Yoda vs. Mace Canon

Text-only Version: Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.



Forschbewithu
What does canon say about these two? As of rots, who takes it?

Mace is considered the champion of the order, who "seemingly" beat Sidious according to SW data bank.

The grand master of the order for likely centuries. Star Wars Galaxy of Adventures clearly states Yoda being unable to defeat Sidious in a lightsaber duel.

I'm not saying it's end all be all, but what does the new canon say about these two specifically?

Darthadi
Yoda is more powerful, he wins.

Scizard
Well Mace is the superior swordsmen so.. Mace.

Darthadi
Mace being better in technical skill means little when Yoda is just more powerful.

"There were many famous Jedi throughout the years. The wisest and most powerful Jedi of all was Grand Master Yoda."

Journey to Star Wars: The Last Jedi - The Power of the Force

Total Warrior
Yoda of course lol

Galan007
Originally posted by Darthadi
Mace being better in technical skill means little when Yoda is just more powerful.

"There were many famous Jedi throughout the years. The wisest and most powerful Jedi of all was Grand Master Yoda."

Journey to Star Wars: The Last Jedi - The Power of the Force Same basic concept with Vader/Palpatine. Vader is ranked as a better swordsman, but he'd still lose to Palpatine in an all-out battle.

That said, I would probably give Mace the nod against Yoda in sabers. Yoda takes Force and all-out, though.

Lord Stark
I'd still give Yoda the nod against Mace in sabers. Vaapad is probably not going to give him an advantage against the champion of the light like it would against Sidious.

juggernaut74
There is canon material putting Yoda and Dooku above Windu in sabers but apparently there is more recent canon material putting Windu above even Yoda..which I don't accept at all.

So I say Yoda is still the top dog.

Sheev
Originally posted by Lord Stark
I'd still give Yoda the nod against Mace in sabers. Vaapad is probably not going to give him an advantage against the champion of the light like it would against Sidious. Vaapad doesn't seem to work that way in canon. It's basically just Juyo with no underlying "meta" ability.


But I agree that Mace > Yoda in sabers. Yoda > Mace in the others.

Lord Stark
Originally posted by Sheev
Vaapad doesn't seem to work that way in canon. It's basically just Juyo with no underlying "meta" ability.


But I agree that Mace > Yoda in sabers. Yoda > Mace in the others.

Mmm toss-up then. Both of them disarmed Palpatine, but Sidious also wasn't using his preferred form. I'd also argue Yoda faced a more powerful Sidious.

Scizard
I seriously don't think it's implying purely technical skill. Yoda > Mace just seems like ignoring the new facts. I would prefer Yoda > Mace too but just seems like bias to me.

Darthadi
"There were many famous Jedi throughout the years. The wisest and most powerful Jedi of all was Grand Master Yoda."
Journey to Star Wars: The Last Jedi - The Power of the Force

Yoda is stated to be more powerful and the new quote doeasn't contradict this. That guidebook is about lightsabers so it's very likely the quote is only about technical skill.

Galan007
Mace was stated to be the "greatest swordsman" of the Order. Yoda was stated to be the "most powerful" of the Order. So in a saber duel, Mace should win. In an all-out setting, Yoda should win.

As mentioned above, this is really no different than Vader being placed above Palpatine in sabers.

Scizard
I suppose augmentation could give Yoda an edge but it seems extremely pointless to give Mace the accolade of being the finest swordsmen if he wouldn't be the best in a duel. How would you even figure that out, it's not like Jedi just casually stop using the force to augment their abilities and I don't see why you would even word it like that anyway. Do you think the author actually thought about technical skill verses all out?

There's also a quote that states Yoda's saber skills are unequaled but clearly that's outdated so I can easily see the 'most powerful' sources also being outdated. Although the Vader point is pretty good. It's pretty clear that Palpatine > Vader all out.

I can agree with your points but it would be nice if someone of the story group could clear it up. I feel like the average reader would intepret that as "Yoda is the most powerful in the force" and "Mace is the best duelist" erm

Sheev
I think the all out would be in Yoda's favor because he could spam TK and such at Mace.

In new canon Mace has almost no noteworthy TK feats.

YousufKhan1212
Mace wrecks.

Forschbewithu
Originally posted by juggernaut74
There is canon material putting Yoda and Dooku above Windu in sabers but apparently there is more recent canon material putting Windu above even Yoda..which I don't accept at all.

So I say Yoda is still the top dog.

Interesting. Do you have quotes/sources? This is pretty much the reason why I made this thread 🙂.

juggernaut74
It was stated in the Official Star Wars Fact File #60 that Yoda was #1 and Dooku was #2.

It's hard to find scans though I know people have them they're just sitting on them.

Forschbewithu
Originally posted by juggernaut74
It was stated in the Official Star Wars Fact File #60 that Yoda was #1 and Dooku was #2.

It's hard to find scans though I know people have them they're just sitting on them.

Is that still considered canon? When I Google it the date is from 2003. Am I looking at something else?

juggernaut74
There is two volumes the one I mentioned was from the 2nd volume published in 2015.

So I think those are canon.

Forschbewithu
Originally posted by juggernaut74
There is two volumes the one I mentioned was from the 2nd volume published in 2015.

So I think those are canon.

Ah, okay. Then I would imagine they would be! I have to find those scans somewhere. Maybe we'll get lucky here.

