Gender: Male Location: home, playing Guilty Gear Xrd.
Boros vs. Nanatsu no Taizaiverse
Boros' armor has been broken and so his true power has been released (not that we even know exactly how tough he was with the armor on...).
He goes up against the whole verse, low tiers to top tiers in one scenario, then against the whole verse at once in the 2nd scenario.
Meteoric Burst is only allowed as a last resort.
He has only basic knowledge of the NnT world (demons and their common abilities, giants, etc.) and the characters of NnT only know that he's powerful. No prep time otherwise for anyone.
Gender: Male Location: home, playing Guilty Gear Xrd.
Dark Snow, maybe yeah. Full Counter only works against non-physical strikes though.
Given his performance against even a casual Saitama (whose punches prior to that fight could one shot villains around City level), I'd say Boros' strength and speed exceed most of the characters in NnT. So I doubt they'd take him out THAT fast.
Again, as I said too, Meteoric Burst is allowed as a last resort too.
Boros' most impressive ability though, Planet buster roar cannon, is non-physical, and would demonstrably be turned back on him at even greater power. Which would leave him severely wounded and weakened.
And yeah, I'm not arguing that Boros isn't stronger and faster than most of the NNT characters. But baring Meteoric Burst, someone like Meliodas should be at least able to keep up with him. Before gaining his full power back, Meliodas achieved some ridiculous feats. Like dodging a punch from the Metal Giant, moving miles away, and defeating four members of Dawn's Roar in less than 0.2 seconds. He also dodged, full countered, and even outran lightning from Gilthunder. He also tanked mountain busting attacks from Diane several times in the series. Keep in mind, this was all accomplished without the use of his demon form, OR his full power. When he regained his full power btw, he became 10X faster, stronger, more durable, etc. And his demon form was so powerful that he was able to destroy an entire country just by transforming. At Meliodas' full power, he can contend with Boros in terms of strength and speed. Meteoric Burst should overwhelm even Meliodas though.
However, Meliodas also has regeneration, like Boros. So they should be good stalemates for each other, until Boros goes Meteoric Burst, and physically overwhelms him.
Unless Ban is there as well.
Ban also has similar feats to Meliodas. Before Meliodas regained his full power, Ban and Meliodas arm wrestling destroyed a barrier that could contain 10 Tyrant dragons without receiving a scratch. A single Tyrant dragon can town-bust, btw. Not to mention that Ban also has one of the most hax abilities in all of anime. His "Snatch" ability lets him steal an enemies power and use it against them. This allowed him to overwhelm even Galan, WHO WAS LITERALLY 10X MORE POWERFUL THAN BAN. If Ban used snatch on Boros, it would make Ban powerful enough to overpower him, while also making Boros severely weaker. This would make him completely unable to keep up with a tag team of an empowered Ban, and full power Meliodas.
And Boros' one and only trump card, the planet buster roar cannon, would be deflected back at him, at greater strength, by Meliodas' full counter.
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"Why is everybody so ****ing stupid?"- Kim Jong Il, Team America.
Gender: Male Location: home, playing Guilty Gear Xrd.
That's only if they can force him to use it. Keep in mind, in his Meteoric Burst form, he was fast enough to pretty much destroy part of his own ship just from flying over the area and his strength was to the point where his kick knocked Saitama to the moon in just a few seconds (perhaps 3 or 4 seconds tops from the looks of things). That's well beyond anything shown in NnT so far.
Meliodas may have regeneration, but until we see more feats for it, it's clearly not up to the same level as Boros' regeneration.
Ban's Physical Hunt/Hunter Festival may tax Boros' abilities, but it evidently doesn't affect his durability given how Galan had still been able to withstand an amped Ban's strikes despite the increase he got at the time.
Also, another thing: Boros' speed. It may not really seem like much at first, but the fact he was able to keep pace with a casual Saitama indicates his speed to be far above the likes of anyone else in OPM and in Meteoric Burst, his speed had increased to the point where he could catch up with Saitama even after knocking him around and considering his strength at that point...
