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1. Why Gotenks achieve the SSJ3?

2. Is the SSJ2 the form did Gohan use against Dabura?

3. Exactly when Vegeta did turn in SSJ2?

4. Why did Super Buu turn into Kid Buu instead of Evil Buu or Ultra Boo?

1.) Through training, and the power of Toriyama-haxx. Seems strange now, but Tori actually wrote the boys at a really high level back in the day.

2.) Gohan was definitely SSJ2 against Dabra. Given that Dabra was Cell-level, and Gohan was a LOT weaker than he was during the Cell Games, he wouldn't have been able to contend with Dabra at all if he hadn't been using SSJ2.

3.) Vegeta was already capable of using SSJ2 at the beginning of the Boo arc, imo. That's why he noted that Goku had "surpassed the Super Saiyan wall, too" when he briefly used SSJ2 to defeat Yakon. Vegeta was also acting like Cell-level beings were complete fodder, which he likely wouldn't have done if he didn't have SSJ2 in his back pocket. Some people argue that Vegeta only attained SSJ2 due to the Majin amp, but that was never stated/implied anywhere. Moreover, Vegeta used SSJ2 against Pure Boo after the Majin amp was long gone, with NO implication that said amp is what had allowed him to access it.

4.) Seems like taking Fat Boo out of the equation was akin to a 'factory reset' of sorts, which reverted Boo back to his original, pure form.

The kids are kind of unique, even for fusions. They can't individually reach SSJ2, let alone 3, yet their fused forms managed it. And it's also a form Goku learned in the afterlife, that was designed for that plane, making it that much more ridiculous for them to learn on their own.

No other fused character has achieved a similar power up, independent of their indvidual characters capabilities.

And I think they were only training in the RoSaT for ~1 week, which makes them attaining SSJ3 even more impressive.

But alas, these days the boys/Gotenks are treated as little more than fodder-class comedic relief.

Originally posted by cdtm
No other fused character has achieved a similar power up, independent of their indvidual characters capabilities.

To be fair now - no other fused character actually needed that.

Whereas Gotenks had no choice but to go SS3 to match/surpass Super Buu.

I know things have been different in dbs, but how strong were goten and trunks during the buu arc?

Originally posted by DeadpoolXXX
I know things have been different in dbs, but how strong were goten and trunks during the buu arc? The Daizenshuu states that Goten = Gohan(pre-unlock), and Trunks was slightly more powerful than Goten.

One of the intro pages in the manga also states that, aside from Goku/Gohan/Vegeta, the boys were the most powerful heroes on earth -- which tells us they were > Piccolo and #18 as well.

We also have showings like an enraged kick from Trunks doing far more against Fat Boo than an enraged kick from Gohan, Goten nearly overwhelming Gohan when they sparred, Trunks nearly overwhelming Vegeta when they sparred, multiple characters being awestruck by their ki, etc.

Remember, this was back when Toriyama wanted the boys to ultimately replace the adults, so he wrote them as prodigies of the highest order. Obviously that is no longer the case, though. ermm

Was boohan's universal scream referenced in any of the databooks?

Originally posted by Genii96
Was boohan's universal scream referenced in any of the databooks? It was referenced in Daizenshuu 7:


It's one of the few anime-only/filler feats that is regarded as canon.

However, if you watch the anime episode this showing occurred in, you'll find that Boohan's scream had the potential to break down dimensional barrier after dimensional barrier in a chain-reaction type of event. This would have ultimately allowed alternate dimensions to bleed through and "crush" U7.

Thanks, yeah I know it was a chain reaction, but still, that has to be a riduclous feat from screaming too loudly. I was planning on using it as an estimate for how much stronger buuhan was above super buu/gotenks... Also,do you believe vegito, assuming he wanted to, could've wrecked the universe? (If he couldn't do in ssj,he could go higher)

Originally posted by Genii96
Thanks, yeah I know it was a chain reaction, but still, that has to be a riduclous feat from screaming too loudly. I was planning on using it as an estimate for how much stronger buuhan was above super buu/gotenks... Boohan was logically around 2.5x Super Boo/SSJ3 Gotenks.

Originally posted by Genii96
Also,do you believe vegito, assuming he wanted to, could've wrecked the universe? (If he couldn't do in ssj,he could go higher) Do I think Vegetto could fire a blast at the center of the universe, and the subsequent explosion would destroy the entire thing? No.

