Donald Trump's brain drain

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The Ellimist
This is one of the most insidious ways Trump is crippling the United States. With the stricter immigration policies and the perception, right or wrong, of a more xenophobic administration, a lot of highly skilled foreign workers and academics that otherwise would come to the US are now staying at home or going elsewhere. Many Trump supporters support this because they think saving a few thousand of those jobs for American workers in the short term is worth massive losses in America's overall economic / innovative abilities on both an absolute and relative level.

Granted, Trump has expressed his intentions to make immigration more meritocratic, but it's unclear if he will actually structure it in such a way that the net amount of high-skilled workers increases.

But who needs any of that when you're bringing coal back, amirite?

Nibedicus
Isn't this like the reverse of a brain drain?

Basically, use the intellect within the US instead of taking away the smart people from other countries (especially 3rd world countries that need it more)?

Robtard
Originally posted by The Ellimist
This is one of the most insidious ways Trump is crippling the United States. With the stricter immigration policies and the perception, right or wrong, of a more xenophobic administration, a lot of highly skilled foreign workers and academics that otherwise would come to the US are now staying at home or going elsewhere. Many Trump supporters support this because they think saving a few thousand of those jobs for American workers in the short term is worth massive losses in America's overall economic / innovative abilities on both an absolute and relative level.

Granted, Trump has expressed his intentions to make immigration more meritocratic, but it's unclear if he will actually structure it in such a way that the net amount of high-skilled workers increases.

But who needs any of that when you're bringing coal back, amirite?

thumb up

Originally posted by Nibedicus
Isn't this like the reverse of a brain drain?

Basically, use the intellect within the US instead of taking away the smart people from other countries (especially 3rd world countries that need it more)?

Why not both though? It's not like a US genius in chemistry is being denied a job because an Indian (Dot not Feather) genius in the same field is being flown in to work at DuPont, top research firms and companies will absorb them both. IIRC, we lack these top-end people overall. Do correct me if I'm wrong here.

Surtur
As a country we need to look at our own education systems and ask ourselves why we apparently need to rely so much on smart people from other countries.

Putinbot1
I explained that in another thread. Interestingly 79 of the top 250 Universities in the world are in a Kingdom the size of one of your states.

Kurk
Originally posted by Surtur
As a country we need to look at our own education systems and ask ourselves why we apparently need to rely so much on smart people from other countries. Yes

Originally posted by Robtard
thumb up



Why not both though? It's not like a US genius in chemistry is being denied a job because an Indian (Dot not Feather) genius in the same field is being flown in to work at DuPont, top research firms and companies will absorb them both. IIRC, we lack these top-end people overall. Do correct me if I'm wrong here.
Lemme tell you B.S intro-level jobs in Chemistry do not f*cking exist anymore. You either need to have a phD in the field or some kick-ass connections.

We get enough overqualified H1B1's to do the intro level jobs now, leaving Kurk quite irritated. Same thing is happening to Comp Sci.

Surtur
We need to overhaul our education system.

Yet recently we had parents getting flat out arrested and dragged out of a school board meeting proposing charter schools. Let that sink in.

Robtard
Originally posted by Kurk
Yes


Lemme tell you B.S intro-level jobs in Chemistry do not f*cking exist anymore. You either need to have a phD in the field or some kick-ass connections.

We get enough overqualified H1B1's to do the intro level jobs now, leaving Kurk quite irritated. Same thing is happening to Comp Sci.

I wasn't referring to entry level jobs, as I don't think the OP/Ellimist was either. Top-level jobs and the brilliant minds to head them.

The Ellimist
@Surtur: I mean, why not do both? It would be weird for a corporation to refuse to try to recruit people because it thinks it can just improve its in-house training programs. They're not mutually exclusive, but getting the pick of billions is going to give you better odds than relying only on your native population.

DarthSkywalker0
51% of immigrants are on welfare, so at this point the benefits outweigh the costs and as mentioned Trump is trying to make immigration more meritocratic.

Flyattractor
Originally posted by Surtur
We need to overhaul our education system.

Yet recently we had parents getting flat out arrested and dragged out of a school board meeting proposing charter schools. Let that sink in.

We need to Burn out the Leftist Fascist from the U.S Educational System.

That is what is RUINING our Children's Future.

