Darth Vader vs. Lady Sif

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carthage
Vader is composite with Canon/Legends feats

Sif has her sword

Who wins

deathslash
Vader stangles her to death like he does to any other brick.

Galan007
Vader.

It's spite, honestly... Though I'm curious if anyone is willing to make a case for Sif?

StiltmanFTW
Originally posted by Galan007
Vader.

It's spite, honestly... Though I'm curious if anyone is willing to make a case for Sif?

Even if we use her best feats like helping to KO the Thing or fighting giant monsters with ease, it can't hold a candle to Vader specified in the OP...

DarkSaint85
Vader throws his lightsaber and it skewers Lady Sif as she attempts to block it.

StiltmanFTW
What if she throws it first? Did you play M:AA? biscuits

Just kidding. She can't do shit here - composite Vader can choke the shit out of armored Rancors, has more than TK and TP at his disposal, received plenty of upgrades, can withstand lightsaber attacks to a degree (ok, Galan, it's debatable, don't start now) and is actually crazy fast when he wants to be.

victreebelvictr
Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
What if she throws it first? Did you play M:AA? biscuits

Just kidding. She can't do shit here - composite Vader can choke the shit out of armored Rancors, has more than TK and TP at his disposal, received plenty of upgrades, can withstand lightsaber attacks to a degree (ok, Galan, it's debatable, don't start now) and is actually crazy fast when he wants to be. Vader would be screwed if it weren't for Force Speed. laughing

StiltmanFTW
Originally posted by victreebelvictr
Vader would be screwed if it weren't for Force Speed. laughing

Not necessarily.

You see, he excels at Force Grip, even at vast distances.

Fight on this particular forum starts at 0.5 km ----- even if she chucks her sword at him, he has plenty of time to dodge/deflect it (w/o Force speed) and can start choking/immobilizing her before she even makes her first move, anyway.

victreebelvictr
Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Not necessarily.

You see, he excels at Force Grip, even at vast distances.

Fight on this particular forum starts at 0.5 km ----- even if she chucks her sword at him, he has plenty of time to dodge/deflect it (w/o Force speed) and can start choking/immobilizing her before she even makes her first move, anyway. I meant overall.

Well, at least in Lightsaber dueling.

StiltmanFTW
Originally posted by victreebelvictr
I meant overall.

Well, at least in Lightsaber dueling.

Sif's Asgardian physicals can be easily matched (if not surpassed) by Vader's Force amping and cybernetics.

Skill? No, I don't see Sif as more skilled.

Fact is, she barely had any good feats in 54 years (!!!)... whereas Vader had a shitload. Especially the version we use in this thread.

DarkSaint85
Yeah. Force users - especially at that level - are OP at the meta level. Would they be heralds? I think they can take quite a few of the low herald tier.

Galan007
I could see a few of the more powerful force-users being in the low-herald tier, yeah.

cdtm
Originally posted by victreebelvictr
Vader would be screwed if it weren't for Force Speed. laughing

Nah, Sif isn't the Iron Fist.

cdtm
Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
What if she throws it first? Did you play M:AA? biscuits

Just kidding. She can't do shit here - composite Vader can choke the shit out of armored Rancors, has more than TK and TP at his disposal, received plenty of upgrades, can withstand lightsaber attacks to a degree (ok, Galan, it's debatable, don't start now) and is actually crazy fast when he wants to be.

Armor actually blocked Force grip.

Besides, I bet a good brick is more durable then any rancor or armor.

cdtm
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Yeah. Force users - especially at that level - are OP at the meta level. Would they be heralds? I think they can take quite a few of the low herald tier.

What kind of feats suggest low herald stomping?

-K-M-
Sif stomps. Much faster, stronger and way more experience. Overall just a better character too

I kid. But how long do you think it will take Galan to blow a blood vessel after reading that?

victreebelvictr
Originally posted by -K-M-
Sif stomps. Much faster, stronger and way more experience



How long do you think it will take Galan to blow a blood vessel reading that? Explain how she is faster please.

And stronger...

And more experienced...

-K-M-

cdtm
I'm going to make a guess Vader is considered op because:

Force storms or some equivalent.

Something to do with star fighters.

Something to do with pulling warships out of the sky.

Something something Force choke something something.




Never mind the fact Luke Cage overpowered the jaw of a kaiju MUCH larger then an armored rancor (Thing looked like a mountain to me), or that plenty of characters have planet wide ranging feats, and still aren't stomping heralds left and right..

