What is everyone's thoughts on the plot for Batman Begins? I recently read a review of the script and i sounds very good! It also spoke of a big and unexpected plot twist! Any ideas what this could be?
__________________ With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censored, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably.These words were uttered by Judge Aaron Satie -- as awisdom, and warning. The first time any man's freedom is trodden on, we're all damaged.
"One ought never to turn one's back on a threatened danger and try to run away from it. If you do that, you will double the danger. But if you meet it promptly and without flinching, you will reduce the danger by half.-----Sir Winston Churchill
I would never want to read the script before watching a movie. Talk about ruining the surprise.
__________________ "Men curse the Communist Party, but eventually it may release them. If hell were endless, then God would be worse than our Secret Police."--Pastor Valentin
Also its good advertising as more people can look forward to the film knowing what to expect.
__________________ With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censored, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably.These words were uttered by Judge Aaron Satie -- as awisdom, and warning. The first time any man's freedom is trodden on, we're all damaged.
"One ought never to turn one's back on a threatened danger and try to run away from it. If you do that, you will double the danger. But if you meet it promptly and without flinching, you will reduce the danger by half.-----Sir Winston Churchill
Nah they're making it better and truer to the spirit of batman than ever this time Wuta.You won't be disappointed, especially if you compare it to the last 2(they sucked ass!).Trust Kal-el.Trust him!
DISCLAIMER
----THE FOLLOWING SCRIPT IS FROM filmforce.ign.com----
Just to be clear: I will not give away any major (or even many minor) SPOILERS, at least nothing that hasn't already been disclosed on the Internet. The plot has slowly been revealed online for the last several weeks and this draft confirmed many, if not all, of the rumors buzzing around.
By the way, don't anybody e-mail me asking for the script. I DON'T HAVE IT. I was only allowed the opportunity to read it not to possess it. And I won't tell you anything more about the story than what's discussed here. Period. I respect the filmmakers far too much to undermine their efforts. If anything I hope this review will only allay whatever fears some fans might still harbor about the project and to excite them even further about next summer's release.
In short, Batman Begins is ... a Western! The story features a gruff loner with a thirst for revenge who comes to town to rid it of the outlaws and corrupt officials bedeviling it. This man of violence can only trust a few townsfolk for help (I guess that makes Jim Gordon the quintessential one good deputy) and he must rely on his incomparable physical skills to get the job done. If that isn't a traditional Western plot then I don't know what is. As a huge fan of that genre, I appreciated those parallels.
Batman Begins, as you most likely already know, is an origin tale. The first 45 pages employ a non-linear structure that recounts what drove Bruce Wayne (Bale) to assume the mantle of Batman, how he developed his fighting skills (and who taught him some new tricks), and how he focused his rage into something beneficial rather than purely selfish and destructive.
During his bleak sojourn in the Far East, twenty-something Bruce Wayne's already impressive fighting skills are honed under the tutelage of Ducard (Neeson), the top henchman of enigmatic international criminal Ra's al Ghul (Watanabe). After breaking with Ra's and his League of Shadows, Bruce returns to Gotham City, which has hit rock bottom during his absence. Crime and corruption is fast eating away at the city and no one seems able to stem it.
An honest cop like Sgt. – later Lieutenant – Jim Gordon (Oldman) are outgunned, overwhelmed, and simply too vulnerable to cross the powers-that-be alone. His crooked partner Flass doesn't like it that Gordon won't take bribes (shades of Batman: Year One and even Serpico).
Gotham is essentially ruled by mob boss Carmine Falcone. The D.A.'s office, run by Fisk (Larry Holden), hasn't been able to bring down Falcone or any of the corrupt officials on his payroll. One young assistant district attorney is Rachel Dodson (Holmes) who has known Bruce since they were kids. She is pained to see what's become of her childhood friend (and implied sweetheart) but she has a job to do. Like Batman, Rachel also fights for justice but, in some ways, she's wiser about what it takes to serve it than Bruce is at this stage of his life.
