Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.

Anyone who's read my posts, knows if nothing else, I'm very paranoid about power. I think criticism of those in power is a GOOD thing.


I also think people should be judged as fairly as possible. It's my opinion that police officers are often judged very unfairly.



Place yourself in the shoes of a police officer. You could be in a very high crime area, where people routinely gun down each other over "nothing". Maybe you're patroling a high theft area. Maybe someone stabbed someone else in a sports bar. Maybe in a parking lot, a man shot another man for complaining he was leaning against his car. (Both are things that happened only a few towns over from me.)


It's easy to armchair quarterback every time a story comes out where an officer supposedly "abuses" someone fighting against being cuffed. It's easy to call "murder" when a suspect refuses to obey police commands, pulls an object out of a pocket (Maybe it's a gun, maybe it's a phone.).

The fact is:

1. Police officers are human, and have the same self preservation instincts you do. Expecting them to be 100% certain of an object a belligerent suspect is holding, where being wrong could mean they die, is NOT reasonable. No one judging them would be able to maintain such a high standard.

2. The "other" person gets to make choices, too. If they choose to run, that has a consequence. If they choose to fight back, that's on them.


In most of these cases, the police are treated like the adult in the room, while the suspect/victim is treated as if they have no free will, at all. They aren't under the microscope, the officer is.



Which, imo, is incredibly unfair.



Of course, it also should be acknowledged that there are people who spin in the other direction. The police can do no wrong, and the suspect is always to blame.


That's also unfair, and not something to condone, imo. Scrutiny IS a good thing, provided we're using reasonable standards and not habitually holding one side to a ridiculously high, unfair standard.

at risk of burning a strawman: it's not reasonable to give them the power of law/life/death/etc and not expect them to act far more appropriately than a freshly traumatized victim or a criminal.
their job is to deal with this shit while keeping their adult pants on. it's part of their basic job description, and nobody forced them to choose the job. if cops were drafted, maybe i'd have a way different opinion.

Originally posted by Bashar Teg
at risk of burning a strawman: it's not reasonable to give them the power of law/life/death/etc and not expect them to act far more appropriately than a freshly traumatized victim or a criminal.
their job is to deal with this shit while keeping their adult pants on. it's part of their basic job description, and nobody forced them to choose the job. if cops were drafted, maybe i'd have a way different opinion.

And it's the height of idiocy to forget that cops are still human at the end of the day

Originally posted by Surtur
And it's the height of idiocy to forget that cops are still human at the end of the day

what does that even mean specifically and exclusively for police?

we can just use that to excuse anyone. literally everyone on this planet is 'just human'. should we just suspend all law and responsibility because, you know, just human?

Originally posted by Bashar Teg
what does that even mean specifically and exclusively for police?

we can just use that to excuse anyone. literally everyone on this planet is 'just human'. should we just suspend all law and responsibility because, you know, just human?

It means stow your bullshit. Nobody said they were forced to join, it doesn't mean we don't take into account the human factor.

Originally posted by Surtur
It means stow your bullshit. Nobody said they were forced to join, it doesn't mean we don't take into account the human factor.

which law has always done. see 'crimes of passion', as well as every occurrence of grotesque leniency on deliberate criminal/homocidal behavior displayed by corrupt officers.

police are entitled to the same due process as everyone else, and if an officer is traumatized at the scene and acts inappropriately, that will be reviewed as it fits the situation. every situation is different and you can't use 'just human' as some blanket forgiveness tactic

but then again that puts us on the dreaded topic of 'nuance' which you refuse to confront.

Originally posted by Bashar Teg
which law has always done. see 'crimes of passion', as well as every occurrence of grotesque leniency on deliberate criminal/homocidal behavior displayed by corrupt officers.

police are entitled to the same due process as everyone else, and if an officer is traumatized at the scene and acts inappropriately, that will be reviewed as it fits the situation. every situation is different and you can't use 'just human' as some blanket forgiveness tactic

but then again that puts us on the dreaded topic of 'nuance' which you refuse to confront.

Lol@ you bringing up nuance. Good stuff.

Originally posted by Surtur
Lol@ you bringing up nuance. Good stuff.

lol indeed that you're offended by it

Originally posted by Bashar Teg
lol indeed that you're offended by it

Is this how you're gonna cope? Mmkay.

i brought up points on the topic and you just did your tiny barker routine.

have fun with your pretend win, though. super-mature as always

Originally posted by Bashar Teg
i brought up points on the topic and you just did your tiny barker routine.

have fun with your pretend win, though. super-mature as always

You seem upset...

https://i.imgur.com/EgrhcsW.jpg

more barking. my points offended you, so now you need to derail/distract/deflect because fee-fees.

out of respect for OP's hastily conceived-yet-interesting topic, i'll ignore your time-waster troll shenanigans.

