 |
gal
Junior Member
Gender: Unspecified
Location: Israel |
 About the 6 "ones"
Did the ones before Neo choose to distroy Zaion or The Matrix? And what happened?
|
Jun 16th, 2003 03:24 PM |
|
|
| |
|
Corran
Lucifer
 Gender: Male
Location: Look out of your Window |
I think all the others must have chosen to save Zion and start all over again, with the hope that the next 'one' might be able to beat the architect some way.
__________________
|
|
Jun 16th, 2003 03:39 PM |
|
|
| |
|
Sifer
 Gender: Unspecified
Location: United Kingdom |
Yes the others chose to save Zion because that is what they was 'told' to do. They felt compassion for the rest of the human race and chose to save them. Also, they didn't have the skills that Neo has...this can be confirmed with numerous things in both films 
__________________
Sifer
|
|
Jun 16th, 2003 05:06 PM |
|
|
| |
|
RAB
Junior Member
Gender: Unspecified
Location: United Kingdom |
 bad bad bad
spelling. losers.
|
|
Jun 16th, 2003 09:59 PM |
|
|
| |
|
Evil Dead
Enemy of the Gospel
 Gender: Male
Location: U.S. F'N A |
My take
After watching the architect's scene with Neo.......then reading the transcript I came to the following conclusion:
Yes, all 5 anomolies (the ones) that came before Neo chose to enter the mainframe and rebuild Zion.......thus preserving the human race.......all 5 chose to do so because they all had an appreciation sympathy for the human race and did not want to see it destroyed........the architect tells us as much.
One thing that sticks out in my mind is that the architect tells Neo that he is different from the 5 that came before him. Although all had appreciation and attatchment to the human race, Neo is the first one to love.
Why does Neo choose not to enter the mainframe? He chose not to because he loves Trinity and wanted to save her life.........he loved her so much that he would risk destroying all mankind just to save her life.
I'm not getting in to it in this forum......maybe the other one but yes, Neo is a program.......so are the other characters.........we have never seen the real world.....we have never seen a human in any movie.....the entire trilogy takes place inside of a simulation........every program/character has a purpose. Morpheus is to guide/influence Neo.........Trinity is to be the object of his affection.......and Neo's is to be the one to understand human emotions. The function of the simulation is to understand human emotions so the machines can create a real Matrix that human beings will not reject..........why has it taken 6 tries? Because the first 5 failed as the machines did not have the right programming to lead the one to fullfilling his function, they either did not have the right characteristics programmed into the anomoly or they did not have the right characters in place which surround Neo and help him to fullfill his function (i.e. oracle, trinity, morpheus,etc.). Basically, the trilogy are the steps taken by the machines before enslaving the human race, not afterward.
 |
|
Jun 17th, 2003 05:31 PM |
|
|
| |
|
joelman
Junior Member
 Gender: Unspecified
Location: United States |
EvilDead,
Interesting theory, but irreparably flawed. Think about it. How could you understand human emotions by running a simulation with no humans in it? Not possible. And if you could create programs as believable as Morpheus and Trinity, wouldn't you be done already?
|
|
Jun 17th, 2003 06:41 PM |
|
|
| |
|
Evil Dead
Enemy of the Gospel
Gender: Male
Location: U.S. F'N A |
I know........its just a guess.........but it is possible..........they run the simulation over and over (this is the sixth time) to better their A.I.......to improve on it to make it more human like ........emotions are not a human trait, they are an intellectual trait......if a machine has the same intelligence (A.I.) as humans they could feel the same emotions we do.........they would simply have a silicon chip with wires instead of a brain with nerves........it is completely plausible that Neo is finally the A.I. breakthrough the machines have been looking for.......the program with the intelligence to experience the most difficult of human emotions, love.
Morpheus and Trinity are not very convincing in my opinion......both act more like programs than humans. Both are completely focused on one thing............Morpheus is completely focused on finding Neo and training him to be "the one"......trinity is completely focused on helping Morpheus and loving Neo.........they never stray from their focus, which is rather unhuman like........humans lose sight of what they are trying to accomplish every now and again, machines or computer programs don't.....because they are programmed for that task and only that task.
I'm just throwing that out there.........to be honest, there are so many ways this story could go that I'm not even going to speculate on a definitive answer..........I'm just throwing around ideas untill Revolutions comes out and we know for sure.
