About the 6 "ones"
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Did the ones before Neo choose to distroy Zaion or The Matrix? And what happened?
I think all the others must have chosen to save Zion and start all over again, with the hope that the next 'one' might be able to beat the architect some way.
Yes the others chose to save Zion because that is what they was 'told' to do. They felt compassion for the rest of the human race and chose to save them. Also, they didn't have the skills that Neo has...this can be confirmed with numerous things in both films
After watching the architect's scene with Neo.......then reading the transcript I came to the following conclusion:
Yes, all 5 anomolies (the ones) that came before Neo chose to enter the mainframe and rebuild Zion.......thus preserving the human race.......all 5 chose to do so because they all had an appreciation sympathy for the human race and did not want to see it destroyed........the architect tells us as much.
One thing that sticks out in my mind is that the architect tells Neo that he is different from the 5 that came before him. Although all had appreciation and attatchment to the human race, Neo is the first one to love.
Why does Neo choose not to enter the mainframe? He chose not to because he loves Trinity and wanted to save her life.........he loved her so much that he would risk destroying all mankind just to save her life.
I'm not getting in to it in this forum......maybe the other one but yes, Neo is a program.......so are the other characters.........we have never seen the real world.....we have never seen a human in any movie.....the entire trilogy takes place inside of a simulation........every program/character has a purpose. Morpheus is to guide/influence Neo.........Trinity is to be the object of his affection.......and Neo's is to be the one to understand human emotions. The function of the simulation is to understand human emotions so the machines can create a real Matrix that human beings will not reject..........why has it taken 6 tries? Because the first 5 failed as the machines did not have the right programming to lead the one to fullfilling his function, they either did not have the right characteristics programmed into the anomoly or they did not have the right characters in place which surround Neo and help him to fullfill his function (i.e. oracle, trinity, morpheus,etc.). Basically, the trilogy are the steps taken by the machines before enslaving the human race, not afterward.
Interesting theory, but irreparably flawed. Think about it. How could you understand human emotions by running a simulation with no humans in it? Not possible. And if you could create programs as believable as Morpheus and Trinity, wouldn't you be done already?
I know........its just a guess.........but it is possible..........they run the simulation over and over (this is the sixth time) to better their A.I.......to improve on it to make it more human like ........emotions are not a human trait, they are an intellectual trait......if a machine has the same intelligence (A.I.) as humans they could feel the same emotions we do.........they would simply have a silicon chip with wires instead of a brain with nerves........it is completely plausible that Neo is finally the A.I. breakthrough the machines have been looking for.......the program with the intelligence to experience the most difficult of human emotions, love.
Morpheus and Trinity are not very convincing in my opinion......both act more like programs than humans. Both are completely focused on one thing............Morpheus is completely focused on finding Neo and training him to be "the one"......trinity is completely focused on helping Morpheus and loving Neo.........they never stray from their focus, which is rather unhuman like........humans lose sight of what they are trying to accomplish every now and again, machines or computer programs don't.....because they are programmed for that task and only that task.
I'm just throwing that out there.........to be honest, there are so many ways this story could go that I'm not even going to speculate on a definitive answer..........I'm just throwing around ideas untill Revolutions comes out and we know for sure.
The anomaly is something the Architect has been TRYING TO STOP FROM HAPPENING. So if it is something created by them why would they want to stop it from occuring. What you have posted does not make any sense and definately does not coincide with the things we have been taught in both films, the Animatrix and the game.
Morpheus is so focused on his objective because he wants to help free the human race, he wants the war to end.
Again, you contradict what the films have told us. BTW: I don't mean to come out as offensive, but when I see something that is opposite what has been told in the actual films themselves, then I get a little mad...LOL
Oh...and another thing...they already know about Love, because Persephone used to love the Merovingian. Not anymore though
Sifer.......no offense here but in a few posts I've read, you seem to recall things in that have never happened in the movies, animatrix, or game. You seem to be recalling things that you were led to beleive in the movies as fact.
