I'm actually underwhelmed by your plan of attack frankly, you didn't compensate for the wide range of the drainer, and tried to liken
Solo to Pip the Troll in terms of teleportation. Your spot shield won't protect your character from the environmental disturbance the drainer emits, it'd be like trying to keep yourself dry while submerged in water with that single shield.
Spider-man's....actually, your amalgam's spider-sense will be on constantly since it's your supposed means of tracking. pretty sure that can't be a good thing for it's psyche considering unit01 is using teleportation as movement pretty much primarily.
^ Cute, but Spider-man wasn't badly hurt (Spider-man could have killed him if he was into that sort of thing, Spider-sense and all right?), nor will ANY of that be remotely possible while the drainer is active and creating a large area
you don't want to enter:
Sorry you were disappointed in my opening strategy PG. Because I'm thrilled with it.
I. Drainer Nonsense
1. PG doesn't have a scan of it working through any kind of thick material. I know because I both browsed his scans and also called him out on it in our earlier match. 25 meters is thicker than most buildings, wider than an average house, and there's no empty space in the middle. It's solid all the way through. It didn't work before, and I'm not sure why he thinks it'll work this time. So, PG spends most of the fight underwater firing the drainer at a giant ice block. Awesome.
2. There's also no evidence for it being omni-directional. It's a gun, you point it. So ignore the frankly false pictures he drew. They aren't scans, they aren't evidence, and they don't match the evidence.
3. Let's say you think the gun's affect can get through the ice (though there's no reason to). At the very least he's reducing its range and potency to the point of being worthless.
4. I will never be anywhere he can easily hit, and will always have the element of surprise because spider-sense will alert me to their teleports in time for me to either get away or attack them before they even materialize.
PG has one of two robot units teleporting around, and the other is harboring Pip/Harrow underwater. Frankly, a single Spider-Man punch would take the little one's head off...you saw what it was doing to Titanium Man, who can tank Iron Man attacks.
So basically, the robot teleports in, I know about it before it happens, and Pete takes his head off and crushes his body before he gets an attack off. People in the Invincible universe are not on the same power levels as Marvel and DC.
Now, precognition, by its very definition, means that you know something before it happens. Last week's Amazing Spider-Man quoted Pete as saying he had 2 seconds notice before a particular attack. You or I can rumble off a jump, a couple kicks, or 4-5 punches in 2 seconds. Spider-Man, who is (pre-upgrade) 40x human reflexes, can do dozens of things.
So if they try to teleport to me, the full brunt of my attacks will be brought to bear on them before they materialize. And anything they attack me with, be it a physical attack or pulse of some sort, will be swallowed by my spot-shield, which I made big enough to crouch behind and cover my entire body.
Environmental disturbance?! Erm, wut? Anyway, the drainer emits a pulse. Pulses travel in a single direction. I will swallow anything coming directly toward me into the shield. Will the other aspect of the pulse (the ones not hitting me) continue in a straight line like logic dictates, or defy reason by looping back around and hitting me in the back? Child, please.
Spider-Man wasn't hurt because it was Spot attacking him, who has human-level physical stats. You missed my point entirely. The point was to show that Spot can hit SM multiple times, who is WAY faster than your team, and that each of those attacks will be capable of killing you.
So...you're firing the drainer up into the ice, yeah? And you will have no way knowing if I teleport an attack below you that explodes you, gores you, etc. So what's stopping a spot from materializing under you bum and having a pumpkin bomb hurtle through it? Or any number of other attacks? Nothing stops it. Sorry, but you get pumpkin-raped.
Hey, you found some offense that wasn't the drainer. Congrats! (Judges, these are his only two attacks that I can see). Problem being, if "Unit02" is close to enough to my guy to use this, he's already dead, as explained above.
Spots + spider-sense = infinite initiative. Even if you only believe some of what I'm selling (I strive to justify all of it, however), my speed, senses, and mode of transportation and attack means that I will always dictate the terms of engagement. And in this match, that spells doom for the other team.
The drainer has a weakness. It only works on those that are superpowered. It did not work on Mockingbird, and only worked partially on Bucky because he has some physical augmentations to his body. Spider-Man is superhuman, Spot is as well.
Phil Urich is not. His entire power set derives from the suit and gadgetry. There is nothing to drain. http://marvel.com/universe/Urich,_Phil
The opening line under Powers: "Phil Urich has no superhuman powers or abilities."
So, absolute best case scenario for PG (which should be clear will never actually happen), and I'm still left with everything Goblin can do. And what exactly is that? Let's take a look, shall we?
The point being, all of these will be flung through spots to my opponent's location. Utilizing ranged attacks, I will kill him without physically engaging him.
