Spoiler for matrix revolutions???

Text-only Version: Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.

The attached File is to big to just post as a message,this explanation makes ALOT of sense, and is pretty long, but download the file "And It will show you how far the rabbit hole goes...."

PS: it is worth reading

i've actually read this before. it was talked about a little bit in this forum (i think the thread title was "scary matrix theory"wink, but i second that it is at the least worth a read.

quite a curveball if it was true. i have my nagging doubts, but--like i said--it's at least entertaining.

thanx 4 that smile


I know why Neo went into the coma at the end of reloaded. neo is a machine, and was affected by the EMP ray since he was so close. trinity and morpheus were to far away to be affected.

Th only reason he could do this was because the world he believes is the real world is actually the matrix outside the matrix. this explains why smith can reload himself in zion. if you watched the animatrix, you will notice the robot colony 01. as in reloaded, you will notice zion is spelled with 01 in it. zion is the 01 colony. the machines were forced to believe they won. humans actually won, and programmed the machines into the matrix. as the architect said, the 6th version of the matrix is 99% effective. 99 out of 100 people stay inside the main part of the matrix, and the other 1% stay in the "real world", or the matrix outside the matrix.

huh, you think?
a not so bad theory, maybe true
guess will have to wait until the movies comes out

The Omega
Another theory???
Before I bother to read it (not to offend anyone, but there have been some VERY long, very peculair theories around here): how does it explain Neo's ability to stop the sentinels at the end of Reloaded??

I'm gettin kinda tired of these theories maself......I just wanna watch the freakin movie!!!!!http://www.killermovies.com/forums/images/moresmilies/bored.gif

omega: i'll guarantee you it isn't true.

however, it's fun. and it does give a theory on neo's sentinel stopper.

bicnarok: lunchbox didn't write it.

the reason neo was able to stop the sentinel was because the real world is a matrix outside the matrix. neo has the same powers as he has in the inner matrix in the "real world". He has never tested his abilities in the real world. The love scene in my view was to show all of neo and trinity's plugs. they show their machine self. When humans plugged the machines into the matrix, they made them think they were human. Morpheus has made the AI robots/humans believe they were human. They are really two organisms in the matrix, humans and sentinels. Morpheus said "a sentinel for each of us". The only reason he knows that is because the sentinels are really from the robot colony programmed to believe they're human. it makes sense. there are 250,000 people in the "real world", and 250,000 sentinels in the "real world". The machines lost the war. Happy Dance

actually the idea presented in that attatched file spoiler, is very well thought. It explains A LOT of questions, even the ones asked around hre. But i doubt that it's THAT mind twisting wink

exactly. even for the w.bros, that's quite a mind****.

plus, the movie would have to be about four and half hours long.

yeah..ti would suddenly focus on philosofy instead of our regular fighting..

read the damn post if u wanna know y u dumb arse

Omega ur dumb I hate u

I wish ppl would stop putting spoilers on!!!! All they do is make everyone anxious, and they r all probably far form the truth anyway!!!!http://www.killermovies.com/forums/images/moresmilies/bored.gif

The Omega

OMG, that was so funny!

lunchbox . . . tell me that was a joke. tell me you aren't seriously sitting in front of your computer stomping your feet with crossed arms and pouting lips . . . are you serious? "ur dumb i hate you?" that was the ultimate comeback in, like, second grade, my friend.

because she didn't wanna read the theory? listen, you're gonna have to learn to cooperate here or we'll march you right upstairs without letting you finish dinner.

egads man . . .

my apologies for that, the rest of you. it was just too funny not to comment on. carry on.

Lunchb0x> Omega is not dumb at all she comes up with alot of good theories LEAVE HER ALONE!

The Omega
Nickjs21> laughing out loud laughing out loud laughing out loud

Korri> cool

That WAS funny!!!!!!http://www.killermovies.com/forums/images/moresmilies/baby.gif http://www.killermovies.com/forums/images/moresmilies/lol1.gif http://www.killermovies.com/forums/images/moresmilies/laughing.gif

The Omega
Hm... I think we spoiled it. Verity, dammit. That baby-smilie is killing me!!! Pfffrtrffffffff laughing out loud


i like it.. i like it a lot... but as said.. it cant be that cryptic can it? i mean, surely they're tryna appeal to the masses. but on the other hand there are those things on the matrix website that the masses probably wouldnt bother to do or couldnt do. also, theres that problem with the people in the neb not "goin down" when it fires the emp... and they couldnt have gone down and come back up coz someone had to get the sentinels out... right? confused

I think this is what the world has been waiting for, A movie that makes you use whats between your ears. Maybe the first two were to get you all about the violence, and then, HOLY CRAP! I HAVE TO USE MY BRAIN! I personally like the spoiler because now the last two movies will mean something in retrospect, not just violence.

