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TWS Crossbones

Vs.

TDK Prime Batman

H2H only

Who wins

Baleman dies

Rumlow stomps

Wait, this is TWS Rumlow?

Baleman would beat his ass lmao.

He's stronger, faster, hits harder, and perhaps most importantly is clad in durable body armour as standard. Even without the suit he'd win though.

Baleman gets the crap beat out of him. Rumlow was fast and skilled enough to beat Cap to the punch twice.

Originally posted by FrothByte
Baleman gets the crap beat out of him. Rumlow was fast and skilled enough to beat Cap to the punch twice. Rumlow was fast and skilled enough to taze a visibly winding Cap who had already been tazed several times before while dual-wielding those tasers my man.

Given Baleman's own feats of speed, like this:

http://static3.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11123/111235159/5569502-m2gogqj+-+imgur.gif

Or this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZmdWPv5R_J8&feature=youtu.be&t=80

That's seventeen thugs (at least some armed) taken out in twenty one seconds by the way.

Along with Baleman's much greater feats of strength than anything Rumlow has, I have no trouble believing that he could replicate the "feat" of tasing an injured Cap twice and getting ragdolled immediately after.

But this is beside the point. This fight is hand to hand, and Rumlow has no feats of strength or striking force on par with Baleman.

Bats is a bullet dodger and a brick buster hes too much for Rumlow

Originally posted by FrothByte
Baleman gets the crap beat out of him. Rumlow was fast and skilled enough to beat Cap to the punch twice.

Wouldn't that be a low showing for Cap?

Baleman's melee skills

http://i.imgur.com/2hbiSYv.gif

http://i.imgur.com/LSNSWRT.gif

http://i.imgur.com/lIB45Ar.gif

Rumlow wins.

Originally posted by Silent Master
Baleman's melee skills

http://i.imgur.com/2hbiSYv.gif

http://i.imgur.com/LSNSWRT.gif

http://i.imgur.com/lIB45Ar.gif Good argument. Bateman stomps.

Originally posted by Silent Master
Baleman's melee skills

http://i.imgur.com/2hbiSYv.gif

http://i.imgur.com/LSNSWRT.gif

http://i.imgur.com/lIB45Ar.gif

bad choreography aside hes dominating those goons and although he lost to Bane in round 1 he came back and beat him all the same...just as many many movie protagonists have so whats your point??

Balean has plenty of feats that suggest he beats Rumlow easily:

- dodges bullets in a narrow corridor and get close enough to KO the gunmen
- strong enough to punch out a motorcycle visor
- strong enough to shatter brick with ease
- rookie Bruce beats up 6 guys with ease in prison
- KOs about 12 goons in BB in about 30 seconds
- bench press a very large supporting beam from a mansion which would weigh a few hundred pounds at least
- arm curl a 200lbs man one handed then basically pec dec'd same guy
- survive a three story fall onto a car while on fire and walks away
- not only survives but captures crane after plummeting feet first from several stories up onto the roof of a van with no injury
- heals from a broken back in a matter of months
- gets stabbed in one film, shot point blank in another in between his armour plating with no lasting effect
- survives a fall from a penthouse which is at least 15 stories up while protecting another person from harm all while his glider only opens halfway about a second before impact


whats Rumlows feats than can compare to Waaynes?? Ill give him one; he survived a building collapse but that doesnt mean he can beat Bats in a fist fight

There is no "bad choreography aside" fight choreography is what we base fighting skill on. if Baleman sucks that bad and is able to beat up thugs, that just means the thugs are even worse. not that Baleman is super-skilled.

Baleman has some great showings choreography wise.
In Batman begins he uses good skill and speed when fighting the ninjas, Raz, and those initial thugs.

People low ball by showing only the bad choreography scenes.