Originally posted by Bashar Teg
more barking. my points offended you, so now you need to derail/distract/deflect because fee-fees.

out of respect for OP's hastily conceived-yet-interesting topic, i'll ignore your time-waster troll shenanigans.

Seal the deal and call for me to get banned.

Cops vary around the world in role, one thing remains constant. Never trust a copper.

Can't quote Eon because he used that ****ing satanic obnoxious degenerate apostrophe, but I essentially agree with him 100%

Meanwhile police in my neck of the woods.

http://www.deadlinenews.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2016/05/POLICE-SWINGS-EDIT-1.jpg

Originally posted by Bashar Teg
or maybe he mistook the dildo in your hand for a weapon.

Jokes aside I had nothing in either hand, guy just seemed on edge.

Originally posted by Bashar Teg
or maybe he mistook the dildo in your hand for a weapon. um, im pretty sure that wasnt his hand.

Originally posted by jaden_2.0
Meanwhile police in my neck of the woods.

http://www.deadlinenews.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2016/05/POLICE-SWINGS-EDIT-1.jpg

Relieving stress after a hard day of work

Originally posted by Robtard
Jokes aside I had nothing in either hand, guy just seemed on edge.

assuming you did have a huge menacing dildo in your hand and they shot you, that would bring up about another area of leniency which has always existed and is always examined on a case-by-case basis: human error.

if he legit thought that your giant black dong was a shotgun, leniency would be taken in his case.

Originally posted by Bashar Teg
assuming you did have a huge menacing dildo in your hand and they shot you, that would bring up about another area of leniency which has always existed and is always examined on a case-by-case basis: human error.

if he legit thought that your giant black dong was a shotgun, leniency would be taken in his case. ive played gta and i know the dildo is alwayscin the station showers.

IMO it's not up for debate that cops are held to unfair standards if you take their training into consideration. Or the lack thereof.

For the Americans on the board, those two white cops aren't preparing a rope for lynching a ni66er. I know that might come as a surprise to you.

Originally posted by jaden_2.0
For the Americans on the board, those two white cops aren't preparing a rope for lynching a ni66er. I know that might come as a surprise to you.

Pshh cops don't lynch black people, they just shoot them.

Zing!

Originally posted by cdtm
Anyone who's read my posts, knows if nothing else, I'm very paranoid about power. I think criticism of those in power is a GOOD thing.


I also think people should be judged as fairly as possible. It's my opinion that police officers are often judged very unfairly.



Place yourself in the shoes of a police officer. You could be in a very high crime area, where people routinely gun down each other over "nothing". Maybe you're patroling a high theft area. Maybe someone stabbed someone else in a sports bar. Maybe in a parking lot, a man shot another man for complaining he was leaning against his car. (Both are things that happened only a few towns over from me.)


It's easy to armchair quarterback every time a story comes out where an officer supposedly "abuses" someone fighting against being cuffed. It's easy to call "murder" when a suspect refuses to obey police commands, pulls an object out of a pocket (Maybe it's a gun, maybe it's a phone.).

The fact is:

1. Police officers are human, and have the same self preservation instincts you do. Expecting them to be 100% certain of an object a belligerent suspect is holding, where being wrong could mean they die, is NOT reasonable. No one judging them would be able to maintain such a high standard.

2. The "other" person gets to make choices, too. If they choose to run, that has a consequence. If they choose to fight back, that's on them.


In most of these cases, the police are treated like the adult in the room, while the suspect/victim is treated as if they have no free will, at all. They aren't under the microscope, the officer is.



Which, imo, is incredibly unfair.



Of course, it also should be acknowledged that there are people who spin in the other direction. The police can do no wrong, and the suspect is always to blame.


That's also unfair, and not something to condone, imo. Scrutiny IS a good thing, provided we're using reasonable standards and not habitually holding one side to a ridiculously high, unfair standard.

I have a great counter-argument to the foundation of your entire point.

There are some very very shitty neighborhoods in the UK: every bit as terrible and cesspool ridden as US neighborhoods. Yet, the UK police do a better job and have fewer incidents of trigger happy cops.

I think the US should steal the prison system from Norway, adopt the practices from London's finest, adopt France's Healthcare system, adopt Spain's illicit drug approach, etc. etc. etc. bla bla bla

What does your counter-argument even means though?

We know that the US is largely a gun country while fire arms aren't as big a thing in the UK, the fact that policemen are trigger happy could be just a reflection of your average US citizen being trigger happy. I'm not even trying to be judgemental here if your population loves guns so will the cops.

Originally posted by Bentley
What does your counter-argument even means though?

We know that the US is largely a gun country while fire arms aren't as big a thing in the UK, the fact that policemen are trigger happy could be just a reflection of your average US citizen being trigger happy. I'm not even trying to be judgemental here if your population loves guns so will the cops.

Some places have every bit the violence rates as the US. Homicides, violence, robberies, etc. The UK is not this happy crime-free country that some retarded left-wingers in the US think.

