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I know I said "dorf", but this is referring to all his incarnations.

Who wins this fight?

Ganon wins due to the ToP. Without it though, he wouldn't stand a chance.

Originally posted by ares834
Ganon wins due to the ToP. Without it though, he wouldn't stand a chance. Why would Ganon with just 1 Triforce beat someone who was able to match the Goddess Hylia and all her forces?

The dude seemed to be more powerful then her even as a whole.

Maybe normal Ganon May lose, but Calamity Ganon May be another story...

Originally posted by victreebelvictr
Maybe normal Ganon May lose, but Calamity Ganon May be another story... Calamity Ganon seems powerful and all, but idk if he's on the level of a Triforce-infused Ganon.

Hylia didn't have the Triforce, you goon. She had to become human to be able to use it against Demise.

Ganon wins. He has better feats _and_ a piece of the Triforce.

Pre-Triforce of Power Ganondorf stomps Demise.

Demise has no feats compared to Ganondorf. Demise has 0 god kills under his belt; Ganondorf kills 2 before he gets the ToP in OoT.

Demise can't fly; Ganondorf can.

Demise gets obliterated on his first encounter with the Master Sword; Ganondorf persists past his encounters with it.

Demise fails to get the Triforce in any capacity; Ganondorf succeeds more than once to obtain/assemble it.

Ganondorf is superior to Demise in every single metric.

Originally posted by LLLLLink
Pre-Triforce of Power Ganondorf stomps Demise.

Demise has no feats compared to Ganondorf. Demise has 0 god kills under his belt; Ganondorf kills 2 before he gets the ToP in OoT.

Demise can't fly; Ganondorf can.

Demise gets obliterated on his first encounter with the Master Sword; Ganondorf persists past his encounters with it.

Demise fails to get the Triforce in any capacity; Ganondorf succeeds more than once to obtain/assemble it.

Ganondorf is superior to Demise in every single metric. You are an imbecile.

Originally posted by victreebelvictr
You are an imbecile.


Do you have an argument or are you going to just cry?

Cease the stalling and post your position and evidence.

Good luck.

Demise is never shown the ability to fly in his reborn form. If you are going to claim that he can fly, then the burden of proof is upon you to prove it. Also, Hylia sent Skyloft into the sky because she knew that Demise couldn't reach it there, obviously.



He failed because he lacked the power and the cunning to obtain even a single piece before he was destroyed. He was destroyed by the first human who ever challenged him in battle.

https://i.imgur.com/PqdW8Dk.png

https://i.imgur.com/Q964MwG.png

https://i.imgur.com/5dM3Gs1.png

https://i.imgur.com/Zc6ETQc.png?1



Hylia sealed Demise away and then used her power to keep him sealed. At best, you can call this a stalemate, or a victory for Hylia. Ganondorf killed both the Great Deku Tree and Lord Jabu-Jabu passively with death curses before he even got the Triforce of Power. He didn't even have to try.

https://i.imgur.com/LpCu807.png

https://i.imgur.com/D1UktbW.png

https://i.imgur.com/jO9WcaA.png

Hovering is just flying in place. Ganondorf can move levitating/hovering. Straight DBZ stuff here.



Skyward Sword Link is a medium strength Link when compared to all of them that have existed (not counting Triforce). The only time any Link has taken a god form is the Hero of Time using the Fierce Deity Mask.



Hylia wasn't killed by Demise; she voluntarily gave up her godhood so that she would be able to use the Triforce (gods aren't able to use the Triforce).

https://i.imgur.com/LjdtfvW.png?1

https://i.imgur.com/deS99cg.png

https://i.imgur.com/1n0e945.png



Ganondorf would crush Hylia. Hylia is weaker in combat than Skyward Sword Link. Skyward Sword Link is weaker than the Hero of Time, who was Ganondorf's first opponent. Ganondorf loses to HoT in one timeline and 'allegedly' defeats him in another, meaning they are close to evenly matched. Therefore, Ganondorf is several factors stronger than Hylia in combat, and certainly has more powers than she does in sorcery.

Originally posted by LLLLLink
Demise is never shown the ability to fly in his reborn form. If you are going to claim that he can fly, then the burden of proof is upon you to prove it. Also, Hylia sent Skyloft into the sky because she knew that Demise couldn't reach it there, obviously.