Originally posted by Silent Master
There is no "bad choreography aside" fight choreography is what we base fighting skill on. if Baleman sucks that bad and is able to beat up thugs, that just means the thugs are even worse. not that Baleman is super-skilled.

address the feats; whats Rumlow got to show against Batmans superior speed, strength and durability... even if we take the choreography at face value it doesnt matter if Bats doesnt fight gracefully if he hits like a truck now does it?

My comments are about Baleman's skill, if you have any examples to show that the above clips are not an accurate representation. feel free to post them.

Originally posted by Silent Master
There is no "bad choreography aside" fight choreography is what we base fighting skill on. No it's not. Baleman stomps.

Originally posted by NemeBro
No it's not. Baleman stomps.

Then what do we base skill on?

If he wins it won't be because of his skills, as Baleman's melee skills suck.

http://i.imgur.com/2hbiSYv.gif

http://i.imgur.com/LSNSWRT.gif

http://i.imgur.com/lIB45Ar.gif

Originally posted by Silent Master
If he wins it won't be because of his skills, as Baleman's melee skills suck.

http://i.imgur.com/2hbiSYv.gif

http://i.imgur.com/LSNSWRT.gif

http://i.imgur.com/lIB45Ar.gif

Originally posted by h1a8
Baleman has some great showings choreography wise.
In Batman begins he uses good skill and speed when fighting the ninjas, Raz, and those initial thugs.

People low ball by showing only the bad choreography scenes.

I like how h1 thinks his word means anything.

It's pretty easy to beat a bunch of thugs if they're simply standing there waiting for you to hit them and falling down without apparent reason.

Honestly I'd need to see Winter Soldier again, but I think it could go either way:

Rumlow:
+ Was a character in a movie that arguably has the best fight choreography of any MCU film with more up-tempo action scenes throughout.
+ Has experience fighting with and against Cap (even if it was a dogpile in the elevator).
+ Was winning the fight against Falcon until the Helicarrier crashed and Sam escaped.
- Doesn't he only have a plate carrier? The vest with armor plates in it? So exposed head no armor around the rest of his body.
- Limited fight feats from TWS only.

Baleman:
+ A plethora of feats when compared to Rumlow (yes even though some of them are garbage from Nolan's one known weak spot: fight choreography).
+ Strength advantage by a country mile on TWS Rumlow, relentless mentioned the feats in one of his posts above.
+ Head-to-toe body armor.
+ Durability to press on despite being struck by a falling wooden beam, stabbed by a knife in the arm, falling off 2-3 stories when tackling Harvey Dent, being ran into a parking garage concrete pillar whilst hanging on to the side of a van going probably 15-20 mph, and then jumping on and caving in the roof of that same van that had gone a couple levels in the garage.
+ Slight height and reach advantage (real-life Christian Bale vs real-life Frank Grillo).
- Some horrid fight choreography.
- Slower than Rumlow.

Really depends if Baleman can utilize his armor to take the brunt of Brock's hits and get in the shots to take him down. Baleman has the strength, striking power, durability, and gear advantages, but Rumlow has the mobility and quickness advantages.

Originally posted by FrothByte
It's pretty easy to beat a bunch of thugs if they're simply standing there waiting for you to hit them and falling down without apparent reason.

It's the speed in which he does it. I don't care if they were all punching bags, it's still highly impressive (especially given how hard it is to ko a human being in real life).

He has several fights with ninjas and Raz too.

Originally posted by John Murdoch
Honestly I'd need to see Winter Soldier again, but I think it could go either way:

Rumlow:
+ Was a character in a movie that arguably has the best fight choreography of any MCU film with more up-tempo action scenes throughout.
+ Has experience fighting with and against Cap (even if it was a dogpile in the elevator).
+ Was winning the fight against Falcon until the Helicarrier crashed and Sam escaped.
- Doesn't he only have a plate carrier? The vest with armor plates in it? So exposed head no armor around the rest of his body.
- Limited fight feats from TWS only.