Yet, they (their police) still shoot and kill far less often than in our dangerous cities and neighborhoods. They come under condemnation when the UK police shoot knife-wielding murderers.

Also, when a UK police officer uses their firearm, they are treated like they've made a mistake until the investigation is over (they are held to a higher standard than the people they protect and serve).


This article breaks it down more why UK police don't shoot and kill people often:

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/why-london-won-t-arm-all-police-despite-severe-terror-n737551

Here's a great takeaway:




We do not keep Law Enforcement stats as thorough as the UK. We just do not do as good of a job as the UK. One of the criticisms of the FBI and the disjointed crime-date from local Law enforcement offices.

However, we can be reasonably assured that, in the US, when police are dispatched to firearm wielding scenarios, our police would definitely have fired far far more than just one shot out of 3,300 scenarios.

The difference between the two is rather overwhelming, don't you think?

Originally posted by dadudemon

I think the US should steal the prison system from Norway, adopt the practices from London's finest, adopt France's Healthcare system, adopt Spain's illicit drug approach, etc. etc. etc. bla bla bla
Good options to explore.

It's depressing that a huge chunk of the country would call you un-American for even suggesting this.

To be fair, the police in England and the rest of the UK don't carry guns as commonly as police in America seem to. Not every policeman/policewoman in England carries a firearm. That would, naturally, be part of why they have less shootings.

As far as the topic goes, I feel like you can only be so understanding before you have to accept that these are the people that are supposed to protect our society from lawlessness. They SHOULD be held to a higher standard on that alone, imo.

Originally posted by StyleTime
Good options to explore.

It's depressing that a huge chunk of the country would call you un-American for even suggesting this.

It is rather disheartening that many Americans would think that. Especially if you consider the fact that Americans used to be the best as converging technologies and ideas from other nations and doing awesome stuff with it (and sometimes bad).

The US could stand to revive some of our idea-stealing ways and adopt some of the world's best practices.



We really really really need to improve how we collect criminal information. We are super far behind the UK in this. Why can't we do better? We are smarter than this.

Originally posted by dadudemon
I have a great counter-argument to the foundation of your entire point.

There are some very very shitty neighborhoods in the UK: every bit as terrible and cesspool ridden as US neighborhoods. Yet, the UK police do a better job and have fewer incidents of trigger happy cops.

I think the US should steal the prison system from Norway, adopt the practices from London's finest, adopt France's Healthcare system, adopt Spain's illicit drug approach, etc. etc. etc. bla bla bla

So what is Norways prison system?

Originally posted by Surtur
So what is Norways prison system?


Extreme focus on rehabilitation an reintegration. Not punishment.

They want productive citizens. If you focus far less on punishing people and focus more on making productive citizens, you'd be amazed what it does for your crime rates and recidivism stats.


If I'm being honest, I want productive citizens because I want their damn taxes and a better economy.

Originally posted by dadudemon
Extreme focus on rehabilitation an reintegration. Not punishment.

They want productive citizens. If you focus far less on punishing people and focus more on making productive citizens, you'd be amazed what it does for your crimes rates and recidivism stats.


If I'm being honest, I want productive citizens because I want their damn taxes and a better economy.

It's a good policy.

I'm not certain it's "realistic". I've come to believe, some people, are simply terrible people. Maybe it's environment, maybe it's not, but i can't see "fixing" such people.

"He was giving me shit for leaning on his car. So I shot him. Shit happens."

Originally posted by cdtm
It's a good policy.

I'm not certain it's "realistic". I've come to believe, some people, are simply terrible people. Maybe it's environment, maybe it's not, but i can't see "fixing" such people.

"He was giving me shit for leaning on his car. So I shot him. Shit happens."

Agreed.

I've talked about this at length, before. There are some people that cannot be rehabilitated. Is it possible to still get productivity out of them, though? Maybe they refuse to rehab but perhaps they can participate, voluntarily, in drug testing to get incarceration privileges like gaming hours or something? If I was in prison, and I had mental problems that made me extremely violent, I'd still want options to positively contribute to society.

I have tossed around the idea, from talking to Surtur, to execute people like that instead of making them lifetime prisoners. Not too sure about that. I am only on board with executing people that have 100% evidence against them.

Originally posted by dadudemon
Agreed.

I've talked about this at length, before. There are some people that cannot be rehabilitated. Is it possible to still get productivity out of them, though? Maybe they refuse to rehab but perhaps they can participate, voluntarily, in drug testing to get incarceration privileges like gaming hours or something? If I was in prison, and I had mental problems that made me extremely violent, I'd still want options to positively contribute to society.

I have tossed around the idea, from talking to Surtur, to execute people like that instead of making them lifetime prisoners. Not too sure about that. I am only on board with executing people that have 100% evidence against them.

They used to make things in prison that could be sold in the outside world. I still have an acoustic guitar made by a murderer that my father brought home when he was a prison officer still marked with H.M.P (Her Majesty's Prisons) on the neck.