LOL @ Nickjs

Nice :P

OMG. are we gonna have to come up with rules for this forum, such as, you have to have the maturity of a twenty year old before you can post here? I mean, come on, if you can't put off with criticism, then, in ten years, when you grow up and have to get a job, you aren't going to be able to handle your supervisors yelling at you. Oh, and, i MUST say, that, while there are many people in this forum, i have met few who can actively debate, and give justifiable reasons, and who makes sense ALL the time. Two that i can think of off the top of my head would be The Omega and Sifer. I will stand up for both of these fine people and any of the other people here, if you quip "Omega ur dumb I hate u" again. We have to have some maturity in this forum, and can we please stop posting SPOILERS? like Omega said, do it in a decent fashion, and we will tell you "Your an Idiot" in a decent fashion. Thank you, that is all.


http://www.killermovies.com/forums/images/moresmilies/clapping.gif http://www.killermovies.com/forums/images/moresmilies/notworthy.gif

big grin

The Omega

Yes, i find that funny, how people will join, say something totally retarded, and then forget that they joined and join on with thier petty, insignificant lives as if nothing had ever happened.

im have to admit it is a bit over exentric embarrasment and im 15 btw

Okay guys but seriously we all have our little "theorys" on the next matrix movie, but the writers of the movies were really good at confusing people so they will probably put a whole new twist on this movie.

yeah, that is true, but they have to reach some conclusion based on the evidence we have so far, maybe with additional information, but, it has to be somewhat relevant...Like, for instance, the fact that the Architect is in Matrix, but we are not introduced to him, nor do we see him, but there is evidence he is there...There may be something that seems totally irrelevant in Reloaded that we wont see until after Revolutions...However, the probablility that somebody figures it out is still there.

This is my first time reading this thread, and I must say nick your comments were funny as hell!

I was lmao for a few seconds. big grin

*** I saw send him to his room! ***


Now getting back to all these wonderful theories about the matrix.

We all know the truth will come out in Nov, so I say let them have there fun. This is the first movie series in a long time that has made the viewing audience think about what they were watching. Imo that's a good thing.

As long as we are able to look at what is presented as theories and nothing more, we should all be able to get along in here. One persons ideas/views should not be looked upon as the one and only truth.

The only ones who know the absolute truth are the original writers of the Matrix Trilogy. wink

All Hail The Almighty W. Bros!!!
May Their Wisdom Abound For All The Ages To Come!!!

So Let It be Written! So Let It Be Done!!


but seriously, they really are the most well read and philosophical directors i think i have ever heard of. It really is fortunate that Warner Bros. allowed them to make their movie.

oh yup!!

The Omega

laughing out loud That would be a funny plot twister.

that theory sounded good the first time i read it and i was convinced that was it but you have to think about the end of the first movie, they set off the emp right after neo left the matrix and neo didn't get knocked out...
so there's the big hole in that part of it, unless they're expecting people to forget about that

maybe, neo is really just a super duper hero guy that can do stuff without explanation, maybe, for the first time ever(!), the good guy is just really kick ass, with no reasoning behind why he is!

everything else in these movies have an explanation, except Neo?! What?! No, Neo is explainable, jus as everything else is...


im not reading anymore spoilers they always make me depressed sad



JediHDM>shut ur window

its still shut from the last time...burly keeps singing, im gonna have to pull out my .32...

laughing out loud


I was just thinking about the theories in the shower (hey, I suck at singing so what else is there to do in the shower?!?)...But I doubt many of them would be things that the Wachowski brothers would actually do...But I thought of something that might work that explains the ending of Reloaded...


Neo disappears from the matrix code when he goes through the door. What if, when he leaves the Architect, the place where he goes is a program separate from the Matrix? Neo saves Trinity in the program and apparently leaves the matrix to go to the Nebuchadnezzar. But instead, he was still inside a program. He realizes at the end that he is still in a program, so he is able to dispose of the Sentinels. Then for some reason, perhaps the realization that he really didn't save Trinity, or just an emotional/psychological overload, he faints and goes into a coma.

Zion exists, the people aren't all robots, the Matrix is where it should be, it's just that Neo was temporarily tricked to believe a program was the real world.

*/end spoiler!!!*

Or maybe not...At least I don't believe it but it would be a less disappointing ending.


Just thought of another theory...
What if humans run both the Matrix and Zion? If the revolution had already ended, and the humans won, what would they do with six billion people plugged into the Matrix? They couldn't unplug them all, because Zion is the only inhabitable part of the earth left.

The solution: Keep the Matrix going. Remove the anomalies so they do not end up destroying the matrix by telling everone the truth, and send them all to Zion. When Zion gets too full, destroy almost everyone in Zion to make room for more.

It would be better to kill a quarter of a million people than six billion, and they would have to keep the robot ruse up so that Zion is oblivious to the real enemy.

One of the biggest questions was what to do after the war ended. Maybe it already has decades ago, and each time the Matrix is rebooted it is make room for more anomalies to get out of the Matrix.

Make sense? Not make sense? Oh well, it's the most believable theory I've thought of that I can live with...it sounds like something that the Wachowski bros. would think up. And it gives an explanation for everything but the fact that Neo passes out at the end of the second movie...

