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Tpm Maul meets "Revan" incarnation Vitiate in the fields of Dantooine. If Maul destroys make it Valkorion. If Vitiate wins make it Post Nathema Vitiate. Who wins?

Distance?

6 meters away.

Originally posted by The Merchant
6 meters away.

Maul wins.

vs. Valkorion: depends on how quickly Valkorion reacts; on paper Valkorion has the tools to win if he pulls them off.

Originally posted by The Merchant
6 meters away. Ooft. Maul's in with a shot in that case.

The Emperor in a single attack.

Hard to say both are highly incompetent

Vitiate, zero effort.

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
The Emperor in a single attack. Originally posted by slayne
Vitiate, zero effort. What's his best reaction feat that applies off-nexus and at a 20 foot distance?

>tmw tenebrae has only once set foot on a non-nexus environment

Originally posted by ILS
What's his best reaction feat that applies off-nexus and at a 20 foot distance?

Stopping time as a spirit.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
>tmw tenebrae has only once set foot on a non-nexus environment
Ouch.

Just looking through my old documents and this feat in particular stands out:



So while avoiding security patrols, skylights and motion detection lasers, Maul runs, jumps and climbs through these headquarters so quickly that if you even wanted a camera to see him, it needs to be put in slow motion. Not see him with any great clarity, just finally be able to register he exists. And this isn't him in a combat situation, trying to murder his opponent with absolute efficiency, travelling in a straight line, which would allow him to move much more quickly.

Vitiate might not be ready in time before Maul cuts his head off here.

All jokes aside, it should be clear Vitiate can operate at speeds vastly greater than Maul, lawl.

Why's that kiddo?

There's generally a clear correlation between Force power and Force power-augmented speed.

Not always.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
There's generally a clear correlation between Force power and Force power-augmented speed.

And a clear correlation between Vitiate and underperforming in combat.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
All jokes aside, it should be clear Vitiate can operate at speeds vastly greater than Maul, lawl.



HoT was literally a foot away from an insanely weakened Vitiate and no blitzing occurred. Still don't see Vitiate not defeating Maul in a single attack.

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
You and I are the upholders of the PT

Novel Vitiate != SWTOR Vitiate. Novel Vitiate on a powerful dark side nexus gets disarmed by Meetra Surik's saber throw, nearly blindsided by T3, and knocked on his ass by his own lightning bolts. There's basically no evidence that he has bothered to refine his reflexes or close-quarters combat abilities at all, given that his imperial guard basically makes it impossible for any of his fodder to get as close to him as Maul starts in this fight.

Likewise, Force augmentation is correlated more closely with "raw" power than other, more external abilities are, and Maul's raw potential rivals Palpatine's. Add that to his far more relevant training and specialization in close quarters combat and speed-blitzing feats and it's unclear if a sorcerer like Tenebrae would be prepared to deal with one of the fastest and deadliest combatants in the mythos standing six meters away from him.

(HoT was also weakened but ILS and co. can handle that)

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ


HoT was literally a foot away from an insanely weakened Vitiate and no blitzing occurred. Still don't see Vitiate not defeating Maul in a single attack. HoT had also just fought through an army of enemies on a dark side nexus which weakens him. Not to mention Vitiate was nexus boosted. You can prove who was worse off if you'd like to take that up.

It's entirely possible that Maul is much faster on the draw than the HoT in fresh condition, as well, and he won't entertain Vitiate's monologue. Unless the HoT has any notable speed feats I'm missing.

Plus after they start "fighting" Vitiate has only moved forward a few paces from where he started, and has been cut open, so clearly starting the fight up close with a less powerful opponent didn't end well for him. I struggle to see how it will against Maul, given the aforementioned speed feat and the distance given here (which Maul can close in well under a second, easily).

http://static4.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11123/111233150/4580267-5870481840-FoD7V.gif

^ lmao look at his battle tactics against someone he's more powerful than but has a close-quarters handicap against - he walks towards him shooting lightning that clearly isn't working with no attempt to maintain distance or alter his tactics at all. And this is for defending himself during a ritual that he's been planning for 1000 years.

Originally posted by ILS
HoT had also just fought through an army of enemies on a dark side nexus which weakens him. Not to mention Vitiate was nexus boosted. You can prove who was worse off if you'd like to take that up.
Vitiate was just starved after a failed galaxy ritual, lol.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Vitiate was just starved after a failed galaxy ritual, lol. How does that offset anything I've said? I acknowledged he was weakened.

Originally posted by The Ellimist
look at his battle tactics against someone he's more powerful than but has a close-quarters handicap against
What makes you think he was more powerful than the HoT at that point, lmfao?

Originally posted by slayne
What makes you think he was more powerful than the HoT at that point, lmfao? All of the HoT's successes seem to come from his lightsaber, whereas the Emperor is able to push him back with the Force. And like I said, the HoT was pretty badly weakened, which even Vitiate acknowledges.

Is there any clarification either way as to who is more powerful?

Originally posted by ILS
All of the HoT's successes seem to come from his lightsaber, whereas the Emperor is able to push him back with the Force.

Is there any clarification either way as to who is more powerful?
The HoT barely stumbles a few feet back after Vitiate charged up his attack for a good few seconds - and we see how much a few seconds of charge increases his ability in Revan.

When he didn't charge up his attack, the HoT just casually walked through his lightning with little to no apparent difficulty. And power relative to the attacker is directly correlated with ability to block attacks coming from that attacker, as we see with Vitiate and the strike team.

All in all, the HoT should be more powerful IMO.

