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Azronger responded with a multi-page essay as usual but completely missed the point of Palpatine's struggle for survival during the course of Dark Empire as he ran out of clones to latch to and chose to hollow out Leia's newborn as his host per direction from Sith Spirits. I have provided direct evidence of the fact that Palpatine's spirit could not resist the pull of the void for indefinite period and could no do much in this form without external aid.

His counter-arguments for Valkorion's ability to cheat death are just as clumsy. He attributes Valkorion's innate ability to nexus environments and such.

I need able-bodied and sane-minded individuals to comment in my blog.

Don't worry, Xolthol got your back.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
I need able-bodied and sane-minded individuals to comment in my blog.

Arguing with Azronger about Sids is like pushing water uphill.

Also, where the hell did "Sheev" come from and why does it sound like venereal disease?

I mean Az's claims are full of inaccuracies, though.

Originally posted by Stealth Moose
Arguing with Azronger about Sids is like pushing water uphill.

Also, where the hell did "Sheev" come from and why does it sound like venereal disease? That's his Canon first name.

lmao

Originally posted by AncientPower
That's his Canon first name.

http://i.imgur.com/xhLD3Ou.gif

Az still thinks people love him. Which is sad.

Palpatine's essence vs. Jedi Empatojayus Brand

HAN: What is going on?

LUKE: The Emperor is free of his physical body! He's trying to take control of Anakin!

BRAND: (strained) Give me the boy.

LEIA: Brand...I thought you were...

BRAND: QUICKLY!!! I will shield him.

Sound: Leia hands Anakin to Brand. Palpatine's spirit lunges at Anakin once again, and Brand puts himself between the spirit and the child.

EMPEROR'S SPIRIT: (fighting with Brand's spirit) No! I will take the child. You are not strong enough to defy me!!!

BRAND: I will find the strength!

Sound: Brand and Palpatine's spirits wrestle furiously for control with the Force. Suddenly a victor emerges, and Brand falls to the floor clanking.

HAN: He's gone.

LEIA: What happened?

LUKE: Brand, are you...?

BRAND: I...have the Emperor. He is in me:

LUKE: Can you hold him?

BRAND: I...think so. I.... am dying, Luke, and the Emperor will die with me. He will never, ever return. Farewell, Luke Skywalker:

Sound: Brand's machinery stops making noises as he dies. Anakin starts to wail again.

LEIA: Anakin! Oh, Anakin, it's all right:

HAN: Brand saved him!

From Dark Empire III: Empire's End

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Palpatine's essence vs. Jedi Empatojayus Brand

HAN: What is going on?

LUKE: The Emperor is free of his physical body! He's trying to take control of Anakin!

BRAND: (strained) Give me the boy.

LEIA: Brand...I thought you were...

BRAND: QUICKLY!!! I will shield him.

Sound: Leia hands Anakin to Brand. Palpatine's spirit lunges at Anakin once again, and Brand puts himself between the spirit and the child.

EMPEROR'S SPIRIT: (fighting with Brand's spirit) No! I will take the child. You are not strong enough to defy me!!!

BRAND: I will find the strength!

Sound: Brand and Palpatine's spirits wrestle furiously for control with the Force. Suddenly a victor emerges, and Brand falls to the floor clanking.

HAN: He's gone.

LEIA: What happened?

LUKE: Brand, are you...?

BRAND: I...have the Emperor. He is in me:

LUKE: Can you hold him?

BRAND: I...think so. I.... am dying, Luke, and the Emperor will die with me. He will never, ever return. Farewell, Luke Skywalker:

Sound: Brand's machinery stops making noises as he dies. Anakin starts to wail again.

LEIA: Anakin! Oh, Anakin, it's all right:

HAN: Brand saved him!

From Dark Empire III: Empire's End

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FbTdLy3xO3E&t=11m35s

Pot calling the kettle black.

Legend is right. Give it up.

A Sith spirit is not supposed to exist and wander around because the pull of the VOID is continuous and overwhelming, unless it anchor itself to an object or an individual. Palpatine's essence wasn't an exception to this ground reality.