I guess this is directed mainly to lunchbox and albino_agent:

I like the theory about Neo, Trinity, etc, all actually being machines. It answers a lot of questions, and fits logically and philosophically. My only questions with that theory is this: why would humans, after they won the war, need to plug the A.I. back into the Matrix? What purpose does that serve them? If they need the A.I., are the A.I. doing anything for the humans while being in the Matrix? If not, then why not destroy the A.I.? And what happens when Neo (as A.I.) "frees" people from the Matrix back into the "real" world? I read the attached file on the original post twice, and maybe this is answered in there but I just missed it.

You gotta love a movie that makes you think this deep...

The fact that Neo fainted when he shut down the sentinels does not prove he is a robot. When the EMP was set off in the first movie it completely enveloped the ship and everything around it, yet he was not 'shut down' or anything.

how do people come up with them being machines? there's no evidence of androids or synthetic flesh in any part of any movie.

If they'r machines within the matrix..then they're just programs...plain and simple.

yup, i dont think anyone is a machine, its more out there than the idea of MWAM, which can be nearly proved, excetp not verified except by the good bros.

This is interesting theory, and it certainly has its merits, but here are my objections:
If Neo is a robot and that thing he did at the end of the Reloaded was EMP which knocked him out too, but did not knock out Morph and trin because they were out of reach, then the most obvious question is: How the hell they all managed to remain unaffected in all of the previous uses of EMP throughout the story? For example at the end of part one?
In my opinion whave not and we shall not (or at least we should not) see the real world. Everything is the virtual world. Because, for Neo to have that power in the real world, and to be able to stop those Sentinels in the real world would be unforgiven, and it would ruin the movie for me. I already explanined why the EMP theory cannot account for this in the real world.
The rest of the theory I liked.

The Omega
There doesn't need to be a MWTM to explain Neo's stopping the sentinels.
Look in one of the Behind the Scenes threads, that discusses clipc and video from the very beginning of Revolutions.
Somehow Neo is still jacked into the Matrix at the end of Reloaded. How he did that and why it happened is still debatable.
One theory is, that he was never meant to leave the Architect through the door back to the Matrix. The choice was an illusion.
Neo :"If I were you, I'd hope we never meet again."
The Architect: "We won't."
How does he know that? With such certainty? Was it because Neo's digital self was supposed to be deleted in the explosion, and that way send back to the Source (what happens to deleted programs)?
But it didn't work. Or it worked, but not exactly as it was supposed to?

ooo me likes....I like that idea, it would make sense also!

I also liek the theory thet he is "still" jacked in and thats how he could stop the sentinals...BUT...the only problem there is that the sentinals arent within the matrix....

here's a wacko idea..:

what is the Sentinals are AGENTS withing the matrix...lol

I don't believe in MWAM, i think neo can stop the sentinels because they are also linked up to the matrix, as he is, and if he stops them/destroys them in the matrix (they probably dont have the same shape) then they are destroyed in the real world. perhaps the blindfold stops him getting confuse between the matrix and the real world, and stops him going into a coma? WHO KNOWS??? i'm confusing my self now, i'll just end this post

thats what I am agreeing with...

The Omega

yes yes, i have heard this theory before and agree with it 100%. Me likes me likes!!!

I think that he is possibly still in the matrix at the end of the game. When Neo goes through the door, he drops off the map in the matrix (remember, the operator can't find him?). There isn't any matrix-within-the-matrix; Neo just goes into another program when he exits the door.

Why, you ask? Because the Architect knows that the only time Neo can be killed is when he thinks he doesn't have superpowers. Remember how he came back to life when Trinity said Neo had to be the one because she loved him? In the same way, when Neo finds out that he is still inside a program, he knows that he can't be killed.

I still think that the humans have already won the war. You see, if the first One successfully destroyed the robots, he would have realized the danger in freeing six billion people from the Matrix. It just wouldn't be feasible. Anyway, why unplug the 99% who believe that they are living in the real world? Why spoil it for them and force them to live in a world of ruin?

So the first One decides the best thing to do is to continue the Matrix. Of course, the anomalies are still in the Matrix and would destroy it had they the chance. So that 1% are still allowed to exit the Matrix if they wish to.

Then comes the moral issue: What happens when Zion gets full? When it can't hold anymore people, Zion's citizens will try to make new settlements on the surface, and would discover that humans run the world above. So instead of being found out, they have to kill off most of the anomalies. They pretend to be robots so there is no chance that the secret of them being humans can get out.

If this theory was correct, it would be so completely awesome in my opinion. The Wachowski brothers left us with the question, "What happens if they win the war?" Now, we are presented with, "Is it right to kill the few so that the many may live in a better world?" Just like the Wachowskis.

Or so I would assume.

Awesome theory TheOmega...explains the one thing that I could not. If the Wachowskis decided to go with the MWAM, I'd probably walk right out of the theater amid a stampede of other disappointed true Matrix fans.

The MWAM theory is what they want everybody to think, and is the most probable theory on a basic level. That is exactly why the Wachowski's won't do it.

