Batdude's Match #5: Leonidas/Galan007 vs. Kris Blaze/KM
Team Leonidas/Galan007:
Thor: Leo
Nate Grey: Both
Walter West: Galan
vs.
Team KM/Kris Blaze:
Shaman/Talisman II: KM
Loki: Kris Blaze
Captain Comet: Both
The battle will take place on Europa with a breathable atmosphere.
Prep Time:
- Each team will have access to a "team lounge" measuring 15x15 meters with a couple of couches, satellite tv, refrigerator, washroom, and an assortment of snacks and drinks for 5 minutes prior to each fight where they can use their prep time. . No extending of that prep time via any means (ie speed force or time manipulation).
I haven't been contacted, so I assume I'm not a judge for this. I'll be reading it regardless, though, as it should be a good match. Good luck to both sides.
We come to the issue Thor actually negating magic with Mjolnir against Juggernaut. What he clearly did was negate all incoming magic. Otherwise, surely the Juggernaut would have reverted back to Cain Marko. All of the Juggernaut’s powers are derived from magic. If this hammer of Thors truly did negate all magic within, then Juggernaut would be powerless. He was however not powerless, he was simply without his force field.
Let us not forget that the Wooden Viking (This guy was OK'd by Bats if he was not sentient) which Loki controls, this little badboy has a temporal vision. Why is this bad news for our opponents? Well, let’s just think about how much Nate’s force fields will do against this kind of attack. It won’t be able to a single thing about it. These blasts will undoubtedly strike our opponents:
1. http://i799.photobucket.com/albums/...feats/Wood2.jpg
Furthermore there is the case of you guys ”speed blitzing” us. How exactly is this going to happen? We are protected by an incredibly powerful force field, coated in Adamantium from the outside. There also happens to be the matter of you guys not really having any speed to speak of. Our good friend Captain Comet has put a serious hurtin’ on your speed with his telekinesis. Meaning that you’ll not move very fast, have to get through a ridiculously strong force field, deal with our illusions and somehow evade the gas globules/wooden Viking:
1. http://i799.photobucket.com/albums/.../Powersap-2.jpg
Loki also happens to be intangible and invisible, so it’s not like Thor would ever be capable of seeing him, let alone touch him. Touching him with those psionic shields seems to be a fairly stupid idea as well, considering that he can absorb all sorts of energy. I will let KM debate for Shaman’s already considerable absorption skills, and display Loki’s. In the second scan, Loki is near death.
1. http://i799.photobucket.com/albums/...ats/Absorb1.jpg
2. http://i799.photobucket.com/albums/...ats/Absorb2.jpg
Loki's spell speed
As I emphasized in our prep post and hope the judges will make note of, Loki's spells are all instant. Every spell cast should not take even a second. Be it telepathy, forcefields, animation or creation, we can see that it all happens instantly. In addition to the feats posted in our prep post, I will add a couple of more examples:
Some of you might be worried that the replicas of Mjolnir will push Loki and Talisman II over the set power cap, but have no fear. The abilities which it grants both of them are completely redundant. Talisman II and Loki are already capable of flight, energy projection/manipulation/absorption. The only kind of boost it grants them one to strength and durability. In fact, we don't even know if these hammers CAN manipulate energy. We just know that it adds a lot of str/dur/stam and returns when thrown. The magic in the hammer would undoubtedly feed Talisman II, which is the only boost worthy of note.
Summary
- They will lose most of their speed
- They can not make it past our defenses
- Our team is actually faster
- They are without Mjolnir
- Thor will be dumb as bricks
- Loki and Comet can absorb anything, should they make it to us
- We do not breach the power cap of herald + herald
- Our prep time is well within the limits
"Once the battle begins with Comet’s Flash level speed and superior intellect he uses his telekinesis to slow everything in the area preventing the opposing team from speed blitzing."
There has been a misunderstanding. It has absolutely nothing to do with manipulation of time. It's telekinetically slowing down his opponents. This is no more manipulating time than using TK to help your opponent move faster. Telekinetically restraining someone = slowing down time.
Gender: Male Location: Planning to take over the WORLD!
okey-dokey. let's see what there is to see . . .
first thing that needs addressing? Loki. let’s look at what they have loki actually doing in this match so far:
1. amps comet’s tp
2. creates ‘mjolnirs’ (lol more on this later)
3. amps talisman and comet again—physically this time
4. boosts luck (lol—again)
5. creates a scrying pool—seriously??? illegal in prep of course and what function does that serve in the match?? You don’t even have anyone looking at it during the battle! And we’re too fast to be seen in it anyway . . . overall, a very nice waste of loki’s limited power reserves though, so . . . THANKS!
6. reinforces a force field
7. somehow whips up ADAMANTIUM!!?? Huh?? C’mon . . . . not worth addressing.
8. THEN he whips up a—lol—WOODEN VIKING! Which he THEN grants power to AND makes . . . MAGNETIC!!? Sigh . . . more on THAT little travesty of a strategy in a bit . . .