Remember PG's best case scenario. I'm still left with Class 10 strength: http://img571.imageshack.us/img571/9184/001ig.jpg
And bulletproof durability to match. As well as the glider and all of my weapons. And the spider-suit, which will still respond to my mental commands.
Seriously, even if the drainer hit me (it never, ever will) I'd still be left with an amalgam that can beat them.
The drainer is a gun? since when? I lol'd for real, then face palmed.
You keep equating my characters to something Spider-man has faced when in actuality they are unique characters, that should be obvious.
"1. PG doesn't have a scan of it working through any kind of thick material. I know because I both browsed his scans and also called him out on it in our earlier match. 25 meters is thicker than most buildings, wider than an average house, and there's no empty space in the middle. It's solid all the way through. It didn't work before, and I'm not sure why he thinks it'll work this time. So, PG spends most of the fight underwater firing the drainer at a giant ice block. Awesome."
^ I honestly didn't remember that transpiring, meh. Thickness maters not when the issue is radiation. Water is simply not a useful means of shielding it, which is an understatement regarding the sheer power of the drainer. Again, Sentry was victim to it.
Defeating unit02 is okay with me actually, let's unit01 get you for sure since unit02 can't fly. You'd have to be next to him whole or in part to defeat him which puts you in the drainer's influence.
"Spider-Man wasn't hurt because it was Spot attacking him, who has human-level physical stats. You missed my point entirely. The point was to show that Spot can hit SM multiple times, who is WAY faster than your team, and that each of those attacks will be capable of killing you."
^ Drainer bud, you can only hope to fight one of my suits, the decoy.
Unit01's stronger anyway.
This post-for-post shit is annoying, it's mostly me rehashing the drainer someway when the scans say it all. Your guys can't touch my amalgam legitimately, plus the ice barrier is a big obstacle for you not me.
The meager ice thickness stopping radiation part was a funny one though, my old collage schoolmate that works with Greenpeace would love to hear that one.
- One big amalgamation
- SM and Spot collaborate to make a spot-shield (more on this in a moment)
- We'll be wearing GG's armor primarily, but SM's armor responds to thought and can form to his will. It will cover or uncover as needed to facilitate the various functions of either armor."
Kinda defeats the "Ben Urich is immune" idea, you amalgamated all of them together. Trying to keep his incorporation secret by not elaborating in your OP was kinda cheap, but whatevs. He's dead meat as he's combined with meta's.
Like hell it does. Robot was proven above that his remote automatons not only see for him, but he can finish sentences with them like they are him...well they are him (as he said).
GG piloting that glider with a remote is not the same nor close as effective for remote survaillence that say robot easily provides.
The ice barrier also makes using that glider to be useful against unit01 a joke. it's too slow at that considering Pip's teleportation and the huge ice that separates them that hinders your attacks, not mine.
Last edited by psycho gundam on May 8th, 2010 at 05:14 AM
I dislike mixing real-world science with comic books. The two rarely mix. But PG has insisted that his drainer affect goes right through the 25 meters of ice. The drainer affect is radiation (Pg's description of it, not mine).
"Layers of snow and ice of a thickness of 0.15–0.20
and 0.40 m absorb about 90 and 80% of solar radiation
coming onto the upper boundaries, respectively."
Let me reiterate the findings: 40 centimeters (laughably less than 25 meters) absorbs 80-90% of solar radiation. We're not dealing with solar radiation, but we are dealing with something that operates with a radioactive frequency. Therefore, the two are of a similar wavelength on the EM spectrum. Thus, it can safely be assumed that the entire portion of the drainer attack is being nullified by ice.
PG's rebuttal: his friend in Greenpeace and some unsupported speculation. I will await scans or logic to the contrary. As it is, he's made his only decent attack worthless, and I'm the only one that has produce evidence for my case.
II. Unsupported Assertions
- That the drainer can work through thick substances.
- That radiation is not absorbed by ice.
- That the gun can work underwater (hell, he may have just broken it).
- That he can detect my whereabouts as I constantly shift in and out of spots.
- That my attacks will not work against him, will not kill him.
PG was kind enough to post the scan above where a base human (Bobbi, Mockingbird?, Clint's wife) was unaffected by the drainer. Phil Urich, as before, gets all his powers from his suit. He is a base human. I do realize that we have a difference of opinion as to whether or not the drainer would affect my entire amalgam or not. I will let the matter rest and let the judges decide, because the matter has been exhausted in my eyes.
Suffice it to say however, judges, that even if you side with PG on this particular point (though I don't think you should) that all the fight's other advantages belong to me, and that I still win the match soundly.
IV. Spot Traveling
It occurred to me that most of Spot's fights occur at close range, and that the judges might be skeptical of him creating spots anywhere he wishes on a 3 square kilometer ice block.