The Wachowski's are RPG/Anime buffs at heart, so I would not doubt their willingness to stretch the rules and boundaries of the real world.


how about anyone that wants to argue with anyone sit down, hav a cookie and shut the **** up and wait till Nov. 5th. Im tired of all this argument about things that hav not even been witnessed yet. by the way, i hate spoilers. y cant we just wait till the movie comes out and be surprised. i dont want to be expecting something and then something else happens. just dont say anything at all!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

its easy...you just ignore threads with "spoliers" i them...so calm down.. no one is forcing you to read this..hehe

I dont like spoilers either, but you cant control them so its pointless to get upset my man. I myself am probably not coming back to this forum after the 27th...I dont wanna know what happens either.

Saddest Moon
I like this theory alot! It makes sense.

However, if Neo was indeed a human, would this mean that he has powers outside of the matrix in the real world? Maybe his powers needed awakening in the matrix, and then out of the matrix. Just as Neo can enter the digital world, Smith has found a way to enter the real world. I believe that Neo and Smith are birds of a feather. One needs the other. Smith cannot die until Neo is dead. That is why he came back. What happens to Neo seems, in some strange way to be happening, indirectly to Smith.

Just having a ponder... thinking out loud...


Its a romantic thought, but neo is blinded in the fight with bane aboard niobe's ship, the logos.


You think he is...you do not know, either one of you...

Remember Troy and DuJour (sp?) in the first movie? Neo just wakes up and Trin hacks his computer, telling him to follow the white rabbit. Suddenly his friend (customer?) Troy knocks on the door, pays him 2 grand for a disk that says "AI Disc" on it, and then invites him to the party.

Anyway, is it possible that Troy is a ship captain? I mean, he wears all the nice leather and stuff, and made a point to get Neo to come to the party Trinity would be at. And there was no way to know that Neo would see the white rabbit on DuJour's back unless she made a conscious effort to turn around and show it to him.

I think Troy is probably a ship captain, and his friends are also his crew on whatever ship he commands. It would be awesome for Troy to show up sometime in the next movie just for the sake of making Neo say, "What the-?!?"

possible, however, in the code, Trin should be able to see the white rabbit, know they are going to Neos and tell Neo to follow the white rabbit...


--Question: would any viewer want to see a world where topside-mankind kills 250,000,000 of its own kind every so often because they now know what it already does?--

I would. Why? Because it is the unexpected, and makes you not only question the motives of humanity, but to question yourself as well. Could you live with knowing you were responsible for the death of every person in the Matrix? Unlikely. But could you live with yourself knowing that you ordered the death of a quarter of a million people to save six billion? Perhaps.

Some people would say that it is worth the death of the few to save the many. However, others would say that the end does not justify the means; that there must be some other way than the systematic eradication of nearly every living being on Zion.

What if you were unable to wake from that dream? How would you know the difference between the dream and reality? The knowledge of those on Zion is extremely limited; they don't even know the date that humanity fell. So how would they know what is controlling the machines?

How do you know that there isn't a human behind the curtain? Unless Toto pulls back that curtain to reveal the short ugly human behind it, how will you know whether it is a machine in charge or a man behind the machine?

Psychologists have written papers and even books on the Matrix, and I am sure many of them were concerning what to do if the humans did win the war. This merely extends the question and asks it of the populace.


The people in the Matrix did go topside. However, you cannot say that these people went and hung out with all the robots. They saw the sentinels, yet there was no proof in the first two movies that the source of the robotic army was not human.

Left field? Perhaps...of course, to Neo the possibility that the world he lived in was only a program probably seemed just as much from 'left field.' If that was to be the biggest surprise, the most unexpected event in the series, then why are we still watching the movies anyway?

The MWAM theory is possible, even probable. Yet it is such only when one does not consider the mentality of the Wachowski Brothers. The MWAM theory would have been very awesome if we hadn't been given so many hints about it in the second movie. Why make it seem so obvious when you can hold out six months and surprise the heck out of the populace in one fell swoop? Why give hints so that the realization of the MWAM comes slowly, when you can fool everybody until the end, and leave 99% of moviegoers crapping their pants while staring dumbfounded at the screen.

The Wachowskis--whether intentional or not--presented us with a "Lady and the Tiger" issue in the first movie. In other words, what happens when Neo finally ends the whole war? Does he unplug six billion people and let them go topside, or keep them in the Matrix and essentially become just like those who he fought for so long to stop. With such an opportunity to further delve into that question at their disposal, do you really think they would avoid it?

In the story "The Lady and the Tiger," a woman is essentially given the choice of seeing her lover married to another woman, or killing him. The ending, however, is not given. Because of this, it makes the question something that each of us must answer on our own.

Would you be able to order the death of a quarter million people to save six billion? Could you live with yourself, knowing that you are essentially continuing a pattern of destruction that by its nature must continue to preserve humanity itself? Or would you risk it all to do the "right thing," and hold off annhilation in an effort to find a better way for your fellow humans?