@slayne
He didn't charge up his attack for a good few seconds, he just pushed the HoT away. https://youtu.be/vT6T1Lxph4k?t=6m21s

AotC Kenobi laughed off Dooku's lightning, but I fail to see how that proves he's more powerful than the Count. And no, you can certainly block someone's attack without being more powerful than them; see Kas'im blocking Bane's charged up telekinesis.

It's pretty unclear who is more powerful aside from the obvious roles of knight vs sorcerer that are on display, and while Vitiate is weakened, it's also noted by Scourge that he is quick to recover; and that is before you get a ship to the temple and fight through it.
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-OFRbcsfH9js/WmVZPWDw28I/AAAAAAAAHX4/DVMYW3y8HUwSxprcODDQ9u67cER24zP-QCL0BGAYYCw/h33/Screenshot%2B2018-01-22%2Bat%2B03.23.03.png

Since we know Vitiate is ordinarily far more powerful than the HoT, that he was on a nexus and quickly recovering, and that the HoT was weakened twicefold from having to fight an army and the nexus itself, it's pretty plausible he'd be the weaker Force user here.

Tbh at this distance (circa 18 feet) Maul cuts him down.

Unless someone can provide speed feats for Vitiate that compare to Maul's?

Maul sabers throws.

Yeah, that would work.

Valkorion, who is definitely comparable to novel Vitiate, can block lightsabers with little to no effort indefinitely, and definitely has the power to back up taking Maul out with one attack. Thread is beyond ridiculous.

At what speed he was blocking those saber strikes?

The kind where the guy swinging is trying to kill him.

LOL

Is the guy swinging comparable to Maul speed-wise? If not, not sure why you brought it up.

Originally posted by Stigma
At what speed he was blocking those saber strikes?

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
The kind where the guy swinging is trying to kill him.

Nice job not answering the question given that Arcann was slowly striking him ANH style.

So you want to argue ANH doesn't accurately portray the speed of Vader but the cut scenes accurately portray the speed of Arcann?

How fast is Arcann? Comparable to Maul?

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
So you want to argue ANH doesn't accurately portray the speed of Vader but the cut scenes accurately portray the speed of Arcann?

I mean if we want to go OOU, ANH has clear production limitations that don't really apply to TOR. The in-universe explanation is that Arcann was stalling anyway.

Maul slicing those dudes in a flicker of an eyelash is something that needs to be quantified.

Originally posted by The Ellimist
I mean if we want to go OOU, ANH has clear production limitations that don't really apply to TOR. The in-universe explanation is that Arcann was stalling anyway.
Are you saying it can't speed up the fight to 25x speed, which is probably where you think Vader and Obi-Wan's actual speed is relative to that fight?

Answer: I'm pretty sure it has that capability.

The reason why that never happened is the same reason Arcann doesn't move faster than we can see either.

I'm also interested in seeing where Arcann was stalling.

Originally posted by ILS
Not always.
Missed this: care to point to specific examples of powerful Force users significantly slower than weaker Force users?

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Missed this: care to point to specific examples of powerful Force users significantly slower than weaker Force users? Kyp Durron is absurdly powerful but isn't even faster than Kyle Katarn, Mara or Jaina. And he actually trains with a lightsaber unlike Vitiate.

If you want to prove Vitiate has good reaction speed, I need more than "he's super powerful" - Force speed and lightsaber combat are skills that improve with training like any other.

In case anyone didn't know, Zakuul is a Force nexus, so Valkorion was amped when he blocked those saber strikes. Anyone wanna prove Vitiate can block lightsaber attacks off-nexus?

Any other examples? Durron is quite unconvincing since his raw power and applicable power doesn't translate well due to reasons he noted in NJO.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Any other examples? Durron is quite unconvincing since his raw power and applicable power doesn't translate well due to reasons he noted in NJO. Vitiate's a good one.

How about you go ahead and show me where raw power and Force speed improve perfectly linearly.

Originally posted by Azronger
In case anyone didn't know, Zakuul is a Force nexus, so Valkorion was amped when he blocked those saber strikes. Anyone wanna prove Vitiate can block lightsaber attacks off-nexus?

Arcann was also amped, and yes, Chapter 16.

ILS wrecking itt like

https://i.imgur.com/D6l8fu1.gif

Originally posted by ILS
Vitiate's a good one.

How about you go ahead and show me where raw power and Force speed improve perfectly linearly.



In the novel, Vitiate clearly had worse reaction time than Revan.

Originally posted by ILS
Vitiate's a good one.

How about you go ahead and show me where raw power and Force speed improve perfectly linearly.
I would point to the prequel trilogy as the golden example, but I find the burden of proof is more on you, since my stance holds logically --

Factually, the more midichlorians a Force-user has, the more Force energy flowing into them, logically meaning greater augmentation of speed.

There are exceptions to this rule in individuals who devote their Force energy specifically to speed, but they are weaker in all other areas (i.e. Raskta Lsu).

Mace is another exception in which, via Vaapad, he's able to augment his body with an amount of Force energy beyond that he normally could.

In the case of Vitiate vs Maul, there's no reason for normal conditions to not hold true. Based on what Vitiate does in KOTFE/KOTET, it definitely seems true.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
There are exceptions to this rule in individuals who devote their Force energy specifically to speed, but they are weaker in all other areas (i.e. Raskta Lsu).


