Revan would be the DLOTS.. Why would Nihilus be a DLOTS? Revan is more powerful and Nihilus doesn't give two shits about the sith or the Jedi, he's just hungry.
The Sith Empire is arranged by power, correct? I didn't think that keeping the faith is a requirement.
Besides, Nihilus targetted the Jedi. Only after they were all dead would he turn on the Sith. And is that anything out of the ordinary? Betraying your fellows for greater power is a time-honored Sith tradition. If nothing else, Nihilus understood the tactical advantages of keeping the Sith around or he would have just started eating all of them instead of finishing off the Jedi first.
And Lord Bane and Andeddu did not seem upset by the fact he was featured alongside them.
__________________ "No, when Luke uses anger he turns into Stevie Wonder at batting practice."
[QUOTE=8826643]Originally posted by Nikkolas The Sith Empire is arranged by power, correct? I didn't think that keeping the faith is a requirement.
Except for the fact that he'll kill sith just as well as Jedi, he cares nothing for the sith tradition. And yes the sith empire is still arranged in power which would make either Revan or Kun the DLOTS with Nihilus being a sith lord.
I don't recall them paying any attention to him whatsoever.
Nihilus never cared about Sith teachings. He only cared about his hunger and would turn against the Sith, once he had dealt with the Jedi.
But the problem is that he would actually eat the Sith and not rule over them as a DLOTS. He was an ultimate killing machine that needed to be stopped. And guess what? a Sith Lord Darth Traya already planned his demise (using Exile for the job), before he could turn against the Sith too.
Nihilus (despite having all the valid traits for consideration as a DLOTS and being very powerful) is actually a victim of his hunger and he is weak in this regard. And according to Sith teachings, if a weakness is discovered in a Sith Lord - that Sith Lord must be destroyed or unseated.
EDIT
I agree with Darth Sexy that Darth Revan is a perfect option for being crowned as a DLOTS. He is even considered to be a candidate for Sith'ari.
Last edited by S_W_LeGenD on Apr 26th, 2007 at 12:33 PM
You have any proof whatsoever Revan is stronger than Nihilus?
Kun is more arguable but nothing I've ever heard of Revan puts him anywhere near those two in terms of power.
And the Sith will kill each other for greater power... Nihilus will dot hat too but in a more primal way.
Did any of them even talk to each other or just to Krayt?
And a Sith will turn on another Sith for greater power...
That's because she doesn't want all life in the Galaxy sacrified to his hunger.
And she also happens to be Palpatine's female counterpart ie. she's a few steps ahead of everyone around her via manipulation.
This is actually a valid point. But how does one go about exploiting his weakness to usurp him?
Then again, with the combination of Revan's tactical genius and Kreia's conniving mind...they could destroy him through some non-forward method. As to the exact nature of the method they could concot, I have no idea.
__________________ "No, when Luke uses anger he turns into Stevie Wonder at batting practice."
Uh, yea, some of us have been offering it from day 1. He knews a LOT more ancient sith techniques than Nihilus and according to sources from KOTOR, his raw force abilities were on another level. Nihilus just has his force drain.
Except at the very least, he is on par with Nihilus, while realistically he and Kun are more powerful than Nihilus
Andeddu acknowledged Bane, that was it.
Kun and his sith magic/amulets, Revan and his ancient sith techniques, would destroy Nihilus. Sorry but he's not more powerful than either of them.
Do we have any statements on how much Ancient Sith knowledge he gained?
What sources? What do they actually say? Nihilus wasn't even around in KOTOR as far as we know.
You really need to stop that. Nihilus has shown a good variety of powers such as stun, choke, TK, consciousness transferal, some power to keep people alive.
True his drain is his most prominent and distinctive power but it's not his only.
What canon powers does Revan have? Force lightning Storm? Some TP?
What do you mean "realistically?" What does Revan have that makes him more powerful than Nihilus?
Do you know if the scans are on SWTimeline?
So Kun walks up to Nihilus? Nihilus drains the life out of him.
Just by being in Nihilus' presence is said to drain The Force from people.