9. AND THEN, after ALL that, he calls upon the wind spirits and tries to convince them not to listen to thor! Lol (like thor apparently cares what the wind spirits have to say . . .?)
10. as if all THAT isn’t enough, he THEN whips up a bunch of dupes! The same dupes I show just below this list
11. and just when you think loki must SURELY be done—he turns himself invisible and intangible!
12. AND then conjures up some death globes from . . . a martian volcano.
K
yeah.
Here’s a scan of loki battling surtur for what was only a few MINUTES:
And all he did was fire some blasts and make some dupes. And we’re supposed to believe he can do . . . even HALF of what you have him doing?? You can NOT be serious. No one who knows loki even a LITTLE bit will buy that he’s able to do half of that without being completely exhausted.
Even in his battle with seth in forgotten gods, he only managed to last for a brief time—seth even says loki’s resources are limited, and loki himself claims he has to be careful to choose his attacks carefully! And yeah yeah, seth was uber—not the point. Point is loki’s magical reserves are NOT very great. Nowhere near enough to accomplish half of what you’re having him do.
I’m begging you to show me ANY scans of loki casting anything CLOSE to this much magic on a continual basis. I’ve shown you what happens when he tries . . .
So, what have they done with loki my dear judges? They’ve completely burned him out even before the match starts! Lol and even if they CHOSE to burn him out compeletely, he STILL couldn’t do all those things!
By the start of the battle, LOKI IS COMPLETELY USELESS.
Let’s look a little closer anyway, at some of the things he was trying to do.
AMPING: a major LOL at the invincible SANDU!! loki amps him to the point where sandu has tk feats far greater than loki himself has ever shown! gotta love the golden age . . . anyway, regarding that amp, i know you're not saying he amps comet 1000x, sooooo, what ARE you saying? i think a more accurate gauge would be loki's amping of the silver surfer to battle thor. even adding his own power to the ss's was not enough to make ss clearly more powerful than thor--who was HOLDING BACK in that battle! so again--how much of an amp are we talking about? unquantifiable, and likely not very great. let's look at the other 'amping' instances you brought up:
hydroman--no proof he was ever amped. he did NOTHING that he couldn't have done prior to loki's 'empowering' him. he showed no greater control, or power at all. he was just smarter--which he admits after he is captured:
hyde/cobra--thor says hyde's strength was doubled and he says cobra was almost too fast for the eye to follow. again, they were amped, but not dramatically.
notice the characters that got the largest amps? the weakest beings. makes sense. in someone who is NOT powerful, the addition of loki's powers would seem HUGE. however, to surfer, loki's power would make a difference, but the difference wouldn't be nearly as great. so, how much of an amp would comet or talisman receive? Who knows! Not double, certainly (he didn’t double ss’s powers or even THOR’s powers when he amped him). Perhaps even more importantly: in both the ss and thor incidences loki actually granted a portion of his OWN power to them. He didn’t snap his fingers and amp them, so why should we believe he could amp people of talisman and comet’s level without dipping into his OWN power reserves? Answer: we shouldn’t. So we’re left with saying they logically received some amping, but not much, OR that loki weakens himself to grant them power. And amping would WEAKEN him ANYWAY, very early on in prep.
MJOLNIRS: you of course have scans showing that he whipped that hammer up out of thin air as opposed to prepping pool’s hammer? And regardless, creating and investing them with power would further serve to drain your magic early on in prep . . .
THE (ahem) “WOODEN VIKING” . . . the MAGNETIC wooden Viking . . . (honest to gawd . . .) first, I can only imagine the power it would cost him to create something like that. Second, the magnetic part—seriously???—is sooooo ridiculous as to barely be worth commenting on. In your scans, note that anything that somehow attracted the hammer was . . . METAL! (except for mags who IS a big magnet . . .) you expect someone—ANYONE—to believe you can magnetize WOOD??? Last I checked quanchi wasn’t judging this match . . . I can’t believe I’m commenting on a magnetic wooden Viking. Please don’t try and defend it. Just let it go. You’ll have a better chance to win if the judges respect you by the end of this . . .
DEATH GLOBES: oops, the death globes from the martian volcano MAY have ruined all chances at respect though . . . there’s a volcano on the battlefield?? News to me . . . you just randomly select ‘some volcano’ and make death globes fly from it?? Whew . . . beyond that—you say loki is tucked inside the forcefield!! So congrats on summoning the globes in there with you (since you also claim you can create them out of thin air lol!) and killing talisman!
And again judges, ask yourselves—how in HELL does loki do ALL these things and NOT utterly burn himself out when fighting for a few minutes and casting some dupes tired him out to the point of retreat!? He doesn’t of course.
Again, loki=useless in this match.
Moving on. A bunch of miscellaneous stuff:
POUCHES: Am I the only one who does NOT see any extra pouches being created?? First scan: coins dumped out. Second scan: smoke flies from pouch. Third scan: an allusion that Michael took his pouch to space and confusion over how it was in the room with alpha flight.
