Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.

Philosophia will be repping a non-all-out, Byrne era Superman -- that is to say, Superman cannot enter his 'Doomsday-killing' mindset here. Damborgson will be repping Blue Marvel.
Battle will take place on The Sacred World of the Kai:https://i.imgur.com/tZ3n1Dn.jpg
*Assume the field is completely indestructible.
*NO BFR.
*NO sundipping or external amps of any kind.
*Victory by KO or death.


There will be a 3 post limit(1 opening post, 1 rebuttal post, and 1 closing post.)The match will begin Friday(10/12), and conclude Monday(10/15).

*The judges will be:
-CosmicComet
-deathslash
-xJLxKing
-Pr
-NemeBro



Good luck to both contestants!

Phil's OP:




Well, hello everybody.

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https://i.imgur.com/B7vfRWM.gif

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I will let the scan-dump for the following posts. But for now, an overview.

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This may sound weird to start with --- but what you're about to read here are two different topics, that are related, but nevertheless separate.

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Damborg doesn't know it yet, but by the end of this, he'll reluctantly agree.

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These two discussions will be:

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1. The fight what you vote on, based on us taking control of their abilities]

2. The comparison between the characters

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I'm taking this opportunity to have an extended discussion on the latter, because the former is, well, clear-cut.

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With that said, let's get this out of the way --

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The FIGHT

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At various points throughout this discussion, empathy will kick in for some of you is a nice dude]. Maybe you'll think of not taking the point I'm about to make as definitive, give him some rope.

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In the dying embers of it, even Damborg will think "I should have asked for the fight with it equalized..."

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But, the fact of the matter is...

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Superman wins, in a battlezone setting, every time. It may sound harsh, but there's no way to get around this.

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You'll have to excuse me for being predictable here, and just pointing out the elephant in the room, but, that "IT" is...

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SPEED -> Blue Marvel is a statue

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Superman's super-speed allows him to move with the utmost ease while time is suspended in a fraction of a nanosecond:

https://imgur.com/a/W8zLDZW

https://imgur.com/a/1c8pTn8

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I'm sure many of you already know what that entails but, to give you a perspective on what a nanosecond is (10^(-9) seconds, or 0.000000001s), here's a short explanation:

- something moving at the speed of light moves just 30 cm (1 foot) in a nanosecond. That's smaller than the distance between the tip of your elbow and the top of your index finger.

- A nanosecond is to one second as one second is to 31.7 years.

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And Superman was interacting in a suspended fraction of that.

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It's hard to wrap yourself around the fact that, while a second passes from a combatant's perspective, years pass from the other's.

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But...that's how this fight is. We're not in a comic book. We don't need to make it balanced. There's a reason superspeed is banned in most tourneys.

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Damborg doesn't get to do a single action. If I wanted to let him have one free shot, I would literally have to spend many years just staring at him, as the thought of his first action formed, and then another few years staring at him trying to put it in practice.

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Blue Marvel has nothing. Not in the way of "is his superspeed even approaching that astronomical level?". I mean that as in, it's in doubt he even has what you can call actual superspeed.

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This, for example, will be used as an argument, as it's the only one that even resembles super-speed.

https://imgur.com/a/2wEcgeM

https://imgur.com/a/EpfFmuZ

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He is blurry, while bullrushing through a portal a being that's not even looking at him, standing a few meters away, then punches him when he tries to get up. _

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Moving in a blurr is such low level of speed, that it's basically made for street levelers. Examples:

https://i.imgur.com/CJOtdJO.png ;

https://i.imgur.com/JeE33X6.png ;

https://i.imgur.com/RFFyDHb.png + https://i.imgur.com/wOA4Ts4.png ;

eeeeeeeetc.

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Make no mistake - the discussion here is not "Does Blue Marvel superspeed?". Maybe some of you see that as showing low-level superhuman speed. The correct question is "does Blue Marvel have superspeed feats on Superman's level, so as not to make him a statue?". And the answer, painfully clear, is not.

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It's a simple matter for Superman to put his lights out :

https://imgur.com/a/6QqQd1r

https://imgur.com/a/cjmPeXQ

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I can, of course, take my time. Time is literally what I have in spades, or decades if you will. Trashing him with my heat vision in all those nice, vulnerable places:

https://imgur.com/a/JHrA7Ig vastly weakened yet his HV still could have crippled Mongul]

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Like the eyes:

https://imgur.com/a/NXzgUu7

https://imgur.com/a/1Ajy9pi

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Speaking of which, this makes for a nice transition into..

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The COMPARISON

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What's the first thing that people associate with Byrne-era Superman? "The weak Superman". This is a common misconception and it couldn't be further from the truth.

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To understand this, there's a two key points:

1). Superman is a special case, in that he gets more powerful as time passes. He is split in periods of 'power boosts' , but the other heroes/villains have no such thing, generally. So when he fights, he does so not against, for example, 'Byrne era Orion'. He does so against Orion period.

2). Superman, even during this period, was the most powerful hero on Earth, and even during this period, he was getting powerful year by year. _

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To give you an example of how formidable Superman was, even then, compared to the rest, let's take a look at the Weird.

