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Death Toll in Man of Steel
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Kickballjedi
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Death Toll in Man of Steel

I thought Man of Steel was a good movie. It was fun, had great actors, really updated the Superman mythos and had some very epic, well choreographed fight scenes.

But I did not like the random, unnecessary destruction in the movie. I felt Superman would've done everything he could to avoid risking human lives while battling the Kryptonians. From the absolutely stupid fight in the small town where streets, Sears and Ihops are randomly destroyed, to the battle in Metropolis where the U.S. Military helps cause death and destruction by sending in jets they already know are useless! These jets become exploding projectiles even after their missiles bounce harmlessly off of the enemy ship and destroy several buildings.

Well, a scientific group did a study of how many people they estimate were killed in the slugfest along with the astronomical cost of the destruction of several skyscrapers.

http://www.zimbio.com/Henry+Cavill/...late+Death+Toll

So really? Superman, Zod, and the U.S. Military kill an estimated 100,000 people at least and cause 2 trillion in damage to save the world? If I was a random Metropolis citizen I would be as terrorized of Superman as I was of Zod! I would hope Superman never comes back to my city to save us again!

Old Post Jun 21st, 2013 06:19 PM
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ares834
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Good for you. Hope you enjoy coughing out your lungs as the Kryptonians terraform the Earth.

BTW, the vast majority of those killed would be due to the World Engine and not Zod's/Supe's fight.


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Old Post Jun 21st, 2013 06:29 PM
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Zack Fair
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The destruction could have been handled better. I understand that Snyder and goyer wanted to show just how devastating a battle between godlike beings would be. It would not be pretty and there would be casualties, Superman cannot save them all. however there are times where Superman just shows off instead of being effective and smart to keep the destruction down. I know Superman is a noob in this movie, but there is a scene that just irks me. It is when Zod kicks the gas truck at Superman and instead of grabbing and holding it, Superman just casually leaps between an open space and just stands there all cool while the thing explodes and destroys its fair share of a multi floored parking. Just makes me shake my head.


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Old Post Jun 21st, 2013 06:29 PM
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Kickballjedi
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The other theory I've heard is this was a learning curve for Supes, both the massive death, destruction and how he handles Zod at the end of the movie. These are hard learned lessons that Supes will try to avoid in future confrontations. That would make some sense, but I also think Kal is a smart enough guy to learn his lesson before the massive death and destruction occurs.

Old Post Jun 21st, 2013 06:40 PM
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Rao Kal El
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Honestly I will rather pay that amount of money vs the destruction and annihilation of the entire Human Civilization.

Now I wonder what will be the death toll and damage cost if Superman hadn't step up to save the world, just let them do their thing and probably even joining them, what would have been the cost of that?

IF saving the whole human race takes to destroy the whole human race, then What's the point.

But If in order to save the body I have to cut a hand, then I believe the smart move is to cut the hand and save the body.


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Last edited by Rao Kal El on Jun 21st, 2013 at 08:24 PM

Old Post Jun 21st, 2013 08:21 PM
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xJLxKing
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Death toll? Avengers had it worse, they killed an armada, nearly destroyed NYC with an Nitrogen Bomb, and the countless who died in the invasion. Most of the death toll in MoS were side effects of beings who had god like power. I would have been dissappointed if only 20 humans died.


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Old Post Jun 21st, 2013 11:55 PM
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Omega Vision
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by xJLxKing
Death toll? Avengers had it worse, they killed an armada, nearly destroyed NYC with an Nitrogen Bomb, and the countless who died in the invasion. Most of the death toll in MoS were side effects of beings who had god like power. I would have been dissappointed if only 20 humans died.

To be fair, the chitauri probably don't count where death toll is concerned, faceless bad guys never do.


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Old Post Jun 22nd, 2013 01:31 AM
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xJLxKing
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That's dumb then. As long as it ain't humans, who care, right?