I found the transcript of the Neo/Architect convo online. The Architect never once said he was trying to stop the anomoly.......in his conversation with neo he actually comes out and says that while creating the system they knew that they could not control 100% of the people inside........and that an anomoly which is unable to be controlled would be born into the system. Neo is that anomoly........his life is the sum of blah blah blah............they worked around the anomoly by designing the program so that the anomoly would actually serve a purpose to the system.............the anomoly's purpose would be to enter the mainframe of the system, then rebuild Zion with 23 people of his choosing...............thus keeping the human race in a never ending cycle of fighting/losing/rebuilding........if the humans are in a never ending cycle they can not win. The films take place in the sixth time the humans have been through the cycle.
He also illudes to the fact that the oracle has been there pointing Neo in the right direction to make sure he stays on his path to server his purpose to the system.
I believe in another thread, you posted "You are wrong"........I'm just throwing out ideas, just like you.....you can agree or disagree....none of us know for sure so unless your last name is Wachowski you might not want to be so uptight about your OPINION being different from someone elses........
Did u ever think to ur self that the guy was lying about everything?
I mean he said that Trinity would die and there was nothing Neo could do about it. Either he knew it could not happen but Neo proved him wrong or he wanted to drive Neo to save Trinity. And maybe to 'rebuild' Zion was not his purpose. As u said, the Anomally couldnt be controlled. He must not hav a purpose but to change wut is inevitable. The Architect also said that they wouldnt meet again. You wonder if he was bluffing againg?
To end a great story like this, the bros. better hav a great curtain call or these Matrix fans will never forgive them. As for me, I will be able to go on and know that Reloaded was pimp.
hmmm, I'm thirsty!
I am watching the Architect scene as I type this and this is EXACTLY what he says:
You're life is the sum of remainder of an unbalanced equation inherent to the programming of the Matrix.You are the eventuality of an anomaly which despite my sincerest efforts, I have been unable to eliminate from what is otherwise a harmony of mathematical precision.
So where do you get the idea that he is isn't trying to stop it? As that sentence points out that he is.
As for me recalling things that don't happen I think you are talking out of your ass because I have been watching the Matrix, Matrix Reloaded and Animatrix on a regular basis since reloaded came out on the cinema. Like, every other day (I like em...so what
I do recall me saying one thing that doesn't happen in the films...ONLY one. This being Morpheus saying: The previous one could pass in and out of the Matrix as he saw fit.
So if there are any others you think I am wrong on, then tell me because I can't find any or recall any.
True sifer.......I misworded........I posted "trying to stop the anomoly" when I ment to post "trying to stop Neo"............the architect does want the mathmatics to be precise to prevent the anomoly, this would make the matrix perfect but he isn't trying to stop Neo.........since he couldn't get the code precise he built in .........he is trying to get Neo to enter the mainframe............this is what both movies had been leading up to........if they had killed Neo anytime in the first of second movie, the machines would die as the system would crash killing their human power supplies.............they needed Neo alive so he could enter the mainframe and leave part of his code behind..........that is Neo's purpose in the Matrix...........from the machines' point of view anyway.
good call AliasNeo...........the architect did lie........we shouldn't believe everything we hear in the movies and take it as fact...........Neo was able to save Trinity after the architect said Neo couldn't..........the prophecy Morpheus babbled on and on about was false...........who knows what else we've been lead to believe as truth really isn't.
Ahh furry muff then m8. But as to the Architect lying, he didn't.
He said she is going to die and there is nothing you can do to stop it...he didn't say there is nothing you can do to change it
Which he did (because she did die but he revived her
). The architect or the machines have no idea as to what Neo is gonna be able to do since he never picked the same door as his predecessors.
Mabey going through door number 2 will win him a BRAND NEW CAR!
If the function of "the One" is as the Architect describes: to eventually return to the mainframe to make a final decision, why has the matrix been stalking even trying to kill Neo from the beginning? What purpose does his grueling journey serve?