__________________
|
|
Jun 18th, 2003 12:52 PM |
|
|
| |
|
Sifer
Gender: Unspecified
Location: United Kingdom |
The anomaly is something the Architect has been TRYING TO STOP FROM HAPPENING. So if it is something created by them why would they want to stop it from occuring. What you have posted does not make any sense and definately does not coincide with the things we have been taught in both films, the Animatrix and the game.
Morpheus is so focused on his objective because he wants to help free the human race, he wants the war to end.
Again, you contradict what the films have told us. BTW: I don't mean to come out as offensive, but when I see something that is opposite what has been told in the actual films themselves, then I get a little mad...LOL
__________________
Sifer
|
|
Jun 18th, 2003 02:18 PM |
|
|
| |
|
Sifer
Gender: Unspecified
Location: United Kingdom |
Oh...and another thing...they already know about Love, because Persephone used to love the Merovingian. Not anymore though
__________________
Sifer
|
|
Jun 18th, 2003 02:18 PM |
|
|
| |
|
The Omega
Z10N0101
 Gender: Female
Location: Denmark |
The idea that we haven’t seen the real world has been debated endlessly in the forums by now. The reasons I do not think Zion as the real world are programs are these:
1) Storytelling-wise you do NOT introduce such a large-scale concept in a CONCLUSION.
2) Why did Smith an co go to such lengths to get the Zion codes from Morpheus in M1?
3) Neos mind is in the Source. He could stop the sentinels from there.
Zion IS a kind of simulation. It’s just NOT a program. It’s one of the many many themes of the movies: How a virtual and a real world influence each other. How a virtual world actually CAN hold more power than a real one. This far the system has been able to keep the anomaly in check, by allowing Zion to be rebuild, so that the Architect has a mean of black-mailing the One into submission. I agree that the A.I.’s are desperately trying to find a way to avoid the anomaly, but they still can’t quite grasp the idea of “no purpose”, as Smith tells us in M2, to not have a program to execute. That is, they don’t get free will.
Having intelligence is not the same as having emotions. Persephone was probably written to SAMPLE and test emotions. This far she’s been kissing Neo, Niobe and Ghost, and she LEARNS something from it.
Love would be as difficult as hate, anger or joy for a machine to comprehend. Dedication and purpose (such as displayed by Morpheus and Trinity) is not machine-like as such. It doesn’t show that they are just programs. Purpose is another theme of the matrix-movies. What the Oracle tells our protagonists becomes their purpose, and in a way they surrender their free will.
When the Oracle learns that Neo has seen BEYOND visiting the Architect she realises that THIS One is remarkably different than the previous anomalies. She knows that he will not choose the door his predecessors did. Hence the words “for what it’s worth, you’ve made believer out of me.”
I do however believe that we might meet one of the previous Ones in Revolutions. There are characters such as the bearded man and Seraph that are quite enigmatic.
__________________
"Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities."
-Voltaire
"That includes ruining Halloween because someone swallowed a Bible."
"I just thought you were a guy."
"... Most guys do."
|
|
Jun 18th, 2003 09:29 PM |
|
|
| |
|
Evil Dead
Enemy of the Gospel
Gender: Male
Location: U.S. F'N A |
Sifer.......no offense here but in a few posts I've read, you seem to recall things in that have never happened in the movies, animatrix, or game. You seem to be recalling things that you were led to beleive in the movies as fact.
I found the transcript of the Neo/Architect convo online. The Architect never once said he was trying to stop the anomoly.......in his conversation with neo he actually comes out and says that while creating the system they knew that they could not control 100% of the people inside........and that an anomoly which is unable to be controlled would be born into the system. Neo is that anomoly........his life is the sum of blah blah blah............they worked around the anomoly by designing the program so that the anomoly would actually serve a purpose to the system.............the anomoly's purpose would be to enter the mainframe of the system, then rebuild Zion with 23 people of his choosing...............thus keeping the human race in a never ending cycle of fighting/losing/rebuilding........if the humans are in a never ending cycle they can not win. The films take place in the sixth time the humans have been through the cycle.
He also illudes to the fact that the oracle has been there pointing Neo in the right direction to make sure he stays on his path to server his purpose to the system.
I believe in another thread, you posted "You are wrong"........I'm just throwing out ideas, just like you.....you can agree or disagree....none of us know for sure so unless your last name is Wachowski you might not want to be so uptight about your OPINION being different from someone elses........
