doesn't mean that everything is perfectly accurate for reasons I provided (e.g. how do you deal with conflicting descriptions of equivalent events? Is the Star Wars universe constantly transitioning between cartoon and live action color schemes?)

Besides, if our metric is Lucas's vision (mine isn't, but yours appears to be) I don't think him "approving" a random NJO book put on his desk one morning is the same as him actually directing and meticulously revising one of the movies.

Alright a few things, the differing dialogue is poor continuity editing. Lucas was involved in each NJO book, every big EU event, and looked at every dark horse series.

Originally posted by DarthSkywalker0
Alright a few things, the differing dialogue is poor continuity editing.

I doubt it. The RotS novelization for instance was line-edited by Lucas and yet has drastically different retellings of events that would be trivial to just match to the movie (thankfully Stover didn't do that) - some of the different dialogue and events he uses are obviously not like him misremembering RotS or misreading the script lol.



Um sure you're welcome to believe that Lucas cared about Legacy of the Force: Fury as much as he did about Revenge of the Sith.

Originally posted by The Ellimist
I doubt it. The RotS novelization for instance was line-edited by Lucas and yet has drastically different retellings of events that would be trivial to just match to the movie (thankfully Stover didn't do that) - some of the different dialogue and events he uses are obviously not like him misremembering RotS or misreading the script lol.

They are all meant to be 100% accurate but Lucas would still have authority in a battle. But, it is all meant to be one continuity.

Originally posted by The Ellimist
Um sure you're welcome to believe that Lucas cared about Legacy of the Force: Fury as much as he did about Revenge of the Sith.

Of course, he didn't. But he was apprised of all major events to ensure they stayed consistent with his vision.

Originally posted by DarthSkywalker0
They are all meant to be 100% accurate but Lucas would still have authority in a battle. But, it is all meant to be one continuity.

So all sources are equal, but some are more equal than others?

Originally posted by DarthSkywalker0
Of course, he didn't. But he was apprised of all major events to ensure they stayed consistent with his vision.

Yes but since you acknowledge there isn't 100% accuracy, obviously some sources get more attention than others, which is the point - it's a relative scale, not a black or white thing, even if that's by imperfection rather than design.

I do suppose you've reneged on the TFU-exaggerated argument then.

Originally posted by The Ellimist
So all sources are equal, but some are more equal than others?


They are all meant to be equal, but there can be imperfections. Think of it like canon today.



Well, the game itself can be exaggerated, because I am truly unsure how video games play into the true continuity.

Again it won't let me post links, but just look up 'Dave Filoni interview, extended edition', it was an episode of The Star Wars Show, here's the quote from it -

"There's this notion that everything changed when everything became Legends.
And I can see why people think that. But, you know, having worked with George
I can tell you that it was always very clear -- and he made it very clear --
that the films and the TV shows were the only things that he considered Canon.
That was it.*

"So everything else was a world of fun ideas, exciting characters, great
possibilities, the EU was created to explore all those things.And I know and I
fully respect peoples opinions about it that some of the material said 'the
next canon part of it' <wink,wink>.... But from the filmmaking world I was

brought into, *the films and TV shows were it".
~ Dave Filoni speaking about working with George Lucas

"Jacen and Jaina were never part of George's Story. They were Tim's invention.
~ Pablo Hidalgo 2016

-----------------

"There was no Jacen. No Jaina. No new Jedi Order. Chewie lived.
~ Pablo Hidalgo 2016


-----------------

"Canon is only what's on the screen. - Episodes I-VI, TCW and what's to come."
Pablo Hidalgo, 2013

--------------------


Question - "My question is, what did George's treatments for 7 look like? I
would love to see if they fit the EU.

Answer - "They did not. For instance, there was no Jaina,
Jacen, or Anakin."

--------------------



"The Son falling to the Darkside was always in the mix,the movies just ended up having it as an already established fact."

~ Pablo Hidalgo - The Tweets of San Francisco: A QM Production.
------------------



"There was no Ben Skywalker in George's Universe. He came from the NJO team."
~ Pablo Hidalgo 2016

---------------------

Question - "How many students were at Luke's'academy'? Was ot even an 'academy'?

Answer
- "We'd likely never use that term. That's very 'EU', not very George. It'd be a temple. As for numbers, can't say now."
~ Pablo Hidalgo 2016

------------------------


"Question from Today, but I thought this was pretty well known. George Lucas
never considered Jacen, Jaina, or Mara as part of his universe."

~ Pablo Hidalgo May 2016

--------------------------------

Commentator Question - "One last thing; why did Roffman keep saying that stuff

was canon even after 2008?

---


---


Pablo Hidalgo Answer - "I don't know why he'd say that."

"I do think they wanted to think George would consider their storytelling."

~ 2016
---------------------------------------------

Comment - "I remember George specifically saying Luke never married or had a
child, I think."

Response - "That was his take, especially in reaction to Mara Jade.
Jedi vows and all that." ~ Pablo Hidalgo 2019
---------------------

"George's starting point for 7 had no Jaina, Jacen, Anakin and

Chewie never died. So yeah."

- "Could we please send this to every EU purist we know?"

"They wont care."

"They will after what Hidalgo just said after this."

- "No, they won't. You can't correct the internet.The info's

out there. They've made up their minds."

----------------------------

2016

- "Some facebook site just posted a "Bring back George

Lucas" petition....wrong on so many levels. With Ep. lll & TCW he went out on

a high."

"Why would he ever come back to these folks? All that love and

goodwill from the internet.=]"

- "I remember the EU fans in the early-mid 00's trashed

George endlessly, and now they act like he's their savior."

- "And yet we are following his model of regarding the EU vs.

his canon. Weird."

- "Well they get the false impression that George was a

big EU fan and stood by it."

- "Where do they get this stuff? =] It's like his last 3

movies and six seasons of TCW didn't happen!"
-------------------------------

"Fast forward to 2012, when we hear George is looking to make SW movies again,

I thought 'I wonder what next Mon Calamari's gonna be.'"
"And it turns out, the Mon Calamari this time was huge swaths of the EU. There was no Jacen, no Jaina. No new Jedi Order. Chewie lived. "Not suprising, but there it was"

~ Pablo Hidalgo, 2016, speaking on Lucas' ST treatments he wrote in 2011
--------------------------------

"In the old days, George Lucas saw his universe as separate from publishing
. He wasn't at all interested in connecting."

~ Pablo Hidalgo 2016

Good stuff

"Good stuff" is an understatement. I nearly got teary-eyed.

This is the kind of discussion these forums are for!

Everything controlled by the Story Group my left foot. Y'all can't even get your **** together and have a ton of contradictions/retcons and whatever already.