I think everyone is on to something. My friend told me what he thought, which was something along the line of what you guys have written. In order to enslave the human race in a computer simulation, the Architect seeks to recreate a world using precise equations. He cannot create a "perfect" world because, as Agent Smith said in the first Matrix, humans defined their reality through pain and suffering, and that their primitve cerebrum would try to wake up from the "perfect" simulated dreamworld. As a result, to make the program more believable, the Architect must find a way to study the human psyche, eventually modeling it with flawless equations. "The One," along with other subjects who reject the Matrix and are freed, constitute the flaws of the Matrix, though "the One" is an especially critical flaw. The Architect has been using "the One" as a benchmark for the progress of his program's improvement. Every time the Matrix runs anew, he has made more corrections to the code and learned more about the human psyche through Neo. In addition he also uses Neo as the anomaly collector. Every individual who rejects the Matrix and is eventually freed is an anomaly. The newly freed individuals join Zion, which acts as the home of the human resistance as well as a reservoir for program anomalies. By repeatedly destroying Zion and repopulating it, the Architect is essentially filtering out anomalies from the Matrix, diluting the pool of Matrix-rejecting subjects. In principle, should this refinement process be allowed to proceed, the Architect will have his perfect program with zero anomaly. However, here is where the twist is. Refinement can continue only if "the One" chooses to see the big picture and save the human race. As we see in Reloaded, "the One" falls in love, something the Architect didn't expect. Driven, or blinded by love, Neo chooses to save Trinity and in effect alters what the Architect claimed to be the irrevocable fact that Trinity will die. This is where the Architect's experiment falls apart, leaving room for further plot development in Revolution. But then there's the part where Neo stopped the sentinels.
Newsflash: Neo is a program.........this is how he stopped the sentinals.
The scenerio is either:
A. The real world is actually just a computer simulation........in which neo is a program who has the power to do just about anything, much like in the Matrix program.
B. Neo is a computer program (the anamoly) that was placed inside the head of Thomas Anderson...........Zion and everything else in the real world is real, it just so happens that Neo has a program input inside his brain.
The architect basically tells you this flat out when he says, "all 5 of your predecessors BY DESIGN" meaning he designed them, they are programs..............
also, in ETM the oracle tells us that Neo is stuck between worlds.......his mind has been separated from his body........Humans cannot live in this manner, once they are in the matrix and they are unplugged without jacking out........separating their minds from their bodies, they die.......in both worlds. Neo doesn't..........he exists in both places at once (because he touched the source) his body is in a coma in the real world, yet his mind is still in the Matrix.......and he isn't jacked in.
This is also the reason Morpheus is so suprised while watching the Smith/Neo fight in the REV. preview........he says very surprised, "he fights for us?"..............because they have found out that Neo is a computer program, but he's still fighting for the humans..........
Newsflash: IT IS SO ANNOYING WHEN U SAY NEWS FLASH!
stop pretending ur cockaymee ides, o yes, thats right cockamaymee!, are better than anyone elses. Neo is not a fricking program. u say hes a program and then u go on to say "Neo has a program input inside his brain." Pick which one, program or human! last time i checked programs are inept to have brains or a personality for that manner. Neo has both. and love too. lets take the sex scene in M2....do u think two programs would have had sex? in a simulation? if ur right then there are some pretty sick simulation runners! i do believe he may have some powers than extend over the machines, but a thoroughly deny its a training simulation! that would be the worst ending plot to a movie series since the autrocious "Godfather Part 3"! well, im a little tired and a little irritable at this hour, apologies to all.
replace inept with inable (once again very late)
I don't pretend to know how the story will turn out..........there are so many ideas out there that are good...........I have no clue how it will end.......but I am positive Neo is a program. It is the only way he can be "trapped between worlds" as the Oracle tells Niobe in Enter the Matrix..........I'm sure you've played and beaten it because you are keeping up with the Matrix story so well that you've had to of. His body is in the real world in a coma.........yet his mind is in the Matrix........his body isn't jacked in. Only programs can exist in the Matrix without being jacked in. Yes he is "the one".........he is only "the one" in the Matrix, not the real world........he still has to be jacked in (if he were completely human) to be inside the Matrix............the oracle even tells us that part of himself (program ahem) was left inside the Matrix when he touched the source. This is how Neo still exists in the Matrix while not being jacked into it.............This also explains why the architect says all of "the ones" were designed............they designed the programs......