Everyone must answer this question himself...heck, the Wachowski's may not even answer that question in this movie. Instead, they may give the choice to Neo himself...stop the death of hundreds of thousands and risk the death of billions, or join those he has sworn to destroy; then leave us hanging. If I was them, that's what I'd do...but hey, I'm on the whole other side of the screen.

Also, to answer deathvegetable...the battle against the Agents themselves was never what got me into the movies...it was the movie in its entirety. If it did not give a psychological aspect alongside the psysical, then the series would lack whatever it has that has allowed it to gross over 1.2 billion dollars so far.

We know the deal with Smith...or whatever we've been told so far. Smith is multiplying (strange that he is the one that multiplies, spreads until every resource is gone and then goes elsewhere, just like he described humans in the first move. Btw, I've even heard a theory that Smith himself is possibly the only human in the Matrix, and that he is actually trying to destroy it to free himself from a program that has enslaved him. But I don't really think it holds much water.), Neo cuts a deal with the robots to get rid of Smith, and the battle is on. Though things in this aspect may not be as they seem, what we have been given thus far about the Neo/Smith battle really seems to lack much room for discussion...we have insufficient information to come up with any cool theories.

whoops, look back to wut i said. i didnt mean it cus i didnt theomega's theory. sorry everybody. im not a jerkno

I'm all about individual truth :-)

A follow-up question though, why would the matrix not fall into decline then. That is to say, why after one generation of human lifespan would it not become useless. Why are new bodies allowed to be inserted into the matrix if humans are alive and in control?

That is a very good question. Why do they keep inserting people back into the Matrix to continue the slavery? The easy answer would be to preserve the environment of the Matrix; that is to say, it would be necessary for people to see people being born and aging into adults to accept the programming of the Matrix.

Which brings me to the next question: why not just use artificial intelligence to simulate human beings? This one has no easy answer.

However, notice that we have not seen a single program age in this movie. The oracle, Seraph, the Merovingian, and Agent Smith could be ten years old or one hundred and ten, yet they would look the same day after day. Perhaps humans on the real Earth lack the programming to create an artificial human program that can be born, age, and eventually die.

Yet this is not to say that it could not have been attempted. Remember Troy (who I earlier suspected to be a ship captain)? He paid Neo a sizeable amount for a disc that said, "AI Disc" on it. Now, Troy made various references and hints about who Neo was; for example, "Hallelujah. You're my own personal Jesus Christ," and "It seems like you need to unplug , man." Perhaps his reference to Neo as a savior was his hints that he was a Zion ship captain who knew Neo may be the one.

Or, troy could be a program or a human working for the humans on the surface. The disc said "AI Disc," and may have been a component that was necessary in creating the AI for a human program that could grow and age. If so, Neo would not only be the supposed savior of Zion, but of the humans on the surface living behind a wall of lies and robots they control.

This is a theory I myself did not believe at first (humans vs. humans rather than robots vs. humans). However, it seems like everything with this theory is falling into place, most recently with what I explained about Troy earlier in this particular reply.

Hey, I think that it will turn out that Trinity is really the one too... I have some proof also.

Matrix Reloaded: Smith states that when Neo entered Smith, he got some of Neo in him.
Neo later on puts his hand into Trinitys code and brings her back to life. Perhaps this is because she now has some of The One code in her.

Take it for what is worth.

trinity is more like god (she answers to it, she also answers to jesus)
so going along sifers lines; god, jesus and the antichrist need to unite

The notion of Neo being a manchine is flawed because Neo doesn't suffer from the EMP shockwave in the first movie. Neither do the rest of the humans for that matter.

I agree in a sense...except the fact that Neo was "asleep" almost at the exact time that the EMP went off. So he could have been temporarily "disabled" or perhaps as a robot he wasn't "operational" when he was in the Matrix, and the EMP itself brought it out.

But I don't believe Neo is a robot. The Wachowskis wouldn't do that...not a chance. If they did then I'd leave the theater right then and there. I'm just saying that it is kinda possible...except that only Neo could be a robot, nobody else.

Of course, the robots could have planted a robot in the Matrix, then led Morpheus to somehow believe Neo was the one (even through the Oracle's influence).

But I still don't believe it. However, it is a workable theory, if you take out the fact that THE WACHOWSKIS WOULD NEVER DO THAT!!!

no, because, if it were only temporary, NEO WOULDN'T WAKE UP...his mind would shut down, whether he is in the matrix or not...

Okay...an EMP is a side-effect of nuclear/atomic explosions. But does an electromagnetic pulse completely overload the electronics (similar to a power surge), or does it just temporarily shut them down?

Plus, if Neo was a robot, then while he was in the Matrix his body could be shut down but his mind...or hard drive...could be "read" by the Nebuchadnezzar's computers. He wouldn't have to be active.

Yet I still stand by what I said earlier. He ISN'T A ROBOT! But he could be. BUT HE'S NOT!!!


There is an interesting scene in The Matrix. When Neo begins his training, Morpheus ask Tank how he's doing and he replies:
10 Hours straight!
Could he unwillingly be telling that Neo is really a machine...or a joke?

