Some people say rap isn't real music. I remember hearing Jack White from the White Stripes start ripping into rap, saying there's no musicality to it. What the heck is he talking about?
Sure, there might not be a lot of chord progressions or what not, but there isn't in a lot of songs...so where do you draw the line?
yep, the music might be more simplistic then other styles, but if you look at 50 Cent and guys like that, then ofcourse you'll only see the basic, crappy side of hip hop. Its like forming an opinion of rock after only listening to Simple Plan and Nickelback
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Yeah you're right. It's just that Jack White said "rap music". Hip Hop then...
I don't think so. Musically, there's tons of creativity going on with beats, samples (yes...samples can be used creatively even though they're still samples), and effects...not to mention synths and electronic elements, as well as what the more well-up groups like The Roots do, using instruments.
...And when it comes to just the rapping itself , there's a certain genius to it that can't be found in other music...just like there's a certain genius to opera singing that can't be found in anything but opera.
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Last edited by EPIIIBITES on Mar 11th, 2007 at 02:05 AM
Lyrical geniuses in hip hop are actually few and far between, if you compare the actual number of great lyricists, with overall hip hop lyricists. There are quite a few great and brilliant lyricists, but not many lyrical geniuses. You don't need to be a genius, though.
I wouldn't suggest for a second that anything 50 Cent does is genius.
I think what you're partly getting at is any music that "can" be easy to make or immitate (techno, hip hop) can easily be made badly. And you could probably fake being a bad rapper easier than you can fake being a bad vocalist.
Still though, I think rap gets too much flak cause it sounds simple.
African drum music is simple...is it not creative? Is it not considered musical?
There's a difference between simple music made with instruments and an idiot rhyming frivolously over some dodgy computer-made beat, with the sole, soulless intention of earning cash.
well, i woudln't necessarily venture to say that its all geared toward sending some twisted message out to kids, which is where the genre is being whored out too. I don't fault lil Jon or I guess D4L for making their music, its just club music, shit to dance to. so obviously there is no effort needed in their music, since your dancing to it. Have you ever taken to time to listen to the words of an acual club song.....jeez
I guess the real problem would come from the ones who market and promote that stuff, and intern give the misinterpretation that that is real Hip-Hop, but then again how can you whole heartedly define the genre past its 4 elements?
"Rap" is just an ugly word. KRS One once said "Rap is something you do, Hip Hop is something you live". That said, "rapping" about your life still isn't Hip Hop.
I understand that Hip Hop has been redefined, even in the past decade, and that it's more lenient than ever. Whereas it used to be about having a positive message, now it's just who can make the most creative rhymes. Actual rap music is marketed as Hip Hop, as if to suggest there are ties. If you go retrospective in labeling genres, is NWA "Hip Hop"? ****, no. There's no difference between the lyrical content of NWA and The Game, who's regarded as a "Hip Hop" artist.
It really pisses me off that, like I said, there's this forced distortion that's come upon the genre. I grew up on this shit..it's in my blood.
True Hip Hop died with Biggie, which was 10 years ago this past week.
...the vocals he laid down are a perfect example of what I would call genius when it comes to this art from...and something that can't be found in what other people would call "real" music. When it comes to creativity, expressiveness and sheer musicality, what he simply does vocally towers over a lot of bands that I consider to be low average (like Nickleback)...but somehow Nickleback are often seen as being more musical than hip-hop or rap.
And that's the thing...I think scratches are music, I think beat-boxing is music, and I think somebody getting the audience to yell back "f*ck this and f*ck that" is music.
If a song's been put together, everything you hear, every sound that makes up the song now can be considered music and considered as having musicality...but hip hop (or rap) gets nailed for not being that, probably because there might not be guitars or singing in it.
I don't think that makes much sense.
Music is simply an aural art form. It's an art form that uses sound...that's it. As soon as people try to define what constitutes actual music or having musicality, they're backing themselves into a corner.
Take something like a drum solo (which of course is considered music)…to beat boxing (which is basically percussion done with the mouth)…to rapping (which is basically a percussive form of singing)...and somehow many people would only consider the drummer a musician. Doesn't make sense.
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Last edited by EPIIIBITES on Mar 11th, 2007 at 03:36 PM
I don't think the actual act of "rapping" is music, it's poetry, so it's an artform. The background, of course that's music, synthetic or natural. I didn't mean to get so carried away, and off topic.
There's a difference between most poetry and most rap though. There's more musicality to rap in how it's read out than with poetry...and this is what I mean by the grey area...because a lot of rappers hit certain notes or a pitch when they read out the rap...poets don't really do that.
Of course there's intentional rhyming in poetry, and they make a point of putting emphasis on certain things when they read it out, but the emphasis isn't as much on what pitch or notes the words will fall on...it's more or less what's already visible on paper (the visible rhyming of the words...as well as other things like punctuation and form).
Rap though is more musical than that. You might have a rapper yell something out in the verse, but also sing some lines in the chorus...so what of those is music then? Some of it? All of it?
Well, as far as I see, it's a song...it's a piece of art using instrumentation to make sounds...And yes, the mouth can be used as an instrument...that's what I showed with the whole drumming...to beat-box...to rapping thing. I mean, most musicians consider it an instrument when people sing, so why couldn't it be an instrument when people rap (and hit certain tones and pitches)? That's the difference with poety, which doesn't really use the mouth as an instrument per se.
...and really, how do we know the first form of music might not very well have been some guy beat-boxing or scatting or something?
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Last edited by EPIIIBITES on Mar 11th, 2007 at 04:20 PM
Take "So Whatcha Want" by the Beasties. There's no poem I've hear that's read out like that...simply because what they're doing when they're rapping is being musical.
Scratch that "scatting" part...cause again, most people would say that's musical...and probably say beat-boxing isn't. But maybe that's where it all started...who knows?
As far as I've always known, rap is a form of singing...hip hop is a style of music that incorporates rap...and the term "rap music" is what white execs in suits simply address as hip hop, just because most of it has rapping in it.
Is that right?
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Last edited by EPIIIBITES on Mar 11th, 2007 at 04:40 PM
There isn't much musicality in hip hop with regards to musicianship. Hardly any.
So he's right in that sense. Hip hop has never been about being a great musician in terms of instruments, but it doesn't change the fact that hardly any of them are.
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Mar 11th, 2007 01:49 AM
Yeah you're right. It's just that Jack White said "rap music". Hip Hop then...