__________________
|
|
Jun 19th, 2003 02:18 AM |
|
|
| |
|
GangusGrievous
4 armed Wonder
 Gender: Male
Location: Between Heaven and Hell |
Did u ever think to ur self that the guy was lying about everything?
I mean he said that Trinity would die and there was nothing Neo could do about it. Either he knew it could not happen but Neo proved him wrong or he wanted to drive Neo to save Trinity. And maybe to 'rebuild' Zion was not his purpose. As u said, the Anomally couldnt be controlled. He must not hav a purpose but to change wut is inevitable. The Architect also said that they wouldnt meet again. You wonder if he was bluffing againg? 
To end a great story like this, the bros. better hav a great curtain call or these Matrix fans will never forgive them. As for me, I will be able to go on and know that Reloaded was pimp. 
__________________
|
|
Jun 19th, 2003 04:20 AM |
|
|
| |
|
GangusGrievous
4 armed Wonder
Gender: Male
Location: Between Heaven and Hell |
hmmm, I'm thirsty! 
__________________
|
|
Jun 19th, 2003 04:21 AM |
|
|
| |
|
Sifer
Gender: Unspecified
Location: United Kingdom |
I am watching the Architect scene as I type this and this is EXACTLY what he says:
You're life is the sum of remainder of an unbalanced equation inherent to the programming of the Matrix.You are the eventuality of an anomaly which despite my sincerest efforts, I have been unable to eliminate from what is otherwise a harmony of mathematical precision.
So where do you get the idea that he is isn't trying to stop it? As that sentence points out that he is.
As for me recalling things that don't happen I think you are talking out of your ass because I have been watching the Matrix, Matrix Reloaded and Animatrix on a regular basis since reloaded came out on the cinema. Like, every other day (I like em...so what )
I do recall me saying one thing that doesn't happen in the films...ONLY one. This being Morpheus saying: The previous one could pass in and out of the Matrix as he saw fit.
So if there are any others you think I am wrong on, then tell me because I can't find any or recall any.
__________________
Sifer
|
|
Jun 19th, 2003 02:30 PM |
|
|
| |
|
Evil Dead
Enemy of the Gospel
Gender: Male
Location: U.S. F'N A |
True sifer.......I misworded........I posted "trying to stop the anomoly" when I ment to post "trying to stop Neo"............the architect does want the mathmatics to be precise to prevent the anomoly, this would make the matrix perfect but he isn't trying to stop Neo.........since he couldn't get the code precise he built in .........he is trying to get Neo to enter the mainframe............this is what both movies had been leading up to........if they had killed Neo anytime in the first of second movie, the machines would die as the system would crash killing their human power supplies.............they needed Neo alive so he could enter the mainframe and leave part of his code behind..........that is Neo's purpose in the Matrix...........from the machines' point of view anyway.
good call AliasNeo...........the architect did lie........we shouldn't believe everything we hear in the movies and take it as fact...........Neo was able to save Trinity after the architect said Neo couldn't..........the prophecy Morpheus babbled on and on about was false...........who knows what else we've been lead to believe as truth really isn't.
__________________
|
|
Jun 20th, 2003 06:20 AM |
|
|
| |
|
Sifer
Gender: Unspecified
Location: United Kingdom |
Ahh furry muff then m8. But as to the Architect lying, he didn't.
He said she is going to die and there is nothing you can do to stop it...he didn't say there is nothing you can do to change it Which he did (because she did die but he revived her ). The architect or the machines have no idea as to what Neo is gonna be able to do since he never picked the same door as his predecessors.
__________________
Sifer
|
|
Jun 20th, 2003 07:11 AM |
|
|
| |
|
The Gryphon
Junior Member
 Gender: Unspecified
Location: United States |
Mabey going through door number 2 will win him a BRAND NEW CAR!
__________________
your mom
|
|
Jun 22nd, 2003 11:24 PM |
|
|
| |
|
commentary
Junior Member
Gender: Unspecified
Location: United States |
The function of "the One"
If the function of "the One" is as the Architect describes: to eventually return to the mainframe to make a final decision, why has the matrix been stalking even trying to kill Neo from the beginning? What purpose does his grueling journey serve?