He failed because he lacked the power and the cunning to obtain even a single piece before he was destroyed. He was destroyed by the first human who ever challenged him in battle.

https://i.imgur.com/PqdW8Dk.png

https://i.imgur.com/Q964MwG.png

https://i.imgur.com/5dM3Gs1.png

https://i.imgur.com/Zc6ETQc.png?1



Hylia sealed Demise away and then used her power to keep him sealed. At best, you can call this a stalemate, or a victory for Hylia. Ganondorf killed both the Great Deku Tree and Lord Jabu-Jabu passively with death curses before he even got the Triforce of Power. He didn't even have to try.

https://i.imgur.com/LpCu807.png

https://i.imgur.com/D1UktbW.png

https://i.imgur.com/jO9WcaA.png

@Comparing the great Deku Tree and Jabu-Jabu to ****ing HYLIA. You are laughably ignorant.

Demise has better feats due to the fact that he stood against Hylia, who was a real bonafide god, rather then the... beings known as the Great Deku Tree (who is not capable of creation, and not a god in any sense of the word), and... c'mon man, Jabu-Jabu? Are we actually serious right now? You expect us to take you seriously by claiming he's a god, and if he is, comparable to Hylia?

Link had the Master Sword when he fought Ganon, true, but one could argue that it was at the peak of it's power as of when Link fought Demise, it seems like a big deal.

Also wanna point out that there's a chance the only reason Ganon survived the Master Sword is because of the Triforce of Power, which Demise didn't have.

Demise was also weakened when he fought Link, the details are a bit grimey, but he wasn't at full power at the time, that much is clear.

Furthermore, Demise wields a blade similarly powerful to the ****ing Master Sword, which is Ghirahim, the exact opposite of the master sword.

In the Hyrule Historia, it states:

http://i.imgur.com/HDBsFyn.jpg

Demise wasn't at full power when Link finished him off either.

Hylia's/Zelda's soul was still being absorbed by Demise, and he was just recently sealed by the goddess.

Demise only managed to overpower the seal after he slowly gathered power for thousands of years.

In a way, the Imprisoned is actually more powerful then Demise at the end of the game. Link could only reseal the Imprisoned with a fully completed Master Sword, and couldn't kill him with it, and the seal was very close to being broken for good. That's something that Ganon could never claim.

Link had to use the Triforce to finish the Imprisoned off.

In the past, Demise is still licking the wounds from his fight with Hylia and is in the process of absorbing Zelda's soul to regain his strength.

Originally posted by Jmanghan
@Comparing the great Deku Tree and Jabu-Jabu to ****ing HYLIA. You are laughably ignorant.

Demise has better feats due to the fact that he stood against Hylia, who was a real bonafide god, rather then the... beings known as the Great Deku Tree (who is not capable of creation, and not a god in any sense of the word), and... c'mon man, Jabu-Jabu? Are we actually serious right now? You expect us to take you seriously by claiming he's a god, and if he is, comparable to Hylia?

Link had the Master Sword when he fought Ganon, true, but one could argue that it was at the peak of it's power as of when Link fought Demise, it seems like a big deal. Yes, that would be true...

Killing a tree and a Fat Fish is no achievement!

Originally posted by Jmanghan
Also wanna point out that there's a chance the only reason Ganon survived the Master Sword is because of the Triforce of Power, which Demise didn't have.

Demise was also weakened when he fought Link, the details are a bit grimey, but he wasn't at full power at the time, that much is clear.

Furthermore, Demise wields a blade similarly powerful to the ****ing Master Sword, which is Ghirahim, the exact opposite of the master sword.

In the Hyrule Historia, it states:

http://i.imgur.com/HDBsFyn.jpg

Demise wasn't at full power when Link finished him off either.

Hylia's/Zelda's soul was still being absorbed by Demise, and he was just recently sealed by the goddess.

Demise only managed to overpower the seal after he slowly gathered power for thousands of years.

In a way, the Imprisoned is actually more powerful then Demise at the end of the game. Link could only reseal the Imprisoned with a fully completed Master Sword, and couldn't kill him with it, and the seal was very close to being broken for good. That's something that Ganon could never claim.

Link had to use the Triforce to finish the Imprisoned off.