Remember, the glider, my spider-senses, and advanced vision and targeting allow me to find him at all times. They're my eyes and ears. The rest is simply sending attacks through spots and staying as far away from him as possible.
Pumpkin bombs + glider + spot = insta-death. And I don't even need my character to be present for it.
Yer robot dies. Easily. The glider was never intended as more than a scout and a nuisance, and it is exactly that. Unit01 was intended to provide 1/2 of your team's meager offense, and I can destroy it effortlessly (see my post #1 for details).
You also underestimate my powers. What's stopping the glider from traveling through spots to aid it? Nothing. It's just as mobile, and much more useful than your pitiful pintsized robot.
Ok, we'll call it whatever you want. I was using gun because that seemed like what it was. Semantics aside, you've made it worthless.
We've seen the Sentry scan. It was from about 20 meters away, and nothing obstructed it.
You've posted NOTHING in response to my challenges, you've merely reiterated your own points. In a perfect world you'd drain me with no trouble. In reality, I'm never near you and you're underwater firing into an ice block.
Or lasers, or gas bombs, or metal pincers, or the glider that can impale you, or...you get the idea.
You want me to port next to you. But my attacks are the only thing that need to come through spots. I can be sipping margaritas on the other side of our ice island (3 kilometers away, which is unquestionably farther than your drainer affects).
Which is ironic, because this quote is something I could legitimately say to you instead. Except for the part about this being annoying. This sh*t is fun as hell.
Ah, and I forgot to add this to my writeup as I customarily do, but thank you in advance to leo and the judges for their time, and a good luck to PG (though a belated good luck this time due to my forgetfulness). I'm always thrilled when there will be a new tourney champ, and I think the match has been entertaining so far.
"Layers of snow and ice of a thickness of 0.15–0.20
and 0.40 m absorb about 90 and 80% of solar radiation
coming onto the upper boundaries, respectively."
Let me reiterate the findings: 40 centimeters (laughably less than 25 meters) absorbs 80-90% of solar radiation. We're not dealing with solar radiation, but we are dealing with something that operates with a radioactive frequency. Therefore, the two are of a similar wavelength on the EM spectrum. Thus, it can safely be assumed that the entire portion of the drainer attack is being nullified by ice."
^ Respectively was used properly, cause you must remember that to get to the earth's surface, the solar radiation first passes the Earth's Exosphere, Ionesphere, etc and is greatly reduced in harshness (hope that's the appropreitte wording). The remaining radiation that gets through is mostly thermal, ultraviolet, and colour spectral, the snow layer reflects a large portion and the thermal loses out against the lower tempurature and mass of the ice.
So... not sure why you thought that would suffice.
Also, as I've stated in my OP, unit01 will teleport accordingly to you attacking uni02, I never said it would remain under ice..... It just starts out there while the distraction (unit02) begins the fight. I already stated (also in the OP) that going skyward would result in fallowing via teleportation, so it's not my intent to stay there indefinitely. Unit01 will return after striking however.
Already addressed that above. The ability to teleport and my strategy to respond to the distress of unit02 whom will be sending information to unit01 all the time will seal that deal.
"- That the gun can work underwater (hell, he may have just broken it)."
It's within unit01, it's fine.
"- That he can detect my whereabouts as I constantly shift in and out of spots."
Your characters are being watched by robot unit02 whom you with to attack, and via satellite direct feed since robot uses them to keep tabs on his Teen team and then the guardians of the Globe, like he did here:
Of coarse unit01 will do that with 'pip's power and the drainer sapping your power.
"- That my attacks will not work against him, will not kill him."
Not in unit01 it won't, and he can teleport, and he's underwater.
Does the glider, pumpkin bombs and all that other stuff work underwater?
The only way you could know where unit01 is will be by spider-sense alerting you of an incoming attack, it's self defense (and is dubious as an effective deterrent considering the drainer is in play)
Simple as this, you can't claim to have 100% of all the powers of the three characters in one and not also claim they get 100% of the immunity of the human addition. Altered cells are altered cells. The fact that you have Spider-sense means you have Spider-man's powers and well....
Meh, you open a portal near unit01, the draining effect is still present and goes through the portal at the speed of light, have fun with that, if it even works in the drainer's presents that is.
Surveillance is robot's monopoly here, he has the whole area being watched and has unit02 as bait. You attack him, he relays the info back to the main unit and reacts accordingly. You're putting too much stock in Spider-man pinpointing where my main character is.
5) Glider can't function underwater, and unit01 will see you fly it into the spot and just teleport.
"You want me to port next to you. But my attacks are the only thing that need to come through spots. I can be sipping margaritas on the other side of our ice island (3 kilometers away, which is unquestionably farther than your drainer affects)"
Unit01's fallowing the amalgam (who can't stay in the spot dimension or that's self-bfr) under the ice via satellite surveillance.