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He has faced a team of:

- Martian Manhunter https://imgur.com/a/fpJi2Ze https://imgur.com/a/ji6EwHv]

- Green Lantern https://imgur.com/a/5D3kreO https://imgur.com/a/Xo9lVbB]

- Doctor Fate and Captain Atom https://imgur.com/a/RCcg2E0 https://imgur.com/a/KBoE93M]

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As you can see, he one shot KOd all of them.

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Against Superman? Not so much.

https://imgur.com/a/vJPQHTL

https://imgur.com/a/8G5gXan

https://imgur.com/a/A0Eskw3

https://imgur.com/a/VHzKbqg

https://imgur.com/a/DEcpmr1

https://imgur.com/a/TlhWNoI

https://imgur.com/a/xmxeFOk

https://imgur.com/a/3uxZenk

https://imgur.com/a/7AAhnuf

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Or, better yet, let's take a look at Mon-El vs Superman, while Clark is literally suffocating:

https://imgur.com/a/zzZ3po0

https://imgur.com/a/Z9E1yr7

https://imgur.com/a/TMTmHng

https://imgur.com/a/XclaIDR

https://imgur.com/a/hCydyPp

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To give you an idea of Mon-El, he moves white dwarf stars between solar systems, and throws planets at Time Trapper:

https://imgur.com/a/ZZty3Ds

https://imgur.com/a/ob4vOxO

https://imgur.com/a/kl7EmYv

---

https://imgur.com/a/seO68ND

https://imgur.com/a/dQrhcDX

https://imgur.com/a/O1JjaKe

_

_

Now, I'll let my opponent post his initial post before fully diving into Blue Marvel's record, but, suffice to say...

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It will be found lacking.

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Let's rumble.

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Let the games begin!

Phil's Final Post:




- Finale -

The Fast and the Statue

https://i.imgur.com/od0lt6v.gif

All roads lead back to this.

But first..
Imagine posting these 2:
*Flying in a literal straight line up in the atmosphere
http://i.imgur.com/o2anHmZ.jpg]
*Flying to the moon in minutes
....and saying "Travel speed = reaction speed".
Then he tries again to steer towards "he fought characters with superspeed, so he has superspeed" by showing Sentry tackling him, start to punch and his punches, uh, being blocked.
This is legitimately what carver argues for Hulk. WWH vs Sentry, the exact same thing - only Hulk actually hit him in flight.
It's like we just started reading comics.

Cosmic awareness.
Damborg is trying to conflate cosmic awareness with superspeed - when it's anything but. These are two separate powers.
Cosmic Awareness is akin to telepathically communincating with the Universe:
https://imgur.com/a/mLuo5NI
"I am with with the Universe"
http://i.imgur.com/tSJB1V0.jpg
It's cheat codes for knowledge:
https://imgur.com/a/nVRFkO2
In his own words, what the machine that amped him did::
https://imgur.com/a/5LrJbAN
"PSIONIC RESONATOR to EXPAND my CONSCIOUSNESS"
In Blue Marvel's case, he used it have an overview of everything and see the fact that Eternity is in shackles screaming from the First Firament
https://imgur.com/a/y6CT4Xx
That's...it. Cosmic Awareness allowed him to literally "see the bigger picture".

---
Now..

Judges, I assume you've seen/been in some fights. Vizualize a fight where one of the fighters sees and moves just 20 times faster than the other.

Here's how a high speed punch that takes less than a second in normal time looks at 0.05x:

zWiQ3F282k4

This is how you see your opponent moving, while you are in normal time.

You could breakdance around Tyson in his prime.

80 times faster, and you could go to the bathroom and come back and he barely moves. (put on 0.25x to see)

Make it 1,000 times faster, and the opponent is frozen in time and doesn't even move.

Superman is on such an absurd level of speed, that his "video" is 0.000000001x . That is the speed where he sees even light in slow motion. I was going for overkill here, but it's not even needed. Superman could see the world in microseconds (1,000,000 times faster) and he'd still percieve Blue Marvel as a statue.

Clark was reacting in microseconds in college:
https://imgur.com/IyR6L1C

Not that it's anything special, but I always like this scene from that same college period where he takes on a whole army as an invisible force
https://imgur.com/a/MwGo1hQ

Just in case it needs to be said about Superman's flight speed - he travels light-years in moments (he was out of oxygen) to reach a solar-system at "speed that even gods would envy" in his first day in space:
https://imgur.com/a/ZDexPsL

Outraces New Gods Radion explosion from a standing position:
https://imgur.com/a/mU92xMp

Outruns energy attacks and blitzes energy beings:
https://imgur.com/a/V3ANlZs

Percieves and reacts in nanosecond increments:
https://imgur.com/a/q6wrVoI

etc.

Even in what could be considered a lower showing of speed - a marathon race with Flash around the Earth:
https://imgur.com/a/luIFCB7
1.Superman is equal to a Flash that throws "a few hundred thousand punches" in moments
2.They're running at several times the speed of sound, and accelerate further while exhausted crossing half the entire Atlantic in seconds . That's hundreds of times the speed of sound.
3.Also notice that they're zig-zagging, and not going in a straight line with obstacles, Mxy trying to rig the game

This fight is not even a matter of believing or not that Blue Marvel has superspeed. Even if you think has some measure of it , there's degrees to it. You can adjust either ends of the spectrum, but the difference is so large, that it doesn't end with anything other than him being a statue.