He can do it steadily or just fully drain you and Kun is not surviving Nihilus' full drain at the very least.
What techniques? Name some.
Kun has a chance with his amulet blasts and that's all.
Revan has no chance until I see something that proves he has even close to the power Nihilus does.
Kun is close but Revan is most definitely not.
__________________ "No, when Luke uses anger he turns into Stevie Wonder at batting practice."
According to POD, he had a wide range of ancient sith knowledge.
So what? Having one technique doesn't make you more powerful than someone who has tons. Revan and Kun both have tons.
You really need to stop that. Nihilus has shown a good variety of powers such as stun, choke, TK, consciousness transferal, some power to keep people alive.
True his drain is his most prominent and distinctive power but it's not his only.[/quote]
Choke, stun, and TK are basic.
I guess his version of the force storm would be the one Bane needed the entire brotherhood for, except Revan was able to perform it himself. He has the thought bomb, and other listless ancient sith techniques. Not to mention he ripped a language from a force sensitive species and gave them basic.
From logical deduction, he has more abilities, more techniques, and more raw force potential.
I highly doubt it.
Unlikely, Kun walks up to him and disintegrates him with the amulet blast.
Don't remember anything like that, didn't see Traya or Sion "drained".
And Nihilus isn't surviving Kun's sith magic or amulet blasts.
A chance? No, Kun has a victory with his amulet blasts and sith magic. Notice how when he had the amulet on, the "wall of light" technique, which takes the force away from a user, wasn't successful on him, so it's logical that he could either survive the drain, or possibly even stop it.
That's your opinion as the official Nihilus fanboy who's on here 24/7, but you haven't brought any argument here that puts Nihilus above Kun or Revan.
Good thing your opinion is reinforced by a cogent argument. Oh wait.
Almost single-handedly destroying an entire Sith army on Star Forge, defeating the SF backed Bastilla 4 times in a row and then eliminating the SF empowered Malak in a single combat.
This feat alone shows us the true measure of his power.
Without the use of Super-Drain, Nihilus cannot gain victory in such circumstances.
The Jedi Masters of KOTOR era knew both Kun and Revan well and they considered both of them to be formidable threats. It is hard to decide that who was better among these two Sith Lords but Revan himself once said that the Sith of his time were more powerful then before and that included him.
And so would any other Sith Lord.
But the problem is that Nihilus would eat the Sith too. Others will not.
I agree but Nihilus will turn on the Sith themselves to eat them. His quest was not for achieveing greater power like in the case of other Sith Lords.
She is sensible after-all.
Agreed.
You already answered your question.
Last edited by S_W_LeGenD on Apr 26th, 2007 at 01:27 PM
When the technique kills planets, I'd say it does.
And quality over quantity. What good are unspecified "tons" of knowledge over one technique we know can kill a planet and dozens of Jedi and a Force-sensitive race?
Show me one instance of Revan stunning anyone.
And TK'ing on Nihilus' level is not even close to basic. Far above anything Revan has ever said or shown to be capable of.
And the ability to keep people alive via The Force and consciousness transferal is not basic.
Thought Bomb = Technique needed to be used by many and still not even as strong as Nihilus' drain which he can do by hismelf...by speaking.
And this Force Storm...didn't it kill like one small scouting party of Rakata?
I know I saw that argument going on between Advent, LS and someone. Maybe you. i'll check.
Prove his potential is above Nihilus'?
And again, quality over quanity. I'll take one proven planet-killing ability over unspecified and unknown powers.
If he can even get it off before Nihilus starts chucking him around with The Force....Or is Kun harder to lift than The Ravager?
Kreia: "{Chiding} Power? Do you think so? {Shakes head} You would be wrong. There is no strength in the hunger he possesses... and the will behind his power is a primal thing. And it devours him as he devours others - his mere presence kills all around him, slowly, feeding him. He is already dead; it is simply a question of how many he kills before he falls.”
It's not an insta-win but it seems that simply by being near him is bad for your health.
That's true.
Yes because Wall of Light = planetary-level defense.
Nihilus' drain strips flesh from bone, destroys buildings and encompasses the the entire surface of a planet. I'd say that is more than Kun can block with just an amulet...
