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US Prisons: How do we...
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dadudemon
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US Prisons: How do we...

The poor US Justice System is widely known throughout the US and the world as being highly ineffective, borderline barbaric, costly, and often abusive.

Several Facts to Digest:

1. The USA has the highest, both per capita and in raw numbers, number of people imprisoned, in the world. 1, 2, 3



2.The USA's average prison sentence is getting longer and longer with the recent average being 24 months (2010-2013). 4



3. Reasons why people are in prison, the overview: 5

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a) 1 in 5 are locked up for drug offenses (total prison population including local, state, and federal). 6

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b)46.3% of federal prisoners are incarcerated due to drug offenses: 7

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c)39.5% are locked up for violent crimes: 5, 8



4. Recidivism (being rearrested) rates are 76.6% after 5 years for released offenders. 9



5. The USA incarcerates more juveniles than any other country in the world. 10

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Please discuss solutions for these 5 points listed, here.


Some answers show a correlation between welfare and reduction in crime, some refer to education, some refer to changing how prisons function (changing them into reformation institutions as opposed to punishment facilities), and so forth.


Clearly, the US has a prison problem. We...just aren't doing it right.


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Old Post Nov 21st, 2017 07:32 PM
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Emperordmb
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Legalize weed and psychedelics and decriminalize all drug use for a start.


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Old Post Nov 21st, 2017 07:33 PM
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socool8520
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^ If you want to legalize drugs, I guess that drops the incarceration rates significantly.

What kind of reformation are talking about here DDM? Therapy, education, etc? I'm for that, but aren't those programs already available?


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Old Post Nov 21st, 2017 07:37 PM
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Steve Zodiac
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Re: US Prisons: How do we...

quote: (post)
Originally posted by dadudemon
The poor US Justice System is widely known throughout the US and the world as being highly ineffective, borderline barbaric, costly, and often abusive.

Several Facts to Digest:

1. The USA has the highest, both per capita and in raw numbers, number of people imprisoned, in the world. 1, 2, 3



2.The USA's average prison sentence is getting longer and longer with the recent average being 24 months (2010-2013). 4



3. Reasons why people are in prison, the overview: 5

(please log in to view the image)


a) 1 in 5 are locked up for drug offenses (total prison population including local, state, and federal). 6

(please log in to view the image)


b)46.3% of federal prisoners are incarcerated due to drug offenses: 7

(please log in to view the image)


c)39.5% are locked up for violent crimes: 5, 8



4. Recidivism (being rearrested) rates are 76.6% after 5 years for released offenders. 9



5. The USA incarcerates more juveniles than any other country in the world. 10

(please log in to view the image)




Please discuss solutions for these 5 points listed, here.


Some answers show a correlation between welfare and reduction in crime, some refer to education, some refer to changing how prisons function (changing them into reformation institutions as opposed to punishment facilities), and so forth.


Clearly, the US has a prison problem. We...just aren't doing it right.
Look to the models of countries like Noway, where reoffending is low compared to the US. Prisoners with dignity and a chance to improve themselves are less likely to re-offend. Remember the removal of freedom is the punishment.


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Old Post Nov 21st, 2017 07:41 PM
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Flyattractor
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I always love the "Reasoning" of how to Reduce Crime...Make Less Stuff ILLEGAL!


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Old Post Nov 21st, 2017 07:41 PM
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Emperordmb
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Flyattractor
I always love the "Reasoning" of how to Reduce Crime...Make Less Stuff ILLEGAL!


I mean if it's drug use that doesn't violate anyone's rights then it seems pretty straightforward to not waste police resources, taxpayer money, and violate people's liberty and property to punish.


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Old Post Nov 21st, 2017 07:44 PM
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Flyattractor
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SO make ALL Drugs Legal? Or just SOME Drugs?

Where do you draw the line? And if you LEGALIZE them all, how long till other Laws
are dropped because of it? How long till you trip on the Slippery Slope?


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Old Post Nov 21st, 2017 07:48 PM
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Emperordmb
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Flyattractor
SO make ALL Drugs Legal? Or just SOME Drugs?

I said marijuana and psychedelics (LSD, psilocybin, DMT, mescaline) should be legalized, and all other drug use should be decriminalized.

That doesn't mean other drugs can't be confiscated from people or that the dealers of those drugs can't be criminally prosecuted, but it means drug use and possession shouldn't be criminal offenses treated with the violation of liberty and property, they should be treated with rehabilitation.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Flyattractor
Where do you draw the line? And if you LEGALIZE them all, how long till other Laws are dropped because of it? How long till you trip on the Slippery Slope?

Until other laws are dropped because of what?

The justification for legalizing and decriminalizing drugs is that it's an unnecessary burden on the government and law enforcement and that drug use isn't something that violates people's rights.

If your argument is that legalizing and decriminalizing drug use will lead to the legalization of actions that constitute a violation of someone else's rights then that's a really stupid argument.


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Old Post Nov 21st, 2017 07:55 PM
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Surtur
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LSD....that's like psychological dynamite!


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Old Post Nov 21st, 2017 08:00 PM
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Kurk
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@DMB how will you then address the issue of synthetic marijuana users running ass-naked on the streets or otherwise acting like zombies? Will it be their fault or the drugs? Do we blame drunk driving or alcohol?

On a side note, I'd hesitate to ever try a hallucinogenic myself unless I'm restrained because 110% confident I'd have a "bad trip" and hurt myself or others.