WAIT R U OUT OF UR MIND WE CANT WAIT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! mad mad mad .......LOL

did u ever see aliens because the robots in that movie were biological type robot things so maybe neos like that and cant get afectyed???????? confused

nice!!!! i also agree with that 99%

No-more-spoilers!!...Let's-watch-the movie!! rolling on floor laughing rolling on floor laughing rolling on floor laughing eek!

let me wacth the movie please


This is ....THE ONE

You mean the Synthetics? They still had electric parts that an EMP would disrupt.

I kind of like the idea in that spoiler.zip file...not bad. I guess that if this is how it happens, then I'll be able to accept the ending...It does kind of continue with my theory, that the Matrix will never truly be able to be destroyed.

To answer questions about EMP and Neo being an Android:

EMP will shut down all electronics that have microprocessors, especially ROM and CMOS style chips, but it will fry all TTL circutry. Shutting down the Neb could possibly prevent this, however, if Neo was an android, even in a suspended state as suggested might protect him, he would have been rendered useless. This is because an android could not wake himself up if he was shut down completely! There would have to be current flowing through some, if not all, of the processing circutry to allow for him to come out of his suspended state.

I just don't see how it could work.

Okay, I see...just in the same way the CMOS chip keeps power on at all times, Neo would have to have something to wake him up...

But like I said, I don't believe the MWAM theory or the Neo-Android theory. I'd much rather go with the human-human theory.

If the people of zion are robots how were all the people aboard the nebacanezer in the first matrix unaffected by the EMP that was released to stop the sentinles that had entered the ship? doesnt that blow the whole theory?

that would be waaaay too easy, i would at least give the wachoski's that much credit, not to do what everyone is thinking

Human vs machine is really not that different than human vs human -- humans made the machines and all... so I think we have found some common ground Serophis

And now for something completely different:

The human body can be looked at as the sum of billions of cells and trillions of atoms. In the end, every last one of them could be counted, their location known, and their reactive properties completely predicted. A human being therefor can be looked at as a type of mechanistic system, man is certainly not infinitely complex just more complex than humans today know about.

Computer models of rather simple systems of atoms and molecules exist today, which means in the future, say in the year 2199, a computer would be able to simulate all the actions of an individual as a model of atoms. I don't know about the soul or conscienceness. But it is quite possible that they are an emergent property of a sufficiently sophisticated system. Another explanation is the soul is somewhere else, elusive, not of this universe. In the end it doesn't matter for the scope of this film. Because if you go with the plot you see that Smith and some other programs seem to have the ability to think for themselves.

People in the end are really unsure of what intelligent life is, for the longest time it was thought that only humans possessed this ability to reason. But it is not out of the realm of science fiction to say that: machines created Neo, that many machines look at him in much the same way people view machines today--as not able to think for himself, and that he is being used in an elaborate simulation to prove them wrong or some such thing.

Anyway I was just thinking about that out loud and my point is biological organisms are just machines of a different kind. The human brain does operate based on electricity (as stated in the movie) and biological organisms are not effected by EMPs... so ''Neo is a robot'' is not as outlandish a theory as it first looks.

Heck you don't even have to go that far. The US government has chips that are shielded from EMP shockwaves anyway so please don't assume that some machines would not be made with this type of technology.


Your explanation on the human body being a machine, as true as it is, also boarders on philosophical arguments. I've made the argument (in philosophy class -- not posted online) that all substances effect the human body, thus our reactions are nothing but a chemical reaction to introduced stimuli. That means, anything you ingest - air, particles in the air, bacteria, food, medications, vitamins, etc - do nothing but cause a set pattern of actions. It is a point that can be made within scientific feasibility - but the concept can be argued forever, because am I making a choice to type this, or is it simply a predetermined reaction due to my chemical make up, chemical, and environmental stimulus?

You are slightly misguided about EMP. It can be shielded by heavy steel plating, yes, but it's not reliable - especially when there is current. See this quote from http://www.nodoom.com/chapter21toend.html:

drtbmx, that point has been brought up previously...They are obviously not robots, and the only one who even *could* be a robot would be Neo (which he isn't). The only way Neo could be is if he deactivated himself before plugging in.

i saw a theater that neo said to the MAIN machine "smith is out of your control and i am the only one who can stop him" so i think he makes a deal with the MAIN machine, that if he can stop smith before the sentinals reach Zion that the will not attack Zion.

MC Mike
...WE KNOW!!! Sorry, but that is kinda old news... stick out tongue


Lol, that news was out a few weeks ago...unfortunately it's been in only a few of the previews.

Anyway, The Matrix Revolutions is out tomorrow!!! Just over 12 hours and we'll all know who was right and who was just blowing smoke (sorry guys, I thought my theory sounded good).

If the spoilers that are floating around turn out to be true i will be very pissed off.

This is not a spoiler, this is how i think the movie should end.


ok, I shall take over from the scene in the " spoiler " when neo and trinity reach the machine intelligence.