And yet Maul vs. Vitiate represents, to some extent, that dichotomy, as Maul has trained his entire life to be a ruthlessly efficient assassin and duelist while Vitiate demonstrates complete ineptitude any time he actually has to fight someone seriously. It's hardly implausible to imagine that Maul would have better refined close quarters reaction times due to a combo of greater practice using the Force in that context and generally superior awareness/training/etc.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
I would point to the prequel trilogy as the golden example, but I find the burden of proof is more on you, since my stance holds logically --

Factually, the more midichlorians a Force-user has, the more Force energy flowing into them, logically meaning greater augmentation of speed.Speed augmentation is something that 1. requires training and 2. can be increased by pouring more effort into it specifically.

To suggest that this isn't a craft that needs to be honed with intense training is a bit silly.
Yeah. What you spend time on, you tend to be stronger at.

Mace's speed is a direct product of his intense training, the Sidious fight being irrelevant. His most impressive descriptions of speed tend to refer to his lightsaber mimicing the Vaapad creature the style is named after, which happens to be extremely fast.

Vitiate who has, to my knowledge, no worthwhile lightsaber accomplishments or any vested interest in training with one.

We're talking about novel Vitiate here.

edit

Vitiate demonstrates a Juyo lightsaber sequence, circa 3900BBY.

https://i.imgur.com/a0Y7XCQ.gif

Originally posted by ILS
Kyp Durron is absurdly powerful but isn't even faster than Kyle Katarn, Mara or Jaina. And he actually trains with a lightsaber unlike Vitiate.
These are some good points ILS

Tbh I think that Vitiate's standing in relation to his speed needs to be revisited. This can greatly influence his postion in the pecking order too.


Example:

Originally posted by ILS
Vitiate demonstrates a Juyo lightsaber sequence, circa 3900BBY.

https://i.imgur.com/a0Y7XCQ.gif

Nobody, in a span of 1300+ years, was able to blitz Vitiate but Darth Maul will.

----

Proof that Vitiate lifted a chair?

Darth Maul did it

Proof that Vitiate closed a door?

Darth Maul did it

Darth Maul > Vitiate

----

KMC debating 101

Sheevites are turning into the biggest bunch of trolls at this rate.

Originally posted by Azronger
In case anyone didn't know, Zakuul is a Force nexus, so Valkorion was amped when he blocked those saber strikes. Anyone wanna prove Vitiate can block lightsaber attacks off-nexus?

They were in orbit, actually.

That doesn't mean he wasn't amped lol

The burden would be on you to prove that he was.

Also the Outlander replicates the feat after getting powered up by Valk (though still far inferior to him).

I see a similar outcome to Palps vs Maul

^ Yeah Maul blitzes

Originally posted by ILS
@slayne
He didn't charge up his attack for a good few seconds, he just pushed the HoT away. https://youtu.be/vT6T1Lxph4k?t=6m21s
...what? He keeps his hand reared for at least 2 seconds before he pushes the HoT, and dark side energy, lightning, etc. almost englulfs him as he releases the wave. Contrast that with the other force attack he uses in that scene, the lightning (which was flung instantaneously, with no effort, without any visible dark side energy at all and cast from the same kneeling position) and it becomes pretty clear that he charged the push.

Again, what? The lightning that he fires at Kenobi and the lightning which he'd use when he wants to kill his opponent are vastly different in terms of potency. Firstly, he's giving Kenobi a chance to back down when he fires the lightning; obviously he's not going to let loose his full armada and kill him before he even gets a chance to consider surrender. He was warning him to stay away. Secondly, it doesn't make any sense that the lightning which Kenobi "laughed off" was deflected "far from easily" by his emphatic superior in Yoda. This isn't a valid example.

And it seems there's an inconsistency: we see an affirmation of my stance in TOR in the form of Vitiate's fight with the strike team. The two less powerful members of the team relative to Vitiate - Narezz and Sedoru - immediately get overwhelmed by the lightning, even with their blades drawn and deflecting the lightning. The two more powerful members of the team relative to Vitiate - Braga and the HoT - manage to deflect his lightning for a prolonged amount of time, before eventually getting overwhelmed once he puts forth a concentrated attack. It's made clear that, at least in the TOR medium, your ability to block an attack directly corresponds with your power relative to the attacker - and as our debate concerns TOR subject matter, this would apply more accurately to the material in question than an example from a completely different source.

With that in mind, can you provide the Kas'im quote? (not contesting it, just don't have it on hand right now)

We don't know exactly how much Vitiate was weakened relative to the HoT, though. He could've been weakened to the point where the HoT might've stomped him had he not been on a nexus and fought through an army, and given the scale of the ritual, it's entirely plausible that he wasted an amount of energy on the ritual sufficient enough for that to be the case.

@slayne
Clip starts at :22. A flash appears at :23. Push happens at :24. Not interested in your conjecture, there's no indication he charged this push "for a good few seconds." It was just a Force push. He spends the same amount of time "charging" (that is to say none) the lightning.
Fair enough, forgot he wasn't trying to merk him there.
If your assertion is that the HoT must necessarily be more powerful than Vitiate because he blocked his lightning, that's just conjecture. Vitiate at that point was wounded and walked into the lightsaber. Although I'll grant you that power does seem to have a correlative effect on how well you can block lightning.
Making me read this garbage just to torment me?



As you can see, the much more powerful Bane, even with a charged telekinetic attack, can't break through a last-second barrier put up by Kas'im.
Yeah, we don't know, but what you just said is mere conjecture. Not to mention irrelevant since we're discussing who is more powerful at the time of the fight.

Not to mention, there is a version of the fight where Vitiate is given, according to Scourge, far too much time to recover his strength.