Anyway, I would only be for decriminalization/legalization of drugs if white-collar crimes were also lessened. Bernie Madoff should not get more years than a murderer/rapist.

Also, I'd really like amphetamines (adderall/ritalin) to be deregulated (I'm a college student can you guess why???)


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Old Post Nov 21st, 2017 08:12 PM
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dadudemon
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Flyattractor
SO make ALL Drugs Legal? Or just SOME Drugs?

Where do you draw the line? And if you LEGALIZE them all, how long till other Laws
are dropped because of it? How long till you trip on the Slippery Slope?


I had this argument/debate with inimalist and he, who speaks from a position of authority on the topic, believes that legalizing all drugs is not appropriate. Some examples I threw out there were meth and krokodil. Those are probably drugs that, even as recreational use, are never okay. However, I still think we should legalize it all. I am open to compromise and agree that perhaps not legalization for all but just decriminalization. Is there a difference?

Anyway, as the numbers show, legalizing drugs would only tackle 1/5 of the incarceration problems. And as SirWhirlySplatt pointed out, reducing recidivism has clear solutions and we can look to other countries who are more successful with it.


But drugs are only 1/5 of the problem. I do not have the numbers but IIRC, Government, Incaceration, Justice, and Law Enforcement related to drugs costs us hundreds of billions (trillions?). F*** it, I'll look it up.

$76 billion a year.

https://elevationshealth.com/annual-cost-war-on-drugs/

Let's end the war on drugs. Legalize all drugs (or at least decriminalize them). Pardon all non-violent drug offenders currently incarcerated. Watch how crime goes down over the next 10 years.



https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...m=.72f0ccedd815


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Old Post Nov 21st, 2017 08:14 PM
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Surtur
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Kurk
@DMB how will you then address the issue of synthetic marijuana users running ass-naked on the streets or otherwise acting like zombies? Will it be their fault or the drugs? Do we blame drunk driving or alcohol?

On a side note, I'd hesitate to ever try a hallucinogenic myself unless I'm restrained because 110% confident I'd have a "bad trip" and hurt myself or others.

Anyway, I would only be for decriminalization/legalization of drugs if white-collar crimes were also lessened. Bernie Madoff should not get more years than a murderer/rapist.

Also, I'd really like amphetamines (adderall/ritalin) to be deregulated (I'm a college student can you guess why???)


I demand that you beware of the dangers of marijuana. Did you know it can lead to wierd parties and wild diversions?


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Old Post Nov 21st, 2017 08:16 PM
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Robtard
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Ending private for profit prisons would be a good start.


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Old Post Nov 21st, 2017 08:17 PM
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socool8520
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That Washington Post article was encouraging in the case of Marijuana. I don't think results would be similar in drugs such as Crack/Cocaine or Meth for example.

Even 1/5 is a pretty substantial start for lowering incarceration.

As far as prisons go, I am for education and therapy programs. I'm fine with them working for no pay. You are being punished. They shouldn't be getting to watch TV or anything. Books and newspapers imo.


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Old Post Nov 21st, 2017 08:26 PM
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Emperordmb
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Kurk
@DMB how will you then address the issue of synthetic marijuana users running ass-naked on the streets or otherwise acting like zombies? Will it be their fault or the drugs? Do we blame drunk driving or alcohol?

If people are responsible in their drug use let them be responsible and leave them alone. If they are irresponsible and break laws punish them for the laws they break. That's always been my stance on prohibition of things.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Kurk
On a side note, I'd hesitate to ever try a hallucinogenic myself unless I'm restrained because 110% confident I'd have a "bad trip" and hurt myself or others.

I mean if you're that worried about it it's a better idea not to do so yeah.


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Old Post Nov 21st, 2017 08:26 PM
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snowdragon
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quote:
"Anyway, as the numbers show, legalizing drugs would only tackle 1/5 of the incarceration problems. And as SirWhirlySplatt pointed out, reducing recidivism has clear solutions and we can look to other countries who are more successful with it."


Decriminalizing drugs would be a huge help. Reducing recidivism would need to extend beyond just the criminal system. As a society we need to relook how we view past crinimal behaviors. Anyone filling out an employment form and getting a background check with a crinimal history is going to be automatically kicked out of many potential jobs. Then we have the cycle of poverty and crime with the indivduals again. Why can't felons vote that have paid for their crimes........

USA, USA the land of the free, home of the jailed.

Prisons for profits, making Murika better 1$ dollar at a time with each new inmate.

Old Post Nov 21st, 2017 08:26 PM
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Emperordmb
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Robtard
Ending private for profit prisons would be a good start.

This is something I vehemently agree with Democrats on. Private prisons create a lobby in favor of people being in jail and that's a disgusting profit incentive to create.


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Old Post Nov 21st, 2017 08:27 PM
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snowdragon
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Emperordmb
This is something I vehemently agree with Democrats on. Private prisons create a lobby in favor of people being in jail and that's a disgusting profit incentive to create.


It goes even beyond private prisons, we also know that police have ticket quotas to fund the local coffers as well.

Old Post Nov 21st, 2017 08:28 PM
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Scribble
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by dadudemon
And as SirWhirlySplatt pointed out, reducing recidivism has clear solutions and we can look to other countries who are more successful with it.
Hold up, hold up. I know this is off-topic, but Steve Zodiac is Whirly?


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Old Post Nov 21st, 2017 08:32 PM
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socool8520
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I thought he was Stop the Hate


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