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Old Post Jun 22nd, 2013 03:26 AM
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Zack Fair
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Right.

But one interesting fact; Superman is shown fighting inside a building and it was empty. No other shot of inside the buildings was given. Hulk by contrast runs through a building with people in it.

SMH critics.


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Old Post Jun 24th, 2013 04:31 AM
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Rage.Of.Olympus
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Superman was reckless as f*ck in this movie. This is the kind of world where Lex Luthor calling Superman a menace and trying to take him out would be completely justified instead of being the ranting of an insane and jealous lunatic.

Yeah, but Hulk doesn't kill anyone.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by xJLxKing
Death toll? Avengers had it worse, they killed an armada, nearly destroyed NYC with an Nitrogen Bomb, and the countless who died in the invasion. Most of the death toll in MoS were side effects of beings who had god like power. I would have been dissappointed if only 20 humans died.


What? How can you even begin to compare the death toll in Avengers to Man of Steel? In terms of human lives anyways, much less were lost. The Avengers went out of their way to contain the threat to evacuated areas and reducing collateral damage to the minimum.

I don't think some understand. The problem isn't with people dying in large numbers, the problem is Superman aiding in these deaths.

For example, in Smallville he directly flies Zod through a Nuclear Reactor or whatever (Surprised if he didn't cause some kind of meltdown or give some innocents cancer) and into the heart of a populated town. Like, what the f*ck?

Or how about him tossing the big Kryptonian into a f*cking train? Probably killed the conductors with that shit.

He just comes off as dumb imho the moment we pay any attention to what's going on. It's like he only cares about people if he can see them otherwise they might as well not exist.

The Hulk should not be a better hero than Superman. I'm not even a hardcore fan but this frustrates me to no end, if this was Thor, I'd be raging.


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Last edited by Rage.Of.Olympus on Jun 24th, 2013 at 05:07 AM

Old Post Jun 24th, 2013 05:04 AM
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CosmicComet
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Superman was reckless as f*ck in this movie. This is the kind of world where Lex Luthor calling Superman a menace and trying to take him out would be completely justified instead of being the ranting of an insane and jealous lunatic.

Yeah, but Hulk doesn't kill anyone.



What? How can you even begin to compare the death toll in Avengers to Man of Steel? In terms of human lives anyways, much less were lost. The Avengers went out of their way to contain the threat to evacuated areas and reducing collateral damage to the minimum.

I don't think some understand. The problem isn't with people dying in large numbers, the problem is Superman aiding in these deaths.

For example, in Smallville he directly flies Zod through a Nuclear Reactor or whatever (Surprised if he didn't cause some kind of meltdown or give some innocents cancer) and into the heart of a populated town. Like, what the f*ck?

Or how about him tossing the big Kryptonian into a f*cking train? Probably killed the conductors with that shit.

He just comes off as dumb imho the moment we pay any attention to what's going on. It's like he only cares about people if he can see them otherwise they might as well not exist.

The Hulk should not be a better hero than Superman. I'm not even a hardcore fan but this frustrates me to no end, if this was Thor, I'd be raging.


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Everything you said, on top of the fact that the costume was too dark, didn't have enough red on it, and that they didn't even start calling him Superman (and then it was used only twice i believe in the movie) until the last 30 minutes, all contributed to this not feeling like a Superman movie, but something...else.

Where was the ****ing joy of seeing the greatest hero ever prevail? He didn't prevail over shit. He contributed to the destruction greatly, and then failed to bring about a conclusion that he could be proud of.


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Old Post Jun 24th, 2013 05:15 AM
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Ize19
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Quoting myself in the MOS thread:

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Ize19
I have to say, I LOVED this movie! It takes the number 2 spot right behind Avengers for me. There are two complaints about this movie, that I think aren't very well thought out...