Yes, he's tremendously fast. Someone like Sonic couldn't come near Saitama's speed, while Boros seemed at least equal to Saitama's non-serious speed, possibly ahead.
Gender: Male Location: home, playing Guilty Gear Xrd.
I wouldn't maybe say ahead, considering Saitama backpedaling in ep. 12 still allowed him to stay ahead of Boros (who was running) until Boros used his energy to speed up. At any rate though, Boros is likely the fastest opponent Saitama had ever gone up against.
The kick to the moon thing is extremely impressive, but there are also feats in NNT of a character like Galan jumping from one country to another, and he's still considered nothing against a full powered Meliodas. This feat isn't as impressive as the moon kick, but its at least similar to it. At least on par with it. And that Galan is nothing compared to a full powered Meliodas. And that's not even considering Demon form.
I can agree with that. I wasn't saying that Meliodas' regeneration was superior to Boros'. In fact, I would say Boros' is probably a lot better than Meliodas', but that could change once Meliodas gets some legitimate regeneration feats in Demon form.
Uh, yeah, it makes sense that Galan could withstand Ban's attacks. Not only does Galan have regeneration, but he also hadn't used his full power, and Ban doesn't have attacks other than physical strikes. The point though is that Ban could use physical hunt to take Boros' power, and make himself roughly equal to Boros, if not slightly greater. And at that point, a full power demon form Meliodas would tip the scales enough to overwhelm Boros and get past his regeneration. And at that point, Boros would resort to his trump card, the planet buster roar cannon, and get it full countered back at himself. Even if he didn't though, Demon Meliodas has blaze magic which bypasses even Bans unlimited regeneration. So the tag team of Ban and Meliodas would put Boros down, simply by overwhelming him with their abilities working in tandem.
Yes, his speed is tremendous. But so is the speed of the NNT characters. And Ban energy correlates to speed, so Ban can steal that as well. Overall, I'd say this would come down to Boros facing off against two Full power Meliodas level character, while he himself is debuffed to that level. Meaning he'd eventually be overwhelmed, and lose.
This is a pretty fun debate though, so I'm looking forward to what you come up with next.
__________________
"Why is everybody so ****ing stupid?"- Kim Jong Il, Team America.
Gender: Male Location: home, playing Guilty Gear Xrd.
Agreed, his jumping to their location was impressive, but it took him roughly 72 jumps to do so. And remember, the TC's magical power was what was depleted from their imprisonment while their other stats (strength, willpower) likely remained exactly the same.
Hmm, I don't think Ban would be able to boost himself up to Boros' level even with Hunter Festival; it's been stated that he does have an unknown time limit for the move as well as a limit to how much strength he could absorb, since he was only able to take about half of Galan's strength while the demon was still only in his normal form.
Hmm, maybe so, but we can't be sure if his demon form automatically grants him better regeneration. It certainly speeds it up. Even if it did boost regeneration, I doubt it would be on par with Boros' just yet.
Same deal with speed; Boros' speed is likely above anything shown thus far in NnT (highest shown calc iirc was about Mach 277 for Gil's lightning and Meliodas dodging it and stuff) while Boros with his full power released had speed comparable to Saitama's moon jumping speed (sub-relativistic iirc as well). So debuffing him will only do so much. It'll take a lot of tag teaming and clever use of magical powers to take down Boros.
Likewise, I'm glad I thought up this thread. Hopefully whatever ones I make in the future will provide interesting things.
Gender: Male Location: home, playing Guilty Gear Xrd.
To be fair, they're usually running around from place to place while other characters around their level are fighting elsewhere, so it only really seems like they're taking a while to get anywhere.
And if it truly is the case that this speed doesn't apply to overall movement, the fact that it at least applies to their reflexes makes it good enough, yes?
Well a lightning bolt moves about 61.1 miles/second. Light moves about 186,000 miles/second. The speed of a jump is in noway connected to movement or combat speed, but I do feel like about 25% light speed would be a good estimate for Boros' speed. So let's say Boros can move about 46,500 miles/second. That would make Boros around 761 times faster than Gilthunder. However, Meliodas and Gilthunder have dodged and out sped lightning already in the series. Characters even weaker than them, such as Diane and Ban, have dodged or outsped Gil's lightning as well.