The only "nothing" anyone can do is your team against the drainer + teleportation, and the arena is tiny.
You're partially right, but drawing incorrect conclusions from it. A fair amount of radiation does indeed get blocked by the atmosphere. High frequency radiation does cut through quite easily, but your rebuttal is beside the point entirely. It that does nothing to suggest that radiation can't be stopped by ice...you're just shifting the focus.
The following is page 8 of the report I cited earlier. This section is from the conclusions of the paper: http://yfrog.com/1gbasicj
The red box is the earlier highlighted quote. The underlined blue material discusses the wavelength spectrum that passes through ice, and it's diabolically small. 0.2W/m2 is the number quoted, while the spectrum that passes through without snow cover can exceed 100W/m2. I'm a layman in these matters, and so are you. But it doesn't take a genius to put these two together. A few centimeters of snow are capable of blocking out a psychotic majority of radiation wavelength types. And we're dealing with 25 meters of this stuff.
You're also confusing your types of evidence. Even if you were to prove my ideas wrong, it doesn't amount to positive evidence of your ideas. You also have your speculation vs. my evidence.
The ice absorbs the radiation. Period. The paper I quoted is dealing with centimeters of ice, not entire meters like we are, and it still debunks your plan. I'm not sure why you're still at this. You have no scans to support it, nor sound logic.
Judges, I hate having to make you read this stuff. It goes beyond comics. But when PG started with a suspect real-life physics description of why the gun would work through ice, I had to respond. I did my homework and proved him wrong.
The little one dies before he gets any information worth sending. I haven't seen a credible defense of him even living long enough to get an attack off.
I'm also curious how you plan to track me with satellites in a "driving, freezing rain" (leo's environment description) and while I'm porting through spots. Satellites aren't omniscient, but they'd need to be to follow me.
So you have no info, no locations, and you're hiding under an ice block.
I actually anticipated this response to "can the drainer work underwater" but I wanted you to say it in order to open up a new avenue of attack for me.
There's room enough inside Unit01 to store the gun. There's some excess room period inside the suit. Therefore, there's room for spots to be created. Funny, that. Close one door and another opens.
So I can attack him inside his Unit01 suit. Or open one hole inside it, and other in the ocean below. That's actually a viable tactic regardless of where he is: one spot in his armor, another in the ocean...short out the drainer with water.
So I'll ask again, can the drainer work underwater?
No. Actually the only ways I'll have to find you are the remote glider camera, Goblin's long-range heat-tracking sensors, Iron Spidey's ultraviolet, infrared, and zooming vision, and then finally spider-sense.
But anyway, I already explained how the 2-second notice Pete will have is enough for him to perform multiple actions. You or I can do 3-4 moves in 2 second, and SM's 40x us (pre-upgrade, so likely even more). I can hurl a gas bomb and pumpkin bomb where you'll materialize in a moment and jump through a spot to safety before you even appear.
So yeah, spider-sense. Even if it was all I have (it's not, as shown throughout this thread) it's more than you can account for.
A few of these supplement earlier points. Others are just to more fully explicate my powers.
A rough idea of what my spot shield can do: http://img215.imageshack.us/img215/7481/87613314.jpg
It the unlikely event that my opponent does get off an attack on me, I can briefly tank anything my crouching behind the shield and even diving into it if necessary (then making a new shield once I'm safe). This includes the drainer, whose affect would be safely swallowed by the shield until I jumped away. But really, I'd be gone before that ever happened.
For one, Solar radiation is the topic at hand, not radiation that comprises all that solar entails. Like I stated earlier, the Sun emits cosmic radiation, gamma, and a multitude of other powerful wavelengths. The Earth's various atmoshereic layers are to block said wavelengths but alow the beneficial ones to permiate, live ultraviolet, thermal, and visible light so you know.....99% of known "low-level" life on earth can survive.
Also, the snow is the main issue here since there is a thing called snow blindness that I assure a lot of us have almost fallen prey to when going outside after a good snowfall in the morning. Snow reflects Sunlight greatly, it's a major factor why the Northern icecaps are so beneficial to normal weather patterns and life as we know it on earth.
The drainer is not only unfettered by the Atmosphere and all it's filtering, but is a lot closer to it's intended targets only being separated by an ice block that is not going to defend against strong radiation. Not only that but robot can teleport above it and hit you on a whim.
The satellite part--
We;re talking real deal satellites here, which the government gave robot permission to and authorization to use since his team was government sponsored. That means no using commonly shared, cellular phone/television satellites, he gets to up-link to spy satellites, we're talking better than Google Earth type stuff being beamed to both units streamed.