Hell, my boy Iron Fist has a few good feats up there with Doctor Strange fighting Dormmamu. Full on soul reaping, universe ending cosmic beings getting Fisted.

StiltmanFTW
Originally posted by cdtm
Armor actually blocked Force grip.

Only initially, iirc?

Originally posted by cdtm
Besides, I bet a good brick is more durable then any rancor or armor.

Sif can't be considered a good brick.

DarkSaint85
You forget the precog, the speedster reactions, the one shot kill lightsaber...

Oh and the Force Choke across the galaxy.

cdtm
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
You forget the precog, the speedster reactions, the one shot kill lightsaber...

Oh and the Force Choke across the galaxy.

If that's not a one off, you've got a good case. If not, a one off is a one off.

As for the other stuff, Iron Fist has speedster reactions, pre-cog, and a one shot kill Iron Fist.

My point, of course, is that I completely agree Vader crush's heralds, as I'm certain you'll agree Iron Fist crush's heralds. thumb up

StiltmanFTW
Iron Fist is not in this thread and he, same as Vader, could solo thousands of Whore Sifs.

So why you mention him again?

cdtm
Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Iron Fist is not in this thread and he, same as Vader, could solo thousands of Whore Sifs.

So why you mention him again?

I'm mentioning him, to show many of the arguments in favor of Vader, can be applied to characters that don't get Vaders pr department. Characters many may argue lose to four members of the Bat family, without prep.


Like my response to Darksaint just now.

DarkSaint85
When Iron Fist can one shot kill people across wide distances, without even seeing them, then sure why not.

But he can't. So nope.

Many of the arguments, sure. Not all. So not applicable.

cdtm
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
When Iron Fist can one shot kill people across wide distances, without even seeing them, then sure why not.

But he can't. So nope.

Many of the arguments, sure. Not all. So not applicable.

So far, the galaxy wide force choke is the ONLY thing. And that proves range, not power.

And the combatants aren't at Galaxy range (Also, took me a minute to realize you were probably talking about the famous ESB scene. smile )

As I already mentioned, Darth Vader did try choking out an armored Rancor. And he failed.

The armor stopped his choke from working.

Sif is pretty durable.

DarkSaint85
The ship armour didn't stop him from choking this guy...

https://i.imgur.com/vDF7hBK_d.jpg

StiltmanFTW
@DS85

Do you have that Rancor scan on hand, maybe?

Cd wanted to refute it.

DarkSaint85
Originally posted by cdtm
So far, the galaxy wide force choke is the ONLY thing. And that proves range, not power.

And the combatants aren't at Galaxy range (Also, took me a minute to realize you were probably talking about the famous ESB scene. smile )

As I already mentioned, Darth Vader did try choking out an armored Rancor. And he failed.

The armor stopped his choke from working.

Sif is pretty durable.

Having a one shot kill power with insane range and no limits targeting is pretty....yeah lol. Imagine I made a character who could instantaneously attack someone across a huge range, no targeting (even Prof X needs to find someone first lol)..

And you rely on a low showing, lol. Considering Invisible Woman is able to stalemate Danny Rand etc....I mean, shall I play the same game?

cdtm
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
The ship armour didn't stop him from choking this guy...

https://i.imgur.com/vDF7hBK_d.jpg

I can't make it out.

But the implication wasn't that the armor blocked the force itself. It blocked the choke.

Reinforced it's throat, so Vader couldn't constrict the trachia. The mad scientist was well aware of Vader's abilities, so probably lined the things throat inside and out, like a cyborg.


And again, Sif's pretty durable.

cdtm
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Having a one shot kill power with insane range and no limits targeting is pretty....yeah lol. Imagine I made a character who could instantaneously attack someone across a huge range, no targeting (even Prof X needs to find someone first lol)..

And you rely on a low showing, lol. Considering Invisible Woman is able to stalemate Danny Rand etc....I mean, shall I play the same game?

It's hard to rely on high feats, when no one's really referenced any. sad

I mean, I'd "like" to see this monster Vader for myself. Considering I've posted multiple scans over the years of my favorites, only for them to be ignored or lowballed, it would be nice to be on the other side for a change (I'd probably be more then fair about it, since we're not talking about Carver or Dragon Ball.)

DarkSaint85
Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
@DS85

Do you have that Rancor scan on hand, maybe?

