Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.

Luke made a lifelike illusion from across the galaxy that fooled even Kylo Ren.

Snoke bridged the minds of two people to the extent that they could interact with each other's surroundings.

Which of these is more impressive? I think the second one, yet Luke's feat actually killed him.

Luke's, imo.

Snoke just exploited a natural connection that was already there. He didn't create it.

Lukes was far more impressive given Kylo and Rey already had a Dyad.

I think Maul was more impressive giving Ezra visions of Kenobi, from another star system, given there was no known force connection already in place between any of those 3.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
Lukes was far more impressive given Kylo and Rey already had a Dyad.

I think Maul was more impressive giving Ezra visions of Kenobi, from another star system, given there was no known force connection already in place between any of those 3.

Maul's feat is what got me thinking about this. It seems like a more common ability than certain people would have you believe.

Snoke a commoner? Blasphemy! Skillz will insult you then run away for this.

Originally posted by Big Gerald
Luke made a lifelike illusion from across the galaxy that fooled even Kylo Ren.

Snoke bridged the minds of two people to the extent that they could interact with each other's surroundings.

Which of these is more impressive? I think the second one, yet Luke's feat actually killed him.

Why is everyone impressed by an illusion. This feels like something Luke should be able to do without even trying.

Originally posted by Psychotron
Why is everyone impressed by an illusion. This feels like something Luke should be able to do without even trying.
Because it's not the same as legends. We don't know how tiring this ability is, but considering he was a galaxy away, and maintained a very convincing illusion (even for a trained and powerful force user) for quite some time, I'd say it's pretty impressive.

I don't believe he died from the exhaustion, but it defenitely took a visible toll on him, which is further proof of its difficulty.

^ I've mentioned this before, but it was stated in the RoS VD that Luke created the projection by pouring his own living force into the cosmic force in order to bridge the distance(literally hundreds of light years) -- which is something we have never seen before in the mythos.

The result was more than just a simple 'illusion', imo, as the projection clearly had solid elements to it...

-Luke gripped Leia's hands and kissed her forehead. He also manifested Han's dice, which were 'solid' and could be held by others.
-3PO's optic sensors registered Luke actually being there.
-His robes/hair were flapping in the wind on Crait.
-Kylo and Leia(who can very accurately sense presences in the force and had very strong connections to Luke) didn't realize that the projection wasn't actually Luke at first.


I believe it was literally Luke's essence/life force standing in front of them, which is why it was indistinguishable from the real deal. /shrug

Also this is why Luke died, lol.

Yeah Luke dying was the only shit part of that feat.

I wonder if it still would have killed him if he did it via a much shorter distance.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
Yeah Luke dying was the only shit part of that feat.

I wonder if it still would have killed him if he did it via a much shorter distance. With the added context the supplementary material provides, it becomes an absolutely extraordinary feat(especially when you consider that Luke had been entirely closed off from the force for YEARS prior to that.)

I think distance and time are huge factors, yeah. The farther away you're projecting, the harder you have to concentrate, as you are literally manipulating/channeling the cosmic force itself to bridge the distance... And the longer you manifest the projection, the more of your own life force you have to dump into it.

I understand you're trying to sugarcoat it as much as possible (since it's the only "cool" thing we've seen Luke doing in TLJ), but Rian's treatment of the character was still unforgivable.

Luke's "I was wrong" line in TRoS was basically Abrams apologizing to fans for Johnson's screw-up.

Sugarcoating?

I'm just mentioning the impressiveness of the projection feat, because the idea/myth that it was just a simple "illusion" no longer holds up... It was much more than that.

But acknowledging that one feat from the film was badass certainly isn't me trying to imply that TLJ wasn't a complete shitshow, lol... Especially when the film itself didn't even cement how amazing the feat was(it took supplementary material to do that.)

Kylo still should have figured out that Luke couldn't have survived that blaster barrage... and Luke's doppelganger leaving no red footprints should have tipped him off, too.

...Or maybe Luke could have survived that blaster fire in person, which is why Kylo wasn't overly surprised to see him alive afterward.

Originally posted by Galan007
...Or maybe Luke could have survived that blaster fire in person, which is why Kylo wasn't overly surprised to see him alive afterward.


This

Thats true.

After Luke brushed off the blaster barrage, Kylo didn't even let out an "impossible!" or whatever. He just kind of sighed IIRC. It was kind of one of those "O well. You can't blame me for trying" kind of things.