So . . . where are the extra pouches exactly? Where’s the proof this was an entirely NEW pouch that was created? Where’s the proof it has powers like the original? I’ve no idea what those scans were supposed to prove at all . . .
INVISIBILITY DUST/INVISIBILITY: Even IF loki wasn’t burned out and useless, invisibility would be useless as nate can see energy (see OP) and I LOVE that he goes invisible and intangible AND you said he’s hiding behind a reinforced force field that is lined with adamantium! Lol paranoid much? Least you have your death globes to keep you company! Lol
No crystallizing the liquids in our body—offensive matter manip
SLEEP DUST: We start 0.5km away from you. exactly how wide an area does this dust stuff affect? Regardless, with our enhanced perceptual speed we see everything you are doing in as though it were happening in slow motion and have AMPLE time to react to it in anyway we deem appropriate. After throwing his hammer thor could easily control the wind (which would be negated in any event) to push your dust AWAY from us. Thor has matched ZEUS in weather control! Proof your wind spirit=a skyfather’s level of power please? No? then thor wins. J
FLASH LEVEL SPEED: scans of comet’s “flash-level” speed would be nice . . . in particular I’d LOVE some combat speed feats that come close to rivaling the speeds we’re moving at.
TK SLOW-DOWN: first, no way you are overpowering nate grey’s own tk. Nate would be combating that the instant he felt the attack. He would at LEAST be able to negate it’s effect, but, given that nate’s mind is powerful enough, designed in fact to destroy PLANETS, I’d say he could do better, and simply reverse your assault. What’s more, seeing as how YOUR attack was allowed . . . nate could simply telekinetically freeze the entire battlefield—people, animals, dust--everything. Not slow. FREEZE:
Beyond that, thor is far FAR above cl100, and in his psi armor, walter is ALSO cl100. you have absolutely ZERO proof that his tk could work on people as strong and fast as we are—even if nate was NOT canceling the effect on his own.
So tk slow-down=fail
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Last edited by leonidas on Jan 27th, 2010 at 03:11 AM
Gender: Male Location: Planning to take over the WORLD!
Whew. That’s some crazy sh!t you guys tried to throw together . . .
So, our defenses.
HAMMER NEGATION:
I figured you bring up jugg’s strength as a way of getting around the complete negation. Fact of the matter is however, thor was only TRYING to negate the force field:
thor only sought out a way to cancel jugg’s ‘unstoppable’ nature. He only TRIED to negate his invulnerability. In this case, thor is going to negate ALL magical energy.
So, judges, what do we have? This is actually very easy. At 0.5km away our superior perceptual speed and nate’s psi powers (which we are linked through) allow us to watch what they are trying to do. once we’ve seen there is nothing of substance or threat, nate telekinetically freezes the environment—he wins the quick draw with comet due to his amped speed. Once everyone on their team is frozen, thor negates (or possibly simply absorbs) all the magic in the area, wiping out all forcefields. While the other team is frozen, it is far too easy for us to simply take them all out physically. Wm mad, psi-armor-amped, flash-level speed thor . . . wow.
Loki isn’t intangible or anything as they have completely rendered him useless in this match, so it’s only talisman and comet we need to take out. Loki’s spells would be negated anyway. Comet and talisman are both are frozen before they can even mount attacks. Their forcefields are absorbed and they are finished by cl100 walter and wm thor.
Oh, and if any resist, nate will simply extend his tp contact to the other team and drain them of all their mental energies, killing them via mind drain:
Tiring/Stamina
Loki is fighting to keep the universe from being destroyed. He wants to rule after all and not see it broken, so naturally he is GIVING IT HIS ALL. When he is fighting a serious battle like that, one would assume that he is giving it best, the guy was able to hurt Surtur after all. Surtur, who at the time was holding the twilight sword. Naturally an attack from a guy down in the herald category would weaken Loki.
He already does possess an incredible stamina and his magical resources were apparently vast enough to fully heal Thor, while remaining intangible/invisible and keep it up for another comic.
1. http://i799.photobucket.com/albums/...feats/Stam1.jpg
Do you yet require another incident of Loki using his powers several times during a comic? Very well. We have another incident where he does a number of spells. Chains, shape shift, travel, hypnotism+shape shift, matter manip, force field, transformation, reality warping, reality warping, travelling across the world with force field still up, reality warping, reality warping and then shape shifting at the end. NO SIGNS OF TIRING.
Hydro
Loki clearly powered up Hydroman, as he even said so himself. We can also clearly see that Hydroman was capable of taking a lot of punishment earlier and then Loki cancelled his spell, he was knocked out by a single punch by Wonder-Man. I already have ample examples of him amplifying other people. I just threw it out there as a 6th or 7th example.