Even once venerable Wayne Industries has been tainted by corruption. Earle, the executive placed in charge of the company until orphaned Bruce comes of age, has taken it down a path neither Bruce nor his dad would have approved. Needless to say, Earle is just one of the many obstacles Bruce must confront in his quest to clean up Gotham.
Remember The Joker's line from the first Batman, "where does he get those wonderful toys?" This story answers that question. The specifics about Bruce's gizmos are available elsewhere online but this sequence was one of the most entertaining ones in the script. It's like one prolonged meeting between Bruce as Bond and Wayne Industries exec Lucius Fox (Freeman) unwittingly playing the role of Q.
Once Batman makes his presence known in Gotham, he makes the takedown of Carmine Falcone his primary objective. During the course of this campaign, Batman forges an alliance with Jim Gordon and uncovers a vast conspiracy against Gotham involving Arkham Asylum's head shrink Dr. Jonathan Crane (Murphy) and others. This climactic struggle will test all of Bruce's newfound skills and pit him against enemies he did not expect to encounter
Batman Begins is a complete restart of the franchise. In this draft, there's no Jack Napier; Joe Chill is the killer of Thomas and Martha Wayne. While there are a few relatively minor alterations to the established origin story (they don't go in town to see The Mark of Zorro, for example), Batman Begins was faithful to the spirit of the Batman comics of the last thirty years.
Astute fans will recognize elements from the works of Denny O'Neil, Archie Goodwin, Len Wein, Jeph Loeb, Steve Englehart, Mike Barr, Paul Dini, and, of course, Frank Miller. David Goyer may claim that "our movie is not Year One" but this story was obviously heavily influenced by it, right down to the inclusion of crooked cops Flass and Loeb. There's even a climactic sequence similar to one seen in The Dark Knight Returns that was a nice touch.
An unsung but apparent contribution to Batman Begins may be Tim McCanlies' unproduced pilot for Bruce Wayne (the WB went with Smallville instead). Both Bruce Wayne and Batman Begins feature a young Bruce who returns to Gotham after studying and training abroad where he discovers that the Wayne business has been corrupted by the executive charged with maintaining it. A superficial but noteworthy similarity to be sure.
Four years ago I reviewed Tom Mankiewicz's unproduced 1983 draft of The Batman. In that review, I said "that Mankiewicz did the two things that Sam Hamm [screenwriter of 1989's Batman] wisely avoided. I remember an old Comics Scene Magazine interview with Hamm where he said he wanted to skip writing the scene where Bruce decided to put on tights and fight crime. Hamm used Batman's first appearance in Detective Comics #27 as his guide. Like that issue's story, Hamm's script begins with Batman already fighting crime before he says that Batman and Bruce Wayne are the same man. Mankiewicz, on the other hand, included an absurdly protracted origin sequence (all of Act One!). ... Can you imagine if there'd been a forty-minute long origin sequence for James Bond in Dr. No? As cool as it is to see the making of a hero, Sam Hamm was right when he told Comics Scene that the audience just wants to get to the part where the guy in the suit starts kicking ass."
What made Goyer's origin story work as opposed to Mankiewicz's is that the latter failed to explore any of the thematic possibilities or moral quandaries about what Bruce Wayne was doing and why he was doing it. Goyer, on the other hand, wisely makes this the crux of his script and that's a large part of what makes Batman Begins work so well.
There are two main reasons why Batman Begins is such a vast improvement over the Batman films that have come before. First, Bruce Wayne is actually the protagonist this time! He drives the narrative forward; it's all about him. The supporting characters, villains included, are there to serve his story not vice-versa. Bruce's transformation into Batman not only covers the nuts-and-bolts aspect of his origin (the physical training, etc.) but it also forces Bruce (and the audience) to ponder the ethical implications of what he's after.
