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Upon asking about the claims made by Jolee Bindo, Drew clarified that Exar Kun is in fact more powerful than either Revan or Malak.

AP I really don't like the Malak>Kun shit either, but this is just reaching.

You're talking about Ant wanking KotOR. There's no limit to stretching.

Jolee Bindo and a Random Merchant, two people who have never met Malak or Prime Revan(one not even being Force Sensitive), or an out of universe source? Really makes you think. This one is actually well beyond pathetic. Even for you.

This is literally Drew confirming that their statements are accurate.

Don't come over here with your double-standard BS when Ant's been doing similar stuff for years.

First, that's not what the statement says, even if that's what he means. "Even more terrifying and dangerous," to "Keep the player's imagination alive," does not mean more powerful. And regardless of Drew's wishes, Chee is keeper of the holocron. Move on with life. Kun is below Malak, and no amount of hamster-wheel will change that.

In the very beginning he states that this was about how powerful characters were. In an answer to the question of what was meant by their statements. What he says is clear, far clearer than the ambiguous statement you and the others like to parade around as a clear objective fact to suit your wank agenda.

Literally everything buy a single interpretation of a web supplement is working against your hard shouldering. Your opinion is the outlier here. And no, screaming 'Leland Chee' incoherently won't do you any good when an actual statement from him about power levels contradicts the notion entirely.

Take the L.

Originally posted by AncientPower
In the very beginning he states that this was about how powerful characters were. In an answer to the question of what was meant by their statements. What he says is clear, far clearer than the ambiguous statement you and the others like to parade around as a clear objective fact to suit your wank agenda.

Literally everything buy a single interpretation of a web supplement is working against your hard shouldering. Your opinion is the outlier here. And no, screaming 'Leland Chee' incoherently won't do you any good when an actual statement from him about power levels contradicts the notion entirely.

Take the L.

Drew doesn't have the authority to make said statement. He is one of the many writers on KOTOR and does not have knowledge of LFL's plans. Not that you are even interpreting this right in the first place. And the statement in question is clearly referring power as confirmed by Herndon.

Originally posted by DarthSkywalker0
does not have knowledge of LFL's plans.

Implying Herndon does?

Originally posted by JMANGO
Implying Herndon does?

Completely irrelevant. Herndon is clarifying the meaning of what is on the page whereas Drew is making his own assumptions based on in-universe statements. And, yes Herndon has worked with Chee on multiple occasions.

Originally posted by DarthSkywalker0
Drew doesn't have the authority to make said statement. He is one of the many writers on KOTOR and does not have knowledge of LFL's plans. Not that you are even interpreting this right in the first place. And the statement in question is clearly referring power as confirmed by Herndon.

He has all the authority in the world on this matter, he used a world-building writing technique that confirms that Revan and Malak weren't as powerful, terrifying and dangerous as Exar Kun was. That's as clear as possible.

Herndon confirmed nothing but the fact that LFL reviewed the supplement and that he still thinks Malak wins in a fight against Exar Kun.

Herndon has no authority on any of the characters involved, Drew Karpyshyn as Lead Writer does. Tom Veitch and KJA do as well. Their affirmations are far more credible on these matters.

Originally posted by DarthSkywalker0
Completely irrelevant. Herndon is clarifying the meaning of what is on the page whereas Drew is making his own assumptions based on in-universe statements. And, yes Herndon has worked with Chee on multiple occasions.

The strikedthrough parts are irrelevant given that's not what I was asking about. Now regarding Herndon knowing LFL's plans and how it relates to the Malak > Kun quote. I have bad news for you, Leland specifically made it clear that LFL never expanded on a ranking of which characters are more powerful than others. So it's very very likely that the Malak > Kun quote came soley from the mind of Corey Herndon's as a way to promote material with Malak in it. I think I pointed out this quote to you before, here it is again :






- Leland Chee


I very much doubt that Chee had any hand in the Malak quote given his ethos regarding statements concerning power levels. And even if he did, he'd do with mind that it doesn't have to interpreted as an "absolute". To the contrary Kun is objectively much more powerful than Malak Star Forge or not. But i'd like Corey Herndon's analysis of why he thinks otherwise, and why his promotional blog to you must contain a factual comparison of the characters.

Imagine being Drew Karpyshyn. Imagine the feeling of depression and existential nihilism he experiences every time some nerd emails him with questions regarding a setting he was paid to write some stuff for over a decade ago and has almost certainly forgotten the majority of his thought process when writing it.