Palpatine's essence almost perished during the course of its journey to Byss:

He had never foreseen having to transport his spirit so far across space. He had nearly dispersed forever, but he had survived, and now need never fear death again. - The Dark Empire Sourcebook

- and, more importantly, a notable servant of Palpatine, the Force-sensitive Hand Jeng Droga, made the journey of Palpatine's essence to Byss possible because they shared an acute psychic connection with each other and Palpatine's essence was anchored to him:

Even as he perished, Palpatine used the dark side knowledge the Sith Lords had granted him earlier to rend space itself and transmigrate his essence across lightyears to Droga's body. The infusion of Palpatine's overwhelming dark side energies reduced Jeng to incoherent madness. Eventually, Palpatine's Grand Vizier was able to find Droga and tear the Emperor's essence from Droga's body. Once again, Droga had saved his master. - Star Wars Gamer 5: The Emperor's Pawns

In the absence of such external factors, Palpatine's essence would have perished. Not surprisingly, Palpatine was gravely concerned about loosing his last clone body:

"NO! NOT THAT ... YOUR SPIRITS GUIDED ME BACK TO THIS LIFE WHEN I WAS DESTROYED BY VADER ... AND BY HIS CHILDREN ... MY AGING CLONE BODY WILL SOON DIE. I NEED HEALING ... NOW." - Palpatine to unidentified Sith Spirit on Korriban (Dark Empire III: Empire's End)

Damn. Az, better retire.

I updated my blog: https://comicvine.gamespot.com/profile/s_w_legend/blog/cheating-corporeal-death-and-abilities-outside-a-c/126610/

---

Dry your tears Azronger! Your response only served to strengthen my assessment.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
I updated my blog: https://comicvine.gamespot.com/profile/s_w_legend/blog/cheating-corporeal-death-and-abilities-outside-a-c/126610/

---

Dry your tears Azronger! Your response only served to strengthen my assessment.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vj-5Syejsio

If I may throw in my opinion, Valkorion's power was not what gave him the ability to not be anchored to the netherworld of the force as a spirit. And all we see him do as a sith spirit shows he wasn't anchored, not that he was more powerful in the same situation of being anchored and hindered as palpatine was.
What gave him this unique power was his immortality . Now, we've seen several different ways people became immportal in the star wars universe.

Palpatine used essense transfer, krayt had dark transfer, plagueis had midi-chlorians manipulation, mother talzin bound herself to her physical body, nihilus to his clothes, other spirits to their graves, andeddu allowed his body to keep going for an indefenite amount of time, the list goes on.

Now, the way that Palpatine, Talzin, Nihilus, and the other sith spirits preserved their life, we see that their spirits had to be tied to the netherworld. But the way Andeddu, Krayt, Plagueis, and Valkorion preserved their life, their spirit was NOT anchored to the netherworld. This is simply because of the technique they used, not because they were more powerful.

Originally posted by Zentrex
If I may throw in my opinion, Valkorion's power was not what gave him the ability to not be anchored to the netherworld of the force as a spirit. And all we see him do as a sith spirit shows he wasn't anchored, not that he was more powerful in the same situation of being anchored and hindered as palpatine was.
What gave him this unique power was his immortality . Now, we've seen several different ways people became immportal in the star wars universe.

Palpatine used essense transfer, krayt had dark transfer, plagueis had midi-chlorians manipulation, mother talzin bound herself to her physical body, nihilus to his clothes, other spirits to their graves, andeddu allowed his body to keep going for an indefenite amount of time, the list goes on.

Now, the way that Palpatine, Talzin, Nihilus, and the other sith spirits preserved their life, we see that their spirits had to be tied to the netherworld. But the way Andeddu, Krayt, Plagueis, and Valkorion preserved their life, their spirit was NOT anchored to the netherworld. This is simply because of the technique they used, not because they were more powerful.
Sith Spirits are not anchored to the netherworld but to objects/artifacts imbued with dark side energy which enable them to counter pull of the Void and escape subsequent demise.

Netherworld represents heaven of the dead in the Star Wars mythology, therefore, Void is correct frame of reference in its place while discussing Sith spirits.