Yes, we know Bruce is doing the right thing by fighting crime but what he initially set out to do was to attain revenge for the murder of his parents. This story answers the question that former Bat-director Tim Burton used to ask about why Bruce decided to dress up as a bat rather than just go get a gun and become another Bernie Goetz.
As in Batman: Year Two, Bruce realizes that killing is not the solution and it is that moral choice that makes him heroic (not just the catching of criminals). This was one of many things that bugged me about past Bat films where the Batmobile had .50 caliber machine guns and Batman offed henchmen.
I was somewhat disappointed that Batman the detective wasn't fully realized. I'm still waiting for the films to properly balance his Sherlock Holmes side with his Dirty Harry side. But at least Goyer and Nolan have put the "Dark" and the "Knight" back into Dark Knight Detective. I also enjoyed how the story made note of the Wayne family's history and of their contributions to Gotham City.
The other reason why Batman Begins is superior to the preceding films was its portrayal of the villains. They are not goofy, scenery-chewing hams in gaudy costumes. When I first read that the filmmakers wanted to ground this new Batman in reality, however, I must admit to being just a little nervous. Memories of Nicholas Hammond's web-slinger beating up boring old farts in leisure suits sprang to mind. This is a superhero adventure, after all.
While both Ra's al Ghul and Jonathan Crane (his later moniker of "Scarecrow" is adequately explained) are less theatrical than in the comics, they certainly resemble their print counterparts and the possibility of a more "comic booky" sequel is established. Ra's reminded me of Blofeld in the early Bond flicks, an enigmatic foe whose presence is felt throughout the film. There's no Talia here, no Lazarus Pit but legend has it that Ra's is immortal. Ra's is like the Keyser Soze of Batman's universe, the international villain no one wants to cross.
__________________ With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censored, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably.These words were uttered by Judge Aaron Satie -- as awisdom, and warning. The first time any man's freedom is trodden on, we're all damaged.
"One ought never to turn one's back on a threatened danger and try to run away from it. If you do that, you will double the danger. But if you meet it promptly and without flinching, you will reduce the danger by half.-----Sir Winston Churchill
Last edited by ash007 on Apr 13th, 2004 at 09:59 PM
Batman Begins definitely reflects a post-9/11 world. The story's main themes of anger, fear, revenge, justice and moral responsibility are undeniably timely. It's also not much of a stretch to see parallels between Ra's al Ghul and Osama bin Laden. Both live in remote mountain hideaways and control a shadowy network of devoted followers, sleeper agents, and financial assets capable of waging terror. I could ramble on about it but you get my point.
Henri Ducard is no mere goon. While essentially Ra's "spokesman" and recruiter, he also mentors a vengeful Bruce who is searching for meaning and direction in his life. (With Neeson in the role, Ducard should seem like the doppleganger of Qui-Gon Jinn with Bruce as his padawan.) Obviously, Bruce rebels against Ducard and Ra's once he realizes what these nice shady fellas are plotting. That was one of my biggest nitpicks with this draft. Bruce knows of Ra's al Ghul and his reputation so how could he possibly be shocked to discover that his outfit has nefarious intentions?!
Dr. Crane is an important albeit secondary character who plays a key role in the ultimate plot against Gotham. While the Scarecrow's fear toxin is utilized in the story, Crane himself is not exactly running around in a burlap sack with straw sticking out of him. I was surprised that Crane worked at all as he's exactly the kind of character that Schumacher and Goldsman would've gone campy with. Cillian Murphy initially seemed like an offbeat choice for the role but, after reading this draft, he's quite an inspired pick.
The rest of the characters are faithful to their comic book renditions. Lucius Fox is what you'd expect. Jim Gordon will be more like his Year One depiction than Neil Hamilton or Pat Hingle. Gary Oldman's casting certainly came out of left field – the British invasion of Gotham City continues – but he should imbue Gordon with an edge. It'll be nice to see Oldman play a good guy for once!
