One of the few times I'll have to go against Thor. I do believe Thor is stronger and definitely has more experience, but Frank just has too many feats, both against fodder and primary fighters. Still will be a close fight though. Giving it to Frank 6/10
Good point. You've changed my mind. I now no longer know who wins. lol.
Based from what we know of Coulson, I'm pretty sure he doesn't throw around the words "some of my best men" lightly.
Why not people on that level? He showed comparable fighting ability to someone who was able to defeat an immortal mystical uber ninja. To me, Punisher and DD's final fight on episode 11 showed that the two were pretty much equal but, without any further factors, DD's reinforced gloves and armour give him the winning edge.
Problem with the quote from Coulson is it is from a pre-Avengers time. Can we definitively claim that the same level of training of the time would have been adequate to handle some of the more dangerous threats, like Inhumans, Super soldiers etc. they've dealt with since then. You have to take into account that SHIELD has evolved over that time as well, along with its operatives.
__________________ Never take life seriously. Nobody gets out alive anyway.
Last edited by TheVaultDweller on Mar 31st, 2016 at 05:57 PM
And Thor defeated May in H2H? If not, the point is irrelevant. We can't assign random SHIELD agents feats from others just because Coulson said they were his best, back before he even knew about Asgard, the Chitauri etc.
__________________ Never take life seriously. Nobody gets out alive anyway.
The time difference between Thor 1, Avengers and AOS isn't that far off. May, Ward and Bobbi would all have been full agents way before Thor 1 even came out. It's not like they were fresh grads from the academy.
So even though the SHIELD academy might have changed training tactics since Avengers, it doesn't really affect Coulson's team that much since they all seem to be experienced agents already.
Thor wins, easy. Even depowered He was wrecking people. Keep in mind he's a warrior with thousands of years fighting experience vs a guy that's lived one lifetime (not even). Frank is good, but it's gonna take more than Good to beat a guy as strong as Thor...because Thor is a great fighter too.
__________________ "Your mother was a venereal disease-ridden prostitute who was raped by the father you never knew and killed herself when she saw what an autistic phaggot you are.
So what about my comments made your ass so sore? Was it me calling you a phaggot? I think not." - Nemebro
Besides, I'm fairly sure that the people behind the MCU had an idea of how formidable they wanted Shield agents to be when Coulson made that statement
__________________ posted by Badabing
I don't know why some of you are going on about being right and winning. Rob and Impediment were in on this gag because I PMed them. Silent and Rao PMed me and figured I changed the post. I highly doubt anybody thought Quan made the post, but simply played along just for the lulz.
Point is, the older that quote gets the less it holds up against actual new screen feats, and you cannot definitively claim that those agents we only see during that one scene are as competent as the current roster on Agents of Shield are shown to be. Not based on a single 5-year-old movie quote.
Also, problem with quotes and reputation is they work for the other side too. We know Nobu was widely renowned among the hidden assassin world of guys like Stick, Elektra etc. as one of the most dangerous guys around. And we know that Stick & Elektra know what they are talking about. And we know that Frank has shown the ability to hold his own in a fight against a guy who can beat Nobu. So if we are going by reputation and comments from characters, guys Frank has been shown comparable to has just as much going for them as the fodder Thor beat. Unless comments only count when Coulson says them.
__________________ Never take life seriously. Nobody gets out alive anyway.
The MCU is a shared universe. We can't simply discount feats from previous movies just because they're "old". And though I don't think the agents Thor beat were necessarily as good as May or Ward, almost all SHIELD agents we've seen have been competent fighters. Even Skye who isn't even a fully trained agent kicks ass. What more agents that Coulson considers some of his best?
And yes, it's perfectly reasonable to use reputation for Daredevil as well and how dangerous Nobu is. Difference is, Daredevil fought Nobu 1 on 1 and had hell of a time beating him. Thor took out those SHIELD agents with impunity. Even if those SHIELD agents were only as good as Agent Triplette for example, that's still an extremely impressive feat.