So claiming them to be the speed of lightning is a serious lowball. I'd assume that Gilthunder can probably move about twice as fast as lightning at least, which seems like a fair guess given how much stronger he is than the weaker characters who have outran or dodged it. Meliodas is about twice as strong as Gil, conversely. Meaning he's probably capable of moving about 244.4/second. But that's only suppressed Meliodas. Meliodas got roughly ten times more powerful after regaining his full strength. Meaning he could move roughly about 2,444.4 miles/second. This is only about 1/20th as fast as Boros can move at full speed. However, Meliodas also has demon form, which so far doesn't have a defined limit. He gets way stronger with Demon form, but we don't know how much stronger. If we assume he was about ten times stronger though in demon form at full power, that would make him about half as powerful/fast as Boros in his Aerobic mode.
So overall, yes, Boros would still be superior to Meliodas. But Ban would really decide this fight here. With snatch, he could steal about enough power from Boros to become as strong as Galan, if not even stronger. Galan was massively powerful, but not enough to make Boros lose this. HOWEVER, Boros also would get the equivalent of Galan's strength taken away from him, while Ban received it. This would definitely make the fight even enough for Ban's unlimited regeneration to eventually bring him out on top, as long as Meliodas was assisting him.
And again, Boros would have no knowledge of full counter. When he gets pushed into a corner by their tag team, and is quickly running out of stamina, he would resort to the planet buster roar cannon. Then Meliodas would reflect it back at him, even stronger. This likely wouldn't kill Boros, but it would injure him to the point where Meliodas and Ban could take him out easily.
And even without full counter, Meliodas still has blaze enchantment, which negates regeneration. So Boros would be fighting a peer of his, who has support from a Galan level character, AND his regeneration wouldn't work. While Meliodas has regeneration, and Ban has unlimited regeneration.
He really couldn't win this, even though he's undoubtedly stronger than Meliodas, who we saw as the strongest character in the series.
__________________
"Why is everybody so ****ing stupid?"- Kim Jong Il, Team America.
Gender: Male Location: home, playing Guilty Gear Xrd.
Hmm, valid science there, but even then I feel Boros' speed is even greater than what you mentioned it likely is. Again, his attacks in Meteoric Burst packed enough power to send Saitama crashing into the moon in just 3 or 4 seconds. And he was smacking him around in the anime and still able to fly and even somewhat overtake him despite the sheer strength of his blows, indicating his speed.
Furthermore, while the likes of Meliodas even when sealed is definitely faster than say a stepped leader, we have no idea by exactly how much other than that he has to at least be Mach 277 (prior to getting his full power back). Yes, with his full power back, his physical abilities have increased greatly, but while he is now TC level again (barring his demon form), we still have yet to see any NnT character demonstrate sub-relativistic level speed.
Yes, Ban's Snatch can sap strength and/or speed at his leisure from Boros, but it's a gradual process as opposed to outright. Hunter Festival would have a much more immediate effect, but again, the weakness I've mentioned before.
You also seem to focus a lot on just Meliodas and Ban. What about the other characters?
It takes about 1.28 seconds for light to travel from Earth to the moon, which is 238,900 miles away from Earth on average. So fine, let's assume Saitama took 4 seconds to reach it. That would still be less than 1/3rd the speed of light. And that's still not an accurate assumption for how fast Boros can move. Think about it, what is faster, someone pitching a baseball, or someone running track? The average sprinting speed for a human male is around 15 mph, for short periods of time. The average pitching speed however, is around 65 mph. That's 4.3 times greater than the average sprint. Applying that to Boros launching Saitama, a better estimate is that Boros is roughly 0.075% the speed of light. Leaving Boros with an average movement speed of about 13,889.5 miles per second.
So going by the calc I just gave for Meliodas, that would actually make his full power demon form FASTER than Boros in his Anerobic form. That's without even needing to consider Ban being present, and sapping his strength/speed even further.