Cd wanted to refute it.

https://i.postimg.cc/CLmwGJjM/darth-vader-vs-a-cyborg-rancor-3.png


Something to note: the rancor was being controlled remotely:

https://i.postimg.cc/gjKmBHQD/darth-vader-vs-a-cyborg-rancor-4.png

Galan007
The Rancor had a plate reinforced thorax that was able to prevent an initial force-choke attempt from Vader. We have absolutely NO idea what that "plate" was comprised of, however, nor if it could have withstood another attempt. It's also ONE showing that does not outweigh all of Vader's other showings.

However, when feats like this exist:
https://s7d8.turboimg.net/t1/39665926_fzpJ7N3.jpg

...I'm not even sure what argument can possibly be made for Sif. Vader could just disintegrate her with a gesture, ffs.

DarkSaint85
Or not even a gesture...

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/11115/111155790/4446103-8681521860-019.j.jpg

DarkSaint85
Remember in Empire Strikes Back, the AT-ATs were too durable to take down with the snowspeeders?

http://i.imgur.com/9mtIaV8.jpg

But yeah, that one showing of a single attempt from Vader, against a specially prepped drone with no details, means everything....

Galan007
And if push comes to shove, he has a ridiculous fastball as well:

http://i.imgur.com/ywBuCTYh.jpg

StiltmanFTW
Sif's neck is protected only on the outside (if she remembers to wear her full armor... other times it's just exposed) and she doesn't benefit from the alien physiology.

DarkSaint85
She's Asgardian right? So a bit more durable than normal humans, but that's it. Wasn't Taskmaster soloing shit loads of them lol.

deathslash
Originally posted by cdtm
I'm going to make a guess Vader is considered op because:

Force storms or some equivalent.

Something to do with star fighters.

Something to do with pulling warships out of the sky.

Something something Force choke something something.




Never mind the fact Luke Cage overpowered the jaw of a kaiju MUCH larger then an armored rancor (Thing looked like a mountain to me), or that plenty of characters have planet wide ranging feats, and still aren't stomping heralds left and right..

Hell, my boy Iron Fist has a few good feats up there with Doctor Strange fighting Dormmamu. Full on soul reaping, universe ending cosmic beings getting Fisted. your bias and overall lack of understanding are showing.

1. Casually lifting two AT-ATs is a multi ton feat. Casually stopping the movements of an AT-St is a multi ton feat. Casually ragdolling someone that could direct the fall of a star destroyer is a multi ton feat. Using tk to tank a weapon facility going nuclear is a muti ton feat.

2. He was explicitly said to be close to the level of someone that could choke people from half a galaxy away, break into alternate dimensions using only his skill, and could literally tear the very fabric of time and space itself apart.

3. Where does physical strwngth even matter? It's not like Luke or Danny or anyone else can flex their heart when it's being crushed. Even one of the most durable characters in comics (superman) has had parts of his brain successfully crushed by tk.

The fact that you try to hand wave away feats like this is really telling.

StiltmanFTW
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
She's Asgardian right? So a bit more durable than normal humans, but that's it. Wasn't Taskmaster soloing shit loads of them lol.

Taskmaster actually fought Fandral and Hogun and was in a good enough shape to face Steve (who quickly retreated) and Bucky afterwards.

Bullseye and Daken raped a lot of them, too.

Poor Mister X was happy with just one kill sad

Galan007
Vader actually did force-choke Xizor from half the galaxy away in Legends(Xizor was on Tatooine and Vader was near Coruscant.) He also recently hurled an AT-ST across the battlefield like it was a weightless trinket in canon.

...On top of everything else already mentioned.

StiltmanFTW
Yeah, I knew you'd mention that feat.

Nothing stops Vader from using Force grip here. And Sif's only ranged attack is the sword throw --- at 0.5 km distance, Vader can easily handle it. Any Vader.

And which one we're supposed to use here? Oh, right...

Originally posted by carthage
Vader is composite with Canon/Legends feats

zopzop
Here comes Zop to play Devil's Advocate in favor of Sif :
A) Force choke isn't a guaranteed win. (Asgardians have been shown not needing air to survive)
B) Asgardian physiology isn't the same as a mortal beings. (Rage had some scans stating this)
C) She's a War Goddess with hundreds of years of practice.
D) She's among the stronger Asgardian females physically. (handbook says something like 35 tons minimum)

So he's not force choking or manhandling her easily (if at all) and she's definitely strong enough to destroy him when it gets up close and physical.