Baleman:
+ A plethora of feats when compared to Rumlow (yes even though some of them are garbage from Nolan's one known weak spot: fight choreography).
+ Strength advantage by a country mile on TWS Rumlow, relentless mentioned the feats in one of his posts above.
+ Head-to-toe body armor.
+ Durability to press on despite being struck by a falling wooden beam, stabbed by a knife in the arm, falling off 2-3 stories when tackling Harvey Dent, being ran into a parking garage concrete pillar whilst hanging on to the side of a van going probably 15-20 mph, and then jumping on and caving in the roof of that same van that had gone a couple levels in the garage.
+ Slight height and reach advantage (real-life Christian Bale vs real-life Frank Grillo).
- Some horrid fight choreography.
- Slower than Rumlow.

Really depends if Baleman can utilize his armor to take the brunt of Brock's hits and get in the shots to take him down. Baleman has the strength, striking power, durability, and gear advantages, but Rumlow has the mobility and quickness advantages.

Yes it was some bad choreography scenes for Batman. But people forget there are some good ones too. Ones that display good speed, reflexes, and skill by Batman. Batman fights with the ninjas, Raz, and even the initial thugs were decent fights displaying such.

Originally posted by h1a8
Yes it was some bad choreography scenes for Batman. But people forget there are some good ones too. Ones that display good speed, reflexes, and skill by Batman. Batman fights with the ninjas, Raz, and even the initial thugs were decent fights displaying such.

Begins definitely was good in the training and especially the stealth and finale in the Gotham bottoms. Nolan was wise to use lots of quick cuts from the villains' viewpoints: it gave the audience perspective. Wow, this Batman really is a ninja that strikes quickly and goes back to the shadows. I felt Baleman was a force to be reckoned with in that film.

TDK and especially TDKR, though, went to much into Schumaker-ville when it showed the wider long take shots. The one shot in Trump tower at the end of TDK when Bats is throat-chopping one of the Joker's doctor-dressed goons is a good example, and plenty of the "I'm gonna hit you with my gun instead of shooting you to death" moments in TDKR.

And also Batman shouldn't have an issue with dogs whatsoever. The solo Batman film should have a scene where he tazes like 15 dogs at a time just to prove this point.

Originally posted by John Murdoch
Honestly I'd need to see Winter Soldier again, but I think it could go either way:

Rumlow:
+ Was a character in a movie that arguably has the best fight choreography of any MCU film with more up-tempo action scenes throughout.
+ Has experience fighting with and against Cap (even if it was a dogpile in the elevator).
+ Was winning the fight against Falcon until the Helicarrier crashed and Sam escaped.
- Doesn't he only have a plate carrier? The vest with armor plates in it? So exposed head no armor around the rest of his body.
- Limited fight feats from TWS only.

Baleman:
+ A plethora of feats when compared to Rumlow (yes even though some of them are garbage from Nolan's one known weak spot: fight choreography).
+ Strength advantage by a country mile on TWS Rumlow, relentless mentioned the feats in one of his posts above.
+ Head-to-toe body armor.
+ Durability to press on despite being struck by a falling wooden beam, stabbed by a knife in the arm, falling off 2-3 stories when tackling Harvey Dent, being ran into a parking garage concrete pillar whilst hanging on to the side of a van going probably 15-20 mph, and then jumping on and caving in the roof of that same van that had gone a couple levels in the garage.
+ Slight height and reach advantage (real-life Christian Bale vs real-life Frank Grillo).
- Some horrid fight choreography.
- Slower than Rumlow.

Really depends if Baleman can utilize his armor to take the brunt of Brock's hits and get in the shots to take him down. Baleman has the strength, striking power, durability, and gear advantages, but Rumlow has the mobility and quickness advantages.

Are we assuming this is a fully armored Batman fighting a completely unarmored Rumlow?

Originally posted by h1a8
It's the speed in which he does it. I don't care if they were all punching bags, it's still highly impressive (especially given how hard it is to ko a human being in real life).

He has several fights with ninjas and Raz too.

