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who wins

I would like to say Malgus, but only from a 51% chance.

Malak kek

Malak wins but considering the strike team required to bring Malgus down, the schizofrenic things Revan was dishing in SoR that I doubt he did against Malak, it should be reasonably close.

Malak.

It should be close if we're putting Foundry Revan above Redeemed Revan.

I wouldn't do that.

You don't need to put Foundry Revan above Redemeed Revan for the battle to be close. You need merely to have SoR Revan above Redemeed Revan and, considering what Revan did at the terrace, this obviously seems to be the case.

Why is SOR Revan > KOTOR Revan relevant to SF Malak vs Malgus?

Because strike teams.

What about them? Revan lost to a very specific 8 man team. Malgus lost to either one, two, three, or four people, and even in his best case scenario 3 of those fighters' identities are unknown.

nexus

Revan uses both sides of the force and there were plenty of Sith

I believe Malak would win, but not easily

Originally posted by The Ellimist
nexus

I like how Vader has a built-in amulet from Kaan stated to deepen his connection to the dark side, which means all of his feats were amped, and that Sheev's battles against Windu and Yoda both took place on a planet with a confirmed dark side nexus. But you all pretend neither of these things are true, yet as soon as you hear of a nexus in a TOR context you scream murder.

Malgus

Originally posted by AncientPower
I like how Vader has a built-in amulet from Kaan stated to deepen his connection to the dark side,

Yeah how powerful do you think Kaan really is?



Which source are you referring to?



Yavin IV's nexus is one of the strongest in the galaxy.

Which only becomes relevant if the force Revan's fighting is significantly hindered by the nexus, but most aren't.

Not to mention Revan's already suffered extreme injuries and loses in power going into the fight, and he uses light side energy also.

Originally posted by Jaggarath
Which only becomes relevant if the force Revan's fighting is significantly hindered by the nexus, but most aren't.


I'm unsure what you're saying here. I was responding to Skillz pointing out that the strike team had spirit revan's help.

-- which is a retarded argument.

A dark side nexus weakening Satele Shan's battle meditation (note Bastila Shan's greatest display of battle meditation is on the Star Forge) =/= Revan's spirit explicitly ("I am with you. Be strong." taking an active role to aid the coalition strike teams.

Not to mention the main reason Yavin was such a potent nexus in SOR was because of Tenebrae's presence

Originally posted by Jaggarath
A dark side nexus weakening Satele Shan's battle meditation (note Bastila Shan's greatest display of battle meditation is on the Star Forge)

Do you have evidence that Satele Shan's BM > the Yavin IV nexus that she considered incomprehensibly strong? If you have proof as you imply that her BM > Bastila's BM > Star Forge nexus > Yavin IV nexus, feel free to provide it.



Revan's spirit was so weak he couldn't even appear directly in front of dark! Revan until he had been defeated. It isn't obvious that his passive buffs and a one-time phoenix down if we take game mechanics literally would make him more powerful than Yavin IV's nexus. Would Satele Shan consider weak light! Revan who struggles to affect the physical world incomprehensibly strong as she does Yavin IV?

I'm saying only Satele Shan's battle meditation itself will be hindered by the Yavin 4 nexus.



I'm not sure what you're implying here, but spirit Revan obviously couldn't confront Revan directly because he'd be destroyed.



The two are so different in nature (active aid versus a passive decrease in one party member's powers) that I don't see how you can possibly compare them.

Originally posted by Jaggarath
I don't see how you can possibly compare them.

You have to judge which one outweighs the other on net if you want to scale Revan vs. the strike team on hypothetical even grounds.

Let's see:

NEXUS:
- Weakens Satele Shan's battle meditation

SPIRIT REVAN:
- An invisible force defending the coalition strike team

Okay, yeah, spirit Revan's benefits outweigh the nexus.

Not only that, but the nexus means almost nothing altogether.

Satele Shan just is only contributing +5 BM points instead of +10, but the +5 is noted to have an extreme effect anyway, "greatly increasing" the team.

Originally posted by Jaggarath
Let's see:

NEXUS:
- Weakens Satele Shan's battle meditation

Makes Revan himself far stronger, weakens all the light siders in the party, weakens spirit Revan.



Well you seem to be assuming that a weakened spirit who struggles to manifest physically is more important than a dampener on battle meditation (and everything else the nexus is doing). Why, aside from appealing to incredulity? A onetime resurrection is cool but not obviously better than a nexus on the other side.