Robot doesn't feel pain from his automatons, so the info of one of their demise is just that, info. He'll just hop near you once you attack unit02 with an attack (the drainer) you can't do anything about cause you chose not to do anything about it *shrugs*.
And the rest of it is dangerously close to offensive teleportation, especially since the portal is supposed to be opened within a character. :/ But then again, is this after of before you attack unit02? It won't just wait for you to pick and choose since it's going to teleport at you asap. And the dubious attack you mentioned with the spots and the drainer still wouldn't stop robot from teleporting out of danger. :/
A few of these supplement earlier points. Others are just to more fully explicate my powers.
A rough idea of what my spot shield can do: http://img215.imageshack.us/img215/7481/87613314.jpg
It the unlikely event that my opponent does get off an attack on me, I can briefly tank anything my crouching behind the shield and even diving into it if necessary (then making a new shield once I'm safe). This includes the drainer, whose affect would be safely swallowed by the shield until I jumped away. But really, I'd be gone before that ever happened."
Assuming you had the time to do any of that, you can't do jack with the drainer depowering your attacks, and the teleportation of both units easily as fast (faster) than spot's movement through portals.
Your spider powers get shorted out and you fall to the floor in a fetal position, not really a good thing if you need momentum and a clear mind to travel.
Spot can defend against a direct attack, but an attack that is invisible and is surrounding him like the Oxygene he breathes rapes him.
So in essence, robot has the Sea, land, and air under surveillance, and once Digi's character attacks the visible one, he gets jumped by the one lurking under the water like one of those Deep sea anglers.
Talk all you want about radiation. My stuff's evidence, yours is speculation. The judges will think what they want, and I can't pretend to speak for them. But, imo, it's beyond clear that the ice significantly reduces your drainer affect, and probably negates it entirely. And anything above water is playing right into my hands.
And yet. I'm guessing you can't show jack that suggests it can follow me through the spot dimension, or upload simultaneous feeds of someone moving at 40x human speed in a driving, freezing rain in the arctic. Occum's Razor, bud. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. I've backed up my 40x and spot claims...you have talked about "real deal" satellites
How is this relevant? I asked you what we should be calling it, you didn't respond. I'm just responding to the scans you post. So if you want to call random semantics a tactical victory, be my guest. It refutes nothing that I've shown, however.
Normally I don't respond to your drawings, because they're your biased interpretation of the fight, not actual comic scans. But this bears a response. For one, that water is defying gravity. For another, why in God's name would I just stand there? Three, even if that did happen, it would...get me wet? That's not even a hindrance.
Still not sure why you're not realizing that you teleporting to me is impossible. I'm faster than you and can be gone before you materialize. Pete gets entire seconds notice before threats. I'm kilometers away any time you try to port to me, and you're be left with a warm surprise in the form of lasers, metal-shredding screams, bombs, gas, etc. So, as before, how will you ever get the drop on me? My power set makes it impossible.
As for being "dangerously close to offensive teleportation," that's a handy way of saying it's not but trying to seed some doubt in the minds of either me or the judges. You claimed there was room for the drainer inside your robot suit. That leaves room for spots. Offensive teleportation would be something like porting the drainer right out of your hands, or porting a limb off. I am doing no such thing. If the robot is hollow, as you claim, it's a valid tactic.
So, again, when I make a spot inside the suit and another underwater, can the drainer work underwater? It's tech, and in all likelihood it gets short circuited. But if that doesn't do it, the pumpkin bombs and gas that come through next will finish the job.
"And yet. I'm guessing you can't show jack that suggests it can follow me through the spot dimension, or upload simultaneous feeds of someone moving at 40x human speed in a driving, freezing rain in the arctic."
^ A view of the battlefield from bird's eye view remedies that, the area is 3 kilometers square and Global observation satellites don't simply rely on clear skies to survey Earth lol.:
"Radarsat-1 uses a Synthetic Aperture Radar (SAR) sensor to image the Earth at a single microwave frequency of 5.3 GHz, in the C band (wavelength of 5.6 cm). Unlike optical satellites that sense reflected sunlight, SAR systems transmit microwave energy towards the surface and record the reflections. Thus, Radarsat-1 can image the Earth, day or night, in any atmospheric condition, such as cloud cover, rain, snow, dust or haze."
^ Radarsat-1 (for example) is one of many satellites that orbit Earth that have no problem whatsoever circumventing meager bad weather.
There is also TerraSAR-X, and the list goes on...
Harrow being part of the amalgam can hack whatever he wants using a partition of the amalgam's mind.
"that water is defying gravity. For another, why in God's name would I just stand there? Three, even if that did happen, it would...get me wet? That's not even a hindrance."
^ I was trying to illustrate the water pressure.