"Pick which one, program or human! last time i checked programs are inept to have brains or a personality for that manner."
Okay.......I guess you missed the part in Reloaded where BANE is a human body with a program in his head, the program being Smith......way to keep up with the story there believing that human bodies cannot have programs inserted into them.
"Neo has both. and love too. lets take the sex scene in M2....do u think two programs would have had sex? in a simulation? if ur right then there are some pretty sick simulation runners! i do believe he may have some powers than extend over the machines, but a thoroughly deny its a training simulation! that would be the worst ending plot to a movie series since the autrocious "Godfather Part 3"! well, im a little tired and a little irritable at this hour, apologies to all"
agreed.........that would be horrible.........but it is plausable from what we know thus far..........I don't think it's a simulation, that would make all 3 movies pointless.........but it's a possibility, nothing in any movie has ruled it out so far. You have to look at all the options, not just the one you think or hope will happen.
as far Newsflash being annoying...........don't care......I read so much crap on here by people who havn't even followed the story line through both movies and the game yet insist on posting ideas that are contrary to information we have already been given........that annoys the shit out of me..........if I annoy someone every now and then with something I post..........oh well, atleast what I post can actually be backed up by information we've been given in the movies, not something I've just made up because I think it would be cool and goes against information we've already been given.
i didn't know philosophy was so adept at turning brother against brother . . .
dear evil dead, sry for being a bit of a jerk before....i was a little tired and acted a little to harshly at what u wrote. Your belief is just as good as anyone elses. Once again, many apologies.
bah.......it's just the internet.........nothing to get me too steamed or anything.........all water under the bridge..........I was just saying that even though what I believe will happen in Revolutions may not (and probably won't) turn out to be correct.......it doesn't go against any info. we've learned........it doesn't defy any information we've been given so far. Hell.......we are all probably wrong........we'll all watch Reloaded and be hit with something we didn't even anticipate could be a possiblility.
there are 2 matrix-es: one the matrix ('they belive it's the year 1999') and the second one ('but it's closer to 2199') there is no doubt about it ... and the second one changes from time to time to prevent the 1% that reject the 1st matrix to "destroy" it.
What troubles me is ... choice ... when Neo was talkin to the Architect ... when he says "Visavi LOVE" he pushes the button and all the screens change into images of Trinity ... after a while the screens show images that have't happened in the movie (like when the Agent has his hand on her throat and is punching her) ... why is that?
It isn't closer to 2199 it is more like 2899
#1. my last post I said "Reloaded"..........I meant Revolutions, you guys probably knew that.
#2. Sifer is correct..........the rebels didn't know that this is the 6th version of the Matrix, they thought it was the first. If the life cycle of the Matrix is 100 years as Morpheus states in the first movie then it has been 600 years, not 100
OK, here is what I think, not worth much, but I have followed the movie and played the games. I also believe the simplest answers are also the correct ones. I have Matrix reloaded on DVD and have been watching it cause I want to understand what the heck he was talking about. I also like watching the fight sequences.
Neo was born from a mother. I believe he was human. I believe he went through some kind of evoultion after he died. The architect said he has remained human. I think he does eventually end up becoming a program if he is not one already. He can see code and I think he may be a program already. Morpheus said in the Rev trailer that someone brought up, "He fights for us." That confused me because, of course Neo fights for them, but maybe all the stuff he goes through makes him a program, not a machine. All machines are programmed, so that's why Neo can stop them. I think that the Matrix will nto be destroyed. I think Neo takes the place of the architect. Destroying the Matrix will kill everyone connected to it. ALL humans in the matrix will die. Unless they take every human and bring them to the real world. I think it won't,so that the new video game coming out, The Matrix Online, will continue on the story.