"We have surprised the Emperor, but he will recover quickly."
https://youtu.be/vT6T1Lxph4k?t=3m3s

"You gave the Emperor time to gather his strength. We are all fortunate to be alive."
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zoFNJ7UophU&feature=youtu.be&t=590

Vitiate himself also states that the HoT wasted his own energy saving his friends.

"You dissipated your energy saving the weak. There are consequences."
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zoFNJ7UophU&feature=youtu.be&t=385

If Vitiate is weaker than the HoT while on a powerful dark side nexus, given apparently ample time to recover much of his power, and while the HoT himself is notably weaker from being on said nexus and wasting energy fighting on it, then I hope you can prove it.

I still maintain that Vitiate may not be prepared for a random 20-foot CQC encounter with someone like Maul. I'll agree with you he's clearly far more powerful, but I'm not sold he will survive given the distance.

Maul is especially noted to be a very fast combatant. Valkorion is yet to demonstrate such speed feats and going by his novel showing he is not that great in combat reaction. I don't see how the fact that Valky is powerful grants him supreme speed, example:


Originally posted by Sirion_Of_Doom
This was brought up elsewhere, and not refuted.

The logic inherently contradicts itself. Valkorion, based on feats and accolades, is more powerful than Kit Fisto, and therefore faster than him. But Kit Fisto, based on feats and accolades is faster than Valkorion, and therefore more powerful than him... what?


With the distance specified in the OP, Maul has a very big chance of winning this due to skill and speed.


Originally posted by Darth Thor
^ Yeah Maul blitzes

None of what Scourge or the Emperor says actually confirms anything you claimed ILS.

Maul isn't even blitzing Malgus, rofl.

Originally posted by AncientPower
None of what Scourge or the Emperor says actually confirms anything you claimed ILS. It's merely supporting evidence of something I already said cannot be confirmed one way or another, although the evidence seems to be in my favour.

this is so pathetic! vitiate stomps!

Originally posted by The Ellimist
Novel Vitiate != SWTOR Vitiate. Novel Vitiate on a powerful dark side nexus gets disarmed by Meetra Surik's saber throw, nearly blindsided by T3, and knocked on his ass by his own lightning bolts. There's basically no evidence that he has bothered to refine his reflexes or close-quarters combat abilities at all, given that his imperial guard basically makes it impossible for any of his fodder to get as close to him as Maul starts in this fight.


One must love the fact, that people keep attempting to discredit Vitiate, using a fight he clearly didn't take siriously. You may want to look at the beginning of that fight. Vitiate would have viewed Revan as a person he easily dominated before - no threat. Scourge was his servant - no threat. Only Meetra would have been an unknown to him, but less powerful than Revan - no threat. So at that point, he didn't need to watch out for anything.

When Vitiate started to take that fight seriously, he obliterated T3 with a casual blast and overpowered Revan's force defence in a split-second. It is in that instance in which Scourge notices that even Revan, Meetra and himself combined would probably not stand a chance against Vitiate when they were all pretty much in "close quarters" with him. So why do you think Maul would stand a chance?



First: Vitiate has absorbed the power of an entire planet including hundreds or even thousands of Sith Lords and millions of Sith/Massassi. His "raw power" does probably eclipse that of anybody in the mythos, if only because of that ritual he performed to enhance himself.

Second: I don't get why people assume that Vitiate would need to "react" to a charge by Maul. This is a versus fight. They would both try to kill their opponent instantly. So Maul needs to cross the 6 meters of distance (which he, without doubt, can do rather fast) but all that Vitiate needs to do is point a finger at Maul (if even that) and the Sith apprentice would just vanish in a flash of lightning, leaving two smouldering boots behind. If Vitiate does even need gestures, provided he obliterated the entire cast of a Dark Council once by toasting them on the steps to the palace, apparently without even leaving his throne room.

Thirdly: Vitiate/Valkorion has already demonstrated his ability to summon force fields capable of defending him against lightsaber attacks (parrying lightsaber attack with his bare hands). So he could probably just sit this out, if he really wanted to.

And in all honesty: It's pretty obvious, that Vitiate/Valkorion has been designed as the most powerful "regular" being in the mythos, but designed with character flaws that enable his opponents to get to him (and defeat him) in the first place. Removing those, which is usually done for a versus fight, Vitiate - even in his "Revan" incarnation - would casually destroy anybody up to Revan tier. With Maul being far below that level. No matter how close you put him to the Sith Emperor.

Originally posted by Nai
One must love the fact, that people keep attempting to discredit Vitiate, using a fight he clearly didn't take siriously. You may want to look at the beginning of that fight. Vitiate would have viewed Revan as a person he easily dominated before - no threat. Scourge was his servant - no threat. Only Meetra would have been an unknown to him, but less powerful than Revan - no threat. So at that point, he didn't need to watch out for anything.


His overconfidence might have been a semi-coherent excuse up until Revan resists his TP and knocks him on his ass in the opening moves of the fight. Then, if Vitiate still doesn't take Revan seriously, he's a top tier moron. If he likewise continues to not do so after having get knocked on his ass by his own lightning and subsequently blindsided by both T3 and Meetra, then he probably just walks onto Maul's lightsaber from sheer stupidity.



???

This statement is just completely wrong on every level:

1. Vitiate had already started taking the fight seriously, yet despite the throne room being depicted as a long walkway with only one entrance:

https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/starwars/images/d/d1/Revan_Malak_Sith_Emperor.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20100611224513

T3 manages to move in front of a Revan who had already made considerable headway (given that Revan sees T3), before Vitiate finally notices him at the last moment.