Sith spirits are not supposed to exist because they refuse to become one with the Force and resist pull of the Void through their anchorage to relevant objects/artifacts; in this manner, they are able to lurk in the physical realm and affect living beings who happen to cross their path or zone of influence.

Valkorion is unique for being able to manifest his powers outside a physical body and/or counter pull of the Void for indefinite period. One can give credit to his 'immortality' for attaining this kind of ability but this is a facet of his power.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Sith Spirits are not anchored to the netherworld but to objects/artifacts imbued with dark side energy which enable them to counter pull of the Void and escape subsequent demise.

I meant that they were pulled naturally to the void. Not all ways of preserving life have sith spirits being pulled into the void. The way Valkorion, Andeddu, and Plagueis prolonged their lives, they didn't have to worry about the void. This doesn't make them more powerful than Sidious.



My argument is that he wasn't fighting the pull of the void. It's not necessary that he was using essense transfer. Maybe he figured out a way to stay a spirit without having the void pull him. If so, he wouldn't be the first nor the last.

Originally posted by Zentrex
I meant that they were pulled naturally to the void. Not all ways of preserving life have sith spirits being pulled into the void. The way Valkorion, Andeddu, and Plagueis prolonged their lives, they didn't have to worry about the void. This doesn't make them more powerful than Sidious.
FYI:

Each dark side spirit has a focal point of power that anchors it in the physical world. For example, the interred Sith Lords of Korriban use their burial sarcophagi to hold their spirits for millennia after death. Freedon Nadd clung to his tomb for countless centuries, waiting for the right opportunity to turn his successor to the dark side. Exar Kun - who didn't technically die so much as merge with the dark side and retain his identity - resisted the dissolution of his spirit by drawing on the remarkable focusing energies of the Massassi temples on Yavin 4.

Taken from The Dark Side Sourcebook

Darth Andeddu's holocron preserved his spirit. This is how it escaped pull of the Void.

"You transferred your intellect to what we assumed was a holocron. It was more. It was a shell -- just as that moldering corpse is a shell." - Darth Wyyrlok III

Taken from: https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11111/111114474/6294966-1392117057- q90lsDuqPpxdTSNyti2YpEo9hdH7qF5L0Xc729uINDVfN0w8AD
YH91yt4c-7x7Mtn3jHUaQrgFw%3Ds1600

---

Darth Plagueis's spirit never materialized; he was striving for (corporeal) immortality through the route of midichlorian manipulation instead.

Originally posted by Zentrex
My argument is that he wasn't fighting the pull of the void. It's not necessary that he was using essense transfer. Maybe he figured out a way to stay a spirit without having the void pull him. If so, he wouldn't be the first nor the last.
As I pointed out earlier, Valkorion is unique in what he accomplished in the domain of immortality (and power).

The Emperor was no longer a member of the Sith species; his power and immortality had transformed him into a being unique in the galaxy.

Taken from Star Wars: The Old Republic: Revan

Valkorion's power and immortality are two sides of the same coin; intertwined facets that shaped his capabilities.

Member Azronger's response is filled with glaring misconceptions actually:-

1. Sith Spirits are not anchored to any world (strong in the Dark Side) such as Dromund Kaas, Yavin IV, Ziost and Korriban among others. They are anchored to objects/artifacts/tombs (focal points of dark side energy) but their spheres of influence are restricted accordingly.

Valkorion was not anchored to any object/artifact/tomb and his essence was able to teleport from one world to another (Dromund Kaas to Yavin IV; Yavin IV to Ziost; Ziost to Zakuul) and roam an entire world freely (Ziost).

There wasn't any need to highlight conditions of several worlds such as Dromund Kaas, Yavin IV, Ziost, Korriban, Zakuul and Odessen - a chunk of the response is useless.

2. In regard to discussion about the Outlander, member Azronger is playing with semantics and ignoring the bigger picture.

"A being of unfathomable power and insatiable appetite, he transcended death multiple times, shedding his physical shells as they were discovered, defeated, and destroyed... only to return in another form."

Taken from codex entry titled "Fall of Valkorion."

A single statement is never all-encompassing and binding; we have to concentrate on the bigger picture and piece together bits of information to achieve a higher understanding of theme.

