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The Architect.... The Great Trickster.
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maul's woman
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The Architect.... The Great Trickster.

He is the architect. He explained his purpose to Neo. He planted the seed of doubt in Neo. What do you think was the purpose of revealing that much of the "truth" to Neo and then Neo telling the "truth" to Morpheus.

The purpose is.....

What are your thoughts?


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Old Post May 28th, 2003 07:37 PM
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Tevesh
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maybe because he didn't think Neo would be just a damn selfish bastard and put trinity's life over the life of every single human on earth...but like the oracle said, the choice has already been made, what you have to do is understand why you made that choice...i'm sure that we'll figure out why he made such a choice other than the obviousness of his love for Trinity.


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Old Post May 28th, 2003 07:59 PM
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alaba
THE ONE

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i'm not so sure of the architects purpose but i think it's pretty obvious he got neo to chose the door he intended him to....


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Old Post May 28th, 2003 08:06 PM
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maul's woman
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big grin

And to what purpose do you think the Architect did what he did and Neo doing everything by "program" according to your idea and that of the Architect? Afterall, he is what we would call the "trickster" big grin Can you think of it in terms of the ultimate survival and who's survival?

Is it truly symbiotic, dual control, or struggle for control?


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Old Post May 28th, 2003 08:25 PM
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alaba
THE ONE

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has anyone noticed the conversation between the architect and neo has exactly the same context in the dialogue between neo and the chancellor? and why the hell did the chancellor quickly accept morpheous request to leave zion without much questioning? could he be in line with the baddies?


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Old Post May 28th, 2003 08:31 PM
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maul's woman
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Good thought. That remains to be seen. I love Anthony Zerbe. He's played some BADDIES in his day. big grin So you may not be far off the mark.

What connection do you think Zerbe's character has with the Architect?


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Old Post May 28th, 2003 08:36 PM
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alaba
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maul, i am not sure about the zerbe guy's connection, but if he himself isnt the architect, then he must be a traitor under him and remeber he was stressing the need for machines by humans. he was kinda stressing that we can't do without the machines and vice versa and so maybe neo could consider returning to the source to create a balance or something( getting confused myself so wipe that look off).


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Old Post May 28th, 2003 08:48 PM
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Ushgarak
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The Archtitect simply told Neo the way it was, that is all.


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Old Post May 28th, 2003 09:56 PM
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DeepThought
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Or told him what he wanted to tell him. Me and my friends wonder how much of what he said was truth, and how much was outright lies.. We shall see...


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Old Post May 28th, 2003 11:15 PM
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Mithrandir
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The architect and the matrix, I believe, are all wrong in one thing. They believe that their is no choice for Neo, that he will fall in line just like the rest od the anomallies. However, the architect is disproven twice. He tells Noe that, "trinity will die and there is nothing you can do about it" we all no that is proven false. The architect also said that Neo would chose to go into mainframe and reinsert his code and thus, according to the architect, the matrix would then build a new matrix according to the code he carries (i printed out script) False. Neo chooses door number #2 into matrix, and zion is not repopulated. My idea is that part of the rules within the matrix is that their is no free choice, that everything occurrence can be forseen and is based on cause and effect. Like every other rule Neo can bend and break, this is one of them. Could this be with the new addition of a feeling to the anomally of "love"? I think so. Hope I wasn't too confusing.


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Old Post May 29th, 2003 12:45 AM
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Ushgarak
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Huh? The whole POINT is that there IS choice for Neo, and the Architect knows that. And also Neo DID fail to save Trinity. But he then brought her back to life afterwards.

He did not say Neo WOULD go into the Source. He said that was his function. But on the contrary, the Architect knew what choice Neo had made before Neo did- and that would be to attempt to save Trinity. And he knew the reason for that as well- his specific, rather than general, attchment to humanity.


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"We've got maybe seconds before Darth Rosenberg grinds everybody into Jawa burgers and not one of you buds has the midi-chlorians to stop her!"

"You've never had any TINY bit of sex, have you?"

BtVS

Old Post May 29th, 2003 10:20 AM
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TheIvan
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But why machines would risk to offer Neo choice? I still believe that Architect is just a sort of system protection, as agents are.