In the past, Demise is still licking the wounds from his fight with Hylia and is in the process of absorbing Zelda's soul to regain his strength. You legitimately covered nearly all of it! :laugh!

Thanks!

Never go full retard. The Great Deku Tree is the guardian deity of the forest whose purpose is to protect the world against outsiders and literally maintain the order of the world. Have you played the game?

https://i.imgur.com/uRotW88.png

https://i.imgur.com/asNF2HX.png



Ok, so you don't know how feats work and haven't played the game, and certainly have no knowledge of the original Japanese...

The GDT is a guardian deity which is stated in his Japanese title. He created the Kokiri/forest spirits as mentioned by a Kokiri who tells you that he is their father. I am not the one claiming that Jabu-Jabu is a god. The game directly tells us that he is one. If you believe it, that's on you, but the game plainly states that he is a god. I even provided the screenshot.

As for Demise, name the feats that has that are better than Ganondorfs. He stalemated to Hylia and Hylia had to have the hero to beat Demise because she couldn't do it herself. Ganondorf, especially with a piece of the Triforce, would clap both of their cheeks.



During the end fight with Ganon in OoT, the Master Sword glows with it's full splendor a-la BotW before the final blow.

https://i.imgur.com/T9mRzrr.png



True, but also Ganon persists past any defeat because we see him come back over and over. Contrast this with Demise, who loses on his first encounter with a human willing to fight him and is obliterated, never to be seen again. You can make a fair argument that since Demise and Ganon are both Incarnations of malice, Demise's hate carries on that way, but Demise the character is gone.



The game actually says that he hadn't fully absorbed Hylia's soul. Also, Impa says several times that his power is returning even while sealed as Imprisoned. Demise's normal "hair" color is black. Absorbing Hylia's soul is what gives it the fiery color. Following the trope, absorbing Hylia's soul should make him more powerful than before. It certainly would be folly to say that Demise + Hylia soul = less powerful than Demise. It makes more sense that him devouring her soul and going super saiyan would make him more powerful, even if he hadn't fully absorbed it yet.

https://i.imgur.com/9hDhkbm.png



Similar, but inferior. The blade is disintegrated along with Demise after tasting the might of the Master Sword.



The Hyrule Historia isn't canon. Evidence from the games is what we are looking for.



I don't wanna be rude, but that is NOT true at all. Ganondorf escaped from the Void of the Evil Realm. This was a seal that was created by 6 sages + the goddess blood heir who possesses the Triforce of Wisdom. On top of that, the Sacred Realm (from which the portal was opened) was sealed once again by Link returning the Master Sword to the Pedestal of Time at the end of the game. Ganondorf had to get past all of that when he broke out in WW's prologue story. This is overwhelmingly more than Demise had to deal with.



You mean this:

https://i.imgur.com/RdRVMLO.png

I strongly suggest getting the facts in order before making claims with no evidence to support them.

You are now stating that Hylia is weaker than Ganondorf.

Give me a break.

Originally posted by victreebelvictr
You are now stating that Hylia is weaker than Ganondorf.

Give me a break.

Hylia is weaker than Ganondorf and SS Link. If she wasn't she wouldn't have needed Link to defeat Demise, obviously.

Originally posted by LLLLLink
Hylia is weaker than Ganondorf and SS Link. If she wasn't she wouldn't have needed Link to defeat Demise, obviously. I am pretty sure it is a widely known fact that Hylia is extremely powerful and stronger than Ganondorf.

You know all your facts, but you simply use them incorrectly.

Originally posted by victreebelvictr
I am pretty sure it is a widely known fact that Hylia is extremely powerful and stronger than Ganondorf.

You know all your facts, but you simply use them incorrectly.

No, no it's not a widely known fact. You are denying what the game plainly shows us. If you can read, then you should be able to figure out that Hylia (or any other being) is weaker than any character with a piece of the Triforce. Hylia literally throws away her godhood for a chance to use the Triforce. That ought to tell you something.

Originally posted by LLLLLink
No, no it's not a widely known fact. You are denying what the game plainly shows us. If you can read, then you should be able to figure out that Hylia (or any other being) is weaker than any character with a piece of the Triforce. Hylia literally throws away her godhood for a chance to use the Triforce. That ought to tell you something. Have you considered she had to use it because there was no other way she could kill Demise.