StiltmanFTW
Originally posted by zopzop
Here comes Zop to play Devil's Advocate in favor of Sif :

Good luck, you're gonna need it big grin

Originally posted by zopzop
A) Force choke isn't a guaranteed win. (Asgardians have been shown not needing air to survive)

Any examples?

Aside from Odinforce Thor, I mean.

Galan007
Originally posted by zopzop
So he's not force choking or manhandling her easily (if at all) Based on?

zopzop
Originally posted by Galan007
Based on?
Based on the fact that she's a centuries old immortal magical brick (more or less).

Galan007
Let me ask this a different way...

What showings does she have that make you think she'd be resistant/immune to Vader's TK? Not saying you're wrong; I'm just legitimately curious if there's anything at all...

zopzop
Originally posted by Galan007
Let me ask this a different way...

What showings does she have that make you think she'd be resistant/immune to Vader's TK?
She won't be immune to it. She can definitely resist it because of her superhuman strength, durability, and stamina.

celeyhyga17
She took multiple stabbings from Thor over the centuries. I'd say her durability is up there.

StiltmanFTW
Do you know how Rage.of.Olympus came to be?

He was Lady Sif once.

Then a wild Rancor ate her and shat out Rage we know today.

Galan007
Originally posted by zopzop
She won't be immune to it. She can definitely resist it because of her superhuman strength, durability, and stamina. So Vader might have to exert himself a little more than normal in order to kill her, is what you're saying?

I can live with that. thumb up

StiltmanFTW
Originally posted by Galan007
So Vader might have to exert himself a little more than normal in order to kill her, is what you're saying?

I can live with that. thumb up

Gamorreans and Rancors are superhuman, too. Just saying.

Also, what's stopping Vader from using Sif's own sword against her? Or force-freezing her long enough for his lightsaber throw to do the job?

DarkSaint85
Or just chucking her into space.....

zopzop
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Or just chucking her into space.....
She has gear that let's her teleport.

Rage.Of.Olympus
Yes, Classic Sif had an enchanted sword that lets her teleport. Sif can also survive in space. Her BFRing Vader is a lot more likely than the opposite. Under some writers like Jurgens and Lee, she could teleport because of her innate powers.

This says Legends Vader. I’m ignorant to all of his abilities despite reading a shit load of SW comics. Apparently, the novels get really crazy.

An amalgam of that would be really beastly. As far as Vader is concerned, Sif is by far the physically strongest being he has ever encountered, durability as well, she could casually one-shot him, but force TK is formidable in legends. I remember Sidious creating planetary force storms. Sif can’t compete with that unless she has full gear like her the Norn stones she use to rock or something random.

cdtm
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Yes, Classic Sif had an enchanted sword that lets her teleport. Sif can also survive in space. Her BFRing Vader is a lot more likely than the opposite. Under some writers like Jurgens and Lee, she could teleport because of her innate powers.

This says Legends Vader. I’m ignorant to all of his abilities despite reading a shit load of SW comics. Apparently, the novels get really crazy.

An amalgam of that would be really beastly. As far as Vader is concerned, Sif is by far the physically strongest being he has ever encountered, durability as well, she could casually one-shot him, but force TK is formidable in legends. I remember Sidious creating planetary force storms. Sif can’t compete with that unless she has full gear like her the Norn stones she use to rock or something random.

Sif should be capable of killing a hoard of Rancors. Hell, she could probably rip apart a Star Destroyer (Forget the class 50 rating, them things are like parley: more of a guideline.)

Galan007
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Yes, Classic Sif had an enchanted sword that lets her teleport. Sif can also survive in space. Her BFRing Vader is a lot more likely than the opposite. Under some writers like Jurgens and Lee, she could teleport because of her innate powers.

This says Legends Vader. I’m ignorant to all of his abilities despite reading a shit load of SW comics. Apparently, the novels get really crazy.

An amalgam of that would be really beastly. As far as Vader is concerned, Sif is by far the physically strongest being he has ever encountered, durability as well, she could casually one-shot him, but force TK is formidable in legends. I remember Sidious creating planetary force storms. Sif can’t compete with that unless she has full gear like her the Norn stones she use to rock or something random. How do you think Sif would do against Vader's TK?

cdtm
If she can teleport, he'd be cut in half before he can even try it.