2. He is so pressed to stop T3's flamethrower that he has to stop what he's doing just to defend himself from it (contrast: Sidious no-sells Plagueis's telekinesis while continuing to electrocute him at the end of the Plagueis novel)

3. He then unleashes "the full power of the dark side" to destroy an R2D2 sized droid.

Now sure how you're trying to spin this into a positive feat for him, lmao.



He still has to raise his arms and gather his energy with some amount of time - there's not enough distance in this confrontation for that to happen.



??? Scourge gets flashes of visions that depict both his victory and defeat in the throne room; we have no idea what the most likely outcome was.

In either case, Scourge and Meetra are both fodder-tier combatants at that stage in the timeline, so it's kind of funny that their presence is so important. It would be like Sidious getting threatened because Mace Windu brought Kit Fisto and three other pretty powerful Jedi Masters with him, except Scourge and Meetra are even weak-ohhhh.



That's just embarrassing then, because you think he has more raw power than anyone else and 1000+ years to unlock it but still almost dies to T3.

In all seriousness, even if you think Vitiate > Sidious, the latter clear has more potential even post-Nathema because he's grown as powerful as he has by Dark Empire in the course of like nine decades.



Doesn't matter. Vitiate's combat reflexes are sh*t and he has horrible awareness. 6 meters might as well be point blank range given Maul's speed feats. I'm also not convinced that he would overpower Maul at that range without gathering his energy for some amount of time.

The dark council scene isn't relevant at all; Vitiate isn't inviting Maul to visit him in his own fortress at a time of his choosing to conveniently kill him with a mysterious technique he never uses in any other context.



Novel Vitiate? But again, gotta see evidence he'd react in time after his atrocious performance in the novel.



Though I don't think Vitiate is the most powerful "regular" being, I agree that if he trained in combat for a bit he'd defeat Maul. But when we get rid of character flaws for the sake of a debate we usually mean moral inhibitions, not combat skill.

Originally posted by The Ellimist
1. Vitiate had already started taking the fight seriously, yet despite the throne room being depicted as a long walkway with only one entrance:

https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/starwars/images/d/d1/Revan_Malak_Sith_Emperor.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20100611224513

T3 manages to move in front of a Revan who had already made considerable headway (given that Revan sees T3), before Vitiate finally notices him at the last moment.

That's an inaccurate depiction, its described very differently in the novel. Thats just Gnost Durals guesstimation of it.

Is anyone taking this thread seriously?
Or do people actually believe Maul has a chance?

They're trolling.

The Revan novel's writing though...

Originally posted by Nephthys
They're trolling.
I'd hope so.

Otherwise this forum would lose what credibility it had, kek.

Originally posted by Nephthys
They're trolling. Originally posted by Haschwalth
I'd hope so.

Otherwise this forum would lose what credibility it had, kek. Getting to be quite a popular cop-out in the absence of arguments for #teamswtor

Originally posted by The Ellimist
The Revan novel's writing though...
you keen for a Darth Maul vote over valkorian in a few more matches, in ants tournament?

First we needa put, dooku/Revan etc in front of that.

Originally posted by ILS
Getting to be quite a popular cop-out in the absence of arguments for #teamswtor
hmm I might as well take Ct123's malak force Drain speed blog.
That outdoes any PT speed movement feat.

****, might as well start arguing Malak would blitz Sidious with that.

Originally posted by Haschwalth
you keen for a Darth Maul vote over valkorian in a few more matches, in ants tournament?

First we needa put, dooku/Revan etc in front of that.

If Windu wins, at the moment I'd vote UnuThul, Krayt, Caedus and Tenebrous above Valkorion. Not sure if I'll make the leap and put Vader down too.

Originally posted by Haschwalth
hmm I might as well take Ct123's malak force Drain speed blog.
That outdoes any PT speed movement feat.

****, might as well start arguing Malak would blitz Sidious with that.

Link?

Originally posted by The Ellimist
If Windu wins, at the moment I'd vote UnuThul, Krayt, Caedus and Tenebrous above Valkorion. Not sure if I'll make the leap and put Vader down too.



Link?

https://www.narutoforums.org/xfa-blog-entry/star-wars-feat-malaks-movement-and-force-drain-speed.19662/#comment-153389

Relativistic movement speeds.

Revan scales to that, it's amazing Vitiate could even react to Revan.
Rofl.

Originally posted by Haschwalth
https://www.narutoforums.org/xfa-blog-entry/star-wars-feat-malaks-movement-and-force-drain-speed.19662/#comment-153389

Relativistic movement speeds.

Yeah see the difference is that our arguments aren't retarded. Literally his entire calculation is predicated on thinking that the ship is moving at the same speed that its "speed" is rated at on a sourcebook which makes zero sense whatsoever given that there's no "maximum" speed in space below c and perhaps the drag of cosmic particles and so the ship could be moving at any speed relative to Malak; indeed in almost every space battle we see they don't move anywhere near how fast they could accelerate to, for whatever reason.

But it's good to note that you'll take my Starkiller-oneshots-ISD's-shields feat at face value (not that it shares the same legit criticisms).

Originally posted by The Ellimist
Yeah see the difference is that our arguments aren't retarded. Literally his entire calculation is predicated on thinking that the ship is moving at the same speed that its "speed" is rated at on a sourcebook which makes zero sense whatsoever given that there's no "maximum" speed in space below c and perhaps the drag of cosmic particles and so the ship could be moving at any speed relative to Malak; indeed in almost every space battle we see they don't move anywhere near how fast they could accelerate to, for whatever reason.