Sandu
It is indeed true that Loki would not in a million years come close to amplifying Comet’s psionic powers a thousand time. It was a good ol’ fashioned case of hyperbole. What we cannot ignore however, is how strong Sandu became. He made chains so strong that Thor needed the belt of strength to break. Laugh and be disrespectful all you want, but it doesn’t change what happened. Look at how easily he manipulated stuff that weighted several thousands of tons. This takes Comet vs. Nate from a close call, to a definite edge in Comet’s favour. This is what I’m aiming for, not some huge upgrade, simply a noticeable one. This was not intended to take him up a level, but to be a reasonable boost.
Scrying Pool
This is there so that they can see what the hell is going on from inside the Adamantium dome. While they are all very capable telepaths/magicians, this is just to save them some energy. Loki’s fancy-backstory spell doesn’t require him to interact with the opponent. You yourself attempted to have Thor learn his team-mate of Loki in the prep.
Range
Yeah, are you doubting Loki’s ability to cast spells at a distance? The judges should realize how ridiculous this is simply by reading my initial post. But I’ll repost some of these scans. Scans who happen to speak for themselves.
Wooden Viking/Adamantium
Looking at what Loki is capable of, it should not take the judges long to realize how easily it is for Loki to magnetize plain wood. He granted the wooden Viking the ability to instantly regenerate. Have you looked at what this guy is capable of? Magnetizing wood when you can turn a tree into a tiger sounds pretty basic. Why are you laughing at the Adamantium coating? He has proven that he could create a team of sentient Adamantium coated opponents, and you’re claiming that a dome is reaching?
Silver Surfer
Oh how easily we forget. Surfer was powered down by Galactus at the time and weakened. Loki’s boosted must have been considerable, when we factor in how weakened he had been by Galactus. The barrier on earth is even mentioned earlier in the comic.
Mjolnir
Thor taking away his force field doesn’t mean that he can suddenly take away all of Juggernaut’s abilities. Juggernaut mentions how it’s all magic and Thor attempts to negate -all- magic. Clearly, it does not prove up to the task. But all of this is irrelevant, because Thor will lose control over Mjolnir. Also, hold on a second. I thought Thor already was in warrior madness? How is he going to be smart enough to try and negate magic? This tactic is ripe with flaws.
TK-Freeze
Yes, Nate is going to freeze them. Loki who can absorb all sorts of energy. Comet who is a superior telekinetic in this incident. The Shaman pouches who can absorb -anything- and the force field that Nate’s TK can not get through. All this from a scan where Nate freezes some snow and wildlife. Sounds reasonable, eh? You have Nate already doing many different things, your stretching him and tryinh to stop Comet who as mentioned several times has been given a boost in power would not be an easy task. First you wouldn’t know its coming until its to late, and then you would have to counter the initial TK press. Even if your dealing with this, which you wouldn’t be the wind would overtake your team. Nate simply doesn’t measure up here, I’ll let KM elaborate further on this.
Claims of offence:
Yeah. You do not have Mjolnir, and even if you did it would be Mjolnir against Loki and 2 Shaman pouches. That’s just plain ridiculous to claim that you have the advantage there. Better yet, how are you guys faster? Comet can compete with Flash and his speed is doubled. Loki can see and intercept telepathy and radio waves, that’s light speed. You can’t even get past our defences, who happen to be virtually immune to physical attacks and attempts at ”vibrating your molecules”.
Summary
- Loki has cast tons of spells several times.
- Even when tiring after fighting a Skyfather/being attacked by him, he’s down for a minute max.
- Thor won’t have Mjolnir, let alone be smart enough to use it.
- They have not mentioned how to get through our shields.
- Nate can’t compete telekinetically or telepathically.
Gender: Male Location: Planning to take over the WORLD!
uh-oh . . . . going with the "well, he's REALLY trying this time" defense, eh? never a great strategy.
all loki did was run around and distract surtur in that battle. the point is, loki was too drained to continue the battle, tried to run and was casually shot from the sky.
wut? not sure where this healing instance comes from. i thought the scan would show it but it really shows . . . nothing? loki fighting a mortal thor? physically?? irrelevent i'm afraid since it's the use of magic that drains him . . .
as for the other scans showing him using multiple spells--come on . . .
first, you've SKIPPED some! so we don't even know for sure how much time those series of scans are stretched over! one thing is for DAMN sure--it wasn't 5 minutes! and even if it were, you're STILL having him do more in this battle!
next, he didn't "create the chains!" the hell? he used some herbs to spy on thor and SAW HIM ALREADY IN CHAINS!
also, in none of those feats was he pouring power into anything--no amping, or granting of power. nothing you showed comes CLOSE to comparing with what you want him to do IN 5 MINUTES.
nice golden age drivel though.
a close call? nate's mind was designed to destroy WORLDS.
close? i don't really think it was very close. even assuming comet MIGHT match him, it would take all his focus, rendering him useless and defenseless against either thor or walter whose speed would remain undiminshed as nate would balance comet's attack out.
lol serves to FURTHER burn out loki's power reserves!