I think everyone is on to something. My friend told me what he thought, which was something along the line of what you guys have written. In order to enslave the human race in a computer simulation, the Architect seeks to recreate a world using precise equations. He cannot create a "perfect" world because, as Agent Smith said in the first Matrix, humans defined their reality through pain and suffering, and that their primitve cerebrum would try to wake up from the "perfect" simulated dreamworld. As a result, to make the program more believable, the Architect must find a way to study the human psyche, eventually modeling it with flawless equations. "The One," along with other subjects who reject the Matrix and are freed, constitute the flaws of the Matrix, though "the One" is an especially critical flaw. The Architect has been using "the One" as a benchmark for the progress of his program's improvement. Every time the Matrix runs anew, he has made more corrections to the code and learned more about the human psyche through Neo. In addition he also uses Neo as the anomaly collector. Every individual who rejects the Matrix and is eventually freed is an anomaly. The newly freed individuals join Zion, which acts as the home of the human resistance as well as a reservoir for program anomalies. By repeatedly destroying Zion and repopulating it, the Architect is essentially filtering out anomalies from the Matrix, diluting the pool of Matrix-rejecting subjects. In principle, should this refinement process be allowed to proceed, the Architect will have his perfect program with zero anomaly. However, here is where the twist is. Refinement can continue only if "the One" chooses to see the big picture and save the human race. As we see in Reloaded, "the One" falls in love, something the Architect didn't expect. Driven, or blinded by love, Neo chooses to save Trinity and in effect alters what the Architect claimed to be the irrevocable fact that Trinity will die. This is where the Architect's experiment falls apart, leaving room for further plot development in Revolution. But then there's the part where Neo stopped the sentinels.
|
|
Jun 23rd, 2003 07:43 AM |
|
|
| |
|
Evil Dead
Enemy of the Gospel
Gender: Male
Location: U.S. F'N A |
Newsflash: Neo is a program.........this is how he stopped the sentinals.
The scenerio is either:
A. The real world is actually just a computer simulation........in which neo is a program who has the power to do just about anything, much like in the Matrix program.
B. Neo is a computer program (the anamoly) that was placed inside the head of Thomas Anderson...........Zion and everything else in the real world is real, it just so happens that Neo has a program input inside his brain.
The architect basically tells you this flat out when he says, "all 5 of your predecessors BY DESIGN" meaning he designed them, they are programs..............
also, in ETM the oracle tells us that Neo is stuck between worlds.......his mind has been separated from his body........Humans cannot live in this manner, once they are in the matrix and they are unplugged without jacking out........separating their minds from their bodies, they die.......in both worlds. Neo doesn't..........he exists in both places at once (because he touched the source) his body is in a coma in the real world, yet his mind is still in the Matrix.......and he isn't jacked in.
This is also the reason Morpheus is so suprised while watching the Smith/Neo fight in the REV. preview........he says very surprised, "he fights for us?"..............because they have found out that Neo is a computer program, but he's still fighting for the humans..........
__________________
|
|
Jun 23rd, 2003 01:49 PM |
|
|
| |
|
Mithrandir
The Grey Wanderer
Gender: Unspecified
Location: United States |
Newsflash: IT IS SO ANNOYING WHEN U SAY NEWS FLASH!
stop pretending ur cockaymee ides, o yes, thats right cockamaymee!, are better than anyone elses. Neo is not a fricking program. u say hes a program and then u go on to say "Neo has a program input inside his brain." Pick which one, program or human! last time i checked programs are inept to have brains or a personality for that manner. Neo has both. and love too. lets take the sex scene in M2....do u think two programs would have had sex? in a simulation? if ur right then there are some pretty sick simulation runners! i do believe he may have some powers than extend over the machines, but a thoroughly deny its a training simulation! that would be the worst ending plot to a movie series since the autrocious "Godfather Part 3"! well, im a little tired and a little irritable at this hour, apologies to all.
__________________
Where is the Horse and the Rider?
Where was the horn that was blowing?
They have passed liked rain on the mountains.
Like Wind in the Meadows.
The days have gone down in the west.
Pella i amoni tenn' lumbule
|
|
Jun 25th, 2003 04:55 AM |
|
|
| |
Forum Rules:
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
|
HTML code is OFF
vB code is ON
Smilies are ON
[IMG] code is ON
|
|
Text-only version |
|
|
KMC Community Forums
