Some time ago the official Star Wars website posted a poll asking if you thought there might be a traitor on the Jedi Council. Naturally this worked just like they wanted it to, and I started wondering about it. Most of the council members don't have any dialogue in the movies, so it is foolish to look beyond Ki-Adi-Mundi, Mace Windu, or Yoda. For the purpose of this analysis, I will only be looking at the movies themselves; not EU work.
Ki-Adi-Mundi's amount of dialogue is negligible, so if he's the traitor there really is no way for us to predict it. It's very hard to conceive of Yoda being a traitor because of his role in the Original Trilogy. Plus, after looking over Yoda's dialogue in Eps 1 and 2 I just don't see anything too suspicious (although I do think that Yoda knows more than he's letting on). I think the traitor (assuming there really is one) is Mace Windu. While I admit he has neither said nor done anything that would overtly imply he is not being a team player, there are some things that when taken in context (and viewed on-screen) have me questioning his motives:
1. At the end of Phantom Menace when Mace and Yoda are discussing events, Yoda states of the Sith "Always two there are. No more, no less", and Mace asks (perhaps rhetorically) whether it was the master or the apprentice that was killed. On its face this dialogue would seem to implicate Yoda is not on the up-and-up. If the Sith have been gone for a millennium, and there was no reason to think they did not exist in greater numbers previous to that, how would Yoda know they've secretly continued the line in master/apprentice fashion? Granted, that seems odd, but I believe Mace's response is more indicative of something. Why would you even wonder if Maul had been the master or apprentice? Do you really think a young Obi-Wan could have taken out a Sith Master? Or that the Master would expose himself and risk being killed after a thousand years of Sith plotting? Mace should know better than that. Perhaps the line was meant to suggest they needn't worry so much, because if we killed the master, then maybe the whole thing will just go away now. Wouldn't that be nice? Indeed, it seems the Jedi do let the whole thing slide. Ten years pass between the first two movies, and we see no indication that the Jedi are any closing to figuring out who/where the Sith master is.
2. At the beginning of Attack of the Clones, after Palpatine gets his message the Loyalist Committee has arrived, Mace Windu is shown pensively rubbing his face. He seems to be mentally wrestling with something. It could simply be worry about the impending conflict, but that's not how I interpreted his body language. I could be reading too much into that, but in light of other things it would make sense.
3. When Palpatine suggests the Jedi directly protect Padme, and specifically suggests Obi-Wan, Yoda gives Palpatine a clear look of suspicion. Mace, on the other hand, is quick to say that it would be possible to assign Obi-Wan (and by default, Anakin).
4. After the incident with Zam Wessell, Anakin tells the council it will be difficult to get Padmé to go back to Naboo. Yoda tells Anakin that Padmé will just have to go along with the will of the Council, and that's that. But Mace actually tells Anakin to go to the chancellor. If Mace thought that it was necessary to involve Palpatine why didn't he pick up the old holonet phone and ask Palpatine himself? Instead he tells a padawan learner to hop in a taxi and urge the chancellor to order Padme around. Is this the first time he has encouraged the two to be together?
5. When Obi-wan brings his concerns about Anakin to the attention of Yoda and Mace, Yoda seems to agree with him until Mace comes to Anakin's defense. "The boy has exceptional skills." After Obi-wan continues to worry Mace reminds him of the prophecy, as if to say it doesn't matter if he's going down the wrong path because he might be the kid in the prophecy. If they had heeded Obi-wan's warning here, then there may never have been a Darth Vader.
6. After Obi-wan reports back the first time to Mace and Yoda, Yoda laments the fact they were unaware of the clone army and their inability to see through the Dark Side. In response Mace actually suggests they reveal their weakness to the Senate! Yoda wisely realizes that would only make their situation worse. Why would Mace suggest they make themselves look inept, and lessen their influence over events, by admitting to the Senate that the Jedi have been duped?