no. i asked about the DUST's range. still haven't seen a scan showing its area of effect. doesn't matter anyway. why?
first, before you CAN cast it, you're tk frozen.
secondly, thor negates it even if it IS cast!
finally--were we actually INSIDE your forcefield with you, maybe THEN we'd be worried! lol you guys are really good at doing our job FOR US! first loki casts the death globes INSIDE the forcefield/adamantium--now talisman puts loki to sleep because HE casts a spell INSIDE the forcefield/adamantium! sound strategy gents. good thing for you at least that there is no proof loki CAN create adamantium! lol
oh, and one last thing--the dust wouldn't bother nate anyway who has become immune to, well, damn near everything . . .
no . . . it sounds ludicrous. let's say for one nano-second anyone actually BELIEVES this magnetic wooden viking disaster--when mjonir was attracted to it, what exactly do you think would happen to your viking once mjolnir hit it?? you're still laboring under the idea loki could somehow grant this thing all these uber abilities AFTER performing all those other spells! never happen.
and recall: MJOLNIR IS SPINNING AROUND CANCELLING MAGICAL ENERGY IN THE BATTLEFIELD!
really? scans of him creating this adamantium-coated team?? the avengers statues you are referencing ALREADY existed! loki just brought them to life. he's NEVER created adamantium. your claim is entirely misleading and does not--IN ANY WAY AT ALL--support the idea he can whip up adamantium at will.
really? i've my thoughts on this issue. PROVE ss was depowered when loki amped him. good luck with that. and if he was as weak as you claim, that's really BAD NEWS for you, since that 'weakened version' matched loki power level-for-power level! assuming you're right it doesn't say much for loki. and the boost STILL wasn't enough to push him past thor. and our thor is more than 10x as powerful!
what the scan shows is that he CAN take away what he WANTED to take away. and that power stemmed from a being who is beyond a skyfather. that he retained his strength is irrelevent.
lol
yeah, you're proof that he gets 'dumb' all of a sudden is what exactly? because he wanted to beat adam to death with his HANDS? please. he doesn't become an animal. he gets to the field, throws his hammer. hardly quantum physics . . .
lulz? setting aside for a moment his overall BURNED OUT USELESSNESS in this battle, loki (on top of everything else he's done) is now going to do something like absorb ambient telekinetic energy from the air? kidding, yes? i'm sure you've proof to support that idea . . .?
proof?
"anything"? you gotta stop saying things like that. is the pouch going to absorb telekinetic energy too? lol
negated by mjolnir or pummelled to rubble by thor and walter. do you realize how STRONG this version of thor would be?? a po'd thor--as a FROG--already effortlessly smashed through loki's forcefields and had loki scared out of his mind!
and the superpowered threnody. less reasonable than your scan merely SLOWING DOWN some NORMAL HUMANS and claiming you can slow down a flash with cl100 strength and a wm thor amped with PSIONIC ARMOR?? come on now.
AWESTRUCK. and i don't have to tell anyone that cable knows something about psi power.
he built the armors which i proved he doesn't need to concentrate on so they are meaningless. while the armor existed i showed him restructuring matter. he is also shielding our minds and has a shield. once he sees what is happening, we have him tk freeze everything. hell, REGULAR nate could do those things, forget about the shaman we drafted! see, we know exactly how bad it looks when you stretch a character too thin and have him try and do too much at once.
honestly--i can guarantee no one buys this--we have flash-level perceptual abilities. we can see, react and battle in hyperspeeds. hell, WITHOUT shared speed nate himself is capable of moving in PLANCK TIME (that's really REALLY small increments of time . . .)
and with his over "300 ways of seeing" we'll know what you do BEFORE you do!
our speed advanatge over you guys is overwhelming and inescapeable.
so you have a scan that shows thor can't override this spirit? cuz i've only ever seen ZEUS counter thor's control. regardless, thor could at LEAST counterbalance it again, negating the attack. though mjolnir's negation would keep the spirit from being summoned anyway (though why summoning a spirit is legal, i've no idea . . .)
loki=useless. scans showing multiple pouches?
proof of flash-level combat speeds?
lol
bats dodges lasers. bats>lightspeed? trying to attribute lightspeed combat and reactions speeds to loki is about the most ridiculous thing i've seen in this match--i mean it's no magnetic wooden viking, but it IS close . . .
your forcefields are negated. if not, we just wait for you to come out of hiding (if you're still alive in there! note judges--no further mention of 'death globes . . . lol) or pummel them to nothingness. oh, and immune to physical attacks, are you . . .?
sure, over lengthy periods of time. NEVER in the quantity and of the magnitude you're trying to pass off.
we said he throws it away.
so, yeah. thanks to a comedy of errors and an exhausted loki, due to being simply overpowered and far too slow, due to the fact that we have logically countered every single one of their attacks, we win this rather handily.