Alfred is Alfred. Isn't that exactly what you want to hear? I love Alfred. He's the soul of both the comics and the films. He's the voice of reason, a surrogate father figure, a partner in crimefighting, and – gasp! – a butler to boot. In other words, he's just like the butler guy on Joe Millionaire. (Kidding!) Alfred's relationship with Bruce was one of my favorite things about this story. I can't wait to see Caine and Bale onscreen together.
The only major character I had any real issue with was Rachel. While I was glad that she wasn't some arbitrary love interest or damsel-in-distress, Rachel was rather wooden and burdened with acting as Bruce's conscience, stodgy dialogue and all. Not all of Bruce's lines worked, either; some were too on-the-nose and comic booky in their heavy-handedness.
Rachel serves a function in the story, which made her better than Chase Meridian or Vicki Vale, but I won't reveal what she does exactly. Once you see the film, you'll understand why they didn't need a young Harvey Dent in it.
Now for the action sequences! There is a hell's bells Batmobile chase through Gotham that will blow you away. There are also plenty of fisticuffs and acrobatics throughout. With the arguable exception of Batman Forever, we'll finally get to see Bruce fight sans mask. It's a good thing Christian Bale did Equilibrium because those skills are going to come in handy here!
Overall, Batman Begins was a huge relief and a great fresh start for Warner Brothers' ill-treated franchise. Goyer and Nolan's story was exciting, smart, and faithful to its source material. It managed to be both emotionally intimate and epic in scale, entertaining as a popcorn flick yet thoughtful enough to be appreciated on a more adult level.
With its great ensemble cast, talented director, and Goyer's solid script, Batman Begins has every opportunity to be the Batman film we've all been waiting for (some feel since 1989). It should do for DC films what the X-Men movies and Spider-Man did for Marvel, which was to legitimize the genre again for both fans and filmmakers. In short: you won't be disappointed!
I still recall the joke that was going around when Burton's Batman opened. "Wow, did you see how much money Batman made?!" "Yeah, now imagine how much it would've made if it was good." Come next summer Warner Brothers will learn the happy answer to that question and it will be because they finally treated Batman (and his fans) with respect.
-=------This was a extract from filmforce.ign.com --------
__________________ With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censored, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably.These words were uttered by Judge Aaron Satie -- as awisdom, and warning. The first time any man's freedom is trodden on, we're all damaged.
"One ought never to turn one's back on a threatened danger and try to run away from it. If you do that, you will double the danger. But if you meet it promptly and without flinching, you will reduce the danger by half.-----Sir Winston Churchill
the Batman begins script does seem pretty kick ass, i am still intrigued to the alledged "twist" in the plot. It is a pretty strong rumor i just cant figure out what the twist might be???
indeed i hope its nothing to stupid that will ruin the history of Batman
__________________ With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censored, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably.These words were uttered by Judge Aaron Satie -- as awisdom, and warning. The first time any man's freedom is trodden on, we're all damaged.
"One ought never to turn one's back on a threatened danger and try to run away from it. If you do that, you will double the danger. But if you meet it promptly and without flinching, you will reduce the danger by half.-----Sir Winston Churchill
I can't stand it when comic-movies run a character's history. I mean in the first one, the whole Joker thing was understandably and tolerable, but if they go and change a whole chunk that's just unbearable.
I want this Bat movie to be more like the first, I think that one was the best one made. It was darker and had more of a Batman feel to it
I have a feeling this movie will be dark but it will action i mean thats what people will be expecting
__________________ With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censored, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably.These words were uttered by Judge Aaron Satie -- as awisdom, and warning. The first time any man's freedom is trodden on, we're all damaged.
"One ought never to turn one's back on a threatened danger and try to run away from it. If you do that, you will double the danger. But if you meet it promptly and without flinching, you will reduce the danger by half.-----Sir Winston Churchill
i just hope this rachel girl doesn't ruin it...i HATE it when they pair him up with some stupid bimbo only coz he has to have a girl on his side!now it's a totally different story when he dates bimbos to be labled a playboy but in the films they actually make vruce interested in them!!!