7. On Geonosis, Mace manages to sneak up on the Dooku and the others with him. Even for Mace it seems like quite a feat to sneak up on the galaxy's best bounty hunter and a man that is probably the third most powerful Force user alive. Did Dooku allow him to sneak up? Even if that's not the case, if Windu had the advantage why didn't he just strike Dooku down, maim him, or at the very least why didn't he hold the sabre up to Dooku's throat instead of Jango's? He could have ended the whole problem right there! But…he wouldn't do that if he were in league with Dooku.
8. When Jango goes after Mace, Mace dispatches him easily, just like you would expect him to do. Dooku, though, looks truly surprised by this (let us also not forget that Dooku looks a little surprised when Jango takes off after Mace in the first place). Did Dooku really think Mace was incapable of besting Jango? Mace looks up at Dooku rather defiantly afterwards. Why would you take the time to do that in the middle of a pitched battle unless you were trying to make a point? Perhaps Mace has made a choice…the one he was mulling over in the Chancellor's office at the beginning of the film?
Found this on UGO.com
No spoilers here plz
Please don't comment about me about these
i did not write them
just thought it might be interesting
I think u are right i think the big twist in the new film is that mace is a traitor. it could only have been a Jedi that could erase the files from the map. And what better insider than mace also if u think about it why would Lucas take on Samuel Jackson he is really good at playing bad guys so this would be perfect. And all the other points really do add up and it links a hidden secret no one saw, like Vader saying that he was Luke's farther. As we have not had a big twist yet and every one is waiting for one now.
Also mace would take on palpatine as the sith are very selfish and every one of them are out to be the master so it would make scence that mace would want rid of sidious. Also anaikin could be persuided to kill mace due to sidious telling him about the inside work hes been doing.
and maybe make the point about no spoilers really, really big, coz youll get some wise ass jumping in and screaming out spoilers before they realise it.
Speculation at the moment but first two movies point to mace being the tratior and this discussion went on for a while on star wars .com. And that was a long time ago but i still believe he is and i hope he is as it makes a well thought out story line and that is waht lucas needs.
1) Even Yoda was questioning if it was a master or an apprentice, you don't call Yoda a traitor do you?
2) Just shows him worried, and he might be as Yoda supicious about Palpatine.
3)Maybe he suspects, something, maybe he doesn't like Yoda. I don't think he saw danger into playing into the Sith Lords game. Would another Jedi make a difference?
4)Strange but just a detail to add to the story, otherwise there would be no reason for Anakin to go to the chancellor, and than the movie couldn't show the bond they already had.
5)In a cut scene Mace tells Obi-Wan he must have faith that he will take the right path, the scene which is replaced by the one you are talking about. So Mace did want that the prophecy came out and that he took the right path. Besides Yoda thinks that all Jedi became a little cocky, even the older wiser ones...they all seem to agree on that, so in a way he pointed out that Anakin wasn't the only one arrogant, he defended him, but that does not make Yoda a traitor. Stupid maybe lol
6) Jedi are defenders of the Republic, Mace saw that the Jedi became weaker and maybe were unable to defend it. Yoda knew this too, but as Yoda is wiser than Mace, he didn't think it would be a good idea to reveal it that they are weaker. Mace was unaware and so was Yoda that there could be a Sith Lord in the senate itself. Yoda is just more cautious.
7)It's not in a Jedi's way to kill a man. They wanted to arrest Dooku, not kill him. Dooku was standing further, Jango closer, so he had a better chance to suprise them with Jango. Maybe Dooku knew that he was coming but saw no threat, as he sees himself as invincible and knew that if the Jedi came, they would walk into a trap.
8) I think he looked at Dooku, to show the Jedi are stronger as Dooku thinks...Maybe he was hoping that now the greatest bountyhunter is dead, that the Sith Lord would think of himself not so invincible. Dooku still hoped that the Jedi would surrender. Mace says the Jedi would fight to the end since they didn't want to become hostages. He probably knew that Dooku still had a weakness for the Jedi. Watch at the lines of Dooku at his emotions. After chopping Anakin's arm off he seems to regret what he has done, but he knew there was no turning back.
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"The greatest hero is the one who learns to face his fears and overconquers it!"
Mar 14th, 2005 09:50 AM