As for the architect, I been thinking about it. He created the Matrix, but not the real world. He is not a god, just a genious so to speak. I wonder how he sends machines to the real world. It would take a human in teh real world to build a machine. I know I am just confusing myself and getting lost in my thoughts, but i wonder where he came from. Maybe he is some kind of program himself. Maybe he is some sort of an anomally. I don;t know. We know what happens to Zion, but not the anomally. He carries code he inserts into the matrix, like rebooting the program. The Matrix is older than Neo knows, but it's not ancient by any means.
I believe that Everyone in Zion is human, but when they come to the real world, do they become machines? Even Dozer says that He's a machine. Maybe the only real humans in the real world are the ones born there. They don't have any abilities like people who were born in the Matrix. They can't even enter the matrix. All the people in teh matrix are probably code or machines designed by the architect to reflect what his own image looks like. I just contradicted what I said about Neo being human, but the more I write the more I think I understand. There are programs hacking programs and programs doing what there not suppose to. Maybe Neo is a program doing what he is not suppose to. Same as teh Oracle in that respect. Maybe same as everyone that came from the Matrix. They are a program doing what there not suppose to. He kills everyone in the real world so he can have all the control. What do men with power want, more power. The Merovingian is probably the architects right hand man. He has survived the predecessors and, if you pay attention to the trailer, captures Neo. Trinity says you give me Neo or we all die, Mero says something and Trinity says you better believe it. How he captures Neo, I don't know. He has to do it in the Matrix, cause that's where they go to save him.
In a small confusing summary, everything in the Matrix was created by the Architect. Humans excepted it, but what humans, it's a program. THe only real humans are the ones born in the real world. I apologize for my ramblings and my contradictive statements, I didn't thoroughly think this through until I started writing.
If the simplest answer is true, then Mr.Anderson wakes up from a dream and lives out his normal life. The Matrix is a dream world, maybe it's all just a dream. The worst part is waiting for REV to see what actually happens. I just hope they don't disappoint.
EDIT: I said that too about the Matrix being 600 years old. I think it's a little older cause it takes years for a population to produce. I said 600 years and I erased it cause I thought I would be wrong. I am going to watch the movie to see if my perception changes.
i haven't seen the movie in a while, nikon, so my timing might be off. but i think some of the things they show on the screen are what's happening right that instant. only seconds pass from the time neo leaves the architect's room to when he catches trinity. they show it later in the movie then they do on the screen because, well, other then play the movie split-screen there's not much else you can do.
I have another question aboout the six previous ones
If the previous "ones" wanted the next "ones" to beat the architecte, how come they just dont make up a detailed prophecy of the whole encounter with the architect?? That way, the next One can actually better counter and beat the architect in his own game.
ok. Neo is a human that lives in the real world. This has been said many times throughout the first and second matrix.He stopped the sentinels because his mind had touched the source and his mind could feel the sentinels because it had control over their power. Now his mind is fully within "an area between the matrix and the realworld." Stopping the sentinels doesn't prove anything about a matrix within a matrix thoery. I do agree with Neo being a program to a certain extent. check this out:
When a child is inserted into the matrix he can't just wake up and be in a play pen for no reason, even a baby wouldn't except that. So how do you insert a new human into the matrix without raising suspicion? Simple: Within nine months after the baby is conceived, a baby is inserted into the pod of a formerly deceased human. Each pod is numbered and therefore carries a certain code, wich is how an opperator can spot a rebel in the matrix, how past lives are experienced, How the red pill can track their position in the power plant, and how Thomas became the one is explained.
Thomas Anderson was inserted into the pod of the anomaly, the odd pod out of all of them that the previous ones were inserted into. That gave him his identity and personality, because how can you develop your personality or personal style when your never awake?
I do not beleive, however, that Neo's mind is straight up programmed. The matrix works on like a every system has an exception rule. The pods are directly wired to the matrix, and each pods individual code is it's input thing (?). It's only a port portraying each persons role in the matrix. Thomas's is the remainder, therefore the lowest comon denominator(or whatever) that simply CAN NOT accept the matrix for the real world. Therefore his mind is not programmed, it's influenced by the pod that he's in.
Wait, i'm not done.