Not a whole lot for me to address that leo has failed to, but here goes…
First off, you guys assuming that Comet would be able to track our team’s movements simply because Superman was able to is… No good. Why? Because Superman only tracked Walter’s normal “stridespeed” (as the scan you posted in the OP clearly states): http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l...11/jla03304.jpg
ie. He essentially tracked Walter as he was jogging. None of our speedy fellas would be moving casually like that, so visually tracking them is out of the picture.
Furthermore, after Thor has (albeit momentarily) negated the battlefield’s magic, Walter would be free to blitz Talisman uninterrupted, while Nate and Thor are dealing with the others – and the best part is… Talisman would have no way of absorbing his non-magical onslaught. And remember, this wouldn’t be a standard Flash level blitz. This would be a Flash level blitz carried out by a being with Hulk-level strength (thanks psi-armor.) I can’t see Talisman dealing well with that type of assault.
Additionally, if your team attempts to throw out any ‘frog-dust’ or chloroform gas it would easily be dispersed, and/or redirected back at your team via a simple arm-whirlwind from Walter. Easy stuff for him.
As for Thor “throwing his hammer away and fighting with his fisticuffs”…. C’mon. Sure we can look exclusively at the 40+ year old Thor vs. Him battle -- OR we can look at the multiple/more recent showings a berzerker rage/WM Thor has, which depict him utilizing Mjolnir against his opponents, most enthusiastically. Your call.
As far as Loki simply whipping up Mjolnirs – I sure would like proof that he can A.) do so completely on his own, and B.) that he can do so within the 5 minute prep period. Furthermore, in the very same issue in which Loki gave DP a false hammer, Thor later commented that DP’s hammer was more then likely the same false/powerless hammer created by Harokin, that he’d faced earlier in his career: http://img682.imageshack.us/img682/3831/thor1.jpg
Heck even if you cross-reference the issue numbers the writers gave us in that scan to correlate with Thor’s comment on the fake hammer, you’ll find that the hammer itself didn’t have much (if any) noteworthy power of it’s own. I mean my god, Loki had to add simple abilities to the hammer, just to make it more believable (ie. It returning to it’s owners hand after being thrown, along with the ability for it to ‘fly’.) It was not powerful, nor did it instill great power unto it’s wielder. Not at all.
I would also like to see proof that Loki is capable of producing as many powerful spells as you having him doing in your prep period/outset, simultaneously. Because the way I see it, you’re stretching Loki WAY too thin. The way I see it, he’s going to be burnt out LONG before even half of these spells are pulled off. And even if he could pull it off (which there is no proof to support mind you), how are his spells going to hold up to Thor’s magical negation over the battlefield?
I’d also like to see definitive proof of this multiple pouch making deal you keep talking about (not that it matters much anyway.)
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In short:
We have the ability to cancel out/absorb anything the other team can dish out.
We have an obvious strength/power edge (WM thor + psi-armors… C’mon.)
We have the obvious speed edge (flash level all around.)
We have one of the most powerful proven psi’s in the game (whose perceptions would be further enhanced by the speed lend.)
They have Loki (spread so thin he looks like a piece of paper), Talisman whose seems to be a bit too hyped, and Comet who quite frankly doesn’t stand a prayer on his own.
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"I am tired of Earth. These people.
I am tired of being caught in the tangle of their lives."
X-Man/Dark X-Men scans
First off why are you using Dark X-Men scans as evidence for Shaman Nate? You have to prove he is the same powerlevel as he was before his death or those are pointless. You also neglected to comment on when he was stealing the covenants telepathy it augmented him, meaning he is definitely not his original self making those feats you posted...worthless http://img704.imageshack.us/img704/...kxmen003001.jpg
*scratches his head* Did you not read the scans? The pouch their holding in the headquarters and the coins fall out is the duplicate pouch as Shaman when he was talking to Sasquatch made exact temporal copies of the original Alpha Flight and those are the coins as they were plucked from the timeline of Alpha Flight #12 (Vol.1). Here are the next scans showing he made EXACT copies of Alpha Flight. So yes there were two medicine pouches there one in space and one with the scans below and yes it would be exactly equal to the original pouch as it is the original pouch.
1. http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d...ht/scan0020.jpg
2. http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d...ht/scan0021.jpg
3. http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d...ht/scan0022.jpg
As much as the wind spirit wants to disperse it and with Comet’s telekinesis the options are limitless. Seriously, you would not be able to escape this as you truly haven’t put up defenses to stop it. Also as mentioned the wind spirit can travel thousands of miles in less then a minute so a distance of 0.5km would be nothing for it, and that’s nice but you are still undergoing the TK slow down and with Talisman and Comet’s speed upgrade you would not have time to react. Your overstating your speed, especially when you have been hindered yourself. Also you have Thor throwing away his hammer far to much, and your trying to make it do multiple things at once…it can’t and how is he going to be doing all these tricks especially in Warrior Mode which as noted makes him less intelligent. In addition the Hammer as mentioned by Kris is completely out of commission regardless, so not sure where your using it for. Finally why do I have to prove the windspirit is skyfather level when its just a wind attack? a wind attack that Thor would not know is coming and is fast enough to reach the team before they could react accordingly. This isn’t weather manipulation so your example doesn’t work.