Sif will make Grand Moff Tarkin's crushing defeat (Best issue ever) look like nothing.

deathslash
Originally posted by cdtm
If she can teleport, he'd be cut in half before he can even try it.
How's she going to hit him faster than he can react? He has reaction feats that far outshine hers in addition to the precog.

cdtm
Such as?

deathslash
Originally posted by cdtm
Such as? off the top of my head, Vader stomped on someone that could react within microseconds and is scaled as being significantly faster/more powerful than someone that could experience milliseconds as entire minutes.

DarkSaint85
Ok, so I looked into Sifs teleporting.

It requires her to use her sword and weave patterns in the air, has no detail on range (i.e. do you need to stand next to her, be 0.5km away from her, etc) and isn't instantaneous.

https://i.postimg.cc/CL9D1fGM/RCO010.jpg

So no, she's not BFRing Vader before he force chokes her or throws a saber through her.

I admit I then checked Wikipedia, and it said she has to now use the Norn Stones to teleport. Last I checked, that isn't standard equipment.

DarkSaint85
Originally posted by cdtm
If she can teleport, he'd be cut in half before he can even try it.

Sif will make Grand Moff Tarkin's crushing defeat (Best issue ever) look like nothing.

She's not exactly Nightcrawler or Magik, lol. I can't even see her doing it in battle....

https://i.postimg.cc/k63Vb6g4/RCO008.jpg

https://i.postimg.cc/pmrnbMS2/RCO010-1.jpg

It's more likely Vader would cut her in half before she completes her sword dancing......

zopzop
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Ok, so I looked into Sifs teleporting.

It requires her to use her sword and weave patterns in the air, has no detail on range (i.e. do you need to stand next to her, be 0.5km away from her, etc) and isn't instantaneous.

https://i.postimg.cc/CL9D1fGM/RCO010.jpg

So no, she's not BFRing Vader before he force chokes her or throws a saber through her.

I admit I then checked Wikipedia, and it said she has to now use the Norn Stones to teleport. Last I checked, that isn't standard equipment. Originally posted by DarkSaint85
She's not exactly Nightcrawler or Magik, lol. I can't even see her doing it in battle....

https://i.postimg.cc/k63Vb6g4/RCO008.jpg

https://i.postimg.cc/pmrnbMS2/RCO010-1.jpg

It's more likely Vader would cut her in half before she completes her sword dancing......
She doesn't need the sword or the Norn stones to instantly teleport:
https://i.postimg.cc/bDqkS90r/RCO013.jpg
It's 'her birthright to traverse time and space'.

Galan007
Originally posted by cdtm
Such as? Vader used his precog to successfully navigate a Star Destroyer through the chaos of the Unknown Regions, while moving through Hyperspace(ie. FTL.)

DarkSaint85
Originally posted by zopzop
She doesn't need the sword or the Norn stones to instantly teleport:
https://i.postimg.cc/bDqkS90r/RCO013.jpg
It's 'her birthright to traverse time and space'.

Then why did she use the Norn Stones with Balder when looking for Thor?

After Aaron's shenanigans, I'm afraid I'll have to take it with a pinch of salt. Sure IN THE PAST Asgardians may have been able to do XYZ, but more recently?

Plus, does she use it in battle?

Rage.Of.Olympus

DarkSaint85
By Aaron shenanigans, I mean retcons. Mjolnir has obviously been in the sun plenty of times, but now...suns kill it.

Wonder Woman has been bulletproof in the past, but now,bullets nearly kill her.

I'm just saying, when was the last time Sif teleported? And when she did so, did she need equipment to do so? Scans from 1970s are all fine and dandy, but with such a niche character, different writers will have different interpretations.

And we take the most recent depictionn of said character.

I'm not saying Aaron wrote a retcon for Sif. I'm using it as an umbrella term for writers who just write whatever the hell they like, which unfortunately we have to take as gospel....

Rage.Of.Olympus

StiltmanFTW
https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/2/26196/3075841-0544848802-30107.jpg

DarkSaint85

Rage.Of.Olympus
Ummm, IIRC it was when King Thor was accosted for resurrecting that dead girl. The second time was when she teleported Magni during Reigning. I'm too lazy to look it up. And tbh, I care little for Sif these days. She's a turncoat under JA.

DarkSaint85
This is what I dug up: she was using it with Balder, when they were looking for Thor, after he was banished by Odin thanks to Loki.

That's such a generic Asgard storyline, I don't even know if it's from 2016 or 1965, lol

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