Imagine how few seconds he spends actually considering the question before throwing out whatever answer pops into his head first before he finishes taking a shit or eating his breakfast or any of the other myriad things that take precedence over talking about a universe that's been officially dead for almost 5 years.

Kill me.

Nah, author opinion really doesn't mean much of anything. Plus, Kun really isn't THAT impressive.

Why do you bother?

Originally posted by Tzeentch
Imagine being Drew Karpyshyn. Imagine the feeling of depression and existential nihilism he experiences every time some nerd emails him with questions regarding a setting he was paid to write some stuff for over a decade ago and has almost certainly forgotten the majority of his thought process when writing it.

Imagine how few seconds he spends actually considering the question before throwing out whatever answer pops into his head first before he finishes taking a shit or eating his breakfast or any of the other myriad things that take precedence over talking about a universe that's been officially dead for almost 5 years.

Kill me.

Originally posted by darthbane77
Nah, author opinion really doesn't mean much of anything. Plus, Kun really isn't THAT impressive.

He's clarifying the accuracy of statements made in KotOR.

Kun's incredibly impressive, he has a trove on insane feats and displays dominance over two eras full of powerhouses.

Originally posted by SunRazer
Why do you bother?

Given that the Malak wank is becoming ever stronger and any attempts at logic are shoved aside to benefit Revan wank, I see no reason not to go to exactly the same lengths Ant did to start all of this.

I don't recall any character in KoTOR suggesting that Exar Kun was more powerful than either Darth Revan or Darth Malak.

Theres a merchant on the Yavin station that says it.

Anyway, this is no more pathetic than Ant and cos usual shenanigans so unsure why theres so much backlash unless its just pure dislike for AP.

The correct answer imo is to ignore both suggestions and place these characters based on their actual showings and accolades.

@APOriginally posted by FreshestSlice
First, that's not what the statement says, even if that's what he means. "Even more terrifying and dangerous," to "Keep the player's imagination alive," does not mean more powerful. And regardless of Drew's wishes, Chee is keeper of the holocron. Move on with life. Kun is below Malak, and no amount of hamster-wheel will change that.

Originally posted by AncientPower
Upon asking about the claims made by Jolee Bindo, Drew clarified that Exar Kun is in fact more powerful than either Revan or Malak. Where is the actual screenshot of the quote where Jolee says this? I'm sure it exists, but...

Originally posted by Nephthys
Theres a merchant on the Yavin station that says it.

Anyway, this is no more pathetic than Ant and cos usual shenanigans so unsure why theres so much backlash unless its just pure dislike for AP.

The correct answer imo is to ignore both suggestions and place these characters based on their actual showings and accolades. Suvam Tan has never heard of Darth Malak when you first run into him. Considering he never met Malak after previously saying he never heard of him, I doubt he'd be a good judge.

I'd also like a screenshot of him saying that Kun is above Malak too if you would. Or a screen of his statement, whatever it entails.

Why the **** should I find it. Its on youtube, just go look for it yourself if you want to know.

He says something along the lines of the Exar Kun being 1337 and that none of the recent Sith compare to him. But said random, rodian merchant has never met any of the characters in question, and is, as I said, a random, rodian merchant. I mean, there could not possibly be more reaching than this.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Why the **** should I find it. Its on youtube, just go look for it yourself if you want to know. Because I can't find it yet obviously and I thought someone so familar with the quote would have quick access to it?

I was asking nicely, but I see you're just basing it off of what someone else said, not first hand experience. I will continue looking.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
He says something along the lines of the Exar Kun being 1337 and that none of the recent Sith compare to him. But said random, rodian merchant has never met any of the characters in question, and is, as I said, a random, rodian merchant. I mean, there could not possibly be more reaching than this. I already know the quote is junk as it comes from someone who never heard of Malak.

The issue is, I'm curious if the quote(s) actually exist. I'm not saying I'm an expert in finding things, but I can't find either from Jolee or Suvam. It doesn't help that youtube videos have people skipping dialogue as well.

So, in the meantime, I'm wondering if it wasn't just a rumor that spread and people accepted it because of all the branching dialogue, and then it became fact. Which if true, not only is the character not trustworthy already, but the quotes don't even exist and people are badgering a writer who doesn't even remember if he wrote it or not and trying to coerce an answer out of him to use it as proof against things we can easily find proof of.

Because that would be the ice cream, whipped cream, and cherry on top of an already pathetic reach cobbler pie.



But, I'm not taking any stances, which is why I'm asking for screenshots (or preferably video). Which I could if I felt like it then check out in game or try and find a video to see if the quote was from a modded file or not. I could actually have something to substantiate the claim. I probably wouldn't, but if the curiousity got to me, that is a path to take. I know all about people using rumors, lying, and photoshopping scans on this very site after all.