I think Begins is gonna be awesome, but I don't want to read any spoilers, that would ruin it for me. I just wanna know one thing, yes or no. Do Ra's Al Ghul have a cool fight at the end?
And I agree with youpunkyhermy, I hope Rachel doesn't ruin this movie.
__________________ Do not go gentle into that good night my lovely
Rage, Rage...
Against the dyin' of the light
For there shall be no mercy...
For any force that stands...
Blocking this path of his righteousness
Creechuur>are you saying that Bruce Wayne fights Ra's and not Batman?
__________________ Do not go gentle into that good night my lovely
Rage, Rage...
Against the dyin' of the light
For there shall be no mercy...
For any force that stands...
Blocking this path of his righteousness
Gender: Unspecified Location: San Jose CA United States of Murrka
Bruce, Bats, Ra's, and Ducard all duke it out together. All I can say without ruining it.
Further, all the spy reports and photos jive with the script I've read so far. It may have been updated, and I hope some changes were made, but that script is pretty accuarate as far as I can tell.
__________________
"Did Braveheart run away? Did Payback run away?"
That's all intersting. THERE'S JUST ONE HUGE THING BUGGING ME, about this pretty decent script.
RAS DOES NOT CROSS PATHS WITH BRUCE WAYNE BEFORE HE'S BATMAN!!!!!
It's really irking the hell outta me. It's a sad thing too, because Im ACTUALLY OKAY, with most of this story so far. But faithfullness to the bible (comic) is so important to me in any comic movie. And I have to give it to the Spidey Team for getting it the closest. So what the slingers were bio-slingers, small detail taken away....FOR A ARGUABLY GOOD REASON. If people were worried about Peter's Science strength being compromised, they can always have him in invent something else in another sequel.
But this Batman flaw to me, is a bit of a problem. You see a good plot point for the real RAS, is that he discovered Batman's I.D. on his own, and being such a wise being who has lived for centuries, choses one human to wed his daughter and become his successor. THAT is an incredible plot for Batman, hands down it cannot be touched. There is instant conflict.
Sure they MAY STILL use this story in a sequel, BUT, the problem is RAS ALLREADY knows who Batman is, AND Partly trains HIM!!?? Ofcourse he knows where he lives, it takes the coolness away. Plus there are a MILLION masters in the DC universe, all of which Batman gains from, WHY OH WHY did they make RAS a "master". To me that was a Cop out.
Ras has NO part in the creation of Batman, Not skills, not detective work, not Science...NADA! Ducard yes,..Ras no. I know Goyer wanted RAS in the Franchise so bad, he could have easily done it without altering his history. RAS kind of sounds like Lady Shiva or somthing.
Assasins he does have, yes, mixing the young Bruce in there is just wrong. I'll still go see it, but, it annoys me allot because when something is made into a motion picture, it's almost saying "HEY WORLD HERE'S WHAT YOU SHOULD REMEMBER ABOUT THIS CHARACTER", and I dont see how it's helpfull to have people gaining knowledge they dont really know about Batman, when it's NOT EVEN accurate. They'll watch the movie and say "OH now I see". Then go to the book and Say..."huh this sucks". Goyer hacked almost every other aspect of the script near perfect...WHY NOT THIS PART.
And the Gripe stems from the fact that...next to the mainstay of The Joker, RAS is THE BIG ONE of Batman villains, who's story is allready perfect as it is.
And here's more. It seems like RAS will be a constant in this series, and will probably end at part 3 cool, what no lazeras pits? Now those cool tests that Ras makes Batman go through cannot be done.
The final showdown will be based on nothing more than their history together in Bruce's Training that went sour....NOT the fact that Bruce rejects the throne of the Demon, and though he loves her, REFUSES to marry his Daughter. ANd NO PITS??? What Kind of showdown will that BE?? BOOO??
Like I said this is the best script since 1989, but to me the RAS error is worst than the bio-websligers.
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Apr 6th, 2004 10:07 PM