If you wish to debate Talisman’s spirit control? I wouldn’t as here Talisman takes control over the Great Beasts, which are elder gods. Even Tanaraq one of the weakest beasts actually gave the Wrecking Crew such a power-up, thrashed Beta Ray Bill with ease.
1. http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g...Flight38-18.jpg
Here Comet catches up to Sinestro who ran away into space and he did it instantly. Just prior Comet had to catch a skyscraper that Sinestro knocked over, reset it and then go after him.
1. http://i225.photobucket.com/albums/...lains_05-16.jpg
Uses his superior reflexes easily ko’es Super Woman who is Wonder Woman’s near (at times is) equal. We all know how fast Wonder Woman is…near Flash’s speed.
1. http://i225.photobucket.com/albums/.../SSOSV14-14.jpg
You have Nate already doing many different things, your stretching him and trying to stop Comet who as mentioned several times has been given a boost in power would not be an easy task. First you wouldn’t know its coming until its to late, and then you would have to counter the initial TK press. Even if you’re dealing with this, which you wouldn’t be the wind would overtake your team and put your team to sleep. Why does destroying a planet equal TK power? Does that make Superman a potent telepath that can reverse energy attacks? No, not sure why you made that comment especially when Comet has beat planet busters himself even pre-upgrade.
Sadly your freeze tactic wouldn’t work as a) Comet is a superior telekinetic and was given a boost in this battle b) Nate did it in a localized manner, wouldn’t work here in this battle, especially with faster, stronger more versatile foes c) Comet did it in an entire area, show me X-Man can cover a range and do that tactic. As everything that froze was halted in his vicinity, while Comet’s wasn’t.
In addition if you wish to go that route all Shaman has to do is say “shush” and your frozen. You believe Nate will be quicker to do that then Shaman who just says one word and who’s speed was augmented and with Nate being trying to do all your little tricks and “trying” to fight Comet. No dice.
1. http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d...ht/scan0014.jpg
You should know better to avoid context, Talisman I just suffered brain damage and was struggling even to walk. The reason she got to that point is she absorbed a universe in her head. Yes an entire universe in her head little bit more impressive then you’re apparent Nate the planet buster.
What Nate did there was time manipulation and as mentioned was amped at the time so that's a no-no.In addition even Comet prior to his countless upgrades plans 300 moves ahead. So no your not going to suprize Comet or his teammates who he is mind-linked with.
1. http://i267.photobucket.com/albums/...es2/SA03505.jpg
Summary
-Dark X-Men scans are banned and you posted those scans twice even neglecting to mention he was amped in them. Takes place out of time? That's time manipulation as he was showing in the same issue he can manipulate time, which is ultimately a banned tactic.
-Shaman can indeed create two pouches
-Sleeping dust can be dispersed as much as needed with the wind spirit and Comet's TK
-Comet can go lightspeed and is just as fast as Flash
-Talisman or Comet could say "shush" and freeze you in your tracks and Nate's freeze tactic won't work
-Shaman karate choping Talisman I was taken out of context, while Flash getting ko'ed by a kid isn't.
Edited at Mungi's request.
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Last edited by Badabing on Jan 31st, 2010 at 09:27 PM
Battle speed (the 'zig-zag' type of speed the combatants would be utilizing against one another in this match), and straight line travel speed through the vacuum of space (what Comet did in those scans) are two completely different things.
Having said that, show me some battle speed feats Comet has that are =/> Wally, and I might agree that he could at least compete with our team's speed. Until then, we are going to run circles around you fellas.
ie. Wonder Woman-esque speeds are nothing to Walter. Hell, he can amp other beings beyond that level of speed.
Not going to comment on boasts Comet made about himself.
C'mon, Mungi. Considering Walter is > Wally (confirmed) that single instance simply cannot be regarded as anything but PIS of the highest order. That said, there is no reason to address it any further.
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A few things:
-Speed-wise I haven’t seen anything substantial that would lead me to believe you guys can hang with us (same can be said about the overall power department.)
-Furthermore, you guys keep saying that Comet is a more powerful telepath than Shaman Nate (whose perceptions are also going to be greatly enhanced via speed lend) – I’ve yet to see any substantial proof of this either.
-The multiple pouches ‘tactic’ is… sketchy at best – as I saw nothing in those scans that stated Talisman had a plethora of different pouches.
-You’re still relying on Loki A.) having enough power to conjure all of these exotic spells at once, and B.) having sufficient stamina to maintain them for the duration of this match (another tactic I have yet to see definitive proof of)
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"I am tired of Earth. These people.
I am tired of being caught in the tangle of their lives."
Speedblitz and your team?