Well, Kun>Revan/Malak. You don't need someone to confirm it for you.

Originally posted by Freedon Nadd
Well, Kun>Revan/Malak. You don't need someone to confirm it for you. Good point, why would anyone need to see proof of claims?
From your sig, you see like a smart guy. I'm sure you'd realize what a few wild claims can lead to.
I like to see things with my own eyes before I start believing it though. I thought it was a simple ask tbh, but I get posts like this instead.

I found the quote though. It is definitive, but still from a guy who has only ever apparently met Exar Kun and only heard of "a sith lord" from smugglers. So yeah, back at the start. He does say he is far more powerful than any Sith Lord since, but he also hasn't left the station since either apparently.
I guess it's the Jolee quote now.

Originally posted by One Big Mob
Because I can't find it yet obviously and I thought someone so familar with the quote would have quick access to it?

I was asking nicely, but I see you're just basing it off of what someone else said, not first hand experience. I will continue looking. for what its worth- i looked and couldn't find any direct quotes either. now i have absolutely no interest in the discussion but i'd like to see those quotes also.

Originally posted by Mendax
for what its worth- i looked and couldn't find any direct quotes either. now i have absolutely no interest in the discussion but i'd like to see those quotes also. Yeah, I like to give a good effort before I ask for help, but I couldn't find it, so I figured I'd ask.
Then I encountered way too many lets plays of people not clicking to expand the Exar Kun dialogue, and it sucked.


Here's the Suvam Tan quote anyway. I think the Jolee quote is going to be incredibly hard to find unless someone already has it, but I'll look a little bit more.

https://imgur.com/UtAlDDf

You left out the part what his source is. Smugglers and trandoshans.

I don't know what Jolee quote AP is talking about, and I don't see it in the game's dialogue.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
You left out the part what his source is. Smugglers and trandoshans.

I don't know what Jolee quote AP is talking about, and I don't see it in the game's dialogue. yeah.

To be fair I did find some extra Exar Kun dialogue that wasn't in his dialogue (my source was from someone who just posted all his dialogue mind you), but I haven't found him actually saying Exar is above Malak. Here is the dialogue and he sarcastically remarks that everything is above Exar.

wl2ifpzVEgg




So it could exist, I just can't find it.

AP forgot the most important rule regarding quotes.

If it isn't shitting on Kun, nobody cares.

AP looking like Reed Richards with this one, lmao.

Nigga, Richards beat God Emperor Doom.

As bad as this is, it doesn't even make AP's best hits.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Nigga, Richards beat God Emperor Doom.

With a little help from my guy, though.

Seriously? There's a quote where he not only denounces that the Jedi Civil War and Malak are the most important threats ever, but this is coming from the mouth of the guy who fought Kun in the Kun War.

Yet none of this is really relevant, what Drew clarifies here is just as-if not more-relevant than what Cory Herndon wrote in his blog. Kreia never met the ancient Sith but we didn't mind using her authenticated statements through Avellone as a means of wank.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Theres a merchant on the Yavin station that says it.

Anyway, this is no more pathetic than Ant and cos usual shenanigans so unsure why theres so much backlash unless its just pure dislike for AP.

The correct answer imo is to ignore both suggestions and place these characters based on their actual showings and accolades.

They're pissed because they know without that quote their entire argument collapses.

Originally posted by AncientPower
Seriously? There's a quote where he not only denounces that the Jedi Civil War and Malak are the most important threats ever, but this is coming from the mouth of the guy who fought Kun in the Kun War.

Yet none of this is really relevant, what Drew clarifies here is just as-if not more-relevant than what Cory Herndon wrote in his blog. Kreia never met the ancient Sith but we didn't mind using her authenticated statements through Avellone as a means of wank.
Are we going to pretend Vitiate conquering the galaxy and consuming it is somehow less important than Exar Kun? Just concede, AP. He's saying everyone thinks their war is the most important, not legit comparing them. And no one is above Chee, so the argument was dead in the water. No one's really threatened by you. It's just extended laughing.

Originally posted by AncientPower
Seriously? There's a quote where he not only denounces that the Jedi Civil War and Malak are the most important threats ever, but this is coming from the mouth of the guy who fought Kun in the Kun War.