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Revan uses both sides of the force (in SOR)

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ


Equally? Because if he's on a dark side nexus he'll probably use the dark side more...

After edit:

Originally posted by Jaggarath
Satele Shan just is only contributing +5 BM points instead of +10, but the +5 is noted to have an extreme effect anyway, "greatly increasing" the team.

There's no reason to think that this description is "greatly increasing" AFTER subtracting the nexus but rather as an independent buff that is also being hindered by the nexus, but that isn't necessarily the only thing the nexus is doing.

If we take his force Destruction seriously, then yes.

well is the initial blast itself necessarily both?

You're being hilariously misleading, but I guess that's not a surprise.

The only character that we can verifiably say was weakened is Satele Shan. However, given that Satele Shan is using battle meditation anyway, it doesn't matter. Despite the nexus, her battle meditation still "greatly increased" all the coalition strike team, meaning characters like Darth Marr were double-amped. Further, given the effects of battle meditation, Revan was likely negative effected by Shan's battle meditation as well.

Your claim that Revan benefits from the nexus is easily debatable, given Revan uses both sides of the Force equally to ragdoll the coalition strike team. Also, considering Revan's injuries just sustained from the Temple of Sacrifice fight, such as a one kilometer-destroying blast overloading inside of him and his Force essence being violently stripped, coupled with the potential negative effects of the battle meditation, it's likely Revan was operating at significantly less than normal if anything.



It's stating the battle meditation is "greatly increasing the combat effectiveness" of each party member as an active effect on each member. It clearly factors it in.



???

Also note that they were literally conducting targeted bombing runs on Revan while he was fighting the team, lmao.

i gtg though, be back later / tomorrow

Revan:
- Injuries from last fight
- Depleted Force reserves from last fight
- Weakened by battle meditation
- Bombing runs conducted against him
- Fighting people aided by a spirit
+ Dark side nexus that might not fully apply

Originally posted by Jaggarath
You're being hilariously misleading, but I guess that's not a surprise.

don't relapse bro



Ah yes, the Smuglander was unaffected



This doesn't counter my point at all. "Greatly increasing" =/= "increasing more than this external source is decreasing or increasing the other party"



Alright all trolling aside:

Nobody is forcing Revan to do that. Given that the dark side would be far stronger on Yavin IV, particularly where they are fighting, Revan is obviously going to use the dark side more frequently. You can point to ONE technique he uses that, if we take the gameplay mechanics literally, uses the light side, and then a bunch of stuff that is quite clearly of a dark side nature. If you wish to confine the part of the fight that is an unambiguous feat to unamped Revan to Revan being able to overpower Darth Marr, Lana Beniko and some non-Force sensitives using the light side, OK cool.

But the rest of everything Revan does in SoR is done on a nexus. It isn't just some sort of weaksauce troll nexus we use to say that Bane dies, it is a nexus Satele states to be "incomprehensibly" strong and wherein its power has been a plot point across multiple narratives (e.g. Exar Kun). Is this nexus more "powerful" than spirit Revan? What about strafing runs? Or Revan being injured by a backlash? We can't say for sure, but it doesn't strike me as implausible. Specifically all the claims about him being able to hold his body together (clearly a dark side power given light side Revan's monologues about it)* are suspect. Yes, this is off-topic, but you get the point.




* That's another key point here - the claim that the DS nexus is balanced out by {BM, etc.} only works in judging the fight as a whole, but not necessarily if you want to wank specific techniques Revan uses.

Malak wins but malgus makes him work for it.

Will respond in 2 hours, absolute garbage lmao

It's also very possible that nexuses benefit powerful Force users more than weaker ones, given that some sources note that you can actively tap into the nexus and that this takes some amount of effort/mastery. In that case, that some of the strike team were dark siders doesn't "cancel out" Revan's advantage (not that this would apply to very specific techniques of his that are supposed to be impressive on their own).

https://i.imgur.com/rtgnClR.png

Andy agreed Revan's stronger than the strike team despite his alleged nexus argument.

I still want to respond to his claim that Revan's other feats don't apply because of the nexus, but I might do that tomorrow night instead of tonight since its not as pressing and I have Calculus.

Originally posted by The Ellimist
Yeah how powerful do you think Kaan really is?
Kaan's power is irrelevant, the amulet's power is:



Originally posted by The Ellimist
Which source are you referring to?
https://i.imgur.com/9PjIJy2.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/ewqRBjX.jpg
- Force and Destiny: Nexus of Power

Ignore the messed up quote, it won't let me edit without losing the post.

Nobody studies for Calculus, Ant.