Originally posted by victreebelvictr
Have you considered she had to use it because there was no other way she could kill Demise.

That's wrong. Link was able to do it himself, both with the Triforce in the present and using the Master Sword in the past. In both cases, it was never necessary for Hylia to give up her godhood so she could use the Triforce. Link did all of the work himself.

He has omnipotence at his disposal with the Triforce...

Originally posted by LLLLLink
He has omnipotence at his disposal with the Triforce... Are you stating that Link is omnipotent?

Originally posted by victreebelvictr
Are you stating that Link is omnipotent?

The Triforce is omnipotent (and omniscient). Anyone using the Triforce has access to omnipotence.

But Link only has one part of it.

Originally posted by victreebelvictr
But Link only has one part of it.

Link gets the entire Triforce in Skyward Sword, Link to the Past and A Link Between Worlds.

Originally posted by LLLLLink
Link gets the entire Triforce in Skyward Sword, Link to the Past and A Link Between Worlds. Skyward Sword?

That explains how he defeats Demise.

Originally posted by victreebelvictr
Skyward Sword?

That explains how he defeats Demise.

He defeats him twice. Once with the Triforce in the present and another time with the Master Sword in the past.

Originally posted by LLLLLink
He defeats him twice. Once with the Triforce in the present and another time with the Master Sword in the past. I know too little about Skyward Sword to argue this!

Mind if we could talk in PM for a moment?

Originally posted by victreebelvictr
I know too little about Skyward Sword to argue this!

Mind if we could talk in PM for a moment?

If you have questions, I don't mind answering them.

Originally posted by LLLLLink
If you have questions, I don't mind answering them. Thanks!

Originally posted by victreebelvictr
I know too little about Skyward Sword to argue this!

Mind if we could talk in PM for a moment? I do have to wonder why you fought so hard in this thread then.

5L has been mostly on point. I disagree with _things_ but it's not important. The facts are mostly in order.

Debating standards? My main rule is "game evidence only". No interviews, no guidebooks, etc. Very rare exceptions to this.

Originally posted by LLLLLink
Debating standards? My main rule is "game evidence only". No interviews, no guidebooks, etc. Very rare exceptions to this. Yeah, I could tell!

I do have a bias against Hyrule Historia and Hyrule Encyclopedia because they are full of errors and made up information.

Originally posted by LLLLLink
I do have a bias against Hyrule Historia and Hyrule Encyclopedia because they are full of errors and made up information. Clearly.

Originally posted by LLLLLink
Debating standards? My main rule is "game evidence only". No interviews, no guidebooks, etc. Very rare exceptions to this. Game evidence only, I care not for debate then. Lmao.

Originally posted by Jmanghan
Game evidence only, I care not for debate then. Lmao.

If you're not using actual game evidence, you're just tossing around headcanon, which is worthless.

Originally posted by LLLLLink
If you're not using actual game evidence, you're just tossing around headcanon, which is worthless. stuff besides game evidence isn't headcanon, ignoring everything BUT game evidence is ignorant.

Originally posted by LLLLLink
If you're not using actual game evidence, you're just tossing around headcanon, which is worthless. All the things you don't take seriously, I do.

Interviews especially, guidebooks not so much, but I 100% take Hyrule Historia as the highest canon, comparable to the game's themselves.

Continuity errors abound, but for the things it DOESN'T conflict with, it works.

The thing you quoted from HH in no way contradicts Ganon being more powerful than Demise.

Wrong. If there is no evidence for it in-game, then it is made up. If the thing is true, you should be able to show me where you got it from in the game.



Jesus Christ... The Hyrule Historia is full of kindergarten-level errors. It takes liberties that are completely non-existent in the Zelda-universe. It has 0 authority on canon; even Aonuma disclaims the book in his interview at the end of it, admitting that it is full of contradictions. If you use the HH as your bible, you're gonna feel sad when someone takes the truth from the games and proves it wrong.

The thing is we have so much more onscreen footage for feats with Ganondorf than we do with Demise, so it's far easier to make a case for Ganondorf than Demise. Ganondorf also has transformations that are far bigger than the form of Demise that we see. So far, I'm giving this match-up to Ganondorf, but I am definitely willing to be proven wrong.