Forschbewithu
What pieces of canon put Mace over Yoda in sabers?

qwertyuiop1998
Originally posted by Forschbewithu
What pieces of canon put Mace over Yoda in sabers? Originally posted by Galan007
In the canon guidebook The Lightsaber Collector(slated for release later this year), Mace's leaked bio states that he was the "greatest swordsman" in the Jedi Order:
https://i.imgur.com/zdmRua2.jpg

And for a point of reference, this accolade was not contradicted by Yoda's leaked bio from the same source:
https://i.imgur.com/JBq308s.jpg


...Which helps explain why canon Mace was seemingly able to best Palpatine in sabers, while even Yoda could not.

Sheev
Originally posted by Forschbewithu
Ah, okay. Then I would imagine they would be! I have to find those scans somewhere. Maybe we'll get lucky here. It wouldn't really matter if it was canon. The most recent information is what we go by.

But I don't know if Fact Files is canon, because it also mentions a LOT of EU / Legends stories.

Forschbewithu
Originally posted by Sheev
It wouldn't really matter if it was canon. The most recent information is what we go by.

But I don't know if Fact Files is canon, because it also mentions a LOT of EU / Legends stories.

Didn't know what recent information we had until now! Anything else come out recently worthy of note?

Eli Vanto
Originally posted by Sheev
But I don't know if Fact Files is canon, because it also mentions a LOT of EU / Legends stories. thumb up almost all of the issues detail events from Legends, which Disney never acknowledges.

It's also published by De Agostini which is an international publisher that I don't think Disney gives much credence to.

juggernaut74
If I am not mistaken Disney put their logo on the issues.

Galan already said several times they were canon.

Darth Thor

Total Warrior

Galan007

Forschbewithu
Originally posted by Galan007
Mace was stated the be the Order's greatest swordsman in canon. Yoda was stated to be the most powerful Jedi of all time(up to RotS at least.)

So yeah, Yoda would beat him all-out, imo.

You're referring to the quote from Journey to Star Wars: The Last Jedi - The Power of the Force, correct?

Since that book was seemingly written for the last Jedi, do you think that means Yoda was more powerful than Luke even as of The last Jedi?

juggernaut74
That would make sense.

Galan007
Originally posted by Forschbewithu
You're referring to the quote from Journey to Star Wars: The Last Jedi - The Power of the Force, correct?

Since that book was seemingly written for the last Jedi, do you think that means Yoda was more powerful than Luke even as of The last Jedi? I don't think so, personally. The context of that section of the book seemed to be centered around the Jedi of the PT, so that's what I think it was referencing with Yoda(ie. that he was the most powerful Jedi up to that point.)

After all, Luke was already equal to Vader as of RotJ. And given all the training/relic hoarding Luke did in the decades following RotJ(coupled with his ridiculous potential), I think it is logical to assume that he surpassed Yoda.

Sheev
Well Sidious is about to stomp Vader in the comic series. So that should given us a good indication of where Vader (and therefore Luke) would stand in comparison to Yoda, considering he and Sidious were equals.

Galan007
Not really a good indicator at all, actually.

The comic series is set post-ESB. It would be pretty silly to assume that Palpatine's power hasn't increased at all in the 20+ years since he fought Yoda.

Sheev
Originally posted by Galan007
Not really a good indicator at all, actually.

The comic series is set post-ESB. It would be pretty silly to assume that Palpatine's power hasn't increased at all in the 20+ years since he fought Yoda. Doh. I completely forgot that is the era the issues are set in. embarrasment

You're right. The sidious in this series should be considerably above the Sidious from ROTS.

Total Warrior
Wait, sidious about to stomp vader? Weren't the two close in power in canon???

Galan007
This is post-ESB Palpatine, who is logically a good bit more powerful than he was in RotS -- hence why Vader initially tried to team up with Luke before confronting him directly.

Definitely sounds like he will stomp Vader. How he does it is the only question.

relentless1
Originally posted by Galan007
This is post-ESB Palpatine, who is logically a good bit more powerful than he was in RotS -- hence why Vader initially tried to team up with Luke before confronting him directly.

Definitely sounds like he will stomp Vader. How he does it is the only question.

what comic is this??

Galan007
Upcoming issues of Darth Vader.

Zenwolf
Is it that surprising?

Galan007
Not at all. Especially given the era.

I'm just curious *how* Palpatine will own Vader.

Inedian
Originally posted by Galan007
Not at all. Especially given the era.

I'm just curious *how* Palpatine will own Vader.

When does the duel happen? And why has come to this, Vader vs. Sheev? I am also curious how does Vader stand against him.

Galan007
I doubt it will be a lightsaber duel(though it's possible, I suppose.) Palpatine will most likely stomp Vader with the Force, imo.

In the current comic series, Vader is finding out that Palpatine purposefully kept certain aspects of his past(namely the information around Padme's death) hidden from him, and Vader is disobeying Palpatine by continuing his search for answers.

Inedian
Originally posted by Galan007
I doubt it will be a lightsaber duel(though it's possible, I suppose.) Palpatine will most likely stomp Vader with the Force, imo.

In the current comic series, Vader is finding out that Palpatine purposefully kept certain aspects of his past(namely the information around Padme's death) hidden from him, and Vader is disobeying Palpatine by continuing his search for answers.

Ok thanks thumb up Will follow what will happen.

Text-only Version: Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.