I'm sure he could have matched Boohan's screaming tantrum, though.

Old Kai stated that Buu was stronger than beerus 70million+ years ago right?

Not exactly. Old Kai originally stated that the being who sealed him in the Z Sword was almost as "terrible" as Boo:
https://i.imgur.com/jayifNa.jpg
"Terrible" implies senselessly evil, imo, in which case I would agree that Pure Boo was more "terrible" than Beerus. We were also led to believe the being who imprisoned Old Kai did so because he was scared of Old Kai's powers or w/e.

However, Toriyama has since clarified that Beerus stuffed Old Kai in the Sword over a simple argument:

Hmm, I have another manga translation here tho

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn%3AANd9GcR_NI-lHEFOJogiwQk2XgGRyLCpb-KVxs_SQBhygbGUyxA32zxG
He seems to say he was less in both strength and being evil, which manga scan translation is seen as the most accurate?

Another translation here too

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn%3AANd9GcSPmFjB1yF-p6v6yBBBrhlpHlFWjSzjGQ5BpT8cLZ4ciFxNnM_W



Yeah,the part about bring scared of old Kai was pretty Much debunked few minutes later when Goku sent a child's attack at him to see if his boosts were true lol

The scan/translation I posted is straight from the VIZ manga.

I tend to put published VIZ material above most other 'fanlations', for obvious reasons.

I agree in general. There's some exceptions, like the early One Piece translation, where the translator, who wasn't even a fan of manga, turned it into a different series, almost.

Dedicated fans like Manga Streams or Dragon Teams are pretty safe bets, because they're real fans with a reputation to protect.

Originally posted by Galan007
The scan/translation I posted is straight from the VIZ manga.

I tend to put published VIZ material above most other 'fanlations', for obvious reasons.

Oh,ok, I see

Speaking of the Buu Saga:

What if Goku indulged Vegeta and used SSJ3 in their "final fight"?


If he beat him fast enough, there would be no Buu, right? So no Buu Saga? Skip ahead of Super?

I mean, it's not like anything really happened that matters in the next arc. SSJ3 was unlocked off screen, and Goku could have taught fusion any time.

Goku was resurrected, granted, but Beerus could fix that if he's hell bent on meeting a SSJG. Or, Dende's dragon could do it (I believe they fixed the limited use resurrections.)

Only things lost are Buu, Uub, Gotenks. None of them are players in Super.

SSJ3 is 4x SSJ2. So yeah, Goku could have ended it with a casual chop if he wanted to.


Taking Boo out of the equation would have a trickle effect.
-No Old Kai
-Goku stays dead
-No Mystic Gohan
-No fusion of any kind

Beerus would be extremely disappointed when he came to earth and saw such weaklings during the BoG era, and there wouldn't be enough living Saiyans to preform the SSG ritual. That's likely when Goku would be resurrected.

Yet Pure Boo couldn't handle Vegeta that easily

I never trusted multipliers.

Tbf, Pure Boo looked like he was just toying with Vegeta the entire time. And even still, Vegeta barely managed to last a minute against him.

Forgot about Elder Kai.

And true, Goku would remain dead. He'd probably still meet Beerus, being on King Kai's planet when they fought, but I guess Beerus won't really rush to revive him after their disappointing fight, and everyone else was doing jack all to find a way to bring him back, so.. yeah.

I mean, without Goku there technically wouldn't be enough Saiyans to preform the SSG ritual. So in that case, they'd likely resurrect Goku so he could take part in the ritual.

If Goku weren't resurrected, then Beerus would likely destroy the earth just for inconveniencing him.

Bump.

Why was Universe 7 had 5 Supreme Kais?

^ That question still hasn't been answered yet.

At least 6 counting Elder

I wonder which of them Beerus' life is tied to?

I mean, it's Shin now, but it obviously hasn't always been that way considering Beerus has been around far longer than Shin...

id think old Kai because beerus just trapped him in the sword instead of just killing him. keeping him imprisoned in a sword is a good way to keep him alive.

True, but in light of the recent manga chapters we can use that same logic for DaiKaioshin now.

Beerus allows Boo to absorb him so that he's trapped for all of eternity inside an immortal entity that is nigh-unkillable(vastly harder to destroy than the Z Sword, at least.) /shrug

ya thats true. i wonder what role shin plays in all of this? Does beerus's life just automatically become tied to whoever the current supreme Kai is?