But it's good to note that you'll take my Starkiller-oneshots-ISD's-shields feat at face value (not that it shares the same legit criticisms).

Arguing Maul could blitz Valkorian is just as retarded from their point of view.
There is speeds ships go in space without hitting light speed, what you think they jump to LS, the moment they enter space? No they have a maximum set speed before they enter hyperspace. you think your opinion is more reliable than a source book. Ok. WTf is a cosmic particle drag?

Though please, I encourage you to go debunk that feat of theirs, on NF.

Originally posted by Haschwalth
Arguing Maul could blitz Valkorian is just as retarded from their point of view.

I don't care lol, that doesn't mean that it is and the arguments on your team's side have thus far been lacking.



??? What does that have to do with the feat lmao



I have no idea how the speed the ships go to before hyperspace has anything to do with CT's calc unless if he explained it really poorly.



Well I was trying to figure out what the "speed" of a ship in space could be do it's either like the maximum speed it can accelerate to given its fuel (which wouldn't bode well for the calc since it presumably isn't going at that speed) or maybe that's the speed at which the force exerted by stray hydrogen particles found in a vacuum equal the thrust of its engines or something, but it's an absurdly arbitrary assumption to say that the ships are moving at that velocity just 'cause.

Originally posted by The Ellimist
I don't care lol, that doesn't mean that it is and the arguments on your team's side have thus far been lacking.



??? What does that have to do with the feat lmao



I have no idea how the speed the ships go to before hyperspace has anything to do with CT's calc unless if he explained it really poorly.



Well I was trying to figure out what the "speed" of a ship in space could be do it's either like the maximum speed it can accelerate to given its fuel (which wouldn't bode well for the calc since it presumably isn't going at that speed) or maybe that's the speed at which the force exerted by stray hydrogen particles found in a vacuum equal the thrust of its engines or something, but it's an absurdly arbitrary assumption to say that the ships are moving at that velocity just 'cause.

1. That's the point, no point in insulting it, because they have the same view about your arguments thus, it's pointless.

2.

You seemed to have said ships don't have a max speed before they go hyperspace, in space.

3.He literally has a quote with the speed of those ships he was quoting in space, and had good reason it was hitting near those speeds, as the ships had been engaged in battle for minutes, giving it time to reach those speeds.

4.Each of those ships have a planetary level core of energy, they easily could hit relativistic speeds. And no it's not just cause it's the stated speed, that they move.

Originally posted by Haschwalth
1. That's the point, no point in insulting it, because they have the same view about your arguments thus, it's pointless.


lolwut

Did you just try to blanket dismiss any sort of argumentation as equally valid on some nihilistic principle to get out of a silly calc you brought up?



https://i.imgur.com/IZDzYBu.gif

wtf are you saying lol



Except we see fleet battles in Star Wars and the ships don't regularly start reaching hypersonic velocities relative to one another lol. I'm not saying they can't reach these speeds, they just don't employ them in fleet combat for whatever reason.



I'm sorry but your posts regarding this feat have been literally incoherent.

Originally posted by Haschwalth
https://www.narutoforums.org/xfa-blog-entry/star-wars-feat-malaks-movement-and-force-drain-speed.19662/#comment-153389

Relativistic movement speeds.

Malak can move at relativistic speeds now, can he?

Obi-Wan used the Force to summon his lightsaber and tossed it to Anakin. With two lightsabers, the young Jedi attacked anew. Bur Dooku blocked every thrust and, step by step, drove Anakin back. He slashed through one lightsaber, extinguishing its blade. Then, with a stroke faster than light, he cut through Anakin's right arm at the elbow.

The young Jedi dropped to the ground in agony, gripping the smoking stump of his sword arm.

Mighty Chronicles: Attack of the Clones

How cute.

Originally posted by The Ellimist
lolwut

Did you just try to blanket dismiss any sort of argumentation as equally valid on some nihilistic principle to get out of a silly calc you brought up?



https://i.imgur.com/IZDzYBu.gif

wtf are you saying lol



Except we see fleet battles in Star Wars and the ships don't regularly start reaching hypersonic velocities relative to one another lol. I'm not saying they can't reach these speeds, they just don't employ them in fleet combat for whatever reason.



I'm sorry but your posts regarding this feat have been literally incoherent.

1. I'm commenting on the fact you find calling retarded is pointless, it may be from your perspective, but not from theirs.

2.Ships hit a certain max velocity that they can reach in space, this is fact. In fiction or not. those republic ships happen to be able to move at relativistic speeds.

3.As evident where, fighters can reach Relativistic speeds in space.

from the ROts novelisation


4. probably because I could of said all of it on one of your posts.

Originally posted by Azronger
Malak can move at relativistic speeds now, can he?

Obi-Wan used the Force to summon his lightsaber and tossed it to Anakin. With two lightsabers, the young Jedi attacked anew. Bur Dooku blocked every thrust and, step by step, drove Anakin back. He slashed through one lightsaber, extinguishing its blade. Then, with a stroke faster than light, he cut through Anakin's right arm at the elbow.

The young Jedi dropped to the ground in agony, gripping the smoking stump of his sword arm.

Mighty Chronicles: Attack of the Clones

How cute.

Funny how you don't know the difference between movement speed and reaction speed, the same post I sent you has Malak's drain speed at 1.5C rofl.

facepalm

Originally posted by Azronger
facepalm

Originally posted by Azronger
facepalm

facepalm

Reaction speed, is combat speed. Movement speed is travelling speed FYI.