Main difference again, and where we differed in the BW/Thor thread, is that I hold actual screen feats above spoken dialogue. Maybe they are as skilled. Keyword is "maybe". Frank actually has screen feats that trump anything any of those agents did, plus the whole rep thing with DD/Nobu. And once Daredevil thought Nobu had killed Elektra, and finally decided to take the kid gloves off for a change, he took Nobu out quite quickly. But I doubt we will agree here, as we didn't last time, even after like 5 pages.
At the end of the day, I think it is very likely that a guy who was described as being notable and elite, even among special forces elite, would more than likely be comparable to some of those guys, just based on pure logic. There isn't really enough evidence either way to suggest that any of them are vastly more skilled (though Thor does have a big XP edge) than the others (and I am talking about Frank, Thor and the fodder, not the main AoS cast). So I am trying to compare their other feats of striking power, damage soak etc. because I think that will provide a better answer.
Fact is we have seen Frank's hits hurt a suited up Daredevil, and we know just how tough he is. We have also seen the brutal kind of damage Frank can just shrug off. Hell, just based on overall toughness, I'd argue Frank has Thor beat. Thor took the van hit, and it stunned him somewhat, and then got dropped by a tazer. Frank took the water tower/roof edge spine fall, and was totally fine and kept fighting. He even kept fighting after being tortured, having a hole drilled in his foot, and being shot. And it took multiple tazers, after getting tranq'd in the neck to drop him. I just have a really tough time seeing depowered Thor putting him down.
__________________ Never take life seriously. Nobody gets out alive anyway.
Last edited by TheVaultDweller on Mar 31st, 2016 at 06:33 PM
Frank smashed a dozen convicts in H2H and got the better of Daredevil on one occassion and stalemated him in others. Thor goes down after a good fight.
Guess we'll have to just agree to disagree. You're wrong about me though, I put emphasis on feats just as much as you. In this case, I take into consideration all the feats we've seen from every SHIELD agent and then average them out. It's not just Coulson's word, it's considering that pretty much every SHIELD agent we've seen has been a competent fighter, except when fighting vastly superior foes (like Cap).
Also, the way you interpret Thor taking out those SHIELD agents is that those SHIELD agents must not be that skilled for Thor to take them out as easily (at least that's how I understand your stance). To me, it just shows how much more skilled Thor is. So we both consider feats, we just have a different way of looking at it.
__________________
Last edited by FrothByte on Mar 31st, 2016 at 06:59 PM
My stance isn't that they are unskilled. I just don't feel that we can label them as skilled as the guys who, for the most part, have extensive actual onscreen feats, expanded upon by different writers, after the quote was made. But I don't believe the guys Thor fought were just useless goons. Hence why I have acknowledged multiple times that it is still a very good H2H showing for Thor.
But for the sake of this thread, Frank having both the onscreen feats, military reputation, and shown comparable skill to other notable characters, is enough evidence to me to argue that his H2H skill level isn't that far behind Thor here. Consider he is fast and skilled enough to match a guy who can casually catch an arrow fired at the back of his head, and hits hard enough to knock him down with a few blows, despite DD wearing armour.
So I am trying to take the other things into account as well. And I think Frank's overall toughness will see him be the last man standing after a long and extremely brutal fight. I am talking a fight that would make the one Thor had with the big black SHIELD agent look like a brief Sunday afternoon stroll.
__________________ Never take life seriously. Nobody gets out alive anyway.
Just because you're a convict doesn't mean you're a good fighter. The fact that they felt they needed to team up on Frank tells you quite the opposite in fact. They were punks and he Punished them for it.
Thor on the other hand took out a squad of Shield's most highly trained fighters. And he did it with relative ease. Sorry, but Thor wins here. Punisher is awesome, but he can't contend with Thor.
__________________ "Your mother was a venereal disease-ridden prostitute who was raped by the father you never knew and killed herself when she saw what an autistic phaggot you are.
So what about my comments made your ass so sore? Was it me calling you a phaggot? I think not." - Nemebro
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