Yet none of this is really relevant, what Drew clarifies here is just as-if not more-relevant than what Cory Herndon wrote in his blog. Kreia never met the ancient Sith but we didn't mind using her authenticated statements through Avellone as a means of wank. Jolee is speaking about every threat from every time. He is making fun at the people who think everything that happens to them is the best. That's not a stance, that's just him hating the people who think like this. Almost a jab at the fans too.

You tricked Drew into trying to confirm things he never wrote because he hasn't written them for almost 2 decades and he just went along with it because he has no idea if he said it or not. Based on one actual quote from a DLC merchant with no force powers who has never met Malak and didn't even know his name.

It's a bit of a stretch imo. Even if the Jolee quote actually said what you think it does.

As I pointed out before, no character or in-game codex suggest Exar Kun > Darth Malak or Darth Revan. Not even that Rodian.

I am sorry AP but you need to be careful in your queries. Do not mislead authors.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Are we going to pretend Vitiate conquering the galaxy and consuming it is somehow less important than Exar Kun? Just concede, AP. He's saying everyone thinks their war is the most important, not legit comparing them. And no one is above Chee, so the argument was dead in the water. No one's really threatened by you. It's just extended laughing.

He's putting down Carth for making Malak and his Sith out to be the biggest threat they've faced. Yet he says that isn't true. He goes on to explain how big a threat Exar Kun was when you actually ask him about it.

Chee has been directly quoted as stating that he doesn't believe in quotes like that. Stop peddling his psuedo-involvement as some unassailable smoking gun.

Originally posted by AncientPower
He's putting down Carth for making Malak and his Sith out to be the biggest threat they've faced. Yet he says that isn't true. He goes on to explain how big a threat Exar Kun was when you actually ask him about it.

Chee has been directly quoted as stating that he doesn't believe in quotes like that. Stop peddling his psuedo-involvement as some unassailable smoking gun.

https://i.imgur.com/7HenyLi.png

"He put down this being the greatest threat, but he spoke of the war that got his wife killed. Clearly he thinks Exar Kun is the best ever."

He also spoke of how he had to leave civilized space because of how everyone felt about the Jedi. Speaking of a threat doesn't mean he thinks it's more powerful than another. He clearly thought Malak was a threat though, or else he wouldn't have helped. He just didn't like everyone thinking everything that happens to them is the worst

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
As I pointed out before, no character or in-game codex suggest Exar Kun > Darth Malak or Darth Revan. Not even that Rodian.

I am sorry AP but you need to be careful in your queries. Do not mislead authors.

Can I ask if you've even played KotOR? Savum Tan says that he was more powerful than any Sith since and goes on about how the ground shook as he walked by.

Originally posted by AncientPower
Can I ask if you've even played KotOR? Savum Tan says that he was more powerful than any Sith since and goes on about how the ground shook as he walked by.
Yes, I have played KoTOR.

Savum asserted that Exar Kun was stronger than any Sith but in further conversation he admitted that he did not knew about Darth Malak.

Originally posted by One Big Mob
Good point, why would anyone need to see proof of claims?
From your sig, you see like a smart guy. I'm sure you'd realize what a few wild claims can lead to.
I like to see things with my own eyes before I start believing it though. I thought it was a simple ask tbh, but I get posts like this instead.

I found the quote though. It is definitive, but still from a guy who has only ever apparently met Exar Kun and only heard of "a sith lord" from smugglers. So yeah, back at the start. He does say he is far more powerful than any Sith Lord since, but he also hasn't left the station since either apparently.
I guess it's the Jolee quote now.

Umm, what? I am not talking about characters' statements. It's pretty obvious that. Kun>Malak. That's it. Period. Whatever accolade claims that is stupid(is it the metallic jaw one?)

What has Malak done to put him on Kun's level?

Malak couldn't even drain those Jedi at once, he did it individually. Meanwhile Exar Kun drained 8000 Massassi at once.
And, please, don't insult me.

Originally posted by Freedon Nadd
Umm, what? I am not talking about characters' statements. It's pretty obvious that. Kun>Malak. That's it. Period. Whatever accolade claims that is stupid(is it the metallic jaw one?)

What has Malak done to put him on Kun's level?

Malak couldn't even drain those Jedi at once, he did it individually. Meanwhile Exar Kun drained 8000 Massassi at once.
And, please, don't insult me. So you think we shouldn't need to actually confirm statements in a thread based on the implications of those statements?

The issue isn't about who is better than who and how obvious it is. If that were, this thread would have been "Kun>Malak because he drained a bunch of Massassi at once". The issue is about proving that these statements actually exist. You can't just say anything under the guise of "He's better anyway so why does it matter?", that's not how things work. That's not what this thread is even based on either.