Agents should destroy his body, while Architect should destroy his soul.

All machines are trying to keep current conditions. So architect tells him what to do to keep it. But why would he tell: well, you know, you can do something else to free people?

Old Post May 29th, 2003 12:22 PM
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maul's woman
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I agree Thelvan. But Neo doesn't really know. Of course the Architect is a defensive part of the A.I. Like another phage form. A defense cell. But like you said the Agents are the sharks and wolves of the program, but the Architect is the "intelligent killer" program. Seeking psychological and "spiritual" weakness by offering choices of survival but death is inevitable. Almost like saying that no matter what choice Neo makes massive loss of life of Xion and other "colonies" will still happen and that he had to chose the best of the human stock to start the breeding again. The human breeding program according to Neo and the chief architect is the A.I. A.I. as "God" and the Architect as it's protector, analyst, and trickster. Neo as the bridge across the gap for the benefit of the survival of the two lifeforms.... human and A.I.


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Old Post May 29th, 2003 12:32 PM
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maul's woman
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Excellent analysis Mithrandir.

But the Architect's position (and that of the A.I.) is that there is no such thing as choice. Either way according to the A.I., the "choice" of Neo is already known and either way Xion falls and he will have to chose the breeders of the next cycle of the struggle. The Matrix lives on no matter what according to the Architect.


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Old Post May 29th, 2003 12:36 PM
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Ushgarak
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It is nothing to do with RISKING choice. The Architect has to accept that choice exists or the Matrix does not work, as he directly described in his conversation.

I think people are overcomplicating. The Architect is the creator of the matrix, as he says, and what he told Neo was all true.


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"We've got maybe seconds before Darth Rosenberg grinds everybody into Jawa burgers and not one of you buds has the midi-chlorians to stop her!"

"You've never had any TINY bit of sex, have you?"

BtVS

Old Post May 29th, 2003 02:57 PM
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maul's woman
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Possibly. Or so he, the Architect, wants The One to believe. His candor is a powerful weapon. Like all entities, the Matrix A.I. will do what is necessary to survive. Keep the human thinking that they are fighting a war of survival and that they can in some way directly destroy the A.I. He possibly wove a lie in with the truth. The direct results? The ideological schism that was created with Neo telling Morpheus that it is all a lie and that there have been several destructions of Xion and several incarnations of The One.

Could it be that the Architect was telling Neo that humanity is just another part of the program. The grand design and every now and again it has to be "backed up" and reset?

Could that be what the Architect was telling Neo?


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Old Post May 29th, 2003 05:52 PM
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Ushgarak
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You could start to identify a billion scenarios by assuming the Architect selectively lied but we have no reason to think he did. By far the most likely outcome was that it is true. It was, after all, preseneted as the major end of film revelation and if much of that turns out to be false it will be a bit poor.


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"We've got maybe seconds before Darth Rosenberg grinds everybody into Jawa burgers and not one of you buds has the midi-chlorians to stop her!"

"You've never had any TINY bit of sex, have you?"

BtVS

Old Post May 29th, 2003 08:09 PM
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maul's woman
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The beauty of it is that all of us are wrong! LOL!!!

But it is fun to speculate like this.

I have my prejudices. I still think that the Architect with the help of the Oracle are leading Neo into another realm of existance because he actually transcends the ordinary human existance in the Matrix. He is part of the Matrix and can never escape. He is the spark plug. The Jump Start for everything and taking it all to another level of expression. That is why the system has never really tried to kill him but gave him many many openings. Smith has become a rogue phage and he can wreak havoc within the system too. Old programming.


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Old Post May 29th, 2003 08:36 PM
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turin
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well the architect cant lie or trick neo because then it takes away choice which is vital to the reboot of the matrix.


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Old Post May 29th, 2003 09:08 PM
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alaba
THE ONE

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Location: kent, england.

has anyone noticed that in the first matrix movie, neo chose the pill to his LEFT and in reloaded, he chose the door to his LEFT? is there some connection here or pure coincidence and remeber both situations where about making choices......


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trust only the man upstairs.....

Old Post May 29th, 2003 09:47 PM
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