Everytime the matrix is changed to a new version, the actuall equations within the system are slightly altered until Neo becomes quite different in many ways than the other ones. the versions of the matrix are systems within a system and work for the benefit of the system and do what they are prophecised to do. I don't think that makes them anomalys at all. Not if they don't disrupt the order of the system. Neo is the eventuallity of an anomaly that is caused when the program of the matrix changes to include love into the ones purpose, he is the unbalanced part that doesn't fit the equation of the reloading process.
damm i just typed alot.
So Here is WHAT I THINK. I Beleive that Neo was able to "Sense The Machines Inside of Him" as said in the Movie Because he is still conected, NOT the "still be in the matrix yet not jacked in" connected thing, but I mean that THE "REAL WORLD" IS ONLY ANOTHER MATRIX, that or as previously stated all in Thomas Anderson's head, be it, A DREAM. How else can he sense them? (I read the THREADS and I read about the "programed Neo, But here me out) Sentinals have some kind of wireless network within them that allows them to contact each other AND THE AGENTS, as said by agent Smith in the original movie "deploy the sentinals",
HERE IS WERE I START TO CONDRADICT MYSELF
I said that they have a wireles network to the agents, we learn that Neo is connected to agent Smith, thus he is able to connect to the sentinals, YET as said in ETM when Niobe meets Smith (right before she flees in china town witch can be a B**** in hard mode) Smith says that he is not an ageny anymore
BACK TO MY ORIGINAL STATMENT
So If Smith is not an agent, he has lost contact with the Sentinals, and the Wireless network, wich by the way is a HARDWARE inside the COLLECTIVE CPU of the sentinal and NOT a telecenetic power, also, we know that smith lost contact with the others because he has no more ear-peice.
SO how can Neo sense AND zap the sentinals? Easy, he is still connected to the seconde Matrix, aka the "real" world.
All the theories expressed here are based on the predication that Neo's (The One) purpose was to chose to save Zion. I have postulated that Neo in actuality serves no such pupose. Othewise why would Agent Smith (in The Matrix) and the Merovingian (in The Matrix Reloaded) have tried to kill "The One", which would only have resulted in the destruction of the Matrix and their own demise. While the five before Neo may very well have chosen to save Zion (that is assuming that they made it that far in the first place), this "choice" was irrelevant !.
We must first ask ourselves which came first, the Matrix or the One. I believe the obvious answer is the Matrix. Thus this would mean that Zion would have been populated by those who initially rejected the Programe, long before the One ever came into existance. Therefore the "choice" of the "One" is merely another variable in the programing of the Matrix. However this sixth version of the "one" Neo is different than those before him. What exactly makes him different, and therin a greater threat to the continuance of the Matrix . . . . ?
*head spinning out of control*
Omega> I must still beg to differ. If the "One's" purpose is to return to the "Source" way attempt to kill him ? And while it may be true that not every program knows everthing about the Matrix Agent Smith certainly did. I recall one of the first scenes of "Reloaded" where Smith talks to Smith "it's happening exactly as before . . . . well not exactly". We must also take into account that in "Reloaded" Agent Smith is no longer an "Agent" no longer an insturment of the Matrix, he is on his own agenda and he is still tryig to kill the "One". If the "One's" purpose was really to return to the source would not be attempting to kill him.
As for Zion there could be no survivors otherwise there would have been knowledge of the destruction for future generations. Nothing of this type of disaster was alluded to by any of the characters in the previous films. When Morpheus spoke to Neo in "The Matrix" he told him of a man born inside who freed the first of them. "Them" refering not to himself or those of his lifetime but to the initial inhabitants of the Zion he would have known of which would have been the 6th Zion.
Lol, if neo wasnt different there wouldnt be another movie. how hard is that to understand. He will end the matrix in one from or another, wether it be offspring or himself.. a part of him will end it.
I have noticed that People that post here go souly on what the movie presents.. but lets not forget the factor that even computer programs lie, and who creates the programs.. Man, and man is not flawless. And it is because of this imperfect creation The One will unleash the undoing that is needed.
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