I have no idea why you would assume your team would be going so fast our team wouldn’t react especially with the upgrades we have given each other. The thing is you guys have neglected the fact Flash needs momentum to get any kind of serious speed. Here Flash had to run 1500 miles away from Grodd and then charged at him to build momentum. Our team > Grodd
1. http://i242.photobucket.com/albums/.../nightgrod8.jpg
2. http://i242.photobucket.com/albums/.../nightgrod9.jpg
Here Flash mentions if he doesn’t have momentum he can’t even run on water. So in short your team is not bullrushing anyone so all your plans going at superspeed…nuh uh. So that precious time you need to actually reach your top speed which would be hindered by TK slowdown, “shush” your momentum giving the wind more time then it needs to reach you and put you and your team to sleep
1. http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l.../Flash66p08.jpg
Yes and Comet has had several dealings with all of the Flashes and with his superior intellect would have no trouble calculating his stridesepped. Superman still easily tracked Walter’s so would there be much of a difference? No not at all. Who says he is just visually tracking him? His senses are metahuman and with his telepathy, the TK slow down or even Shaman (or CC) “Shush” freeze and the fact for a Flash to get any noticeable speed they need momentum to reach it far more unreasonable to say he couldn’t track them then not. They do not instantly go into lightspeed mode.
First off you’re using magic to cancel the guy whose power is to cancel magic and the presence of magic only makes him stronger? Yeah no. First off that tactic wouldn’t work at all, as the hammer would be gone and Warrior Madness Thor does not have the intellect to do these tactics, and the fact using magic against Talisman is a no-no. In addition, we still have defenses such as telekinetic shields that wouldn’t be cancelled out even if your attack would work (which it wouldn’t). Why would you say that? Piledriver punched a weakened Talisman in the gut with no shields and it only make her stronger and she/he has taken various other class 100 blows. So no that’s not reasonable in the least. In addition, as the scans I posted her blasts have shown to incinerate an alternate reality Thor.
Unlikely as first Flash wouldn’t even know it’s coming, so why would he instantly create a whirlwind? Not likely. In addition it’s not like it’s a tornado or anything so its even more unlikely Flash would counter the wind for no odd reason. Very unreasonable attack, and if you create more wind the wind that you created is another wind spirit and could be used against you. So no you are not redirecting or dispersing anything,
Indeed there are, and Comet has used his speed to fight Superman and various other speedsters. Comet has been in the business longer then Superman and others been born, he knows how to fight and it’s downright silly to say he couldn’t use his speed in combat situation when he himself has beat speedsters. Also once again not sure why you think your team would be at top speed right from the get-go as you wouldn’t due to the momentum problem.
That’s nice, but that doesn’t change the fact Wonder Woman has easily kept up with Flash and Superman on more then one occasion. It’s the same principle of Flash giving Superman speed to outrun a laser beam in space, yet we know their very close in speed nes pa? Does that mean Superman is much slower then Flash? No. Same principle as others lending speed to Flash so he could compete with Zoom. Just because you give someone a boost in speed doesn’t make them much slower.
What’s your basis her speed is nothing to Walter? Especially when Walter considers her a worthy speed rival (his words). Also let’s not forget how easily Comet defeated Super Woman.
Ignoring it won’t make it go away, especially the fact as noted Comet uses his lightspeed abilities to planet hop.
What does Wally have to do with this? That was Walter not Wally so no idea why you brought that up. In addition, if you wish to go that route Impluse has surprised Walter and even Jessie Quick and Jay has caught up to him countless times. The reason he was stated to be better was he could take away speed and vibrate through things without destroying it. Jay was most impressed that he could take away speed not his top speed.
Comet himself has been augmented, yet you guys keep avoiding that issue
Sketchy? Errr why? The scans even indicated he made a duplicate and the temporal copy of Shaman used the duplicate pouch, while the Shaman prime had his in space as noted. Not hard to understand, there were two copies of the original Alpha Flight running around at the same time. One in space, the other on Earth and that was all done by Shaman.
Summary
-Every single one of our members has been drastically augmented (in the prep post) to become stronger, faster, more durable giving them the edge in many of the matchups.
-Our shields are still in place and they have no means to counter and Flash cannot vibrate through.
-You wish to use magic to cancel magic against the very being who’s main power is to cancel magic?....oooook. The very presence of Thor, Loki and the various magical items are giving Talisman strength
-“Shush” freezes our opponents
-Our opponents would not be at top speed, they need momentum to reach it, and something which is going to be bad as the wind will overtake them and put them fast asleep
-Flash would not create a random whirlwind for wind as he would not know it’s an attack or what’s in the wind. -If we actually needed to, Comet and Talisman could instantly revive Loki to his full strength
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Last edited by -K-M- on Jan 31st, 2010 at 01:27 AM
Unofficial post
*"What’s your basis her speed is nothing to Walter? Especially when Wally (not Walter, that was a typo) considers her a worthy speed rival (his words)".
KMC Community Forums
Jan 25th, 2010 11:51 PM
kidding, yes? i'm sure you've proof to support that idea . . .? 