Anyway, opening up a spot portal near and/or within robot's chassis solely by using Spider-sense is quite laughable. I guess my character forgets to teleport to allow Spider-sense to pin point it, cause spot need's a stationary target for his best long distance feats concerning spots. Also, even of you got one near him, robot could teleport and leave it behind. He doesn't have to take it with him since his teleportation ability is superior.
All of this is getting old quick, I already have you by the balls (no homo) by teleporting to the surface and then teleporting back under the ice right after exposing a good portion of the battlefield with the drainer. Hiding in the spot dimension is self BFR, so you're screwed.
The freezing temperature will be a problem for your character also.
Spider-man gets "entire seconds notice" on a good day to say the least.
" If the robot is hollow, as you claim, it's a valid tactic."
Rex is also in a sub-suit within unit01 (as stated in the OP) so...meh.
Even if you COULD POSSIBLY get something in there he's not just a guy in a big suit. There is enough room for the case and barely anything else, it's not like one of those new Sentinels.
So again... a rehash of the OP. Both my robots converge on you from two approaches, and regardless of how fast you attack or don't attack unit02 (the visible target), unit01 can teleport close enough to get you well within the draining perimeter via several methods of survaillence. Any attack on unit02 will be an imediette response by the other unit, with it's invisible (visually and to Spider-sense), unblockable emmition.
I your character wants to hide and all that, like I said in my OP unit01 can use it's subsuit to enhance the drainer to take out the entire battlefield
Last edited by psycho gundam on May 12th, 2010 at 01:05 AM
I'll be honest and say none of that means much to me, it just sounds like a lot of technical jargon. And it still doesn't factor in how you'll be able to react to my near-constant movements through and within the spot dimension.
Knowing where I am also means nothing, because I'm still teleporting out before you materialize.
How? He's a scientist, not a godlike technopath. His hacking feats have come with lopsided prep, so feats like hacking Norman's armor mean nothing in the context of this fight.
lol, k. My earlier rebuttals remain firm.
When did I say I was only using spider-sense? I have thermal vision, ultraviolet and infrared vision, roughly the same specs on the mobile goblin glider, and zooming lenses on both the spider armor and glider. And spider-sense to locate you, so I'm not just blindly looking around.
He could, yes. But you don't have precognition like I do. In the time it takes for a comic *bloop* sound affect, you'll be exploding, disintegrating, flooded with water, etc.
Also, yes, lasers work fine underwater, and have repeatedly been proven to do so. I could create a spot well beneath me (to avoid that stupid drawing of yours), fire the laser into it, and fry your ass.
Or scream. Sound is amplified in water, and the goblin scream has shaken apart a Sentinel. You'd be uber-boned.
/sigh. When have I been hiding in the spot dimension? The battlefield is plenty big for me to be out of range (easily) at all times.
Nah, it quoted by Pete himself a couple issue ago, and that's the depowered post-OMD Spider-Man. I have the most powerful, quick, sensitive he's ever been during his "The Other" upgrades and with the Iron Costume. If anything, I'd get more warning time.
We also assume bloodlusted, peak combatants. So yes, he gets that much warning time on a good day. And this match is a very, very good day for him.
So again, unless you have evidence to back up SM getting less time, don't try to make things up about him. That's never a good idea with me.
Gonna have to demand proof here. With no prep, and tech from a different universe, this seems downright silly.
So essentially, whatever direction PG is, I will be making Spot into a human absorbing shield, in addition to the literal spot-shield I'm wielding. Nothing will touch me, ever. Not the drainer, not other attacks, nothing.
Tying Things Up
We're nearing the end here, and it's been a fun match. I don't plan a last-day zerg, since most judges will have a good idea of their vote by now. However, judges, please peruse my last post (probably my next one), as it will succinctly summarize all of my points and scans to keep them all straight in your mind. It's easy to lose track of certain aspects of fights, so I'll leave it all there for you to deliberate upon.
My last post, intended as a synopsis and reminder. I'm not concerned about PG getting the last word because last posts seldom make a huge difference, and there's also no way he can credibly address every point I have made and will make in this post.
It should be noted that the logic and scans that support all of these bullet points are littered throughout the thread. All points are heavily supported and/or proven.
- Class 15 punches
- Pumpkin Bombs
- A sonic scream that has been shown to shatter eardrums and vibrate metal apart
- High-power lasers, capable of melting through metal
- "Batarang" style throwing darts in GG's arsenal
- Webbing to inhibit movement and obscure vision
- Using spots to flood his armor with water
- Metallic pincers on SM's costume capable of piercing titanium
- Gas bombs capable of KO'ing them
- Glider kamikaze
- Long-range capabilities with all attacks due to the nature of spot-attacking. He has made them as far away as several blocks away without having to see the spot's location.