He killed a planet by speaking. Can lift a fleet with his TK. When starving, then further weakened, he was still "too powerful" for The Mandalore, The Exile and Visas. Other Force users are nothing to him and only entire planet's worth of energy are even worth caring about.
Revan has...Force Storm.
Not Sidious' Force Storm, either.
Kun is his only rival as far as I'm concerned.
__________________ "No, when Luke uses anger he turns into Stevie Wonder at batting practice."
Average Malak is nothing all that special when compared to upper-tier. Do we have any evidence how strong Malak with the Star Forge is?
Statements or feats?
I don't deny Revan is powerful.
His Tk be useful.
Doesn't mean they're close in power unless they said "Revan is as big a threat as Exar" or "his power rivals Kun's" or something.
Just means they're both threats. Anything can be a threat and for a lot of reasons.
Revan's words do not equal fact. We've seen Kun do things Revan hasn't.
A lot of things.
__________________ "No, when Luke uses anger he turns into Stevie Wonder at batting practice."
And Revan did not gained immense power just through knowledge. He actually proved his worth through his abilities and deeds.
Malak could Force Stun multiple opponents. Now Malak was trained by Revan? was he not?
Drew K - the creator of Revan said that he could lift heavy objects if he concentrated properly. Guess what? an opinion of an expert matters a lot.
But I would agree that Nihilus' TK was also of immense level. It is safe to rate him among the most powerful Force Users of all times.
He crushed an entire Rakatan army with the Force near the Rakatan Temple and not just a single scouting party. This was revealed by the Loremaster but he is a bit hesitant to reveal all the details unless you have strong enough influence.
Quote1: "The Force flows through you like no student we have seen before" - a Jedi Master in KOTOR (others also agree with his comment)
Quote2: "Revan was power. Staring into his eyes was like staring into the heart of the Force" - Jedi Master Kriea
Quote3: "The Force is so strong in you" - Ancient DLOTS Ajunta Pall
Now what does these quotes tell you?
A few known capabilies of Revan are:
- Force Lightning Storm
- Stasis Field
- Strong TK abilities
- Force Wave
- Force Whirlwind
- Choke
And he knows lots of other things too. Some of the techniques he knows are too dangerous to try as revealed by Darth Bane (POD).
Does this seems low to you?
Nihilus' presense slowly effects all around him and does not instantly weakens people around him. Revan is certainly immune to this kind of effect.
Last edited by S_W_LeGenD on Apr 26th, 2007 at 02:00 PM
Alright then. What canon powers and feats can we give him? What is said and what is shown that we can quantify his power with?
Point.
Define "heavy objects"? An W-wing is heavy....
I agree. I do not overrate Nihilus' power as far as I know. I give full credit to the powers demonstrated by others such as Kun, Kyp, etc.. But I just don't see enough of Revan to say he's stronger than Nihilus.
Hm...
Would you happen to have the quote?
Not doubting just would like to read it for myself 'cause i never heard that before in all the topics I've seen with Revan.
This Jedi Master knows Nihilus?
It tells me he is strong, which I do not deny. Kreia also said of Nihilus that his power is so great, he doesn't even see things as we do. This is later clarified with the quotes about him seeing planets and stars and people being relatively nothing.
I don't think Nihilus ever met any Ancient Sith.
Too dangerous period or too dangerous for the young Darth Bane to know or what?
I never said his powers were low or he was weak.
Possibly. We don't know how long he was actually exposed to anyone once he became like that except the people on his ship. So we can't guage its effect on Force users.
__________________ "No, when Luke uses anger he turns into Stevie Wonder at batting practice."
I will send a detailed summary about Revan's power and feats to you through PM. So better wait for it.
Examples can be: Objects as heavy as a TIE Fighter, Truck etc...
Revan is indeed stronger than Nihilus in some aspects of the Force, if not all.
Actually I posted it in a thread in this forum but I do not remember the name of that thread now. And KOTOR is not even installed in my system. So I can't help much in this regard but I will explain some details regarding this in my Summary that I will PM you!
I do not know about this but he knows Kun well.