If anything, the fact Luke was wielding the lightsaber that was just destroyed should have tipped Kylo off

Originally posted by Big Gerald
If anything, the fact Luke was wielding the lightsaber that was just destroyed should have tipped Kylo off


Kylo might not have known it was destroyed. Since he was KOd at the same time.

That said, Luke should have used his green one.

Yeah, having Luke use Anakin's saber was actually pretty stupid(thx again, Rian), given that Kylo had obviously never seen him use it before. Would have made a lot more sense to have him use the green blade.

Yeah and for all Luke knew, Kylo might have had Rey prisoner or some shit. Was stupid as hell to use Anakins.

Originally posted by Galan007
...Or maybe Luke could have survived that blaster fire in person, which is why Kylo wasn't overly surprised to see him alive afterward.

I wish...

Kylo being retarded seems far more likely.

Originally posted by Galan007
^ I've mentioned this before, but it was stated in the RoS VD that Luke created the projection by pouring his own living force into the cosmic force in order to bridge the distance(literally hundreds of light years) -- which is something we have never seen before in the mythos.

The result was more than just a simple 'illusion', imo, as the projection clearly had solid elements to it...

-Luke gripped Leia's hands and kissed her forehead. He also manifested Han's dice, which were 'solid' and could be held by others.
-3PO's optic sensors registered Luke actually being there.
-His robes/hair were flapping in the wind on Crait.
-Kylo and Leia(who can very accurately sense presences in the force and had very strong connections to Luke) didn't realize that the projection wasn't actually Luke at first.


I believe it was literally Luke's essence/life force standing in front of them, which is why it was indistinguishable from the real deal. /shrug

Considering Sidious can Force choke Dooku from a galaxy away in Disney canon I'm not exactly impressed by Luke killing himself to save 10 people in a cave via illusion. Also, in ROS we see that his X-wing was perfectly operational and that he could easily raise it from the water even as a ghost, so it makes Luke killing himself even more retarded.

I don't think Luke wanted to force choke/kill Kylo, lol... And if he did, it would have completely f*cked the plot in RoS.

As for the X-Wing, two things:
a.) Rian clearly intended it to be fully out of commission in TLJ. JJ was again just playing damage control by having Luke raise it from the depths for Rey.
b.) Even if Luke would have used it in TLJ after his chat with Yoda, he would not have been able to get to Crait in time to help... Even Rey(who left in the Falcon well before Luke would have) barely got there in time.

Either way, my only point is that Luke's projection technique wasn't just your run of the mill illusion or whathaveyou. Even though the effort killed him, it was actually a very impressive/unique force ability(now that it has been fleshed out more in secondary material, that is) -- a literal manifestation of Luke's very life essence, projected hundreds of light years via the cosmic force.

Originally posted by Galan007
I don't think Luke wanted to force choke/kill Kylo, lol... And if he did, it would have completely f*cked the plot in RoS.

As for the X-Wing, two things:
a.) Rian clearly intended it to be fully out of commission in TLJ. JJ was again just playing damage control by having Luke raise it from the depths for Rey.
b.) Even if Luke would have used it in TLJ after his chat with Yoda, he would not have been able to get to Crait in time to help... Even Rey(who left in the Falcon well before Luke would have) barely got there in time.

Either way, my only point is that Luke's projection technique wasn't just your run of the mill illusion or whathaveyou. Even though the effort killed him, it was actually a very impressive/unique force ability(now that it has been fleshed out more in secondary material, that is) -- a literal manifestation of Luke's very life essence, projected hundreds of light years via the cosmic force.

More than the plot already was.

Yeah, I know what Rian wanted. This out-dicking each other contest with JJ was stupid is my point.

I don't consider something that does effectively nothing and kills you to be impressive.

Perspective, I guess.

What impresses me about the ability is *how* it was accomplished.

Is it stated anywhere that he died from the *strain* of the attack?

It seemed like he was only a little shook afterwards, and then chose to die.
Or maybe the whole "turning his living force into the cosmic force" brought his spirit into becoming one with the force.
It just didn't look like it was the strain of it that got to him.

Originally posted by Zentrex
Is it stated anywhere that he died from the *strain* of the attack?

It seemed like he was only a little shook afterwards, and then chose to die.
Or maybe the whole "turning his living force into the cosmic force" brought his spirit into becoming one with the force.
It just didn't look like it was the strain of it that got to him. "This discipline requires extreme concentration and focus, as Luke essentially pours his living Force presence into the all-encompassing cosmic Force, bridging incredible distances. The transition is so complete that Luke gives his all into the Force, finding serenity in his final mortal moments and becoming one with the great beyond."

-RoS: VD

thanks