- Turning Spot into a human absorbing shield by manipulating spots on his body
- Webbing the edges of a large spot and creating a web handle to make a spot shield that will shunt any and all attacks directed at me into the darkforce dimension
- Spider-sense that will warn me of any impending nearby teleport, giving me enough time to attack their position before their arrival, teleport away to safety, or both.
- Superior durability, both in terms of armor and my amalgam as a whole. PG's character will die quickly once attacked and the armor is breached.
Detection and Tracking
- Long range thermal, ultraviolet, and infrared viewing capabilities in the iron SM suit
- Zooming capabilities in both the goblin glider and SM armor
- Spider-sense capable of tracking opponents over vast distances, which is also capable of pinpointing enemies inside buildings or on a battlefield
Insufficiently Supported Ideas (PG)
- The drainer can be amped at all
- The robot could amp the drainer with no prep time for it and no equipment
- The drainer can be used at long range (best scan only supports maybe 50 yards at best, and we're on a battlefield that is several kilometers).
- The drainer can go through thick materials and still be effective
- The drainer's radiation will not be absorbed by the ice/snow (not only is this one not supported, but I have evidence in refutation of it).
- That he can attack me before I react.
- That Harrow can hack something on the fly, with no equipment or prep
I'm practical. I don't expect judges to agree with me on every single point, even though I genuinely believe that they should. But there is too much uncertainty on PG's part, and too many capabilities on mine, to believe that he wins. There are bullet points above that, even if you removed all but about 2-3 of them, give me the victory. In summary, vote for Digi: http://img515.imageshack.us/img515/...6fight19ux4.jpg
Thank you for your time, leo, judges, PG and other participants. It's been fun.
^ quickly figures out how to take out an equilibrium disrupting signal implanted into Invincible's ear that was causing him extreme pain (and was supposedly fatal) that was set to loop the signal once the trigger his attacker held was damaged.Robot easily took it out, this means he can effect signals like say...remote control gliders.
Now to prove what I posted earlier about robot boosting the power of the drainer:
^ Within the larger unit he'd have the defense he needs to do his thing, add the knowledge Harrow has of the device he re-created plus the fact that it's not a component of the robot armour that needs to be detached and whatnot, he'd just need to plug in some cables to boost the power. I'd probably take less than a minute maximum...shit is already built and doesn't require guerrilla engineering to put together :/
So with that, if the battle is going nowhere, robot could just amp the drainer and teleport in the middle of the area and take everything out.
- The drainer is unbeatable by Digi here, the range too vast and the ability to teleport in conjunction with it's
power is too deadly.
- Unit01 is only an over suit worn by robot. It adds durability and offensive power over the smaller suit. It has super strength and ballistic armaments of considerable power.
- Not only is there the double suit (unit01), but unit02 is on the ice surface employing a personal portal opener with it's senses linked to the submerged unit01 and vice versa.
- Unit02 is already equipped with it's neural disruptor than can be simply attuned to human alpha waves.
- A two-for here; robots teleportation movements are defense and offense since Spider-sense will try and keep up, and will cause Digi's character discomfort or worse.
- Sheer speed advantage here, Spot needs to coordinate his jumps and getting caught by the large radius of the drainer is always present danger.
- Drainer doesn't trigger spider-sense, and it can be amped.
- This is a two-on-one fight, but one of my characters is but a sacrifice to lure the opposition whom is unaware of the draining.
- Underwater, on the surface of the ice sheet, and in space, robot has instant visual advantage.
- The various spy satellites he'll connect to will have the entire battlefield covered, and unlike digi's team, have the ability to see through the atmospheric phenomena that are covering the battlefield. That means that robot will get unhindered visual information of the entire battlefield, all he wants to do is get Digi's character in the drainer and that's it. Won't matter where digi's guy ports over to, he can't do anything about the satellite and it will see whatever he tries to put in the portals as well.
- Double armour and the drainer and the ability to teleport instantly (without drawbacks)....and the ice sheet creating a barrier...and being under water near the onset of battle.
- Superior surveillance abilities and brain power. Robot won't get overwhelmed by his senses also.
- Simple as this, the drainer. Digi didn't prove that spot's powers would work near the drainer, none of his characters are immune.
- Digi can't prove that Spot can create portals in robot's armour, nor can it do much with his ability to insta-port, and on top of that, Spider-sense is the only super-sense he's got to pull off such a maneuver, and the scan evidence was dubious to say the least. And the spots being used to turn water into an advantage was self destructive.
- Robot and his automaton(s) are protected from the harsh landscape, Digi can't say the same for his character.
- CAN'T BE TOUCHED
At the end of the day, the drainer + teleportation + three(+) points of surveillance + a good diversion in unit02 land my dude the first strike here, and it will stick since there is no dispute that the drainer will be the equivalent to getting kicked in the testicles by Seabiscuit, then goes into your pockets and takes your powers away. Fight's over after that.....