Once there they are attacked by sentinels, the craft is destroyed. Neo and trinity are both knocked out. Neo goes over to trinity and finds that she is dead and breaks down in tears.
Then there is a flash and zion vanishes along with all the humans and sentinels, all that is left is the entrance to the machine intelligence.
Neo makes his way to the machine intelligence where he is told by the machine that he is now free and his memory will be restored.
Once his memory is restored neo discovers that he is a machine/robot himself, he is the robot seen in animatrix who killed his master.
When he went for the trial, rather then being destroyed they wiped his memory and connected him to the matrix as a test to see whether he was as human as some claimed and whether he could feel and display human emotions.
After being satisfied he had served his sentence of 30 something years as neo he is freed and all other robots freed and no longer enslaved by humans.
The trail makes humans and machines/robots appreciate each over more and learn to see past the fact that despite how we look on the outside we are all human on the inside.

The End

What do u think, let me hear your ideas for alternate endings.

well its out now soooooo ... ???

A Talking Dog
Wait! So,.... i'm...me?
- Jimbo {The Simpsons}

Men are machines in the Matrix, which is not really THE matrix, but instead a false one built by humans for the machines after beating them in the war? And the machines think they are human because they are in the false matrix?


if that was the real truth, this would probably have to be the greatest twist in cinematic history

ive seen it ive seen it ive seen it

Then what happens, forum? Will you at least say if at least one theory was right?

lots of theorys are right...

read this if you want to know.. dont if u dont wanna know anything..

the oracle is the mother, there is no MWAM, neos power over the sentinels is because his mind touched the source, the twins arnt in it, seraph is an angel

Just as I suspected...Too bad my cool theory didn't work out though.

can someone tell me who wins machine or humans and is zion destroy well whats left of it

do that highlight thing if no one else wants to know

Black Majick
Ok, a couple minutes ago I returned home from watching Revolutions. BLACK if you want to know. IM me on AIM -- My screenname is Dacula58. Also if anyone else has any questions I'll try my best to answer them, but like everyone else.. I am confused as well.

then why didn't the emp blast onboard the nebuchadnezzar at the end of the first movie affect neo, trinity, and morpheus? the blast only took out the sentinels. since the movie clearly shows the emp blast spreading out in all directions outside the ship, you can't say that neo, trinity, and morpheus were outside the blast radius.

Simonlebon, that point has been brought up many times before.

so what's the answer?

WHy u don't wanna wait til the movie, I don't know! But here Zion is not destroyed...Both Machines and humans prevail

OK... Neo as you know is the remainder of the unbalanced equation that is the matrix. As the architecht said in reloaded he tried to balance it but then came a monumental collapse of the matrix. Agent Smith is the other denominator and when he infected neo their codes came together thereby equalizing the equation and collapsing the matrix. The machines then fix the matrix ergo the black cat and the arabian girl is the next "neo" or the new denominator of the new matrix.

neo is a false prohet, does any one remember cypher?? when he said morpheus lied, cypher means 360 the reach of human understanding,he realized as the spolier is suggesting that the a.i is actually the trapped remember when he told trin that he was going back and she said you can't do that, he said YES THEY CAN making clear that his mind like their digtial minds are only indivial programs, or a minature pix in a grand picture., i knew the zion and 01 connection, but he ommited one thing, the ai in the animatrix were trying to broker a peace deal with the humans but the humans refused, so the were already expressing human emotions, which if the hypothesis is correct would ease the transition once the humans made the switch. people forget what anionlimes mean, abberitions in a set standard, seem in mathimatical equations which = binary codes which= the foundation of a computer. and as for the racial issue, the wacky bors(my name for them) must know balck occultism very well, because afro-centric occultism explains that that the black pineal which produces melenin, is the eye of god, since melenin occurs on the basis of enviromental interaction, meaning depending on the enviroment the phenotypical traits would adjust accordling. yes whites did at one point have melenin before they left africa as cro-magon and grimald. thats how the became white. but this would be benifical since the blacks would be able to use their current amount of melenin interacting with topside and their phenotypes after exposure to the top side would create the next human species with the best ablity to survive in that climate. and before some one writes" but white have melenin too" no they at one point in their evoultionary process had it but lost it because of how they interacted with the sun. yes i know their is no sun, but in order to evole one needs the melenin genus to be active and receptive to the enviroment. remember also how the narrator of animatrix explained that the robots study humans, everything they learned would have easliy been turned on them, and they realizing that the black genus would present a greater chance of survivablity in the new conditions of the matrix.
also the 12 tribes of isreal are considerd by some to be of african origen and that the whites became the number 13th

Everyone's talking about answers being cleared up in the 4th matrix....how do u know that there will be one? I haven't heard of another one....and if so how many more?

Homer...is this theory or from the third movie?

grrrrrrrrr i just got back from the movies and we bought the tickets for TMR but they carded us at the door so we had to go see scary movie 3 which actually isnt as bad as most ppl are sayin

lol, I feel for you Happy...I just saw TMR yesterday...I really liked it, but I don't think many people who haven't played through Enter The Matrix will like it that much...You get about an hour of footage that never made it into the movie just by playing the game...that's quite a bit of info that makes the trilogy worthwhile.

