Sidious let Mace win. Think about it. The battle starts. While fending off Mace Sidious takes out 3 Jedi Masters like they're nothing. While fending off Mace. That right there should tell you Mace would be no problem for him if he was planning on killing him straight up. His moves are a lot choppier than they are in the Yoda duel which also indicates he's not trying. Remember what Qui-Gon said, "Nothing happens by accident." so Anakin coming into the room the second after Sidious appears to have lost is not a coincidence, it was careful timing on Sidious's part. Anakin wouldn't turn unless he saved Sidious, which wouldn't heppen unless it seemed Sidious was done for. Sidious made himself look weak and feeble and helpless by taking off his mask and making Anakin think it was the lightning that disfigured his face. Then Anakin turns to the Dark Side and kills Mace. Sidious immediately hits Mace with all he's got and Mace is a goner.
Palpatine doesn't look at all surprised Anakin turned or ruffled about his encounter. When he's pleading for Anakin to help him it's so fake it's funny.
Another point to consider is that even if Anakin hadn't "saved" Sidious he wouldn't have died. he could have stopped the lightsaber with the lightning again or jumped out of the way and then used to the Force to get one of the fallen Jedi's lightsabers and finish Mace off.
One last thing: The databank on starwars.com states than Yoda and Mace are equal in power and Sidious defeated Yoda so he could have defeated Mace.
All proof is for Sidious letting Mace "win" none for Mace winning. IMHO everyone who thinks Mace won is one or more of the following:
A. A Mace fan
B. A Vaapad believer
C. Someone who has read Shatterpoint
I am A and C. When I first saw the movie I knew Sidious could have won but didn't want to believe that he is strong enough to defeat 4 strong Jedi Masters at the same time. I also had thought for a long time that Mace is the strongest character in the saga. But people started shoing me evidence that I was wrong and I had nothing to fight back with so I decided I would have to believe that which I didn't want to. So I came to accept that Sidious could have defeated 4 strong Jedi Masters at the same time, one of which included Mace Windu.
Mace won, Palpatine lost.
Palpatine was only pretending to be weak (After he lost) so Anakin would feel sorry for him and let Mace know that he requires a trial. Also, theres the Padme thing. Palpatine knew anakin all to well
Unfounded crap my ass. He's right, in my eyes. Sidious, the ultimate planner to who stood to Yoda (who is better than Mace) would not lose to an inferior.
The only thing I disagree with is the comment about lightning disfigurement: it was the lightning that did it, unless you didn't watch the movie or see it mentioned in the Visual Dictionary.
Mace won until he died, but it is unsolvable Mace clearly won the saber duel and was winning Palp's Force Lightning duel, it was only when the Dumbass showed up that he lost.
He won AND lost, on account of he's dead.
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It said in Star Wars Insider than Palpatine's face was always like that and he was using the Force to cloud his appearance.
Thank you. And BTW lots of people have accepted the truth. One of the starwars.com weekly polls was on this question and Mace really won got 52% of the votes, Palpatine was faking it got 48% of the votes so many people do realise the truth.
Registered: May 2005
Location: .::The Anti-Fanboy Confederation::.
He had two of them killed before Mace participated in the battle and then simply used the lack of room to overcome Kit Fisto. When Mace was on his own he was the superior fighter. And you status within the order doesn't say anything about you duelling skills. It's not that "being a Jedi Master" means "having Yoda's skill in lightsaber combat".
This is stupid. If you have any idea about fighting you would know that you can lose a fight on purpose but not like Sidious did it. Here you have a picture by picture analyses of the fight:
- when Sidious starts attacking on the Jedi you can see that Mace is the only one that reacts (pulling his lightsaber up and get away from Sidious) while the other people really get slaughtered without doing anything. Saesee Tiin had the opportunity to simply cut Sidious down while he was killing Agen Kolar - they both did nothing. Kit Fisto only managed to get his saber up before getting killed. That doesn't make Sidious a great duellist it makes THEM weak duellists.
- now he starts attacking Mace and Mace parries Sidious two-handed strikes with the lightsaber in one hand and Sidious never gets close to hitting him. When they lock sabers you can even see that Mace is superior here since Sidious has a hard time to stay alive (look at the expression on his face)
- when watching carefully you can see that Mace had the opportunity to cut Sidious head off just after you can see Anakin entering the Senate building. Sidious has his sword down on his side and Mace is ready to strike but he doesn't do it - he "waits" till Sidious is ready to parry again.
- right after that you can see Sidious giving ground from the middle of the room to the window and he has a hard time parrying Mace's strikes
- right after destroying the window Mace is moving his swords in circles with the LEFT hand (which is not his weaponhand). Sorry - noone would do that in front of an enemy that he consideres dangerous.
- then Sidious tries to attack again and he has to go down on his knees to protect his head from being cut off right away by Windu. I won't even do that while "toying" with an opponent that is MUCH weaker than me because if Mace in this situation would have simply moved his saber backwards this would again have resultet in Sidious literally losing his head.
- and at the end you have Sidious losing his weapon and sorry - that can't be faked even if you a far superior to your opponent you can't make him kick away your weapon. Mace was clearly suprising Sidious here.
So Mace Windu did defeat Sidious in lightsaber combat and anyone that wants to tell me something different is either a Sidious fanboy who can't accept the facts or stupid or has no idea about swordfighting. You can chose your favourite from these three things.
So...this point is debateable. Sidious might really toy with the people there and simply hold back while really being able to blow Mace out of the window. This can be debated but he didn't fake the lightsaber fight because this was not possible.
He couldn't have stopped the saber with the lightning. Mace as a hard time deflecting the lightning while simply holding the saber but I doubt that Sidious would be able stop that strike with a lightning.
Yet...even if he could have done that how should he have jumped ? He was lying on his back and even assuming he would have been able to get away somehow: The next lightsaber was lying in another room and he had to cross a corridor to get there or at least move through his office to force pull a lightsaber. What should have stopped Mace from cutting him down from behind or simply throwing his own saber to kill Sidious ?
The same databank that states that Mace won fair and square against Sidious ? And by the way: The databank only says that Yoda wasn't able to defeat Sidious in the situation at the end of their fight and we all could see that Sidious only was LUCKY in that fight not more skilled than Yoda.
See above...everyone who thinks Sidious let Mace win is:
A. A Sidious fanboy
B. Stupid
C. Someone who doesn't have any idea about swordfighting
So you want to say you most likely fit in my category B or C ? Great. The fact you didn't have the ability to defend your oppinion doesn't mean other people were right. In fact Sidious can't defeat Mace or Yoda in a lightsaber fight that's why he lost against Mace and tried to run away from Yoda....
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Sep 17th, 2005 01:41 AM