I thought the statements were made up and was wondering if anyone could show me them to hasten my search. When a writer gets tricked into answering something he's accused of writing well over a decade ago, that's kind of relevant. His opinion means a lot to AP because he's confirming or denying something he presumably wrote.
One was not made up, and one is a false dilemma. The question now becomes based on a non force sensitive Rodian that has only heard of Malak's work through smugglers and Trandoshans. Why did this question need to be asked?
And if neither of the statements existed, then the thread looks even more stretchy and reachey than ever thought possible.


My contention wasn't with Kun's power, it was the validity of the statements that this thread was based on. Like I said, you seem like a smart guy, you should be able to see my point now. Just because someone questions the existence of a feat or statement, that doesn't mean it effects their viewpoint of the character.

If someone started claiming Vader was directly stated to be more powerful than Vitiate, therefore he could beat Jolee Bindo, do you not think it'd be reasonable to ask to see the quote when your own search fails you? Or would you go into the thread and go "Why would you need to see the quote, it's obvious he can beat Jolee Bindo. He fought against Starkiller afterall!"

I'm not insulting you, I'm just saying, you seem like a smart guy. I didn't think I'd need to go in depth to explain my prior search for proof.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Are we going to pretend Vitiate conquering the galaxy and consuming it is somehow less important than Exar Kun? Just concede, AP. He's saying everyone thinks their war is the most important, not legit comparing them. And no one is above Chee, so the argument was dead in the water. No one's really threatened by you. It's just extended laughing.

To be honest, no one knew about Nathema.

Originally posted by One Big Mob
So you think we shouldn't need to actually confirm statements in a thread based on the implications of those statements?

The issue isn't about who is better than who and how obvious it is. If that were, this thread would have been "Kun>Malak because he drained a bunch of Massassi at once". The issue is about proving that these statements actually exist. You can't just say anything under the guise of "He's better anyway so why does it matter?", that's not how things work. That's not what this thread is even based on either.

I thought the statements were made up and was wondering if anyone could show me them to hasten my search. When a writer gets tricked into answering something he's accused of writing well over a decade ago, that's kind of relevant. His opinion means a lot to AP because he's confirming or denying something he presumably wrote.
One was not made up, and one is a false dilemma. The question now becomes based on a non force sensitive Rodian that has only heard of Malak's work through smugglers and Trandoshans. Why did this question need to be asked?
And if neither of the statements existed, then the thread looks even more stretchy and reachey than ever thought possible.


My contention wasn't with Kun's power, it was the validity of the statements that this thread was based on. Like I said, you seem like a smart guy, you should be able to see my point now. Just because someone questions the existence of a feat or statement, that doesn't mean it effects their viewpoint of the character.

If someone started claiming Vader was directly stated to be more powerful than Vitiate, therefore he could beat Jolee Bindo, do you not think it'd be reasonable to ask to see the quote when your own search fails you? Or would you go into the thread and go "Why would you need to see the quote, it's obvious he can beat Jolee Bindo. He fought against Starkiller afterall!"

I'm not insulting you, I'm just saying, you seem like a smart guy. I didn't think I'd need to go in depth to explain my prior search for proof.

Sorry, lmao. I thought you were Derron_solo(didn't look at your profile).
I see now.
But of course characters' opinions are irrelevant if they weren't there when the specific event happened.

Originally posted by Freedon Nadd
Sorry, lmao. I thought you were Derron_solo(didn't look at your profile).
I see now. Ouch. Right for the throat

Originally posted by Freedon Nadd
To be honest, no one knew about Nathema.
There was an entire conspiracy against the Emperor because people knew about Nathema. I bet Drew, the guy who wrote all these things, knew about it though, so why you made this pointless reply is really beyond me.

Isn't that when he was asked if Vitiate>Palpatine?

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
There was an entire conspiracy against the Emperor because people knew about Nathema. I bet Drew, the guy who wrote all these things, knew about it though, so why you made this pointless reply is really beyond me.

Thought you meant IU.

I haven't posted anything from Karpyshyn for years, nor have I contacted him since 2015.

It's squabbles like this that remind me of how epistemologically meaningless vs. debates are.

As is tugging one's cock, yet I'm drawn to it's pleasures everyday.

Originally posted by JMANGO
As is tugging one's cock, yet I'm drawn to it's pleasures everyday.

That may have been the single best retaliation I have ever come across in my life.

Originally posted by JMANGO
As is tugging one's cock, yet I'm drawn to it's pleasures everyday.

Azrong-azronger-azrongest