And PLEASE don't make the bigfoot argument here, just because I'm proving you wrong. We don't need to see something in an anime for it to be true. NNT simply hasn't gotten to any fights in the series where the characters have had the opportunity to show those kinds of feats, as every fight recently is an utter stomp, given the nature of the power levels that the characters are currently achieving. Meliodas got 10 times more powerful, so we scale our calcs by that number. It's that simple.
Okay, but as I've indisputably proven, Ban and Meliodas are both powerful enough to hold out against Boros long enough for Ban to steal enough power to make him weaker than Meliodas, not to mention the fact that I've just proven Meliodas' speed to be even greater than Boros'.
And I'm focusing on Meliodas and Ban here because they're the characters we've seen the most feats from. The main reason though, is that I know Ban and Meliodas could handle Boros by themselves. Them as a tag team would overwhelm him, and eventually they would prove the victors, as per the reasons I've just given.
__________________
"Why is everybody so ****ing stupid?"- Kim Jong Il, Team America.
Gender: Male Location: home, playing Guilty Gear Xrd.
Again, great science.
That said, if the numbers in NnT truly are the crux of things, then why was it that back during the Byzel festival, Ban was noted to be faster than a sealed Meliodas (shown in one panel to throw about 6-7 punches vs. Meliodas' one in the panel below it) despite his strength stat likely being noticeably lower than Meliodas? While rounding up certainly gives us a clear idea as to how much stronger/tougher/faster they are, the power levels can't always be trusted.
While it's certainly true we don't have to see it to really believe, it helps solidify things for certain. We could argue/debate and make calcs as much as we want, but we'll never know for certain until it happens in the story itself. Not trying to bigfoot here or anything, merely trying to stay focused on the feats currently showcased.
Then what about the likes of Gil? Or Howser? The other Sins? Dreyfus, Hendricksen, etc.?
Ban had his snatch ability long before the Byzel festival. We just hadn't been introduced to it yet. So it's very possible that Ban used Snatch on him, and we just didn't know it at the time. And even if he didn't, the other rational explanation is that Ban simply wore Meliodas down, because Ban has infinite regeneration, and Meliodas only has a limited regeneration in his demon form. There are two very likely explanations to your little problem.
Okay, and the feats are that full power Meliodas is 10 times more powerful, i.e. faster, than suppressed Meliodas. And Meliodas while suppressed is twice as powerful/fast as Gil, who is conversely about twice as fast as a bolt of lightning. Making suppressed Meliodas roughly 4 times the speed of lightning, which is 244 miles/second. Meaning that full power Meliodas could replicate any of suppressed Meliodas' feats, 10 TIMES GREATER. Meaning he could move approximately 2,440 miles/second.
The same way that Superman gets about 10 times stronger when he sun-dips, and could conversely fly about 10 times faster than before, although we haven't EXPLICITLY been told that he can move about 9 times FTL with a sun-dip.
Use simple logic bro. I'm even doing all the math and science here for you. The numbers don't lie. It's a simple fact. If statements are given in a series, and AREN'T hyperbole, then they are treatable as facts. Just like how in Allstar Superman, Superman was STATED to be able to lift 200,000,000,000,000,000,000(quintillion) tons with one hand. There is nothing in the world that weighs 200 quintillion tons, and that's a very low approximate weight for a planet, but it wasn't a planet he lifted. He was pushing against a metal piston, in a lab on the moon. Going by your logic, the feat is moot because it was based on a statement.
The author wouldn't put it there without a purpose. So your entire argument here boils down to, "I don't like that, so I'm going to ignore it.". You might not be doing it on purpose, but I have proven without a doubt here that Meliodas and Ban could tag-team Boros, and defeat him at his strongest. The other NNT characters along with them would be overkill.
A better fight would be... I don't know, but not anyone from OPM that's stronger than Boros. Garou and Saitama would murder-stomp the NNT verse.
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"Why is everybody so ****ing stupid?"- Kim Jong Il, Team America.
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Jan 12th, 2016 05:28 PM