The Ellimist
Originally posted by DarthSkywalker0
51% of immigrants are on welfare, so at this point the benefits outweigh the costs and as mentioned Trump is trying to make immigration more meritocratic.

Having ten high-quality software engineers + 90 manual laborers on welfare = net positive.

It's not enough for the process to be meritocratic, it also has to allow enough people in. Meritocratically choosing 100 people probably isn't better than sort of meritocratically choosing 1000 unless if those 100 are astronomically better than the 1000.

Flyattractor
Originally posted by The Ellimist
Having ten high-quality software engineers + 90 manual laborers on welfare = net positive.

It's not enough for the process to be meritocratic, it also has to allow enough people in. Meritocratically choosing 100 people probably isn't better than sort of meritocratically choosing 1000 unless if those 100 are astronomically better than the 1000.

Well that is a big pile of spin.

The Ellimist
Your brain probably is pretty easy to spin given its tiny size, yeah

Flyattractor
Oh that Insult really hurt. Truly it did.


Happy Dance Happy Dance Happy Dance Happy Dance

JMANGO
Originally posted by The Ellimist
This is one of the most insidious ways Trump is crippling the United States. With the stricter immigration policies and the perception, right or wrong, of a more xenophobic administration, a lot of highly skilled foreign workers and academics that otherwise would come to the US are now staying at home or going elsewhere. Many Trump supporters support this because they think saving a few thousand of those jobs for American workers in the short term is worth massive losses in America's overall economic / innovative abilities on both an absolute and relative level.


... This is the exact opposite of what brain drain is.

The Ellimist
Originally posted by JMANGO
... This is the exact opposite of what brain drain is.

A lot of foreign students in the US who would otherwise stay here are moving elsewhere. Regardless of the semantics over whether that and potential future immigrants not coming is technically a brain drain or a reverse brain drain, the outcome is the same.

samhain
Originally posted by Robtard
(Dot not Feather)


laughing out loud

Putinbot1
Ellimist has a good point, a lot of research done at Universities is done by foreign students, MIT and Caltech attract the most brilliant minds worldwide, like one of my own Universities Kings College, University of London. The research they do draws corporate funding and the patented work and papers which often belong to the University, and the funders lead to Industry making money, the University making money and often a nation, and sometimes several countries making money. Brexit will almost certainly have a similar effect on UK research (it already has) to Trump. The thing is in Europe the UK stands alone as a University powerhouse. So when the UK fails the foreign students may go to China, I see the Chinese doing well out of this.

Nibedicus
Originally posted by Robtard
Why not both though? It's not like a US genius in chemistry is being denied a job because an Indian (Dot not Feather) genius in the same field is being flown in to work at DuPont, top research firms and companies will absorb them both. IIRC, we lack these top-end people overall. Do correct me if I'm wrong here.

I guess it can be, if you look at it another way.

But I think by definition, "brain drain" needs ppl to leave their native country to emigrate to another country due to better opportunities. At least that's what I know.

Wouldn't you need the job to be specifically suited to the individual for it to not be possible for another person to be able to do the job aside from said genius? I mean wouldn't there be quite a few suitably intelligent persons (less qualified, sure, but sufficiently qualified, tho) out there who compete over these top research positions?

I think the brain drain tends to be more due to the fact that ppl from less developed countries with sufficient qualification to do highly technical jobs tend to be cheaper (or have better work ethics and attitudes or willing to take higher risks) than the ones born in the first world. I don't think the brain drain is more in the top-top echelon intellects but moreso for the qualified upper percentile who are willing to do jobs that are essential (or very helpful) in their own countries but emigrate due to better opportunities elsewhere, particularly coming from the third worlds (a lot of medical professionals, engineers, architects, artists, software developers, etc. in my country tend to leave and go to the US due to the much higher wages there).

I mean, that's just coming from what's happening over here anyway.

Putinbot1
Originally posted by Nibedicus
I guess it can be, if you look at it another way.

But I think by definition, "brain drain" needs ppl to leave their native country to emigrate to another country due to better opportunities. At least that's what I know.

Wouldn't you need the job to be specifically suited to the individual for it to not be possible for another person to be able to do the job aside from said genius? I mean wouldn't there be quite a few suitably intelligent persons (less qualified, sure, but sufficiently qualified, tho) out there who compete over these top research positions?