As for the death and destruction Superman was involved in, I don't blame him for it. Remember that for his whole life, Superman has been the most powerful being in the world. Just take a look at his face while he is fighting Faora, he is legitimately shocked that ANYONE could dodge him! He wasn't exactly thinking rationally when he first attacks Zod, who was threatening Ma Kent, and didn't expect him to be able to respond, or for Faora and her partner to be the threat they were.

As for his later fight, Zod didn't give him a choice. Zod attacked first, then declared that he'd kill humanity to make him pay, meaning that Superman's only option to save as many lives as he could, was to take down Zod as quickly as he could. Remember, this is his debut as a superhero, and after [SPOILER - highlight to read]: he kills Zod, who was the last of his race, I see him going to much greater pains to avoid the death and destruction of all life, especially human.


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Old Post Jun 24th, 2013 06:55 AM
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xJLxKing
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
What? How can you even begin to compare the death toll in Avengers to Man of Steel? In terms of human lives anyways, much less were lost. The Avengers went out of their way to contain the threat to evacuated areas and reducing collateral damage to the minimum.

I don't think some understand. The problem isn't with people dying in large numbers, the problem is Superman aiding in these deaths.

For example, in Smallville he directly flies Zod through a Nuclear Reactor or whatever (Surprised if he didn't cause some kind of meltdown or give some innocents cancer) and into the heart of a populated town. Like, what the f*ck?

Or how about him tossing the big Kryptonian into a f*cking train? Probably killed the conductors with that shit.

He just comes off as dumb imho the moment we pay any attention to what's going on. It's like he only cares about people if he can see them otherwise they might as well not exist.

The Hulk should not be a better hero than Superman. I'm not even a hardcore fan but this frustrates me to no end, if this was Thor, I'd be raging.


How can I compare the death toll? Are you kidding with the human lives? Yeah Superman gets the "OMG HE KILLED ZOD", but the countless of people, Tony, Thor, Hulk, and the rest of the Avengers took didn't even register in people's thoughts. Lets forget the countless of alien lives that were taken thanks to Tony. But hey it's okay, they are aliens right? Had they been Soviets, Nazi's, North Koreans, it would be okay, right?

As for Superman's inability to consider Human lives? ARE YOU KIDDING ME??? This it the guy who let his own father die for his beliefs; the same person who destroyed any hopes (so far) of getting Krypton back just so he can save earth. I'm sorry you feel so saddened that Superman can't stop a fight with 2 Kryptionians who probably have more combat experience and understanding than him to try and safe someone.

Now I'm not trying to be a douche when I say this, but please, everyone including you who have this belief that heroes can save lives while fighting need to stop thinking that way. Sure it can happen when you are fighting at the level like those we see in movies like Avengers, Hulk, X-Men, or even Thor, but it isn't happening at the level MoS is. The fact that people here expect Superman to just take the fight someone outside of Metropolis is laughable and ignorant. I'm sure Zod is going to be a totally moron and not exploit Superman's weakness. I'm sure Zod is a total idiot and will just follow Superman out of metropolis.

Also, as far as death toll goes, yes MoS has the most. If it had anything less I would have been disappointing. We saw the technology that Kryptonians posses and how many "Supermen" they have. I can't see realistically how you can expect death tolls, or damage to be low when the only thing that can beat them is a guy who at most can barely beat one other Kryptonian 1 vs 1. I'm sorry you feel so hurt that Superman while fighting 2 Kryptonians wasn't able to do everything he can to throw his opponents anywhere else. It's not like if he had thrown him in a building no one would have died, right?roll eyes (sarcastic) It's not like Superman didn't tell people to run/hide. It's not like I expect you to have common sense and believe that the residents of Metropolis and Smallvile don't have an idea about taking cover, shelter, or trying leaving the area. It's not like Avengers where a Police Officer trained (IN NYC NO LESS) , doesn't have a F&&^ING CLUE what to do in case of an emergency. I'm sure TOTALLY that he can't follow procedures about what to do in case of an attack, like you know, evaluating citizens, or taking perimeter around anomaly. I totally get that Captain American, a man who was frozen in ice for over 50 years knows and has more common sense than a Police Officer on evacuating citizen eek!