Last edited by psycho gundam on May 15th, 2010 at 03:32 AM
Gender: Male Location: Drinking gasoline. Pissing napalm.
~Enyalus' Analysis of the Match~
Huh. I went back and forth on this for a while. I can see the other judges opinions differing a lot from my own, all based upon what they think the full capabilities of the drainer are.
Firstly, I feel I need to point out to PG, and ask, why he believes that Rex gets access to his smaller battle suit inside of unit01 when from his prep and opening post, he never mentioned it:
"All amalgamate and take Harrow's antidote*. The amalgam then activates the drainer then gets within Robot's battle suit(unit01)**"
"-10 Seconds of prep completes-
So i have the big ass battlesuit(unit01), and the smaller one(unit02)."
From what I understand here, Dr. Harrow, Pip the Troll, and flesh-and-blood clone Rex amalgamate into Dr. Trollbot, and hop into the big suit. The personal suit inside of the big suit is never mentioned. I don't know if that was an oversight on your part, or if the smaller personal suit automatically comes with the unit01 battlesuit. You didn't tell me, and I don't read Image save for Spawn, so...
I can't decide whether or not to let you have access to that sub-suit in my version of the fight, considering you didn't explicitly mention it. Let's see if it makes a difference during my breakdown.
I also have a problem with PG trying to sell unit02's mobility as an instantaneous sort of teleportation, when it looks in the scans (to me) as more of a portal. It seems to be less of an instant Nightcrawler/Pip teleport as opposed to an opening of a portal and jumping through that portal with the entire Teen Team. If that's true (and since it's my write up I assume that it is), then a spot opening up and some finger lasers or pumpkin bombs coming out of it are going to hit and destroy it without trouble, before it can teleport out of the way. PG said he was using unit02 as a distraction, and I agree - that's all it really is useful for.
PG's drainer/ice issue...man. I would have had difficulty buying its ability to work underneath 25 meters of a solid object (ice), even if the issue hadn't been debated. Getting it to work through that AND his suit just doesn't seem realistic to me. And I, like Digi, don't enjoy getting into real world science in a comic debate. However, PG was the one who decided to open that can of worms, and Digi seemed to find actual real-world research published by an authentic scientific journal to discredit that portion of PG's argument completely. While unit01 is under the ice and Digi's amalgam is above it, I'm operating under the premise that the drainer's effects do not work.
Digi's not exempt from criticism; two arguments of his I have fault with:
1) Spots on Dr. Trollbot's armor. Regardless of it not being offensive teleportion in the letter of the rule, I think it really is offensive teleportation in the spirit of it. I can only compare it to, say, putting spots on Iron Man in order to drastically hinder IM's capabilities. That's offensive teleportation. And I can't see it being much different for someone like Rex and his unit01 battlesuit. That being said, I'm not allowing it and will ignore it as a viable tactic for Digi's character to use.
2) Digi's amalgam being unaffected by Harrow's drainer because of Green Goblin. And this is really difficult to wrap my mind around and decide how to deal with it. I fully believe that although GG is 100% human and therefore Harrow's genetic drainer wouldn't affect him per se, Digi has amalgamated his characters together and therefore Digi's character is no longer 100% human. Okay. So I've decided the drainer affects his amalgam. Now what? I mean, does his character become extremely ill and unable to move or operate because part of his character is superhuman? I can't see that being entirely accurate when 1/3rd of his amalgam should be completely immune. So to be fair, I'm going to operate under the presumption that if Digi's amalgam is exposed to the drainer his powers will cease to work, but his suit and body and sensory faculties will remain unaffected. Essentially that his character will be rendered a normal human in a suit.
And I guess if I'm going to make such an extrapolation for Digi, in the spirit of fairness I'll allow Rex to have his sub-suit inside of unit01. That allows for PG's character to boost the drainer's power if he feels the need. But PG thinks it'll take a minute at most in order to do that. On panel Rex needed five minutes of uninterrupted time in order to do it, and additionally, the sub-suit was completely gone during and of course after using it. There's no evidence the drainer was built with an amplification device in mind for it later on so no reason why it would be so easy for Dr. Trollbot to amp it. That, and it's Stark's tech, not Harrow's own. So I'm going to disagree with PG's conclusion of a minute or less...but will compromise and agree to about 2 1/2 minutes of uninterrupted time (half the time said on panel.)
Now that I've got all the basic analysis out of the way, I can say that PG's advantage is vastly superior monitoring capabilities (what with satellites and all). Remote glider tracking, Spider-Sense, and UV and infrared sensors are alright, but they don't beat out military-grade satellites. He'll know where Digi's character is before Digi knows where Dr. Trollbot is.