You only need one clean hit to knockout a person. If you watch youtube vids of boxers getting into street fights, they usually knockout their opponents in a split second. If all your opponent stand around and allow you to hit them then it doesn't really take much time to knock them out - especially if they voluntarily fall down for you.

So no, Batman wasn't exactly fast. In fact without the smoke and mirrors, he's one of the slowest h2h combatants we've seen in a cbm.

Originally posted by FrothByte
Are we assuming this is a fully armored Batman fighting a completely unarmored Rumlow?

I'm certainly assuming that, sir. Otherwise, Rumlow does hand Baleman another loss.

i see this thread will go on for 50 pages full of ignorance and stupidity


Rumlow isn;t going to have much a problem

Originally posted by FrothByte
Yes, I know what KO means. And no, it's not that hard to KO someone as long as:

1. You know how to throw a punch/kick
2. You're at least of average strength/size
3. Your opponent just stands there and allows you a clean hit

Notice how h1 bases his argument solely on the fact that he's seen a lot of fights? odd argument for someone that claims to have had such extensive training in martial arts.

Originally posted by Silent Master
Notice how h1 bases his argument solely on the fact that he's seen a lot of fights? odd argument for someone that claims to have had such extensive training in martial arts.

It's also weird how he needs to clarify what KO means. I mean, what else did he think it meant?

Originally posted by FrothByte
Yes, I know what KO means. And no, it's not that hard to KO someone as long as:

1. You know how to throw a punch/kick
2. You're at least of average strength/size
3. Your opponent just stands there and allows you a clean hit

If it isn't hard then explain why less than 10% of flush hits don't result in a ko?
And I'm speaking about professional fights.

Originally posted by h1a8
If it isn't hard then explain why less than 10% of flush hits don't result in a ko?
And I'm speaking about professional fights.

Because the person getting hit is actively trying to avoid getting hit. That's completely different from someone just standing still and allowing you to hit them.

You seriously can't be this stupid can you?

Originally posted by FrothByte
You seriously can't be this stupid can you?

You know the answer, we all do.

Originally posted by BruceSkywalker
i see this thread will go on for 50 pages full of ignorance and stupidity Why? You plan on posted for fifty pages?

Originally posted by John Murdoch
I'm certainly assuming that, sir. Otherwise, Rumlow does hand Baleman another loss. How would he do that when Baleman can leave Rumlow punch-drunk with one punch and eat punches from Rumlow?

The difference in physicality between the two is such that Baleman could literally push Rumlow to the ground, force his pants off, and rape him. Rumlow would be nearly powerless to stop it short of managing to grab hold of Baleman's balls and tear them off.

Oh, and Baleman is faster than Rumlow, unless you have something he did in TWS that says otherwise?

Originally posted by NemeBro
Why? You plan on posted for fifty pages?

damn straight i will lmfao

Originally posted by FrothByte
Because the person getting hit is actively trying to avoid getting hit. That's completely different from someone just standing still and allowing you to hit them.

You seriously can't be this stupid can you?
I think you are the stupid one here. You fail to comprehend English sentences. I used the term "flush hit".
Do you know the definition of a flush hit?
Most flush hits occur when the struck wasn't trying to avoid getting hit (they got caught). They did not see the strike coming.

Cite your source

Originally posted by h1a8
I think you are the stupid one here. You fail to comprehend English sentences. I used the term "flush hit".
Do you know the definition of a flush hit?
Most flush hits occur when the struck wasn't trying to avoid getting hit (they got caught). They did not see the strike coming.

That's not what flush hit means. Please cite your source.

Originally posted by FrothByte
That's not what flush hit means. Please cite your source.

I never gave the definition of a flush hit since I assumed you know what it means. I said Mostly occur when a fighter isn't actively trying to avoid getting hit.When a fighter is actively trying to avoid the strike then the strike doesn't land flush often.

In other words, you don't know what it means.

The Dark Knight takes this for god's sake!

Crossbow is too slow!

Who the hell is crossbow?

Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
The Dark Knight takes this for god's sake!

