-I know, I know, this has been discussed before, but I wanna get the "Movie" watchers point of view. There's a similar thread in the Star Wars Forum, but they tend to get a little too technical, bringing in stuff and info from the Expanded Universe and blah, blah, blah. In my personal opinion, I think that Palpatine/Sidious let Mace defeat him there at the end because he sensed Anakin. If he were to strike Mace down, his plan to turn Anakin over to the darkside would be shattered. Now don't get me wrong, Mace is a bad mo fo, but I dont think he could take out Sidious.
What do you think? And if they were to fight again, would it still be the same outcome?
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Last edited by six6six on Jun 12th, 2009 at 02:57 PM
Palpatine faking defeat to create a golden opportunity for Anakin to fully turn to the dark side is a sound and possible theory.
However it doesn't mean Mace couldn't have beat him anyways. After Palps lost his saber he tried to blast Mace with force lightning, I believe when he did that, he was trying without reserve to take Mace out. I think if Palps could have killed him earlier, he would have, but he knew he couldn't and then MAYBE the theory that he faked defeat comes in later when Anakin arrives.
Still I don't think Palps would take such a great risk of depending on Anakin to intervene. Sure he has spent much time and effort in corrupting Anakin and he probably has some foresight into what will happen, but foresight is not 100% accurate and things can change. Palps knows this, so he is still taking a big risk nonetheless, this fact reduces the credibility of the 'faked defeat' theory. I'm sure theres also many other arguments against it.
Anyway, on to another point - Mace Windu has always been regarded as one of the most powerful Jedi. Anakin describes his master, Obi-Wan as "as wise as Master Yoda and as powerful as Master Windu". Obviously Obi-Wan is no where near them in power, but the fact that Anakin used this comparison gives insight to what level Mace Windu is at, apparently in the same league as Yoda. In light of this, I would say Mace Windu would beat Palps if they ever fought again.
Also, I'd like to add that the only reason Palps stalemated Yoda is because he switched the fight to a force battle. If Yoda could've forced a saber fight, he would have eventually killed Palpatine. Even if Palps switched to using force lightning against Mace Windu during the saber fight, it wouldn't have matter as we saw in the film. Unlike Yoda, Mace Windu's vaapad style (a lightsaber style/discipline that allows the user to redirect attacks at his/her opponent) allows him to withstand the lightning.
Also, personally I think the dark side is more powerful, and Mace Windu makes use of this.
Mace is strong, but he really hasn't shown much "on screen". Not enough for me to believe that he can take out Palpatine. Yoda, on the other hand, has "on screen" feats, like when he and Dooku went at it. I'm glad that the film showed Palps and Yoda stalemating. It shows just how strong Palps really is. We all know how strong Yoda is. Also, we have to take into consideration that Yoda has been training for over 800 years. For Palps to stalemate someone with this kind of experience is insane.
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Last edited by six6six on Jun 12th, 2009 at 03:56 PM
They stalemated because Palpatine is chicken shit.
Like I said he would've lost in a lightsaber fight against Yoda like he did against Mace. Palpatine is possibly the strongest force user, however his saber skills take a backseat to Yoda and Mace.
It is stated that Yoda and Dooku were the only 2 that could out-spar Mace in a lightsaber duel. However, if Mace was using Vaapad, he was virtually unbeatable. Now, Dooku was a damn surgeon with a lightsaber. Afterall he did train Grievous, Qui-Gon Jin, Asajj Ventress, etc. He was struck down by Anakin, which in turn was struck down by Obi-Wan. So if Dooku can defeat Mace(to some degree) and Sidious is Dooku's master, which Dooku was defeated by Anakin who also became Sidious' b!tch, which was defeated by Obi-Wan, how can we not believe that Sidious could defeat Mace. I know, confusing, huh?
He clearly feined weakness and injury to some extent otherwise he'd never have been able to come back so quickly. You can see the moment he realises he can turn Anakin...Just after Anakin says "You cant...He must stand trial" Palpatine has his evil scheming glance at Anakin then again starts saying he's too weak etc.
Dooku is nowhere near Yoda's level. And all those apprentices you mentioned aren't close to being top tier. Going by EU, Yoda embarassed Ventress, it was hilarious.
Which he can't...
Mace has always been regarded as one of the most powerful Jedi period. Count Dooku is a nobody in the scheme of things.
True. And I think he could've done it if you focused the same level of power he did at the end of the fight, after Anakin cuts off Mace's arm. But this wouldn't have turned Anakin to the dark side and most likely would've done the opposite.
Na, that was the crusty white-guy showing the negro that he is better and could have skewered him right there, if he so pleased. You see it on the negro's face, he knew he could have died there, had the crusty white-guy wanted it.
Crusty white-guy was never in fear of the negro and his crew, he knew long before he attacked the four of them that they couldn't match him in skill, even with 4 on 1 advantage.
GL was just playing the PC card, as having the epitome of "the man" beat a negro would have caused Al Sharpton to go crazy.
It's clear though at 1:03, Palpatine could have killd him, he didn't, because he needed to use the negro's death as a fulcrum for his ultimate plan, turning Anakin into his catamite.
i know what scene youre talking about because its the one everyone brings up. if palpatine had tried to kill mace at that point he would have died. he made a common mistake people make in fencing.
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Jun 12th, 2009 02:44 PM