I think the brain drain tends to be more due to the fact that ppl from less developed countries with sufficient qualification to do highly technical jobs tend to be cheaper (or have better work ethics and attitudes or willing to take higher risks) than the ones born in the first world. I don't think the brain drain is more in the top-top echelon intellects but moreso for the qualified upper percentile who are willing to do jobs that are essential (or very helpful) in their own countries but emigrate due to better opportunities elsewhere, particularly coming from the third worlds (a lot of medical professionals, engineers, architects, artists, software developers, etc. in my country tend to leave and go to the US due to the much higher wages there).

I mean, that's just coming from what's happening over here anyway. I pretty much agree, with this post although I have seen "brain drain" applied to the loss of foreign academics post brexit vote in the UK, so I have no problem with Ellimists definition.

Nibedicus
Originally posted by Putinbot1
I pretty much agree, with this post although I have seen "brain drain" applied to the loss of foreign academics post brexit vote in the UK, so I have no problem with Ellimists definition.

Well, it's how you look at it.

I guess the most accurate way to describe a "brain drain" is any condition wherein your country of origin suffers via the loss of qualified and intelligent individuals. Essentially, if it hurts us, it's bad (even if it's good for others).

Although I would always support be 100% supporting of my countrymen who leave their home to try and find a better life elsewhere. Even if it hurts our country to lose our intelligent/qualified individuals, they deserve to do to what is best for themselves and their families.

Putinbot1
Originally posted by Nibedicus
Well, it's how you look at it.

I guess the most accurate way to describe a "brain drain" is any condition wherein your country of origin suffers via the loss of qualified and intelligent individuals. Essentially, if it hurts us, it's bad (even if it's good for others).

Although I would always support be 100% supporting of my countrymen who leave their home to try and find a better life elsewhere. Even if it hurts our country to lose our intelligent/qualified individuals, they deserve to do to what is best for themselves and their families. I don't disagree with that either, and often it helps the Country, I know Egyptians in KSA who make money here to finance businesses back there that they couldn't with a local wage. One man I know now owns a factory and haulage firm. So, yeah I pretty much totally agree.

Kurk
Originally posted by Putinbot1
Ellimist has a good point, a lot of research done at Universities is done by foreign students, MIT and Caltech attract the most brilliant minds worldwide, like one of my own Universities Kings College, University of London. The research they do draws corporate funding and the patented work and papers which often belong to the University, and the funders lead to Industry making money, the University making money and often a nation, and sometimes several countries making money. Brexit will almost certainly have a similar effect on UK research (it already has) to Trump. The thing is in Europe the UK stands alone as a University powerhouse. So when the UK fails the foreign students may go to China, I see the Chinese doing well out of this. How can he have a good point if he's just some inexperienced 'kid' as you say? He can't be trusted. He needs to be 45 years old with cracking joins and a beer belly before he can make good points.

Putinbot1 #exposed

Putinbot1
Originally posted by Kurk
How can he have a good point if he's just some inexperienced 'kid' as you say? He can't be trusted. He needs to be 45 years old with cracking joins and a beer belly before he can make good points.

Putinbot1 #exposed "cracking joins", no hope for you kid. Sorry, I ruined you.

Flyattractor
Originally posted by Putinbot1
"cracking joins", no hope for you kid. Sorry, I ruined you.

Bet you have said that to quite a few "Boys" over the years...Aint ya Pooty!!!!!!!

Bet they weren't to pretty either....


roll eyes (sarcastic)

Putinbot1
Originally posted by Flyattractor
Bet you have said that to quite a few "Boys" over the years...Aint ya Pooty!!!!!!!

Bet they weren't to pretty either....


roll eyes (sarcastic) Ahh, the other one I ruined, I was surprised how easy it was to wreck you Fly. smile

Bashar Teg
one time i triggered fly so hard that he forgot to make his text green.

Kurk
Originally posted by Putinbot1
"cracking joins", no hope for you kid. Sorry, I ruined you. Oh I'm sorry. I should've known better to proof-read my post. It was my mistake in assuming that simple-minded people like yourself can comprehend what was meant to be said without assistance. I guess this is why you're unemployable as well. Nobody wants to hire a person who can't think for themself.

Putinbot1
Originally posted by Bashar Teg
one time i triggered fly so hard that he forgot to make his text green. haha, he and Kurk are at the following me around begging for attention stage. Ha, Fly even answered my welcome thread. I've so ruined them both.

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