Valkorion transcended death multiple times throughout the course of his existence and he didn't had to latch onto a living being nearby to cheat death in each case. Member Azronger is mistaking a 'plot device' for all-encompassing reality which is erroneous. He doesn't even know that Valkorion abandoned the Outlander for a while during the events of KoTFE and KoTET and he doesn't understand that Valkorion was 'manipulating' the Outlander into doing his bidding throughout - he doesn't play the game (it seems).

3. Loss of strength is expected in each episode of cheating death but Valkorion could rebuild his strength, even as a spirit, which is apparent from his exploits in Yavin IV and Ziost respectively. The blog assert that Valkorion's essence can manifest his powers outside a physical body which is absolutely correct.

4. Tionne Solusar is wrong in highlighting limitations of Sith Spirits in general? I don't get member Azronger's beef with the revelation. Yes! Even a scholar is fallible but this doesn't imply that we dismiss his/her observations without a valid reason.

5. Member Azronger is misinterpreting quotes about Palpatine as indicative of his power as a spirit which is not the case. My blog contains numerous quotes which highlight Palpatine's actions as a spirit and they are limited to Essence Transfer mostly. He also overlooked the part of Jeng Droga in making the journey of Palpatine's spirit to Byss possible after the Battle of Endor.

6. The Skywalkers disrupted Palpatine's hold over his Force Storm above Da Soocha V; the Force Storm became erratic and destroyed Palpatine's fleet consequently. However, Palpatine's spirit transmigrated to another cloned physical body on Byss.

"Finally, the Emperor was consumed by his hyperspace wormhole.

But a single clone had survived Luke Skywalker's attack. Emperor Palpatine revealed himself as two of his subordinates were displaying an alarming lack of loyalty and attempting to complete the destruction that Skywalker had not finished."

Taken from Dark Empire: Hand Book no. 3

In summary:

Palpatine's essence could not manifest his powers outside a physical body, and he needed a supply of clones to ensure his existence after loosing his original physical body in the Battle of Endor because his essence could not resist pull of the void for indefinite period. When supply of clones diminished, Palpatine visited Korriban to solicit help of Sith Spirits for preserving his last cloned physical body but they informed him to take Leia's infant body instead.

There is literally no comparison between the abilities of Valkorion and Palpatine, outside a physical body, respectively.

I think what Az tries to say is that a planet(Dark Side nexus) counts as an anchor point because it is a Dark Side nexus.
And this might make sense because Nadd was able to teleport from Dxun to Yavin 4. Unless I am wrong and he actually joined his essence with Exar Kun like Exar Kun did with Kyp Durron.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
FYI:

Each dark side spirit has a focal point of power that anchors it in the physical world. For example, the interred Sith Lords of Korriban use their burial sarcophagi to hold their spirits for millennia after death. Freedon Nadd clung to his tomb for countless centuries, waiting for the right opportunity to turn his successor to the dark side. Exar Kun - who didn't technically die so much as merge with the dark side and retain his identity - resisted the dissolution of his spirit by drawing on the remarkable focusing energies of the Massassi temples on Yavin 4.

Taken from The Dark Side Sourcebook

Darth Andeddu's holocron preserved his spirit. This is how it escaped pull of the Void.

"You transferred your intellect to what we assumed was a holocron. It was more. It was a shell -- just as that moldering corpse is a shell." - Darth Wyyrlok III

Taken from: https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11111/111114474/6294966-1392117057- q90lsDuqPpxdTSNyti2YpEo9hdH7qF5L0Xc729uINDVfN0w8AD
YH91yt4c-7x7Mtn3jHUaQrgFw%3Ds1600

---

Darth Plagueis's spirit never materialized; he was striving for (corporeal) immortality through the route of midichlorian manipulation instead.


As I pointed out earlier, Valkorion is unique in what he accomplished in the domain of immortality (and power).

The Emperor was no longer a member of the Sith species; his power and immortality had transformed him into a being unique in the galaxy.

Taken from Star Wars: The Old Republic: Revan

Valkorion's power and immortality are two sides of the same coin; intertwined facets that shaped his capabilities.