Originally posted by Haschwalth
1. I'm commenting on the fact you find calling retarded is pointless, it may be from your perspective, but not from theirs.


After you started this tangent by incredulously wondering how we were backing Maul you want to pivot to "all stances are equally valid"? Lol ok then.



https://media1.giphy.com/media/LvVcFbkQajS8M/200.gif

The only speed limit in space is the speed of light, which you can approach asymptotically but never reach, lmao.



?? I just said that ships can reach relativistic speeds, I just said that there's no reason to think they were moving that fast in that scene because they basically never do in that context.



Your sentences literally don't make any sense lol, wtf does that mean?

Originally posted by The Ellimist
After you started this tangent by incredulously wondering how we were backing Maul you want to pivot to "all stances are equally valid"? Lol ok then.



https://media1.giphy.com/media/LvVcFbkQajS8M/200.gif

The only speed limit in space is the speed of light, which you can approach asymptotically but never reach, lmao.



?? I just said that ships can reach relativistic speeds, I just said that there's no reason to think they were moving that fast in that scene because they basically never do in that context.



Your sentences literally don't make any sense lol, wtf does that mean?

1.This is pointless.

2.If you want to go down that path, we simply haven't developed enough of an understanding, to assume Light speed is the limit. SW universe is beyond our level of understanding.

3. The Quote was literally in combat, which contradicts your statement, they do fight at these speeds in space combat.

Originally posted by The Ellimist
The Revan novel's writing though...

God, I know.

The dude wrote an entire chapter that he just forgot to put into the book. How do you forget a whole ****ing chapter? Its insane.

Aryn Leneer can observe pseudomotion as if in slow motion, so there's literally no speed feats the PT brigade could possibly have that could blitz her. If we want to go down that line of logic.

Anytime people start throwing around terms like "faster than light" just remember:

https://media.giphy.com/media/ZT8hztpnWecQE/giphy.gif

Originally posted by Nephthys
Anytime people start throwing around terms like "faster than light" just remember:

https://media.giphy.com/media/ZT8hztpnWecQE/giphy.gif

Canon GG.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Anytime people start throwing around terms like "faster than light" just remember:

https://media.giphy.com/media/ZT8hztpnWecQE/giphy.gif

https://i.imgflip.com/1cexv9.gif

lmfao ok

Not that we're talking about canon Maul anyway.

Originally posted by The Ellimist
https://i.imgflip.com/1cexv9.gif

lmfao ok

Not that we're talking about canon Maul anyway.

PIS, suppose to be a force user, nice try, his body would be incinerated by Valks power, wtf do you think happened to Nihilus or the fact, Valk needed a insanely strong force potential body.
You can do better than that.

Originally posted by Nephthys
God, I know.

The dude wrote an entire chapter that he just forgot to put into the book. How do you forget a whole ****ing chapter? Its insane.

What was it on? Probably for the best anyway, given how shit the book was.

Originally posted by Haschwalth
PIS, suppose to be a force user, nice try, his body would be incinerated by Valks power, wtf do you think happened to Nihilus or the fact, Valk needed a insanely strong force potential body.
You can do better than that.

lmao I was responding to Neph posting a different continuity's Maul striking at someone comically.

Originally posted by The Ellimist
lmao I was responding to Neph posting a different continuity's Maul striking at someone comically.
Yeah, that was pretty amusing.

Originally posted by The Ellimist
https://i.imgflip.com/1cexv9.gif

lmfao ok

Not that we're talking about canon Maul anyway.

Lol, did you go to that same thread?

I believe canon is still relevant to Legends last time I checked.

Originally posted by SunRazer
What was it on? Probably for the best anyway, given how shit the book was.

It had Carth in it, as I recall. I think it also had a bunch of info on what happened to the other characters.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Lol, did you go to that same thread?

I believe canon is still relevant to Legends last time I checked.

Not even close.

Originally posted by Haschwalth
2.If you want to go down that path, we simply haven't developed enough of an understanding, to assume Light speed is the limit. SW universe is beyond our level of understanding.


No, because hyperdrives are specifically mentioned as a form of FTL travel, which makes it clear that some form of relativity is still a thing. Combine that with the observation that things like electromagnetism, time dilation and other pieces of evidence for special relativity still apply and parsimony tells us there's still a light barrier.



That starfighters do in RotS doesn't mean that fleets in KotOR do, not when we see them not doing so.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Anytime people start throwing around terms like "faster than light" just remember:

https://media.giphy.com/media/ZT8hztpnWecQE/giphy.gif

Remember when Vitiate got nearly roasted and toasted by R2D2's retarded ancestor?

Originally posted by Nephthys
It had Carth in it, as I recall. I think it also had a bunch of info on what happened to the other characters.

Ah, so that's why the book doesn't even mention him.

Karpyshyn's a bloody idiot, lmao. And he can't write for shit either.

Originally posted by MythLord
Remember when Vitiate got nearly roasted and toasted by R2D2's retarded ancestor?

Originally posted by Haschwalth
Not even close.

Well regardless Azrongers quote is from a description of the fight from Attack of the Clones.

Originally posted by MythLord
Remember when Vitiate got nearly roasted and toasted by R2D2's retarded ancestor?

Hey man, **** you T3 is a badass. He was soloing HK's like it was nothing.

Originally posted by SunRazer
Ah, so that's why the book doesn't even mention him.

Karpyshyn's a bloody idiot, lmao. And he can't write for shit either.