I think you may be right but why do they have to be robots? They could just be the machine AI in 'the real world' as well, all sitting in a facility on the human real world.

The energy never made sense. Orbital solar satilites transmitting power down or something for christ sakes. In over a thousand years the machines haven't figured out any of their problems? What the hell have they been doing that whole time?

but it does all make sense, thats the reason trinity's "love" was so important, not because she loved him but because it was a human emotion which seem to create a err binary code, thus creating an anomolie. because we all know human emotions are not quantifiable materials, remember what morpheus said that" the agents are bound by the laws of the matrix. also an interesting note matrix in spanish means womb. it could just be a computerized version of child birth.

Actually, a big thing in the third movie is the fact that even machines can have emotions...they are simply programmed into the machines. However, to answer the satellite question, do you have satellite? Have you ever noticed that during heavy storms, cloudy days, nuclear winters, etc., the satellite signal is lost?

Satellite power would not work. Period. However, the robots might consider building a big tower above the smoke (see movie 3). The tower wouldn't need to be too tall to reach above the smoke, and the robots could get a little extra power from solar panels above the tower.

Matrices in mathematics look similar to the code of the matrix. They are used for complicated math problems, and contain a large amount of numbers arranged in rows and columns (like Matrix code). The numbers are enclosed in brackets, probably why the name was chosen, because the numbers are kind of "in the womb," or enclosed.

Lunchbox, the only thing thing I have to say to you is...No, you dumb mutt...your taking this shiz WAY WAY WAY WAY INFINITY too seriously.
It's a movie...it's writen like it's suppose to be, it shows how it is...there is no underlying truth, no hidden agenda, no mask of perception here buddy, the movie is just a movie. The machines are machines...the humans are humans...the matrix is the matrix and zion is zion(not the matrix) that's right boys, SPOILER HERE the third movie...it's not the matrix...zion is the real world. Why more black people? because black people like to hump...(kidding) Oh, this is off the topic, but is it just me or does ballard look a HELL of a whole lot like Roy Jones (famous heavyweight boxer) anyway back to subject...the reason neo can stop sentinals is because neo is connected to the source...the machine mainframe...I believe everyone within the matrix is...they just dont realize it...when the ship blew up and he was running, he flashed on that theory, then it was made apparent to him...The reason he fainted was because in the third movie the oracle said he wasn't quite ready for that power yet. You see Mr. box...you may have gotten people thinking...but the humans are not machines...I'm still laughing because you wrote ALL of that crap...probobly took you months to gather info...all for nothing...Now that is humor my friend...that is humor...

Sadly, I fear that most people were disappointed at the lack of some underlying secret. The third movie was too easy...we knew by the previews a lot of what was going to happen...the previews left almost nothing to be discovered, and nothing to surprise.

I didn't want any kind of MWAM, or ZIAM ending, but I wanted to be blown away nonetheless. The whole point of the Matrix is that there is an underlying control; so I wanted it to come back and bite us in the ass in the third movie when we least expected it.

I wanted Zion to discover that humans had won the war long ago. However, rather than kill all the people in the Matrix, they left most of them plugged in, and had to kill off most of Zion every once in awhile to hide the truth...if there were too many people in Zion, they might beat the humans posing as robots, and might not realize the necessity of the Matrix to continue.

I also wanted to see more of Troy from the first movie. Remember, the guy that bought the disc from Neo in the first few minutes? He hinted that he was a program/person from zion/whatever, when he said, "You're my SAVIOR, man, my own personal Jesus Christ," and "Sounds to me like you need to UNPLUG." Not to mention that he had a crew of people dressed in black leather that followed him around, the signature of a Matrix crew.

ninjorp: electricity cannot be transimitted it a wave form, it has to be sent directly via hardwire....thatd be pretty funny to see a giant extension cord coming from the atmosphere....but i dont blame the machines for using humans as their energy source...but it is also a movie...hmmm...a movie....

What 4th matrix??...

The Omega
BigDiek> First warning. Your post does not become the truth by calling other forumites names.

OK I did say or something. We simple humans came up with quite a bit in the last 100 years. The machines can do nothing? OK some other possible energy sources. What about a thermal bore hole? What about hydro electric, wave action, wind action, it does seem pretty windy. What about taping the magnetic field of earth. How about Nuclear power, fission and fusion?
And why haven't they spread past the earth they should be bloody interstellar by now, at least a thousand years. What do these machines do for a living anyway???
Running the Matrix seems to be just daycare on a vast scale. All hail the machines!

There is SOMETHING fishy about the story.

MC Mike

stick out tongue

Yes it is just a movie, but like all good movies it tells a story that people can relate to and we do live the 'The Matrix' so to speak.

What ever your viewpoint is the movie has a different meaning. I'm starting to think its about the return of Nibru when we all find out were just a genetic experiment of the ET's. Will we think we are just machines or are our feelings real and do we matter?

This 'movie' will 'help' some people when the times comes to make your own 'chioce'. But for most of the sheeple they are to far gone anyway, no movie will help or anything else for that matter.

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