That quote at the beggining is from before Vitiate or Andeddu came about. The reason I mentioned Plagueis and Krayt is because their abilities are specifically stated to be able to defy the will of the Force, which makes me think that they their spirit from going into the void after death.
Andeddu did tie his spirit to his holocron, but the main way he stayed alive was similar to Mother Talzin's. He kept his BODY going after it died.
So it's not necesary that Vitiate managed to destroy his spirit's pull to the void because of power. He could have found a way to alter the will of the force.
And as for that quote about Vitiate's uniqueness, he was referring to not being a sith or dark jedi, but still being a darksider.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Member Azronger's response is filled with glaring misconceptions actually:-

1. Sith Spirits are not anchored to any world (strong in the Dark Side) such as Dromund Kaas, Yavin IV, Ziost and Korriban among others. They are anchored to objects/artifacts/tombs (focal points of dark side energy) but their spheres of influence are restricted accordingly.

Valkorion was not anchored to any object/artifact/tomb and his essence was able to teleport from one world to another (Dromund Kaas to Yavin IV; Yavin IV to Ziost; Ziost to Zakuul) and roam an entire world freely (Ziost).

There wasn't any need to highlight conditions of several worlds such as Dromund Kaas, Yavin IV, Ziost, Korriban, Zakuul and Odessen - a chunk of the response is useless.

2. In regard to discussion about the Outlander, member Azronger is playing with semantics and ignoring the bigger picture.

"A being of unfathomable power and insatiable appetite, he transcended death multiple times, shedding his physical shells as they were discovered, defeated, and destroyed... only to return in another form."

Taken from codex entry titled "Fall of Valkorion."

A single statement is never all-encompassing and binding; we have to concentrate on the bigger picture and piece together bits of information to achieve a higher understanding of theme.

Valkorion transcended death multiple times throughout the course of his existence and he didn't had to latch onto a living being nearby to cheat death in each case. Member Azronger is mistaking a 'plot device' for all-encompassing reality which is erroneous. He doesn't even know that Valkorion abandoned the Outlander for a while during the events of KoTFE and KoTET and he doesn't understand that Valkorion was 'manipulating' the Outlander into doing his bidding throughout - he doesn't play the game (it seems).

3. Loss of strength is expected in each episode of cheating death but Valkorion could rebuild his strength, even as a spirit, which is apparent from his exploits in Yavin IV and Ziost respectively. The blog assert that Valkorion's essence can manifest his powers outside a physical body which is absolutely correct.

4. Tionne Solusar is wrong in highlighting limitations of Sith Spirits in general? I don't get member Azronger's beef with the revelation. Yes! Even a scholar is fallible but this doesn't imply that we dismiss his/her observations without a valid reason.

5. Member Azronger is misinterpreting quotes about Palpatine as indicative of his power as a spirit which is not the case. My blog contains numerous quotes which highlight Palpatine's actions as a spirit and they are limited to Essence Transfer mostly. He also overlooked the part of Jeng Droga in making the journey of Palpatine's spirit to Byss possible after the Battle of Endor.

6. The Skywalkers disrupted Palpatine's hold over his Force Storm above Da Soocha V; the Force Storm became erratic and destroyed Palpatine's fleet consequently. However, Palpatine's spirit transmigrated to another cloned physical body on Byss.

"Finally, the Emperor was consumed by his hyperspace wormhole.

But a single clone had survived Luke Skywalker's attack. Emperor Palpatine revealed himself as two of his subordinates were displaying an alarming lack of loyalty and attempting to complete the destruction that Skywalker had not finished."

Taken from Dark Empire: Hand Book no. 3

In summary:

Palpatine's essence could not manifest his powers outside a physical body, and he needed a supply of clones to ensure his existence after loosing his original physical body in the Battle of Endor because his essence could not resist pull of the void for indefinite period. When supply of clones diminished, Palpatine visited Korriban to solicit help of Sith Spirits for preserving his last cloned physical body but they informed him to take Leia's infant body instead.

There is literally no comparison between the abilities of Valkorion and Palpatine, outside a physical body, respectively.

Jesus ****ing christ.

About the same reaction we have to your posts.

Originally posted by AncientPower
About the same reaction we have to your posts.

Azronger still does not get it that no one likes him.