He's useless for anything but video games, where the bar is lower and he can be propped up by the rest of the team. He's legitimately shit as a novelist. Remember how its accidentally implied that Bane possessed Zannah at the end and he had to hastily clarify that thats not what happened? Sloppy.

Originally posted by The Ellimist
No, because hyperdrives are specifically mentioned as a form of FTL travel, which makes it clear that some form of relativity is still a thing. Combine that with the observation that things like electromagnetism, time dilation and other pieces of evidence for special relativity still apply and parsimony tells us there's still a light barrier.



That starfighters do in RotS doesn't mean that fleets in KotOR do, not when we see them not doing so.

1. I'll concede that, but It's irrelevant because the ships are only moving 0.64c at max which is still in the relativistic pace. Not FTL.

2. they might as well not make star fighters if they can't keep up with the fleet lmfao, It's illogical to think that they can't match the same speeds as their main ships. Infact down right stupid from a tactical point of view. speed/mobility are key in battles, they will be utilizing it to the max.

@Nephtys, it's from a Non canon version of the Attack on clones, book.

Drew also screwed up Darth Bane from the EU. He appeared first in the comics shortly after Kaan's Brotherhood of Darkness was destroyed. And from that story it seemed Bane didn't plan to destroy the Brotherhood, but he just fled and then when the Brotherhood perished; Bane wished to create the Rule of Two.

Originally posted by Haschwalth
1. I'll concede that, but It's irrelevant because the ships are only moving 0.64c at max which is still in the relativistic pace. Not FTL.

2. they might as well not make star fighters if they can't keep up with the fleet lmfao, It's illogical to think that they can't match the same speeds as their main ships. Infact down right stupid from a tactical point of view. speed/mobility are key in battles, they will be utilizing it to the max.

1. That's not what I'm saying. I'm noting that having a "maximum speed" in this context makes no sense, and it makes even less sense to assume that any ships that have been fighting for a few minutes are moving at that pace, especially when it produces absurd conclusions.

2. ??? You flipped it.

Originally posted by Freedon Nadd
Drew also screwed up Darth Bane from the EU. He appeared first in the comics shortly after Kaan's Brotherhood of Darkness was destroyed. And from that story it seemed Bane didn't plan to destroy the Brotherhood, but he just fled and then when the Brotherhood perished; Bane wished to create the Rule of Two.

I actually prefer it that way. PoD is his only decent book imo.

Nah. In terms of character development it was good, true. But in terms of story, it didn't. It would have been better to see a Sith learning from the mistakes of an order, rather than outrightly "muhahahahaha, you're all weak!"

Originally posted by The Ellimist
1. That's not what I'm saying. I'm noting that having a "maximum speed" in this context makes no sense, and it makes even less sense to assume that any ships that have been fighting for a few minutes are moving at that pace, especially when it produces absurd conclusions.

2. ??? You flipped it.

1. How so? uh, it would be basic for one of those ships to hit relativistic speeds, considering those space fighters in ROTS hit it within a matter of seconds. Nothing is
absured about the movement, in these space battles, considering the battle field is millions of Miles in size.

2.What?

Originally posted by Nephthys
He's useless for anything but video games, where the bar is lower and he can be propped up by the rest of the team. He's legitimately shit as a novelist. Remember how its accidentally implied that Bane possessed Zannah at the end and he had to hastily clarify that thats not what happened? Sloppy.

What's he done in TOR that's any good? Seems like all of his SW work since KotOR has been dogshit with the exception of PoD.

Originally posted by Nephthys
I actually prefer it that way. PoD is his only decent book imo.

Indeed. The next two use recycled plots like Bond movies.

If Stover wrote Revan the Valkorite and Abeloth brigades would rule KMC and Ant would be sh*tposting on hangouts about how badly he's going to crush me on Revan vs. Zonama Sekot.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Hey man, **** you

https://youtu.be/oZ8990rMEdY?t=29

Originally posted by SunRazer
What's he done in TOR that's any good? Seems like all of his SW work since KotOR has been dogshit with the exception of PoD.



Indeed. The next two use recycled plots like Bond movies.

He did Jade Empire and Mass Effect 1 and 2. I'm actually not sure what he did in Swtor. I think he only joined the game around when KotFE was coming out though.

Originally posted by The Ellimist
If Stover wrote Revan the Valkorite and Abeloth brigades would rule KMC and Ant would be sh*tposting on hangouts about how badly he's going to crush me on Revan vs. Zonama Sekot.

Stover writing Revan would have been legendary.

Sorry, I mean LeGeNDary.

But no, I would have creamed in my pants if that happened.

Originally posted by Nephthys
He did Jade Empire and Mass Effect 1 and 2. I'm actually not sure what he did in Swtor. I think he only joined the game around when KotFE was coming out though.

I realise. That's why I mentioned SW. But I guess it probably is game-related.

As for SWTOR, I think he did something at the start involving Revan before he left? Probably the Revan flashpoints.

It would make sense for him to be behind that wet fart of a flashpoint.

Ah, right, he did work on that.

Also yeah, it's not too good. Still better than his atrocious novels, though.

Alexander Freed could've written the entire game(the original plan), but instead they went NJO/LOTF and hired a bunch of others who weren't even collectively as talented because they were rushing.

Originally posted by Nephthys
But no, I would have creamed in my pants if that happened.
I'd probably just outright die.

@Selenial

If I am not wrong, Hall Hood is the primary author of Jedi Knight story arc.

Drew Karpyshyn worked for SWTOR project but his contributions are limited.