Crossbow is too slow!

edit: bones XD

Originally posted by h1a8
I never gave the definition of a flush hit since I assumed you know what it means. I said Mostly occur when a fighter isn't actively trying to avoid getting hit.When a fighter is actively trying to avoid the strike then the strike doesn't land flush often.

In short, your original statement doesn't really contradict what I said: That it's easy to knock someone out as long as they allow you to hit them and you know how to throw a punch.

Originally posted by Silent Master
http://i.imgur.com/2hbiSYv.gif I forgot to ask this earlier, but post the original video this gif is from for me, could you? I couldn't find it while looking for it a few days ago.

Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
The Dark Knight takes this for god's sake!

Crossbow is too slow!


yet he was able to punch cap...

Originally posted by BruceSkywalker
yet he was able to punch cap...

Even beat him to the punch twice.

He didn't punch Cap, he tasered him, once when Cap only had one usable hand, then twice in their exchange when a still holding back Cap was visibly winded and had already been tasered a two or three times in the group fight.

What are Rumlow's hand to hand feats in TWS? Having the advantage against Falcon I guess? What impressive physicals does he have? How hard can he hit? How fast is he? How is his chin?

He doesn't have nearly Batman's feats when it comes to this.

Originally posted by BruceSkywalker
yet he was able to punch cap...

He did. That doesnt put him on Cap's level however, nor makes him as fast as Cap.

The guy is good i agree.

Originally posted by NemeBro
, then twice in their exchange when a still holding back Cap was visibly winded and had already been tasered a two or three times in the group fight.

1. Prove that Cap was holding back.
2. Cap was breathing heavier but didn't look winded. Heavier breathing != winded
3. There's no indication that getting tasered slowed down Cap at all.

I agree that Rumlow doesn't have much feats, but at least he was able to land blows on a super soldier who was clearly fighting back. Baleman is so slow that he needs fodder to stand still and present him their cheeks in order for him to land hits.

Originally posted by FrothByte
1. Prove that Cap was holding back.

Rumlow isn't dead.

Cap can punch hard and fast enough to send Ultron flying into a concrete pillar, shattering one side of it on impact. He can punch hard enough to dent and damage Ironman's armour.

And you're going to sit here and imply that Cap wasn't holding back on the very human Rumlow, that the punches Cap was throwing were of sufficient velocity to perform the aforementioned feats?

Please.



wind1
wind/Submit
verb
past tense: winded; past participle: winded
1.
cause (someone) to have difficulty breathing because of exertion or a blow to the stomach.

If he's breathing more heavily, he's at least a little winded my friend. But I'll be fair and say that Rumlow was also winded.



Other than Cap having trouble with a normal human afterwards? How do skilled humans typically do against super soldiers in the MCU otherwise? How did Okele (who is a considerably more formidable combatant than Rumlow) do against Killmonger with an entire group of warriors supporting her?

More to the point, the electrical current of a taser disrupts voluntary controls of one's muscles. It is the purpose of the weapon, and even a small taser can incapacitate a normal human, much less a large one like what Cap was hit with two or three times. In the ship scene Rumlow uses it to immediately knock out a man with a quick poke that lasted a fraction of a second.

Why are you adamant that it wouldn't hurt Cap or hinder his abilities?



No, sorry friend, you don't get to pretend that Baleman's feats and accolades don't exist because of some bad choreography against mooks.

Baleman knocks Rumlow out.

With or without armour.

Originally posted by NemeBro
Rumlow isn't dead.

Cap can punch hard and fast enough to send Ultron flying into a concrete pillar, shattering one side of it on impact. He can punch hard enough to dent and damage Ironman's armour.

And you're going to sit here and imply that Cap wasn't holding back on the very human Rumlow, that the punches Cap was throwing were of sufficient velocity to perform the aforementioned feats?

Please.


Cap has never pulverized another human being with a single blow despite the fact that he has no qualms about knifing them in the back or shooting them down. Do you expect me to believe that he always holds back during his h2h fights despite being willing to kill them by other means? Sorry but that just doesn't make sense.