I agree that Nihilus became very powerful but Kriea also hinted on the power of Revan. All I can say is that both of these Sith were very powerful.
Off Topic: He met Krayt though and made fun of him! hehehe!
Anyways! Revan did met one and that ancient Sith was not an ordinary person. And Ajunta was clearly amazed by the strength of Revan in the Force.
Darth Bane was a talented person and he possibly studied from large number of Sith Archives in Korriban and we know that Korriban is like a treasure of Sith knowledge. Even then he was amazed by the knowledge of Revan.
I can safely say that Revan is the 2nd most knowledgeable Sith after Sidious.
Well! Revan and Nihilus never failed to amaze any person they engaged against.
Revan is certainly immune to this kind of effect because of his strong defensive abilities.
Last edited by S_W_LeGenD on Apr 26th, 2007 at 04:02 PM
Right, being the heart of the force doesn't equate to power.
Nihilus drained A planet. Revan knew the technique to destroy Jedi and Sith(thought bomb), the force storm, etc. His knowledge and power>Nihilus
A PLANET with an unknown number of Jedi, so stop speculating. Since there were less than 100 Jedi left alive and most left the order, there could have been 5 jedi on Katarr, or less, you don't know.
Uh youre messing with gameplay mechanics right now, because you don't know if Nihilus canonically had stun as well, double standards?
Denial can be a *****
Uh, yea, the thought bomb is the second most deadly technique next to Sidious' force storm. It traps the life force of Jedi and Sith alike forever. I'd say that's more powerful than draining one planet.
The same force storm that took out the entire forest on Ruusan
Being the heart of the force, and all the verball given to him. Nihilus' power comes from him being a wound, there was nothing noteworthy or known about him before the events of Malachor except that he was one of the sith in Revan's empire.
Good for you, I'll take numerous amounts of ancient sith techniques, sith magic, and sith alchemy over 1 drained planet.
Oh right, because Nihilus was chucking around Visas, Mandalore, Traya, etc, with the force. Oh wait, he wasn't chucking anyone with the force. Kun would curbstomp him.
Gee, somebody was asleep for the destruction of Yavin IV. One person using the wall of light can take away the force from somebody, and Kun's amulet was more than likely the defnense for it.
Yet Kun's amulet blast is instant and would disintegrate Nihilus. Hell, I doubt Nihilus can drain Kun in the first place, seeing as how he's never faced anyone as powerful.
Killed a planet by speaking, lol.. Good one. Lift a fleet? AKA the ravager. I guess Kyp Durron is a force god.
Yea, Revan has one technique, that's why Bane stated that the knowledge and techniques Revan showed Bane were more valuable than ANYTHING on Korriban. Bye bye Nihilus.
Revan would never submit to Nihilus, no matter Nihilus's abilities. And Nihilus cares nothing for the Sith. In a Sith Empire where the Jedi are dead or hard to come by, Nihilus would just turn on his own.
He only uses the Sith to further his own goals, and once the Jedi are gone, they're next. For all intents and purposes, he's no Sith.
DLOTS
Revan
Sith Lords
Traya
Malak
Sion
Marauders
Bandon
Actually, MAYBE Sion.
__________________ Recently Produced and Distributed Young but High-Ranking Political Figure of Royal Ancestry within the Modern American Town Affectionately Referred To as Bel-Air.
Gameplay has nothing to do with that feat. Revan was the one who actually turned the tide of that war. And he was called The Prodigal Knight for a good reason by Master Vandar.
Average Malak is on level of Count Dooku, if not better and he still knows more techniques.
And Malak put up an exceptional fight on the Star Forge. What indication did you got from that?
No one can. He is not just powerful but very powerful.
They said that both were significant threats. This means that they both were powerful enough to give immense trouble to the Republic and the Jedi Order of their times.
The level of threat is determined by power.
Revan has studied the ancients and that includes Exar Kun. He knows what he is saying.
When you will see the summary that I will make. Your views will soon change.
Last edited by S_W_LeGenD on Apr 27th, 2007 at 05:05 AM
Apr 26th, 2007 12:12 PM