Spoon fed much?


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Old Post Jun 25th, 2013 04:45 AM
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Zack Fair
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Earth was lucky Zod did not have his dozen + kryptonians wreck hell.


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Old Post Jun 25th, 2013 04:59 AM
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Mindship
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Metropolis or the whole world? Well, the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few...in this case, the need to survive.

This is not your father's Superman. Was never meant to be. I, personally, wanted to see massive destruction, and this flick delivered. But I can understand the disappointment(?) many feel.


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Old Post Jun 25th, 2013 10:29 AM
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Darth Thor
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Oh who cares? He was a Newb. And it was awesome seeing Noob Superman wrecklessly fight Zod all over the place.

Plus it really will be believable now if people support Lex against Superman. Kind of reminded me of the JLU episode when Superman fights Captain Marvel completely recklessly, and by the end of it Lex has all the good PR.

For those who hate that, and want Superman being the sensible and careful good guy, and Lex being obviously evil to everyone, go watch Superman Returns again.

Old Post Jun 25th, 2013 01:56 PM
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super pr*xy
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ooohh, I forgot the superman/shazam fight.. they did do a f*ck ton of damage..

anyways, I think a fraction of metropolis is a small price for the salvation of the entire human race and the planet..


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Old Post Jun 25th, 2013 04:29 PM
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Mindship
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Plus it really will be believable now if people support Lex against Superman. Kind of reminded me of the JLU episode when Superman fights Captain Marvel completely recklessly, and by the end of it Lex has all the good PR.
That was a good episode.

I tend to really like when superheroes are seen as outsiders, something to be feared because they're not understood, or the powers-that-be feel their security is being threatened. It's one of the reasons I always liked the Surfer. Now if Superman gets that treatment...not only would it be more realistic (imo), but it sets up lots of potential for interesting drama between "us" and "him."


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Old Post Jun 25th, 2013 05:21 PM
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Robtard
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Re: Death Toll in Man of Steel

100,000 dead and 2 trillion in damage pales considerably compared to 7 billion dead (extinction) and the entire sum of the humanities' finances.

I really don't understand the "people died and shit was wrecked" complaints, it's a superhero film where the planet/humanity was threatened, not a Care Bears movie.

edit: would anyone really have wanted some scene of Superman calling out Zod and crew to settle their dispute in a desert, Zod accepting like a dunce and all we see is sand dunes being leveled, or similar?


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Last edited by Robtard on Jun 25th, 2013 at 06:19 PM

Old Post Jun 25th, 2013 06:09 PM
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emporerpants
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Yeah, all it really is is people hating on the movie unfairly. Either they buy all the hate from the critics or they just plain don't like anything with supes in it and want to do whatever they can to make him look bad. Did everyone forget that zod said he was going to kill every human on the planet? He wanted to kill people to hurt Superman. He freaking said exactly that.

How could Supes have taken him out of Metropolis? Zod can fly at that point. If Supes tried to lead him away he would have simply not followed and wrecked the city further and the death toll would have risen even further until Supes came back, because Zod knew that killing people would hurt Supes.

Seriously, just because the avengers didn't focus on the destruction doesn't mean it didn't occur. That's just ignorant. It's pretty retarded to harp on the fact that people might have died during Supes's and Zod's fight and then give the avengers a free pass on the same thing. Anyone saying that people weren't killed during the avengers battle is in denial. Terrible terrible denial.

Let's also look at Thor's movie. When the destroyer armor showed up and Thor got his powers back, did he take the fight out of the town? No, he actually CREATED A DAMN TORNADO IN THE CENTER OF THAT TOWN. There is no way people didn't die because of that. Why does no one complain about that?


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Old Post Jun 25th, 2013 06:58 PM
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