Blue Marvel will never connect. None of his attacks will even start.

To put it short, this is how Superman sees the fight:

https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11124/111241908/6416128-1575859998-ezgif.gif

With a totally different outcome

- Comparison -

The boy who cried wolf

Judges, you've seen him make numerous statements throughout this thread that don't hold up under scrutiny.

Don't hold the empty boasting as facts.

He hasn't read the issues, made obvious by the contextless scans he uses, and he's just repeating what DS has said here:
https://tinyurl.com/yckodrha

He doesn't have the showings to surpass, so he uses an imaginary average that he hopes you buy, due to preconcieved notion of Byrne-era Superman.

Byrne Supes has has one of the best records in fights of any character in any era.
I lol'd at "every single character he faces has been subtly boosted from the Byrne era as well." a.k.a. "believe my bullshit"
Do we have Byrne-era:
Captain Marvel?
Martian Manhunter?
Lobo?
Etrigan?
Maxima?
etc.
We don't. Because they're the same person, at the same powerlevel. Do they have more feats? Yes. But they have had NO CANON UPGRADE.

Damborg continues to misleaed about Anti-Man. The fight he posted? Notice in the first scan that the date is 1962? That's because the Anti-Man he beat is the original, unamped one. He dissipated in his fight with the Avengers because his molecular structure is unstable, and he was turning into a wormhole between the Negative Zone and normal one , not because he was weak:
https://imgur.com/a/PA1mJKq
He's talking about different versions of Anti-Man, and conflating them into one. It couldn't have been made more clear that in current day he was superior, and they needed weakness exploatation:
https://imgur.com/a/fSMZe7z
They wore him down using BM's plan, then Adam took him in the atmosphere and synced (for the 2nd time).

Damborg has two shield scans:
a). One is broken by King Hyperion in a single punch + HV combo.
b). The other, which takes considerable more time to make was against a depowered ghost/echo and he needed an amp THE MOMENT he started fighting back.
"But the creature that Blue Marvel trapped, is still universal."
I legitimately lol'd at him still going on about this. Judges, the scans have been posted. All this explicitly ghost/echo did in the entire story is get hurt by Black Panther's daggers and teleport once.

Superman's record:
- matched the Weird
- beaten Mon-El
- beaten Lobo repeatedly who has easily has the most absurd feats of strength and durability in comics during this same period he is fighting Superman
- KOd Maxima with a backhand
- KOd Etrigan https://imgur.com/a/H1nM1pg]
- pulverized Bizarro
- beaten Captain Marvel:
https://imgur.com/a/hwkv8RV
- KOs Mongul while weakened::
https://imgur.com/a/RoyuvLb
- treated the entire JLI team as fodder , Yellow Lantern Guy etc.]:
https://imgur.com/a/qlaRViE
- handled teams of heroes gang-pilling him without being hurt:
https://imgur.com/a/L5uKwll
Compare this to Blue Marvel getting damaged by Iron Man and Ares:
https://imgur.com/a/VxY3uKW

Superman that is trying to help and not fight getting downed by Barda's rod?. When he fights, Superman plows through Kalibak's rod and shatters it:
https://imgur.com/a/Rdc41wz
https://imgur.com/a/xHPi8Qu]

Just in case it's brought , Superman's heat vision can easily destroys anti-energy:
https://imgur.com/a/uIC08in

Orion! Surprisingly, there's CONTEXT!
Superman's powers don't function without his full active brain. So when he had amnesia in that story, he went from not being able to lift a rock, to once being told that he is the son of Darkseid, gaining super-strength and flight and engaging Orion, but he was never at his Superman powerlevel . He didn't even know his powers. He was brainwashed into thinking he is the "Son of Darkseid". Since it's at hand, Superman vs Darkseid https://imgur.com/a/a4lStHB

Blue Marvel's record:
- lost the 1st round to King Hyperion , then won the second
- losing to Sentry until he stopped, flash KOd him into the atmosphere, then Sentry came back and won
- won against ultimate Hulk in oe uppercut
- Had an inconclusive fight with main Hyperion
- Has a single panel where we see him and Pagan fight that we have zero context on.
- Was getting outmanuvered by Miss America:
https://imgur.com/a/GQGim72
The same Miss America who was getting outmanuvered by Ultimate Captain America:
https://imgur.com/a/EmYZeQJ
- Having problems with random Chitauri that Carol was handling:
https://imgur.com/a/Vkd562m

Hm.

----

Thanks for the match, Anny and thanks to the judges for the effort

*And that concludes this leg of the BZ. Judges, please PM your verdicts to me directly.


Closing the thread for now. I'll open it back up once I have the rulings.

**The Verdicts**







x1 Damborg

x3 Phil




The Winner: Phil




Fantastic work to all involved. This went ridiculously smooth on all ends.

Nice job fellas.

Thank you

Thanks Dmills