Ozy's plan to prevent nuclear war came to fruition.
Loki's plan at uniting the only people who could possibly stop him in order to somehow make them all hate each other... was a complete failure.
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Your main villain being buttraped as a punchline continuously throughout the movie and being rendered a non-threat in the eyes of the audience is bad writing.
It is difficult to take a villain meant to be the god of dirty tricks, lies, and manipulation seriously when some Russian spy makes him look like an assclown. That inexplicably Loki does manage to turn the Huc against them (Through largely their own stupidity) doesn't change that Loki suffered so much assramming abuse that he can't be considered a truly threatening villain.
He was always going to be Thanos's *****, but then he turned out to be the personal assmonkey of everyone.
It's not really a fair fight. Ozy had the complete trust of the entire country, not to mention his entire team and he had the capability to make all his plans under cover.
Loki was a known villain to the entire Avengers, plus they had advanced intel on him because of Thor. I'd like to see Ozy try and pull off a chitauri invasion if he was in the shoes of Loki.
If Dr. Manhattan completely trusts Loki and has no suspicions of him whatsoever? Ozy didn't quite "outplay" Manhattan so much as he simply "manipulated" his friend. That's not quite as hard as taking on the entire Avengers and SHIELD when they know full well who you are.
Had Dr. Manhattan known fully well what Ozy was doing, or even had an inkling of it, there's no way Ozy could "outplay" Dr. Manhattan.
A better comparison for manipulation should be Joker vs. Loki.
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Last edited by FrothByte on Dec 17th, 2012 at 08:24 PM
It's not as tho Loki had to actually outsmart anyone tho. He let them capture him and had his buddies bust him out. Ozy could easily replicate that.
The only manipulation Loki did was due to his "magical staff" that caused to entire team to get crabby. And all they did was fight over stuff they already had issues about(Stark and Rogers bickering, Banner upset he's a monster and no one loves him, no one trusting Snakes on a Plane). If Oz had the staff he'd do that same if not better
Good argument. I'd say Ozy has about as good a chance at succeeding if he had the staff as Loki would have if he had the trust of his entire team and country... at least from the mental point of view (because I'm not sure Ozy could physically withstand a thrashing by the Avengers).
Loki didn't really do anything. He made the group fight but they reconciled quickly after. In fact apart from Thor vs. Hulk they didn't fight at all but that's to be expected because it's Hulk. He got played by Black Widow like a fool. Ozymandias's plan was way more elaborate and it actually worked perfectly.
Last edited by The Silent Hero on Dec 17th, 2012 at 10:47 PM
Ozymandias did in fact did outplay Manhattan until the very end, when he miscalculated that Manhattan could be destroyed, which he actually accomplished, Ozymandias just didn't realize that Manhattan could recreate himself again. But taking into account Manhattan's power and his ability to see past, future and present, that doesn't really frown upon Ozymandias too much.
Loki never showed the raw intelligence and planning that Ozymandias had. FFS, Black Widow beat him at his own "mind ****" games.
True enough. I agree that Loki didn't really accomplish much in terms of manipulating. I just think it's unfair to compare Loki to Ozymandius simply because Ozy's situation was too much in favor of him whereas Loki had the odds stacked against him from the very start.
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Dec 17th, 2012 06:54 AM
