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Maul and Savage as they were against Sidious.

ROTJ Luke


Canon versions plz.

Luke > Vader > Maul&Savage

Considering Vader was obviously pretty old by the time of ROTJ, do you think he'd slowed down at all where lightsaber combat is concerned?

Vader>Luke>Maul&Savage

So are you guys of the opinion that Luke is ~ = Vader in an all out and not just in Sabers?

Because it seemed in front of Palpatine, Luke was as useless as Maul and Savage were. I personally Think Vader should be closer to Palpatine level than that.

Originally posted by Eli Vanto
Considering Vader was obviously pretty old by the time of ROTJ, do you think he'd slowed down at all where lightsaber combat is concerned? Vader wasn't that old he was 45 or so around that time. Windu was over 50 when he beat Sidious and Dooku was like 83 when he beat Kenobi.

Amped Luke > Maul & Savage*

Originally posted by Eli Vanto
Considering Vader was obviously pretty old by the time of ROTJ, do you think he'd slowed down at all where lightsaber combat is concerned? No. Like juggernaut said: Vader was only like 45 at the time of his death.

Younger than Kenobi when he 3-pieced Maul.
Younger than Mace when he fought(and arguably bested) Palpatine.
Younger than Palpatine when he fought Yoda.
Younger than Dooku when he was making sport of Jedi during TCW.
etc.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
So are you guys of the opinion that Luke is ~ = Vader in an all out and not just in Sabers?

Because it seemed in front of Palpatine, Luke was as useless as Maul and Savage were. I personally Think Vader should be closer to Palpatine level than that. Hard to say, as we know next to nothing about RotJ-era Luke in canon.

That said, when Luke 'confronted' Palpatine he was saberless and may not have even known that Palpatine could use FL(otherwise he probably wouldn't have recklessly discarded his saber like that.) However, in the RotJ novelization, Luke used tutaminis to briefly block Palpatine's lightning... So there's that I guess. /shrug

Originally posted by Galan007

Hard to say, as we know next to nothing about RotJ-era Luke in canon.

That said, when Luke 'confronted' Palpatine he was saberless and may not have even known that Palpatine could use FL(otherwise he probably wouldn't have recklessly discarded his saber like that.) However, in the RotJ novelization, Luke used tutaminis to briefly block Palpatine's lightning... So there's that I guess. /shrug


Yeah point being, aside from his Saber fight against Vader, we dont really have much reason to believe that his force powers like TK rivalled Vaders at this point in time.

I know he didnt have his Saber against Palpatine. Im just comparing how he handled it to how Maul handled it, and dont see much difference, in that both were utterly useless against Palpatine without their Sabers.

^ I mean, prior to ESB(and with no formal Jedi training), Luke shook a Star Destroyer with a single TK attack. So by the time of RotJ, it's conceivable that he could have been around Vader's level in the TK department, imo(especially if you take the recollections of him ripping Star Destroyers out of the sky during the battle of Jakku at face value.) /shrug

Tbf we don't know how a saberless Vader would have compared either, as he never openly defied Palpatine until the end.

Yeah its conceivable. He has the raw power/potential, no denying that. Really depends on his mastery level though. Like with that level of TK the rancor really shouldnt have been an issue to him (wasnt to Vader when he faced one in the early Canon Vader comics).

It is hard pegging Vader next to Palps. I mean going by feats, his TK is so monstrous, I see no reason why he wouldnt be a near equal to Palpatine in the Force. But on the other hand its not like he was ragdolling Ahsoka in their fight.

Originally posted by Galan007
^ I mean, prior to ESB(and with no formal Jedi training), Luke shook a Star Destroyer with a single TK attack. So by the time of RotJ, it's conceivable that he could have been around Vader's level in the TK department, imo(especially if you take the recollections of him ripping Star Destroyers out of the sky during the battle of Jakku at face value.) /shrug

Tbf we don't know how a saberless Vader would have compared either, as he never openly defied Palpatine until the end. Battle of Jakku was after ROTJ though.

Originally posted by Eli Vanto
Battle of Jakku was after ROTJ though.


Luke shook an STD by accident pre-ESB.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
Yeah its conceivable. He has the raw power/potential, no denying that. Really depends on his mastery level though. Like with that level of TK the rancor really shouldnt have been an issue to him (wasnt to Vader when he faced one in the early Canon Vader comics).

It is hard pegging Vader next to Palps. I mean going by feats, his TK is so monstrous, I see no reason why he wouldnt be a near equal to Palpatine in the Force. But on the other hand its not like he was ragdolling Ahsoka in their fight. Yeah, I think the intent was that Luke was still immensely powerful by the time of RotJ, even though his training still wasn't really complete... Hopefully the current comic series(by Soule) will flesh out his abilities during that period a bit more, as it is bridging the gap between ESB and RotJ.

The rancor scene never made sense to me, as Luke didn't even try to use the Force at all there... Maybe he was feigning weakness in front of Jabba for some reason? Don't know.

I think if they went TK to TK, Vader would make Palpatine struggle for sure. Thing is, Palpatine isn't limited solely to TK, like Vader is.

Originally posted by Eli Vanto
Battle of Jakku was after ROTJ though. Well obviously, lol.

But RotJ and the battle of Jakku only took place about 1 year apart(a little less, actually.) While Luke may have been a bit more powerful during the latter, the difference was likely marginal, as that was before he started obsessing over bolstering his knowledge/power and scouring the galaxy for all the Force-related artifacts, relics, texts, etc. that he could find.

Originally posted by Galan007
But RotJ and the battle of Jakku only took place about 1 year apart(a little less, actually.)


Oh damn!

But given thats still only 5 years after he began training, I would think it would qualify as his early years, where his powers were still rapidly growing.

Oh I'm sure battle of Jakku Luke > RotJ Luke to some extent, but I personally don't think his power would have increased much at all during those months.

As mentioned, Luke's focus during this period was ending the Imperial establishment that remained after Endor(culminating with the battle of Jakku.) He didn't begin hardcore training/knowledge-seeking until after the battle of Jakku -- and that's when his power would have undoubtedly skyrocketed.

Didn't realize the Battle of Jaku took place so close to ROTJ.

That was confirmed in the Aftermath novels I'm guessing (haven't read them)??

Confirmed in Aftermath, along with multiple guidebooks.

Thanks galan

Originally posted by Eli Vanto
Considering Vader was obviously pretty old by the time of ROTJ, do you think he'd slowed down at all where lightsaber combat is concerned?
Nah. Vader's power was greatest at the time of RotJ. He only lost to Luke because he was conflicted and Luke was amped by his rage. That being said, Luke was still able to fight equally with him even before his rage amp.