Originally posted by NemeBro

wind1
wind/Submit
verb
past tense: winded; past participle: winded
1.
cause (someone) to have difficulty breathing because of exertion or a blow to the stomach.

If he's breathing more heavily, he's at least a little winded my friend. But I'll be fair and say that Rumlow was also winded.



Other than Cap having trouble with a normal human afterwards? How do skilled humans typically do against super soldiers in the MCU otherwise? How did Okele (who is a considerably more formidable combatant than Rumlow) do against Killmonger with an entire group of warriors supporting her?

More to the point, the electrical current of a taser disrupts voluntary controls of one's muscles. It is the purpose of the weapon, and even a small taser can incapacitate a normal human, much less a large one like what Cap was hit with two or three times. In the ship scene Rumlow uses it to immediately knock out a man with a quick poke that lasted a fraction of a second.

Why are you adamant that it wouldn't hurt Cap or hinder his abilities?


Every single fighter on this planet will start breathing heavier after only a few seconds of decent fighting. That doesn't mean they are winded. Winded specifically means you are having trouble breathing. Breathing heavier doesn't automatically imply that, simply that your body is moving at an accelerated pace and needs more oxygen. There's a huge difference and Cap doesn't look winded in that scene, isn't even sweating. Yes, tazers hurt him a bit, doesn't mean he's suddenly slower than he should be. Nothing he does in that scene or afterwards indicates any degradation to his performance. If you want to claim such, then you have to provide proof instead of just your opinion. Cap is capable if taking multiple shots from IM and still continue fighting, there's no indication that a few hits from SHIELD agents and some tazing shots are enough to slow him down. In fact, he just proved that they don't.

Originally posted by NemeBro

No, sorry friend, you don't get to pretend that Baleman's feats and accolades don't exist because of some bad choreography against mooks.

Baleman knocks Rumlow out.

With or without armour.

Choreography is specifically what we use to analyze these fighters' skills, that's why we base our debates on feats SEEN in the movies. Bottom line is, Baleman is far slower than pretty much any decent MCU h2h fighter. He loses in an unarmored fight. Fully armored he might stand a chance, but Rumlow will still outpoint him. Whether that's enough for Rumlow to win will depend on how tough Baleman's armor is.

Originally posted by FrothByte
In short, your original statement doesn't really contradict what I said: That it's easy to knock someone out as long as they allow you to hit them and you know how to throw a punch.

No one wants to be hit. People are hit because they couldn't react fast enough or they did not see it coming.

Either way its hard to ko someone in both situations.
Hitting someone before they can react or hitting someone by surprise (same thing really).

Originally posted by FrothByte
1. Prove that Cap was holding back.
2. Cap was breathing heavier but didn't look winded. Heavier breathing != winded
3. There's no indication that getting tasered slowed down Cap at all.

I agree that Rumlow doesn't have much feats, but at least he was able to land blows on a super soldier who was clearly fighting back. Baleman is so slow that he needs fodder to stand still and present him their cheeks in order for him to land hits. Now you are lowballing. I gave scenes where Batman moved plenty fast and with great skill.

No one is just going to take the word of someone that lies as much as you do H1, you have to actually post the clips.

That was supposed to be an example of speed and great skill? it sucked. he was slow and barely moved. Beating up 4 people loses it's impressiveness if they suck that bad.

Originally posted by Silent Master
That was supposed to be an example of speed and great skill? it sucked. he was slow and barely moved. Beating up 4 people loses it's impressiveness if they suck that bad.
Lol.
I can say that flash and QS are slow. It doesn't mean a thing.

I think you are lying though.

Originally posted by h1a8
Lol.
I can say that flash and QS are slow. It doesn't mean a thing.

I think you are lying though.

If I'm lying, you'll have no problem getting other people to agree Baleman showed great skill in that scene.

Let me know when you have names of the people that agree with your stance.